Women In Leadership In the Church?

[jiggyfly]

It is a true saying that if someone wants to be an elder, [fn] he desires an honorable responsibility........ He must manage his own family well, with children who respect and obey him. For if a man cannot manage his own household, how can he take care of God's church?

The elder must already be ruling their own family well which brings us to the question " who is responsible for governing the family"?

On another note, disregarding sex, seems most in the leadership positions today should not be there do to their lack in ruling their house well and it shows. Adultery, divorce, children on drugs, teenage pregnancies, etc.......

 

[Selene]

It's not worth arguing about or spending any more time on. If you don't want to listen to a female preacher, don't listen. If I choose to listen to a female preach I will.

Hello tomwebster,

I don't have a problem listening to a female preacher for I'm sure that God can speak through men and women. Any woman can speak Truth coming from God, and she does not need to be a preacher to do it. Jesus did not pick any female to be His Apostle. All the bishops, priests, and deacons were men. And this is what we need to follow.....God's will, not our own will. Men and women have their roles in which God created them for.

 

[tomwebster]

Hello tomwebster,

I don't have a problem listening to a female preacher for I'm sure that God can speak through men and women. Any woman can speak Truth coming from God, and she does not need to be a preacher to do it. Jesus did not pick any female to be His Apostle. All the bishops, priests, and deacons were men. And this is what we need to follow.....God's will, not our own will. Men and women have their roles in which God created them for.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You need to separate the rules from the Administration of the Law from the Administration of Grace. In grace "there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

 

[Selene]

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You need to separate the rules from the Administration of the Law from the Administration of Grace. In grace "there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

I agree. We are all equal. Adam even said to Eve, "you are bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh." We are equal as human beings, but God also created us different. The body of Christ has many different parts despite that all are one body. Jesus did not choose any female to become His Apostles, and all the bishops, priests, and deacons in the Bible were all men, and this is God's will.

 

[revturmoil]

Im sorry you feel so heated but you need to live by your quote! I have asked God about this issue and he has confirmed it to me. My pastor teaches all the scripture! Paul was speaking to the church in Corinth for the women who were speaking out of turn and using the pagan acts with in the church! The women at this time they had just learned the word of God and were teaching falsely now they do know the word of God in more depth and can serve as leaders. God calls who he wants to call man just needs to subject themselves to his will. They are preaching and teaching Jesus Christ crucified and resurrected souls are being saved through the preaching of the women today. God is blessing their ministries through the word of God! Jesus said if you lift me up i will draw all men to me. If Jesus did not want women to serve in leadership he would have said so! If feel that the women who lead are doing God's will, He called them to ministry!

I put a short study on this a few post back and the scriptural evidence is overwhelming that women can serve today. They' were instrumental in influencing the lives of many during that time and esp. Paul. Women had churches in their home and were held in high esteem by Paul. Best of all they were servants and the word servant is the same word for deacon and minister so that nails it for me. They are equals in God's service as they are given all the same gifts as men. People need to keep in mind that some truths in the bible aren't universal. We have to consider them in the setting, the culture and the people. etc. This is a classic example of that.

The Corinthian's had about 15 problems that Paul addressed. One of them was tongues. That's could be another reason Paul said that.

 

[calbhach]

The way I see it is pretty simple; all people are called to teach the Gospel, male and female alike, whether it's in the pulpit, on the street, in our own homes, online...

At this point in time, if men and women can both be good teachers of the Word, telling the Truth and giving people hope in Jesus Christ...that's what this world needs right now. Anyone and everyone who will preach, witness, be missionaries. It's all really the same thing. One's just directly in a church, and the others aren't. It's all teaching. If we aren't giving our all to bring people to Christ, outside or within the church, we aren't doing our jobs as Christians.

In fact, one could say that instead of arguing over who should be head of the church, man or woman, we should really focus on what we can do for God next, and keep moving forward in Him. ^^

 

[Selene]

I put a short study on this a few post back and the scriptural evidence is overwhelming that women can serve today. They' were instrumental in influencing the lives of many during that time and esp. Paul. Women had churches in their home and were held in high esteem by Paul. Best of all they were servants and the word servant is the same word for deacon and minister so that nails it for me. They are equals in God's service as they are given all the same gifts as men. People need to keep in mind that some truths in the bible aren't universal. We have to consider them in the setting, the culture and the people. etc. This is a classic example of that.

The Corinthian's had about 15 problems that Paul addressed. One of them was tongues. That's could be another reason Paul said that.

Hello Kaoticprofit,

The words "servant", "minister", and "deacon" are not used in the same way. In Phebe's case, she is the servant (diakonos) of the Church. The Bible used the English word "servant" to describe Phebe's position in the Church. Other Bibles even use the word "minister." But she was never a deacon. The office of deacon is reserved only for men. The word "deacon" appears only three times in the New Testament (Ph. 1:1, 1 Ti. 3:8, and 1 Ti. 3:12). Where the word "Deacon" appeared, it shows that only men held this office. The word "servant" appears 8 times and the word "minister" appears 20 times in the New Testament. Upon reading those verses, the words servant and minister can apply to either male or female. Therefore, a female can be a minister of the Church, but she cannot take the office of a deacon.

Likewise, I am a Minister of the Word. I am also being trained as a Catechist so that I can teach God's word, but I cannot take the office of bishop, priest, or deacon.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[jiggyfly]

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You need to separate the rules from the Administration of the Law from the Administration of Grace. In grace "there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Taking this out of context and misapplying it in this fashion would indicate that same sex relationships are ok. This scripture is addressing unbiased grace.

 

[tomwebster]

Taking this out of context and misapplying it in this fashion would indicate that same sex relationships are ok. This scripture is addressing unbiased grace.

Only if one thinks it is ok to sin in grace. Adultery is still sin during the administration of grace and if you study Paul’s writing you know that that is not true.

 

[revturmoil]

Hello Kaoticprofit,

The words "servant", "minister", and "deacon" are not used in the same way. In Phebe's case, she is the servant (diakonos) of the Church. The Bible used the English word "servant" to describe Phebe's position in the Church. Other Bibles even use the word "minister." But she was never a deacon. The office of deacon is reserved only for men. The word "deacon" appears only three times in the New Testament (Ph. 1:1, 1 Ti. 3:8, and 1 Ti. 3:12). Where the word "Deacon" appeared, it shows that only men held this office. The word "servant" appears 8 times and the word "minister" appears 20 times in the New Testament. Upon reading those verses, the words servant and minister can apply to either male or female. Therefore, a female can be a minister of the Church, but she cannot take the office of a deacon.

Likewise, I am a Minister of the Word. I am also being trained as a Catechist so that I can teach God's word, but I cannot take the office of bishop, priest, or deacon.

In Christ,
Selene

I understand that. I did put in my original post that servant was one word for minister and deacon. But the point is this. You have to look at the context and setting. The Corinthian church was mostly Jews in a paganistic culture. The Jews already had an even lower view of women. You couldn't talk to a woman on the street and teaching the law to women was considered casting pearls before swine. We have to consider all of this in Paul's teaching.​

I think this is why certain limitations are placed on the women at Corinth.

Women usually make up more than half the congregation in todays churches. So I see it as a plus. And I think there are different roles for men and women anyway.

This was the bible in it's infancy and in today's world those limitations are gone.

 

[jiggyfly]

Only if one thinks it is ok to sin in grace. Adultery is still sin during the administration of grace and if you study Paul’s writing you know that that is not true.

Paul said in his letter to Timothy that an elder must rule his own family well. Who is to rule the family, momma?
Oh wait, I forgot a family can now have two moms or two dads since there is no more recognition of the genders in the body of Christ.

Just more flawed reasoning Tom.

 

[revturmoil]

Paul said in his letter to Timothy that an elder must rule his own family well. Who is to rule the family, momma?
Oh wait, I forgot a family can now have two moms or two dads since there is no more recognition of the genders in the body of Christ.

Just more flawed reasoning Tom.

Momma actually has more responsibility. The dad had more authority and was the spiritual advisor. Jewish culture was that the dad taught the mom. The mom was in charge of raising and teaching children and a typical domestic engineer and I bet a lot of dads liked it.

 

[religusnut]

SO if you are in a Church and a woman preaches and you repent and accept Jesus as you Saviour then are you saved?

If NOT does that mean that you can't be saved with a woman preacher?

If you are saved then would it be better to have a woman preaching than nobody preaching. I mean how can they hear without a preacher?......

 

[tomwebster]

SO if you are in a Church and a woman preaches and you repent and accept Jesus as you Saviour then are you saved?

If NOT does that mean that you can't be saved with a woman preacher?

If you are saved then would it be better to have a woman preaching than nobody preaching. I mean how can they hear without a preacher?......

Well, it doesn’t really matter because according to some here, everyone is going to be saved anyway. So, just sit back and relax.

 

[jiggyfly]

SO if you are in a Church and a woman preaches and you repent and accept Jesus as you Saviour then are you saved?

If NOT does that mean that you can't be saved with a woman preacher?

If you are saved then would it be better to have a woman preaching than nobody preaching. I mean how can they hear without a preacher?......

Does the preacher save anyone?

Well, it doesn’t really matter because according to some here, everyone is going to be saved anyway. So, just sit back and relax.

Good one Tom

 

[Selene]

I understand that. I did put in my original post that servant was one word for minister and deacon. But the point is this. You have to look at the context and setting. The Corinthian church was mostly Jews in a paganistic culture. The Jews already had an even lower view of women. You couldn't talk to a woman on the street and teaching the law to women was considered casting pearls before swine. We have to consider all of this in Paul's teaching.​

I think this is why certain limitations are placed on the women at Corinth.

Women usually make up more than half the congregation in todays churches. So I see it as a plus. And I think there are different roles for men and women anyway.

This was the bible in it's infancy and in today's world those limitations are gone.

Hello Kaoticprofit,

It is not the Jews that should be followed, and it is not the world that we should follow. It is Christ that should be followed. Christ made His choice when He chose His Apostles. None of the Apostles were women, and Christ is not sexist. There were other roles that God had in mind for women. For example, women played a key role in the spreading of the Gospel, being the first to spread the news of the risen Christ. They were also allowed to pray and prophecy in Church (1 Cor. 11:1–16), but they could not teach or have authority over a man (1 Tim. 2:12). Women do play an active role in the Church and that in the age of the Fathers, there were orders of virgins, widows, and deaconesses, but these women were not ordained. The ordination of women was rejected not because it was incompatible with Christian culture, but because it was incompatible with Christian faith.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[tomwebster]

Hello Kaoticprofit,

It is not the Jews that should be followed, and it is not the world that we should follow. It is Christ that should be followed. Christ made His choice when He chose His Apostles. None of the Apostles were women, and Christ is not sexist. There were other roles that God had in mind for women. For example, women played a key role in the spreading of the Gospel, being the first to spread the news of the risen Christ. They were also allowed to pray and prophecy in Church (1 Cor. 11:1–16), but they could not teach or have authority over a man (1 Tim. 2:12). Women do play an active role in the Church and that in the age of the Fathers, there were orders of virgins, widows, and deaconesses, but these women were not ordained. The ordination of women was rejected not because it was incompatible with Christian culture, but because it was incompatible with Christian faith.

In Christ,
Selene

We will not agree on this topic, you are mixing Dispensations and that is not “rightly dividing the Word.”

 

[australia]

Any woman can speak Truth coming from God, and she does not need to be a preacher to do it.

And this is what we need to follow.....God's will, not our own will.

Good idea, follow God's will;

Exo 15:20 And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.

Jdg 4:4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.

2Ki 22:14 So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asahiah, went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college and they communed with her.

Neh 6:14 My God, think thou upon Tobiah and Sanballat according to these their works, and on the prophetess Noadiah, and the rest of the prophets, that would have put me in fear.

Luk 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;

Neh 6:7 And thou hast also appointed prophets to preach of thee at Jerusalem, saying, There is a king in Judah: and now shall it be reported to the king according to these words. Come now therefore, and let us take counsel together.

 

[Selene]

We will not agree on this topic, you are mixing Dispensations and that is not “rightly dividing the Word.”

My brother, I am not mixing anything. It is true that Christ picked all men to be His Apostles, and Chirst is God. God is not a sexist. This is His will, and this is what we need to follow. We are not supposed to follow the modern world or even our own will. A lot of times we think we know what is right according to the modern world. And when one follows the modern world because it seems right, it only brings about a lot of confusion.

 

[tomwebster]

My brother, I am not mixing anything. It is true that Christ picked all men to be His Apostles, and Chirst is God. God is not a sexist. This is His will, and this is what we need to follow. We are not supposed to follow the modern world or even our own will. A lot of times we think we know what is right according to the modern world. And when one follows the modern world because it seems right, it only brings about a lot of confusion.

Sorry, you do not understand what I am talking about, never mind!