I really don't want to get into another debate about OSAS right now.
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Young rich ruler not saved, why ?
- Thread starter PeterAndroz
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1 Cor 15.1-4, Eph 1.13, Col 2.13
Since hear, trust, believe that Christ died, was buried, rose 3 days later is how we today are saved, HS sealed & forgiven of all sins
and Gal 2.16, Rom 3.28, Eph 2.8-9, Titus 3.5-7, Rom 4.5, Rom 5.1 are the performance requirements.
Can you list where Jesus VIA Paul taught what is required for you to forfeit your entry into Heaven ?
Please, just the verses, not opinions :)
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
The young rich ruler claimed to have kept all the commandments from his youth up, but Jesus tested his heart by telling him to sell his possessions and give them to the poor. His great possessions acted as an idol which proved that his wealth was his true master rather than God. The rich young ruler confidently and (self-righteously) declared that he has kept the commandments from his youth up and qualified for heaven under those terms yet Jesus knew the man's wealth had become his idolatrous god, which kept him from believing in Jesus unto salvation (John 3:18) so he has not kept the commandments from his youth up.
The young rich ruler missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued instead to trust in his riches. (Matthew 19:21-23) He went away sad because he could not part from his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life. When faced with the choice between his earthly wealth and eternal life with Jesus, he chose his wealth and went away grieving. Jesus used the law (not to teach salvation by works) but to expose that human sinfulness and self-righteousness fall short of God's perfect standard. Jesus went on to explain that with man this is impossible but with God all things are possible.
The young rich ruler missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued instead to trust in his riches. (Matthew 19:21-23) He went away sad because he could not part from his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life. When faced with the choice between his earthly wealth and eternal life with Jesus, he chose his wealth and went away grieving. Jesus used the law (not to teach salvation by works) but to expose that human sinfulness and self-righteousness fall short of God's perfect standard. Jesus went on to explain that with man this is impossible but with God all things are possible.
Here are a few scriptures.....they are all GOD's word regardless of who penned them.
Heb 6:4-8
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Heb 10:26-31
For if we sin wilfully (keep on sinning wilfully) after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Mat 3:10
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
2Pe 2:18-22
For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
I mean it couldn't be more clear, but those who don't want to accept it, can't accept it...it makes them blind to the truth and they have to start "reasoning" or twisting the obvious truth away.
Yes, and Jesus was satisfied with his answer. Of course religious ideologues are NOT satisfied with his answer....but this is supposed to be what Jesus said, not what people twist the bible to say.
Well, first of all, it was the young man who pressed the issue, not Jesus. You are leaving that HUGE consideration out...based on your ideology, of course. Which means you can't be trusted to interpret anything from the bible.
The young man asked....Is that all there is???? Jesus replies, if you would be perfect.....not saved.
The whole issue began with what is required to INHERIT life (after death).. Jesus answers ...do the commandments. Of course modern religious people who CLAIM to follow Jesus don't believe Him.
Yes, you can't serve God and Mammon....so he couldn't be God's servant....like most modern believers.
The self-righteousness comes from your reading of the bible....not the young man. He was honest....you are not.
You are missing the point that Jesus was making.
That's not what Jesus said. You are speaking from an indoctrination into a decoy religion that has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus.
that's right...he preferred his temporal riches to eternal riches, like almost every modern believer. That's the lesson.
So then why don't you repent of your own self-seeking and self-interest? Surrender your life to God....not just look to save yourself.
He who seeks to save his life shall lose it. But he who loses his life for the sake of Christ will find it.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Acts 20:28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
I think we have to remember that the rich young man was a Jew who was faithful to the old covenant, but Jesus was showing him the way into the new covenant. For him personally it seems his wealth and status was a hindrance or hurdle as you are saying.......but for us who are already under the new covenant it is speaking on a kind of spiritual level of forsaking all that we have in in this world, with regard to our life in it and being part of it, no longer living for ourselves and chasing after the things that people of the world chase, paying whatever price it costs us to follow/obey Jesus. I consider that it means being separate from the world and no longer conformed to it, which involves dying to ourselves and old man as well.
The new covenant was revolutionary to old covenant Judaism......under the Law material blessings and prosperity were overall considered to be a reward for righteousness, and to be poor meant you must have sinned in some way.......under the new covenant the material blessings were only a type/shadow of the spiritual riches and blessings we receive under it.
(And just to say I don't disagree with everything Epi said in response to you in principle, but his attitude leaves a lot to be desired that's for sure.)
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My attitude? That's rich. I know you hate the truth as it applies to your foundation which is your ego. But this is counterproductive because your attitude is one that God rejects. I just point that out. If you want to shoot the messenger...fine. But you will be the one paying for your indifference to God's ways and judgments.
What about it? You are confusing me with an ego seeker. I don't care if you agree with me or not. I don't care if you think I am speaking 50% right or 50% wrong. I judge by the Spirit. I don't receive honour from people. My reward is not by human applause.
I care only what God thinks. :) <><
If that becomes your concern in the future...you will find me very amenable.
There are some here who are trying to polish their way of SPEAKING...or how they put things.... to be more acceptable....to SOUND more spiritual...but their hearts are FAR from God and His ways. All that is changing is their communication style...adapting more biblical sounding language. To say I'm not fooled by this would be an understatement.
Some will hear my rebuke and change their ways...and I will hear nothing about it until judgment day. Others will realize they have been exposed and think they need to hide their true intentions (ego) better so as not to be spotted and called out. These will become more difficult to spot for novices and they will fool more people...but these will be judged as imposters very soon. No fear of the Lord or humility or honesty for these...just more and more guile.
Some will hear my rebuke and change their ways...and I will hear nothing about it until judgment day. Others will realize they have been exposed and think they need to hide their true intentions (ego) better so as not to be spotted and called out. These will become more difficult to spot for novices and they will fool more people...but these will be judged as imposters very soon. No fear of the Lord or humility or honesty for these...just more and more guile.
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mailmandan
Well-Known Member
I see/hear you. It was a rhetorical question. Because the only thing that mattered to you was you.
Wolves get very snappy and snarly if you don't sit still and let them eat you for dinner. It's their nature.
Nice self-portrait. Your motivation is to destroy the possibility of life in others....but you want to be nice about it. On the contrary...people might say I'm a sheep in wolf's clothing...or how I expose the religious egos in people who are walking in darkness...because I'm not the one trying to play innocent and nice. MY motive is to save people, not be nice about it. Many are going to be rejected from God forever. I know it...but people are so smug they have no fear. And I won't be on their case forever....just bringing clarity to the situations presented by the threads. When I see people trying to stop others from entering into life and truth...I get involved.
More like a sheep dog.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Oh, the IRONY. You are not fooling me or any of my brothers and sisters in Christ for one second. Your self delusion is remarkable!
You are a product of a mass religious delusion based on the mob. This thread is about Jesus loving a young man who was curious about what it takes to inherit eternal life. The religious contagion of the mob wants to condemn the young man because he didn't want to lose his life as he knew it.
But make no mistake, people are condemning themselves by condemning the rich young ruler. That's the lesson behind the lesson. But people are not that wise...instead they follow a religious ideology that seeks to silence and denigrate those who are speaking the truth. That's why you hate my presence. But I know you from other forums where you had the same subversive effect. Basically a religious ideologue who hates the truth.
So do your twisting and accuse me of what you are doing. You may fool the novices and ego seekers here. And they may even be in the majority, as they are in all the reaches of Babylon.
.....If we condemn the rich young ruler we are condemning ourselves. How many of us have done an Acts 2? Selling all we have to have all things in common in order to share out our goods equally among the brethren?It's too easy to judge others hypocritically.
And how many ever listen to what Jesus says? Not many. If Jesus says that to inherit eternal life, we need to obey the commandments...then why contradict Him. Isn't He still the Lord?
Maybe the religious ideology so many have been spoon-fed is wrong. Maybe Jesus speaks the truth.
MostlyConfused
Well-Known Member
You just give them fodder when you discuss with them. When they realize they’ve been caught and don’t look perfect in something, they adjust so they can say “no one has caught me cheating!”
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