Your Favorite Evangelists

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Nov 8, 2007
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(DrBubbaLove;37460)
Several hundred years before The First Council of Nicaea (325AD) and starting with the 1st century;The Didache"After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. . . . If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]). Ignatius of Antioch (around 100AD)"Jesus Christ . . . was with the Father before the beginning of time, and in the end was revealed. . . . Jesus Christ . . . came forth from one Father and is with and has gone to one [Father]. . . . [T]here is one God, who has manifested himself by Jesus Christ his Son, who is his eternal Word, not proceeding forth from silence, and who in all things pleased him that sent himJustin Martyr (around 151 AD)"God speaks in the creation of man with the very same design, in the following words: ‘Let us make man after our image and likeness.’ . . . I shall quote again the words narrated by Moses himself, from which we can indisputably learn that [God] conversed with someone numerically distinct from himself and also a rational being. . . . But this offspring who was truly brought forth from the Father, was with the Father before all the creatures, and the Father communed with him""We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness, saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are ignorant of the mystery which lies therein" Polycarp of Smyrna (155AD)"I praise you for all things, I bless you, I glorify you, along with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, with whom, to you and the Holy Spirit, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen"Theophilus of Antioch (around 181AD)"It is the attribute of God, of the most high and almighty and of the living God, not only to be everywhere, but also to see and hear all; for he can in no way be contained in a place. . . . The three days before the luminaries were created are types of the Trinity: God, his Word, and his Wisdom" (To Autolycus 2:15 [A.D. 181]). Irenaeus (around 180-190AD)"It was not angels, therefore, who made us nor who formed us, neither had angels power to make an image of God, nor anyone else. . . . For God did not stand in need of these in order to accomplish what he had himself determined with himself beforehand should be done, as if he did not possess his own hands. For with him [the Father] were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, he made all things, to whom also he speaks, saying, ‘Let us make man in our image and likeness’ "For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty . . . and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit" (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]). Tertullian (about 216 AD)"Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent persons, who are yet distinct one from another. These three are, one essence, not one person, as it is said, ‘I and my Father are one’ [John 10:30], in respect of unity of being not singularity of number" (ibid., 25). And associated with St John we are probably talking about Saints Ignatius and Polycarp as Saint Irenaeus was not born before Saint John died.
Don't you Find it Funny that Iranaeus Didn't believe in the Trinity. He Believed in the Unity of God, an acute form of the Oneness Belief. He believed Jesus Christ was the Fullness of YHWH, not the Second Person in the Godhead. When I said Iranaeus was a disciple of John, I meant that he Followed what Poly Carp took from John the Revelator. I don't care about much of those other Trinitarians.If you Notice the Disciples of John the Revelator, Ignatius, Poly Carp and Iranaeus they did not adhere to the Trinity Dogma. THEY ARE DIRECTLY in line with CHRIST's TEACHINGS.
 

DrBubbaLove

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Jan 17, 2008
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I think what is funny is how one claims a version of history (no Trinity doctrine until Nicaea), then when showed history could not have happened that way, the reply is yeah but...., So what happened to the claim that the whole Trinity thing was made up in the forth century? (now that is funny)We first noted that the Baptismal formula, used in the document which claims to be from the Apostles themselves in the first century (Didache), is the same Trinitarian formula used today. As at least one Apostle is still living when that was written, if the formula were not really an Apostolic teaching one would think Saint John or one of his many disciples (including two mentioned here) would have spoken out against it. Do we drop that and say “yeah but” to that too? As Ignatius is describing a real, distinct Person that "proceeds" forth from another Person (the Father) and yet he says there is "One God", am not sure how a non-Trinitarian would see that statement as particularly funny.Nor would we think a non-Trinitarian would take glee in Polycarp giving glory to Three Persons, the glory that should only be given to the One God. (hint: To this Saint the Three Persons are One God, so it is proper to give each the Glory only due the One True God.)Neither would we think a non-Trinitarian would care for Irenaeus proclaiming Three distinct Persons and One God in the act of creation. He says only God could make an image of God, notes God (the Father Creator of All things) did not need the angles to help Him create because he says the Father was never alone, he had help. One can only be NOT alone if there are other real, distinct PERSONS present. Irenaeus goes on to say THRU Jesus, the Father made all things, which includes angels and man, who are made in His Image. As he just proclaimed only God could make an image of God, he has just said Jesus is God. So Jesus is God and the Father is God and the Three persons are distinct Persons according to Irenaeus. We suppose that what a non-Trinitarian might find funny in the quotes of these specific three early Christian writers is that they did not use the word "Trinity". However, as already noted each of them clearly expressed several aspects of the Trinity doctrine in these quotes. Am not sure why the lack of the word would be funny to anyone that really understood what it means for doctrine to develop or who appreciates the history of Christianity.We should not wonder that many of the earliest of these writers would not be as precise or clear on what would eventually develop as the doctrine of the Trinity, because it took several hundred years to fully develop. Some of these men were writing at the VERY beginning of that development. As the Apostles did not hand this doctrine to them fully developed, it should be no surprise to us if during these several hundred years that two or more of these men disagreed or expressed aspects of a Trinity that would now be considered unorthodox (severe subordination for example). That is the nature of how concepts, ideas, doctrines develop. Not everyone is going to be right about everything along the way in the process. Doctrines such as the Trinity were not handed to the Church on a silver platter fully developed from Jesus or the Apostles teachings or from scripture. Such things come from reasoning, understanding and thinking about what Jesus, the Apostles and scriptures tell us. Not thinking over night or even by one man, but a process over ages of such thinking by many Christians. For things as complex as what became the Trinity doctrine, it took centuries of men such as these writing, thinking, discussing, defending and finally agreeing on what it meant and what it did not mean. Before it is declared as a doctrine to be held and believed by all the faithful in the 4th century at Nicaea, these men were free to speculate and voice various opinions on the matter with only one caveat. As long as what they expressed did not contradict scripture or what was already held as Tradition or doctrine by the Church - which at first was only things they said Jesus and the Apostles taught.And there were fights all along the way, charges of heresy, defense of Church position, challeges of popularly held positions. Bit by bit the pieces come together. At various times along the way a single person might correctly express one or more aspects of what would BECOME the Trinity doctrine while getting other things wrong. Again this is the nature of how a doctrine developes.So before one gets too glib about three of these men not writing the word “Trinity”, consider exactly what they did say and the implications of it. What they did say certainly could not be called non-Trinitarian. Collectively these three men in just the quotes given above said; Three distinct Persons (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), One God, proper to give glory to each of the Three Persons (the Glory due God alone), Father never alone (eternally Three Persons implied), Son proceeds from the Father, Only One God, only God can create an image of God, Father created all through Jesus, through Him all things were made, Jesus made man and angles (implied Jesus is God). Now if any of these things sound familiar one is either Trinitarian or familiar with the Nicene Creed. If one cannot see the similarities, then either one is a very sheltered non-Trinitarian unfamiliar with the Creed or in denial. That denial would be funny.
 

Wakka

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Jun 4, 2007
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Don't you Find it Funny that Iranaeus Didn't believe in the Trinity. He Believed in the Unity of God, an acute form of the Oneness Belief. He believed Jesus Christ was the Fullness of YHWH, not the Second Person in the Godhead. When I said Iranaeus was a disciple of John, I meant that he Followed what Poly Carp took from John the Revelator. I don't care about much of those other Trinitarians.If you Notice the Disciples of John the Revelator, Ignatius, Poly Carp and Iranaeus they did not adhere to the Trinity Dogma. THEY ARE DIRECTLY in line with CHRIST's TEACHINGS.
Yeah, I believe in the Unity. But isn't it the same as the trinity? I didn't read all of the posts, sorry.Trinity = Lord, Jesus, Holy Spirit are one.Unity = Lord, Jesus, Holy Spirit are one.
 
Nov 8, 2007
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(Wakka;37569)
Yeah, I believe in the Unity. But isn't it the same as the trinity? I didn't read all of the posts, sorry.Trinity = Lord, Jesus, Holy Spirit are one.Unity = Lord, Jesus, Holy Spirit are one.
Kid you know to slow down when you read. I was Wrong, Ignatius, Poly Carp and Iraneus Were Oneness Believers, not Trinitarians. Unitarians are Twoness Believers, Believe in the Fullness of God Father and Holy Ghost, but deny the Divinity of Jesus Christ, more commonly like Christian Scientists.
 

Alanforchrist

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Dec 25, 2007
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The Holy Ghost, The Apostle Paul, William Marrion Branham. The First two are obvious selections. The Last One is a Fulfillment of Malachi 4:5. The 7th Angel to Laodicea in Revelation 3.
That was taliking about John the baptist, Matthew 11: 7--15, Luke 1: 13--17.
 

Wakka

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Jun 4, 2007
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Kid you know to slow down when you read. I was Wrong, Ignatius, Poly Carp and Iraneus Were Oneness Believers, not Trinitarians. Unitarians are Twoness Believers, Believe in the Fullness of God Father and Holy Ghost, but deny the Divinity of Jesus Christ, more commonly like Christian Scientists.
English is my second language! Give me a break.
 

DrBubbaLove

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Jan 17, 2008
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Unorthodox,How can the thee Saints you mentioned be expressing Oneness or Unity? Do you conclude this because they did not use the word "Trinity"? What they did say certainly could not be called non-Trinitarian. They each express one or more clear elements of what hunderds of years later became known as the orthodox Trinity doctrine. You cannot have Oneness with Three distinct Persons (Father, Son and Holy Spirit).
 
Nov 8, 2007
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(Wakka;37791)
English is my second language! Give me a break.
This is why I hate Text, You can't see whether one is typing in sarcastic, calm or a funny tone. Sorry Wakka.Cause my tone was Calm
 
Nov 8, 2007
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(Alanforchrist;37769)
That was taliking about John the baptist, Matthew 11: 7--15, Luke 1: 13--17.
Are You Sure?Notice Verse 11 in Matthew 17:11“And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.”Shall is Future Tense, John was Malachi 3 and what Isaiah Prophesied as the One calling and preparing the Way of the Lord. John had the power of the Spirit of Elijah. But for that time he was the Elijah they missed. Now Truly HE SHALL COME FIRST, if John was that Elijah why then Did Jesus say the missed him and that HE SHALL(Future tense) Come. William Branham came with the Power and Spirit of Elijah, he was not Elijah Though.He Could Discern the Hearts of PeopleHebrews 4:12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.He was able to Raise 7 Dead People to Life, Showing that IT WAS NOT HIM DOING THE WORKS but God in Him.John 14:12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.When Elijah and John came to the Scene they were Wild Men. So Was William Branham, men of nature. They hated Organization, Elijah Called Israel out of her backsliding. John the Baptist called out the Sadducees and Pharisees. William Branham called the Church out of Denomination, and told them to Let the Holy Spirit Move and stop being Nicolatains.He Had Visions and WHEN IT WAS THUS SAITH THE LORD all those Visions came to Pass.William Branham's Prophecies THUS SAITH THE LORD(Click)He had Great Revelation, The Serpent Seed which a few CB members here believe. He Saw that the First white Horse of Revelation was the Anti-Christ, because he knew the Anti-Christ comes first, then he says that the True White Horse Rider is the Word of God later on in Revelation. No Eternal Hell or Eternal Suffering.I believe he is Malachi 4:5. Because John was to turn the hearts of the Father to the Children, William Branham turned the hearts of the Children to the Fathers(The Apostolic Faith)
 

tim_from_pa

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Jul 11, 2007
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English is my second language! Give me a break.
You do very well, Wakka. You know I always thought highly of you. You are young yet and yet have giant faith---- that's good!
 

Wakka

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Jun 4, 2007
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(tim_from_pa;37889)
You do very well, Wakka. You know I always thought highly of you. You are young yet and yet have giant faith---- that's good!
I wouldn't consider it being giant. I wish I had more faith.
 
Nov 8, 2007
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(Unorthodox Christian;37825)
Are You Sure?Notice Verse 11 in Matthew 17:11“And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.”Shall is Future Tense, John was Malachi 3 and what Isaiah Prophesied as the One calling and preparing the Way of the Lord. John had the power of the Spirit of Elijah. But for that time he was the Elijah they missed. Now Truly HE SHALL COME FIRST, if John was that Elijah why then Did Jesus say the missed him and that HE SHALL(Future tense) Come. William Branham came with the Power and Spirit of Elijah, he was not Elijah Though.He Could Discern the Hearts of PeopleHebrews 4:12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.He was able to Raise 7 Dead People to Life, Showing that IT WAS NOT HIM DOING THE WORKS but God in Him.John 14:12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.When Elijah and John came to the Scene they were Wild Men. So Was William Branham, men of nature. They hated Organization, Elijah Called Israel out of her backsliding. John the Baptist called out the Sadducees and Pharisees. William Branham called the Church out of Denomination, and told them to Let the Holy Spirit Move and stop being Nicolatains.He Had Visions and WHEN IT WAS THUS SAITH THE LORD all those Visions came to Pass.William Branham's Prophecies THUS SAITH THE LORD(Click)He had Great Revelation, The Serpent Seed which a few CB members here believe. He Saw that the First white Horse of Revelation was the Anti-Christ, because he knew the Anti-Christ comes first, then he says that the True White Horse Rider is the Word of God later on in Revelation. No Eternal Hell or Eternal Suffering.I believe he is Malachi 4:5. Because John was to turn the hearts of the Father to the Children, William Branham turned the hearts of the Children to the Fathers(The Apostolic Faith)
Does anybody think what I posted was anything Significant? I do, because this is strictly scripture.Especially you CB members that Believe in the Serpent Seed, No eternal Suffering, the First White Horse Rider in Revelation is the Anti-Christ.
 

Aleks_Kravchuk

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Mar 14, 2008
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(Wakka;37791)
English is my second language! Give me a break.
English is also my second language
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lol What other language you speaks?I speak russian.By the way. I strongly support trinity. I have never seen anything wrong with it
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God is good.
 

His By Grace

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Dec 28, 2007
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Well, back to the favorite evangelist topic, I find it hard to endorse a popular evangelist because I always wonder if there's something I don't know about them that would make me regret that I spoke so highly of them at a later date. Anyway, I think Charles Stanley is a man of integrity. From what I have seen and heard, he seems to be the real deal. I find that the ones I most respect are the ones who go from church to church and not that many people would really know their names, but God sure does because He's using them in a powerful way. They humbly serve Him all of their lives and don't care about the recognition of themselves. Those are the ones I respect the most.