You have to walk perfect in heaven

[BlessedPeace]

I don't know, but I see it as God holding onto our Karma, and then giving it back to us when He desires:

Deuteronomy 32:39 “See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.”

We will not have our same bodies in heaven, I proved that thru scripture, we are corruptable as pointed out by Paul and incapable of heaven without being changed.

You're right there are false teachers, and I see a lot of people following them all.

How are you defining karma?

 

[Debp]

Jesus was created wit the Holy Spirit.

Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary. However, He is not created but has always been .

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
John 1:1-4

 

[Stumpmaster]

Well if we really consider Jesus the perfect sacrifice and the spotless lamb, then why did he have to be perfect. Was it because God required it or was there some natural law of physics that he was avoiding.

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit all have power over the laws of physics, as communicated to us in Scripture, and in the lives of those whose testimonies bear witness to this.

The Sending Of Christ:

While Jesus experienced first hand what it was to be human, and didn't allow His humanity to derail His Mission, it was always because of His eternal sinlessness that God sent Him to save us from our sins.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

1Pe 1:18-20 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life you inherited from your forefathers, (19) but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or spot. (20) He was known before the foundation of the world, but was revealed in the last times for your sake.

 

[MA2444]

The identity of,as, robotic is wholly dissimilar to what God has said.


John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

As long as man remains their natural mind they cannot choose Christ. As God told us.
All God teaches in within the context of his Sovereign divine will and plan. Keep that in mind and the word comes together as Holy Spirit leads us to proper understanding.


For those who live according to the flesh have their outlook shaped by[a] the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit have their outlook shaped by the things of the Spirit. 6 For the outlook[b] of the flesh is death, but the outlook of the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the outlook of the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to the law of God, nor is it able to do so. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

1. 1 Corinthians 2:14 tn Grk “natural person.” Cf. BDAG 1100 s.v. ψυχικός a, “an unspiritual pers., one who merely functions bodily, without being touched by the Spirit of God.”

The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.

Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.

Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.

And all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

You said that man does not have a free will. Choose this day who you will serve? Without free will we can not choose, God did that for us already so it would invalidate Christianity. I know and that can not be. So you have to be wrong. Mankind has all sorts of free will. Choose wisely.

I cant believe you said we have no will to choose. That is not so.

 

[Webers_Home]

Jesus . . . . He is not created but has always been

Christ's genealogy is relatively unimportant to the average Gentile, whereas
very important to Jews because only David's biological posterity qualifies to
ascend his throne and govern the people of Israel.

● Ps 132:11 . .The Lord has sworn in truth unto David; and He will not turn
from it: "Of the fruit of your body will I set upon your throne"

The New Testament verifies Christ's biological association with David.

● Acts 2:29-30 . . Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the
patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us
unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn
with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he
would raise up Christ to sit on his throne.

● Rom 1:3 . . . His son; descended from David according to the flesh

FAQ: Jesus is alleged to have been miraculously conceived (Luke 1:27-35)
How then did he in any way at all descend from David's loins, i.e. David's
flesh?

REPLY: Mary wasn't Jesus' surrogate mother, viz: he wasn't implanted in her
womb, rather, he was conceived in her womb. Seeing as how Joseph wasn't
Jesus' biological father, then conception by means of his mom's flesh became
the default path to David's flesh. Although women are rare in Bible genealogies,
they still matter. For example Rahab, Ruth, and Bathsheba. (Matt 1:5-6)

Anyway; if true that Christ is David's biological descendant, and if true that
David was Adam's biological descendant, then it must be true that Christ,
along with David, is also Adam's biological descendant. So then if Adam was
a created being, then his biological descendants Christ and David are also
created beings.

It is right here at this very point where Jehovah's Witnesses have rank and file
Christians at a disadvantage due to the fact that quite a few pew warmers are
unable to discern the difference between the Word of John 1:1-3 and the flesh
that the Word became at John 1:14, to wit: the Word is an eternal spirit being
whereas the Word's flesh is a temporal material being whose human origin
can be easily traced to the very dust with which his ancestor Adam was
constructed.
_

 

[dev553344]

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit all have power over the laws of physics, as communicated to us in Scripture, and in the lives of those whose testimonies bear witness to this.

The Sending Of Christ:

While Jesus experienced first hand what it was to be human, and didn't allow His humanity to derail His Mission, it was always because of His eternal sinlessness that God sent Him to save us from our sins.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

1Pe 1:18-20 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life you inherited from your forefathers, (19) but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or spot. (20) He was known before the foundation of the world, but was revealed in the last times for your sake.

I believe God works thru physical means and spiritual means and enforces his power upon them though. He does not alter physics to my knowledge. Perhaps he could alter physics, but does not. The old testament confirms that darkness was upon the face of the deep. Something God used that was here to create the universe.

 

[Lambano]

As long as man remains their natural mind they cannot choose Christ.

That was always one of my points of contention with the Calvinists. How do we choose to trust ANYBODY*? And if we do have the capability trust somebody else, our spouses, our friends, our bosses, our political leaders, then why can't we trust Jesus?

(*If you want to get into a Bible vs. Bible war, John 6:44 gets offset by John 12:32.)

And then we make our primary evangelistic pitch, "Choose Jesus or you're going to be tortured with fire forever and ever and ever!" Good grief, people, could there be ANY pitch that appeals to the natural, fleshly mind more than self-preservation and avoidance of pain?

 

[dev553344]

I posted a spin off of this thread for clarification of how we can be sinless and walk perfect in heaven. It is here: The God is our Righteousness

 

[Phil .]

I studied the bible and found a Karma principle that I see. That your sins come back and kill you. So that we must after being forgiven and resurrected walk perfect in heaven.

Ideas?

This, now, the present, is heavon.
You’ve never been anywhere else, or in any other time.
There has never been an experience other than, this, now, the present, heavon.

 

[BlessedPeace]

That was always one of my points of contention with the Calvinists. How do we choose to trust ANYBODY*? And if we do have the capability trust somebody else, our spouses, our friends, our bosses, our political leaders, then why can't we trust Jesus?

(*If you want to get into a Bible vs. Bible war, John 6:44 gets offset by John 12:32.)

And then we make our primary evangelistic pitch, "Choose Jesus or you're going to be tortured with fire forever and ever and ever!" Good grief, people, could there be ANY pitch that appeals to the natural, fleshly mind more than self-preservation and avoidance of pain?

Yes,what did Jesus know? How dare he think we communicate with other people because the natural mind is relatable?
While God's mind is far removed. And entering that consciousness,by anointing of Holy Spirit God, we are then able to know the teachings of God given us from that plane.


Yeah,what would Jesus know about that. Yeshuah, that silly Calvinist.

 

[Stumpmaster]

I believe God works thru physical means and spiritual means and enforces his power upon them though. He does not alter physics to my knowledge. Perhaps he could alter physics, but does not. The old testament confirms that darkness was upon the face of the deep. Something God used that was here to create the universe.

Certainly! Here’s a compilation of miracles recorded in both the Old Testament and the New Testament:

Old Testament Miracles​

1. Creation: Genesis 1:1-27
2. Enoch’s Translation: Genesis 5:24 (also mentioned in Hebrews 11:5)
3. The Worldwide Flood: Genesis 7 and 8
4. Confusion of Languages at Babel: Genesis 11:1-9
5. Sodomites Blinded: Genesis 19:11
6. Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah: Genesis 19:24-25
7. Lot’s Wife Turned into a Pillar of Salt: Genesis 19:26
8. Isaac Conceived by Abraham and Sarah: Genesis 21:1-7
9. Burning Bush: Exodus 3:1-4
10. Moses’ Rod Changed into a Serpent: Exodus 4:3-4, 30
11. Ten Plagues of Egypt (including turning the river into blood, frogs, gnats, flies, disease on livestock, boils, hail, locusts, darkness, and the firstborn destroyed): Exodus 7-12
12. Pillar of Cloud and Fire: Guided the Israelites during the Exodus – Exodus 13:21–22
13. Crossing of the Red Sea: Exodus 14:21–31
14. Bitter Waters Sweetened: Exodus 15:23-25
15. Manna Sent: Exodus 16:14-35
16. Water from the Rock in Rephidim: Exodus 17:5-8
17. Defeat of Amalek: Exodus 17:9-13
18. Fire on Aaron’s Sacrifice: Leviticus 9:24
19. Nadab and Abihu Destroyed: Leviticus 10:1-2
20. Israel’s Judgment by Fire: Numbers 11:1-3
21. Miriam’s Leprosy: Numbers 12:10-15
22. Earth Opens and Swallows Korah and Company: Numbers 16:32-34
23. Brazen Serpent Heals Bitten Israelites: Numbers 21:5-9
24. Balaam’s Donkey Speaks: Numbers 22:21-35
25. Jordan River Supernaturally Divided: Joshua 3:14-17
26. Fall of Jericho: Joshua 6:6-20
27. Sun and Moon Stand Still: Joshua 10:12-14
28. And many more throughout the Old Testament.

New Testament Miracles​

1. Virgin Birth of Jesus: Matthew 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-38
2. Turning Water into Wine at Cana: John 2:1-11
3. Healing the Sick, Raising the Dead, and Casting Out Demons: Numerous instances in the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John)
4. Feeding the Multitudes: Matthew 14:15-21; Mark 6:35-44; Luke 9:12-17; John 6:5-14
5. Walking on Water: Matthew 14:22-33; Mark 6:45-52; John 6:16-21
6. Resurrection of Lazarus: John 11:1-44
7. Ascension of Jesus: Acts 1:1-11
8. Outpouring of the Holy Spirit: Acts 2:1-14
9. Healing of the Lame and Blind: Acts and the Gospels
10. Resurrection of Christ: Matthew 28; Mark 16; Luke 24; John 20; 1 Corinthians 15

These miracles serve as powerful demonstrations of God’s intervention, compassion, and authority. Each one carries a profound message and purpose.

More to come . . .

 

[Stumpmaster]

I believe God works thru physical means and spiritual means and enforces his power upon them though. He does not alter physics to my knowledge. Perhaps he could alter physics, but does not. The old testament confirms that darkness was upon the face of the deep. Something God used that was here to create the universe.

Certainly! The Book of Acts is rich with miraculous events that demonstrate God’s power, authenticate the apostles’ ministry, and draw people to Him. Let’s explore some of these remarkable occurrences:

Specific Miracles in Acts​

1. Sound of Rushing Wind: On the day of Pentecost, the disciples experienced a sound like rushing wind, followed by the ability to speak in various languages 1.
2. Tongues of Fire: Flames appeared above the heads of the disciples during the same Pentecost event 1.
3. Lame Man Healed: Peter and John healed a lame man at the temple gate, allowing him to walk 1.
4. Building Shaken: After prayer, the place where the believers gathered shook 1.
5. Sudden Death of Ananias and Sapphira: Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead for lying to the Holy Spirit 1.
6. Imprisoned Apostles Freed by an Angel: An angel miraculously released Peter and other apostles from prison 1.
7. Philip Transported from Desert to Azotus: Philip was supernaturally transported to another location 1.
8. Light and Voice at Saul’s Conversion: Saul (later known as Paul) encountered a blinding light and heard Jesus’ voice on the road to Damascus 1.
9. Aeneas Healed of Paralysis: Peter healed a paralyzed man named Aeneas 1.
10. Dorcas Restored to Life: Peter raised Dorcas (Tabitha) from the dead 1.
11. Herod’s Violent Death: Herod Agrippa I was struck down by an angel and died 1.
12. Elymas the Sorcerer Blinded: Paul confronted a sorcerer named Elymas and temporarily blinded him 1.
13. Cripple at Lystra Healed: Paul healed a man who had been lame from birth 1.
14. Demons Cast Out of a Slave Girl: Paul expelled an evil spirit from a slave girl 1.
15. Paul Freed from Prison by Earthquake: An earthquake opened the prison doors, freeing Paul and Silas 1.
16. Eutychus Raised from Death: Paul revived a young man who fell from a window during a sermon 1.
17. Paul Unaffected by Viper’s Bite: A venomous snake bit Paul, but he suffered no harm 1.
18. Father of Publius Healed: Paul healed Publius’ father on the island of Malta 1.

Clusters of Miracles​

1. “Many Wonders and Signs”: The early believers witnessed numerous signs and wonders 1.
2. “The Shadow of Peter”: Some were healed by Peter’s shadow, and a multitude experienced healing 1.
3. “Stephen Did Great Wonders and Signs”: Stephen, a faithful disciple, performed miracles 1.
4. “The Multitudes Heeded… Hearing and Seeing the Miracles”: Philip’s ministry drew people through signs and wonders 1.
5. “Signs and Wonders Done by Their Hands”: The apostles continued to perform miracles 1.
6. “Barnabas and Paul Declared How Many Miracles and Wonders”: God worked through them 1.
7. “God Worked Unusual Miracles by the Hands of Paul”: Even handkerchiefs carried healing power 1.
8. “The Rest on the Island Who Had Diseases Were Healed”: Paul’s ministry extended to the sick 1.

A Balanced Perspective​

While miracles were frequent in Acts, not every believer experienced them in every situation. God allowed suffering and persecution for His purposes, as seen in the lives of Peter, John, Stephen, and James 1. Miracles served specific purposes and were not automatic responses to every problem. They confirmed God’s presence, authenticated the apostles’ message, and drew people to faith.
These miraculous events remind us of God’s sovereignty and His desire to reveal Himself to humanity.

 

[Debp]

I posted a spin off of this thread for clarification of how we can be sinless and walk perfect in heaven. It is here: The God is our Righteousness

We will be changed so that is why we will need no effort on our own to walk perfectly in Heaven.

 

[Webers_Home]

~

We will be changed so that is why we will need no effort on our own to walk perfectly in
Heaven.

● Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots?
Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

When I was a young guy coming of age, it occurred to me that it would be
the cat's meow if I were as naturally pleasing to God as His son Jesus always
is, because then it would be very easy to attain to Heaven, and to stay in
Heaven, without fear of being kicked out:

"He that sent me is with me: the Father has not left me alone; for I do
always those things that please Him." (John 8:29)

I was very surprised, and excited, upon discovering that something very
similar to the very thing I wished for is contained in a promise that God
made to Moses' people.

● Ezek 36:24-27 . . I will gather you up from all the nations and bring you
home again to your land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you
will be clean. Your filth will be washed away, and you will no longer worship
idols. And I will give you a new heart with new and right desires, and I will
put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony heart of sin and give you a
new, obedient heart. And I will put My spirit in you so you will obey My laws
and do whatever I command.

That benefit was originally intended for the Jews but anon became available
to Gentiles too.

● Isa 49:5-6 . . And now The Lord says-- he who formed me in the womb to
be his servant to bring Jacob back to him and gather Israel to himself, for I
am honored in the eyes of The Lord and my God has been my strength --He
says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of
Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light
for the Gentiles, that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

And sure enough, the benefit is reiterated in the New Testament per 2Pet
1:3-4 which says:

"His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness
through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness.
Through these He has given us His very great and precious promises, so that
through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the
corruption that's in the world."

I should think it goes without saying that the divine nature would be a whole
lots more successful at producing an acceptable level of piety than the
human nature could ever hope for because even at its best the human
nature is corrupt; which is translated from a Greek word basically pertaining
to damaged goods, i.e. broken.

But what's to become of our human nature? Well; God has devised a
mysterious surgical procedure for effectively amputating it.

● Col 2:11 . . In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the
sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the
circumcision done by Christ.

All in all then; when Christ's followers depart for Heaven, they don't go to
the next life handicapped with that broken human nature.
_

 

[quietthinker]

You have to walk perfect in heaven​

How do you feel about your idea of compulsion (have to) Dev. ?

 

[Debp]

And I will give you a new heart with new and right desires, and I will
put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony heart of sin and give you a
new, obedient heart. And I will put My spirit in you so you will obey My laws
and do whatever I command.

I think of the above as when we are born again through our faith in Christ and the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us. We have a desire to live godly in Christ once we are born again.

 

[Bob Estey]

I studied the bible and found a Karma principle that I see. That your sins come back and kill you. So that we must after being forgiven and resurrected walk perfect in heaven.

Ideas?

I do believe our sins will always come back to bite us, so we need to stop sinning.