Would you have done the same thing if you knew that your govt was violating the privacy of millions

[Angelina]

Edward Snowden: Who is he, and what kind of life is he leaving behind?
By Jennifer Skalka Tulumello, Correspondent / June 11, 2013
Edward Snowden, who leaked the information on the NSA's monitoring program, was a well-paid analyst for a consulting firm with a girlfriend and a home in 'paradise' (Oahu). All gone now.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/Decoder-Wire/2013/0611/Edward-Snowden-Who-is-he-and-what-kind-of-life-is-he-leaving-behind?nav=93-csm_category-editorsPicks

The question being posed by media sources is whether he is a "Whistle-blower or a Traitor" Any thoughts?

 

[Apocalypticist]

The content of the release was to expose that there are massive violations being committed against the rights of the people, the government is abusing its power and there is no accountability. He did the right thing to release the information. If the government believes that there is a convincing need to engage in these operations then a corollary that follows rather easily from this is that there should be full disclosure to the people as to what the programs are and what they entail and there needs to be debate as to who is accountable for these programs, who do they answer to, and the electorate should hold their representatives accountable if they feel they committed impropriety in this matter.

This is an administration that came in saying they would be the most transparent administration in American history. Just the contrary... To hide this sort of all-encompassing surveillance I suspect is not in the interest of national security but in the interest of saving the hides of those who KNOW if it were exposed then the voters WOULD hold them accountable. Its a hand in the cookie jar and there is no compelling reason for holding back the information.

One of the programs being used would be Echelon. Echelon I believe actually records every phone call made in the country and stores this information for a period of months before it's deleted. It serves by identifying particular words used in a conversation that would flag a conversation as being one that needs closer scrutiny. You could speculate that if there are, for example, three flags in a conversation it will be listened and analyzed. A person may be tapped if there is a high enough level of suspicious-ness.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

The content of the release was to expose that there are massive violations being committed against the rights of the people, the government is abusing its power and there is no accountability. He did the right thing to release the information. If the government believes that there is a convincing need to engage in these operations then a corollary that follows rather easily from this is that there should be full disclosure to the people as to what the programs are and what they entail and there needs to be debate as to who is accountable for these programs, who do they answer to, and the electorate should hold their representatives accountable if they feel they committed impropriety in this matter.

This is an administration that came in saying they would be the most transparent administration in American history. Just the contrary... To hide this sort of all-encompassing surveillance I suspect is not in the interest of national security but in the interest of saving the hides of those who KNOW if it were exposed then the voters WOULD hold them accountable. Its a hand in the cookie jar and there is no compelling reason for holding back the information.

One of the programs being used would be Echelon. Echelon I believe actually records every phone call made in the country and stores this information for a period of months before it's deleted. It serves by identifying particular words used in a conversation that would flag a conversation as being one that needs closer scrutiny. You could speculate that if there are, for example, three flags in a conversation it will be listened and analyzed. A person may be tapped if there is a high enough level of suspicious-ness.

If this be the ONLY reason for such monitoring and flagging, then rightly so.

 

[John S]

Mr. Snowden is both a whistleblower and a traitor - but I don't yet know which one is worse. He DID break the law, so he will go to jail if he ever returns to the U.S. It did take alot of courage to do what he did and then admit it to the world what he did.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

.

The people in Hitler's inner circle who tried to kill him early in the war were called traitors too.

 

[Pelaides]

We had better get used to this sort of thing,The new world order has little use for the constitution or our freedom.Next they will probally confiscate our guns,and then declare marshall law.Theirs a new sheriff in town and his name isnt democracy.

 

[Angelina]

He may be a whistle-blower but I do not think that he is a traitor. He is only a traitor in the eyes of the govt but I cannot see how he has been traitorous toward the American public at large....JMHO

More Than 50,000 Sign Petition to Pardon Whistleblower Edward Snowden as Hero But Not Everyone Agrees
http://www.christianpost.com/news/more-than-50000-sign-petition-to-pardon-whistleblower-edward-snowden-as-hero-but-not-everyone-agrees-97780/

Interesting Headline from CP. The point is that not everyone has agreed because there are more than 50,000 people in the country?

 

[aspen]

sad : I

 

[Angelina]

Tis...

 

[Apocalypticist]

Top National Security Experts: Spying Program Doesn’t Make Us Safer, and Spying Leaks Don’t Harm America
among the many quotes of significance...

The former head of the NSA’s global digital data gathering program, William Binney:

• Confirms Snowden’s allegations about the mass surveillance program

• Says that revealing the details of the spying program will not harm national security … and that government officials are only mad because it exposes their overreaching

• Says that massive surveillance doesn’t work to make us safer

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-06-13/top-national-security-experts-spying-program-doesn%E2%80%99t-make-us-safer-and-spying

Let me say for the record... The rhetoric of the politicians lately on the Snowden case and others indicates to me that we live under openly tyrannical rule. When the state of Pennsylvania threatens its citizens just prior to tax day saying, "We know where you live," defense officials are caught on tape joking about assassinating US citizens like Snowden for instance, or the president makes threats against the governor of Texas it shows that we no longer live in a democratic society any more or one where our representatives even hold rightful rule over us. It is open tyranny now.

Christians, take down your flags. No more recitals of Lee Greenwood's God Bless the USA, take down the flag outside your church, sing no more O beautiful for spacious skies, this nation has invoked the full wrath of God. Let her die and don't mourn. Move on. It's over.

 

[John S]

Angelina - Because I was curious, I spent a little bit of time on an atheist site a while ago. What I discovered was that the people there had the same mindset. For example, a thread would state
"Christians are stupid" - and the responses would be
1. I agree
2. I agree
3. I agree
End of thread.

Sadly, I see the same mindset here, regarding American politics.
"The President/government is evil
1. I agree
2. I agree
3. I agree
End of thread

It may or may not not be the fault of the people, like yourself, who run this site but that has been the result.


Apocaypticist - Your church has NO business flying the American flag - inside or outside the church - just as the government has NO business promoting religion in its affairs.

 

[Angelina]

Hi John S,
I am not from your country, that is why I thought that this was an interesting topic. I am hoping for someone to think outside the square. Prism may be used for security reasons but Mr Snowden has confirmed that Prism exists as a matter of public interest. No one is above the law but breaches like this should actually cancel each other out. JMHO

 

[biggandyy]

Every Baptist church I've attended has flown the American Admiralty Flag out of respect for the nation in which we live.

Besides, there is no such thing as a "Christian Flag", it is the same invention as the American flag, a banner with which to rally under. In fact, when I was worship leader at my former congregation, before the service began, I led those gathered in the Pledge of Allegiance to the American Flag.

 

[Apocalypticist]

That is an abomination to bring that into the church. You all should have been beat with whips and drive out, the biblical way of handling apostates like that.

 

[James Forthwright]

Forthwright's two cents: I heartily applaud Mr. Snowden's declarations of the U.S. government's intrusion into our personal lives. To jeopardize his idyllic lifestyle in Hawaii to divulge such information demonstrates an incredibly high degree of moral conviction and principle. However, all he did was 'let the cat out of the bag' on something that deep down we knew was already taking place. There was no specific security information that was breached that would threaten national security nor was anyone's personal communications or security agents names divulged. It only might give utter buffoons a better glimpse of their situation.

It reminds me of the over-used movie cliche script where the wily kidnapper foils the efforts of the police to track his ransom phone calls because the oh-so-clever criminal "hung up the phone just before the required time of 60 seconds" had elapsed so the call couldn't be traced. Of course, this was all Hollywood malarkey that most anyone with a iota of technical experience would know was NOT the truth (phone calls can be traced within milli-seconds) yet this same hackneyed scene was used in movies for over fifty years.

The one puzzling aspect I have is, why Edward Snowden would pick Hong Kong, China as a place of refuge. China has a historically deplorable reputation of human rights violations as well as restricting Internet freedom for its citizens? One would think that Snowden would have done some homework in locating a country without extradition treaties with the United States of America? Hopefully Russia, Iran or some such country will offer him asylum before Obama, Feinstein or Boehner can get him in their pernicious clutches.

 

[biggandyy]

That is an abomination to bring that into the church. You all should have been beat with whips and drive out, the biblical way of handling apostates like that.

If you think you are man enough come and do it.

 

[Pelaides]

If you think you are man enough come and do it.

Why do you pick fights with people,and then threaten to suspend them when they fight back?

 

[Angelina]

Pelaides, your remark is unfounded. Please read the post again. Moderators have a right to voice an opinion along with all members here. Rules that govern this community have been created for our protection and safety, while on-line. Rude and inflammatory posts, harassment or verbally attacking another member will not be tolerated.

 

[Apocalypticist]

If you think you are man enough come and do it.

Ooh you're so tough. What state are you in because I am in Texas. You probably feel real safe because we are so geographically separated. If I was in your church, you would back down old man. You wouldn't last five seconds in my ring, just my stare and you would need to cry to the police department to settle your fight for you.

Pelaides, your remark is unfounded. Please read the post again. Moderators have a right to voice an opinion along with all members here. Rules that govern this community have been created for our protection and safety, while on-line. Rude and inflammatory posts, harassment or verbally attacking another member will not be tolerated.

Angelina, let's be fair here, though you won't be because you're a moderator here and you're job is to defend the party line, not what's right. Your little boy here, I don't remember his name likes to peak big words and threats to members of this forum. Who again is in the wrong here, though you lecture us about what will not be tolerated? Let's be fair. If there was fairness here, it would be Andyy who would not be tolerated. Good day, woman.

 

[Angelina]

Please read the forum rules if you have an issue with how they are administered. You are welcome to PM the Admin. I do not think that you are being very fair to one of our mods Apoc and I resent your tone when addressing me as "woman." :huh:

Good day to you sir!