My question was just about John 10:30.i dont give much credence to what barclay had to say, nor any other unitarian for that matter.
here is what john calvin said about the Trinity; “ He dismissed as "an absurd fiction" (I:XIII:29) the scholastic teaching on the eternal generation of the Son. To him, the idea that the Father eternally generated the Son's divine essence was the wost kind of theological speculation. Instead, he proposed that "the Godhead is absolutely of itself [autotheos]. And hence also we hold that the Son, regarded as God, without reference to his person, is also of himself [autotheos]; though we also say that, regarded as Son, he is of the Father. Thus his essence is without beginning, while his person has its beginning in God". (I:XIII:25). The Son, in his divine essence is I AM, the self-existing God. He does not derive his deity from the Father. He is Son because he has a Father, but he is God because he is God.”
William Barclay on “The Father and I are one.”
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So why would anyone quote a false teacher unless they love false teachings?
Are you under the impression that everything a false teacher teaches is false?
“The facts should be more important than the scholar’s religious orientation.”
(Brad H. Young, Jesus The Jewish Theologian, p. 66.)
Yes. Christ and the Father are "ONE" not only in their total unity but also in their essence as God. Barclay did not want to admit that Jesus is God, so he worked around that by focusing on "unity". Very clever and very deceptive. Christ is "one" with the Father and the Holy Spirit within the Godhead: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7, KJB only)
All the modern bible versions have EXPUNGED this verse, and made a hash of that passage as a result. That is because there was a Unitarian on the Revision Committee of Church of England when Westcott & Hort decided to give the world a corrupt Greek text and a corrupted bible -- the Revised Version of 1881. Ever since all modern versions have followed suit.
It is just like poison. If a food or drink has only a microgram of poison, it is enough to kill the victim. So if a false teacher has only one false teaching, that is enough to reject him or her altogether.
Thanks. That’s one way of looking at it.
Many years ago I purchased a book online from an old Jewish bookseller in New York. When the book I purchased arrived in the mail I discovered a handwritten personalized note attached on the inside cover from the Jew. I still have it. The note reads:
“As with all sources that you read & study, I hope you will ‘eat the meat and spit out the bones’ when reading this book.
Shalom”
That seems like a very mature approach to me.
The title of the book - The Real Messiah? A Jewish Response to Missionaries, written by Aryeh Kaplan.
Before I retired I made a sign somewhat along that line of thinking and posted it in my classroom:
Read widely. Read deeply. Read thoughtfully. Read critically.
My theology students - trinitarian and non-trinitarian alike - seemed to appreciate it. Though I was never aware of it, I suppose there may have been some who didn’t, perhaps thinking it poisonous, and simply said nothing to me about it.
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Probably a tad Different than "drinking a liquid and UNable to spit out the poison," eh?
Another problem would be forcing "The Meat Of The Word" onto a Brand-New-born
babe In Christ...
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!
Bible Answer To Confusing church Bewilderment!
GRACE And Peace...
What is your opinion of C.S. Lewis? Do you consider him to be a good teacher or a false teacher?
C. S. Lewis held many heretical views. Here are some quotes from him to show his false beliefs. According to Lewis:
THE BIBLE IS NOT ALTOGETHER THE WORD OF GOD
“all Holy Scripture is in some sense – though not all parts of it in the same sense – the word of God.”
Lewis, Reflections on the Psalms, p. 19. “I have the deepest respect for Pagan myths, still more for myths in the Holy Scriptures” (The Problem of Pain, p.71)
THE BOOK OF JOB IS NOT SCRIPTURE
“The Book of Job appears to me unhistorical because it begins about a man quite unconnected with all history or even legend, with no genealogy, living in a country of which the Bible elsewhere has hardly anything to say…” (Reflections on the Psalms, pp. 110)
EVOLUTION IS TRUE
“… for we have good reason to believe that animals existed long before men… For long centuries God perfected the animal form which was to become the vehicle of humanity and the image of Himself … [Eventually,] God caused a new kind of consciousness to descend upon this organism” (The Problem of Pain, pp.133,77) “If … you mean simply that man is physically descended from animals, I have no objection” (The Problem of Pain, p.72)
PURGATORY IS REAL
If you die first, and if “prison visiting” is allowed, come down and look me up in Purgatory.
(W. H. Lewis, editor, Letters of C. S. Lewis, New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1966 [revised and enlarged Harvest edition edited by Walter Hooper, 1993], 509)
HELL IS A STATE OF MIND
“And every state of mind, left to itself, every shutting up of the creature within the dungeon of its own mind–is, in the end, Hell” [C. S. Lewis, The Great Divorce, (New York, Macmillian Publishing Company, 1960), p. 65.]
CHRIST HAD SOME CONNECTION TO PAGANISM AND JUDAISM
“as I believe, Christ, fulfills both Paganism and Judaism.” C.S. Lewis, Reflections On The Psalms, (New York, Mariner Books 1964), p. 129.
UNCONVERTED PEOPLE CAN BE REGARDED AS CHRISTIANS
“There are people in other religions who are being led by God’s secret influence to concentrate on those parts of their religion which are in agreement with Christianity, and who thus belong to Christ without knowing it... (Mere Christianity, pg. 176-177).
So you would say then that C.S. Lewis is a false teacher and should be rejected altogether.
Do you think he taught anything that is true?
I guess you don’t like Vine or Bernard either.
Do you really believe the Father and Jesus are one? The trinity doesn’t say that. It says they are individual. Now if the verse said the Father and I are God then you would have something. Except once again the poor holy ghost is left out. I have to tell you that if I was the holy ghost and was so left out of all these verses and discussions I would be unhappy.
Of course they are individuals. The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father. But they are both God therefore they are one in "essence". Hence there is perfect unity within the Godhead.
Jesus says that he and the Father are one. What he doesn’t say is that he and the Father are one as trinitarianism would centuries later say they are one.
Jesus is a Jew, not a trinitarian. He is one with his God.
If he did, then hold on to it. To throw away truth, no matter who teaches it, is foolishness.
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I agree that Jesus is in complete unity with his Father. God the Father is his head and he always did the will of his Father.
And why is the holy spirit not included?
Some are trying to make the complete unity within the Godhead as a substitute for the reality that the Son is as much God as the Father. "He thought it not robbery to be equal with God" because Christ is fully God Himself. And the Father insists that that is so.
The issue is generally not about the deity of the Holy Spirit (capitalized) but the deity of Christ. Everyone agrees that the Father is God. But not everyone agrees the Jesus is also God. The Father is YHWH and the Son is also YHWH. This is called "The mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Jesus Christ" (Col 2:2).
The Shield of the Trinity.
A famous diagram dating from the 12th / 13th century C.E. depicting the God of trinitarianism - not the God of the Jews, not the God of Jesus.
Trinitarianism isn’t more authoritative than Jesus. Jesus is more authoritative than trinitarianism.
The God of trinitarianism isn’t the God of Jesus. The God of Jesus isn’t the God of trinitarianism.
Trinitarianism says there is no God besides the God of trinitarianism. Jesus says there is no God besides his.
Trinitarianism affirms scripture backs up its assertion. I believe scripture backs up Jesus’ assertion.
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