RLT63
Well-Known Member
I disagree with JW but I don’t trash them anymore or think it’s productive to attack them. I have learned things from @Aunty Jane and no matter what you say about her you have to admit that she knows the Bible.
Reasons why the Jehovah’s Witness religion is false (Despite my love for them as human beings)
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Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
My thoughts about her are similar.
Should we attack a person simply because they are a JW and defend what they believe?
How many non-JW Germans labeled as Christian stood up against Hitler and his Nazi's? Were the Nazi's on the Lord's side? Were the JW's who died for their faith in Nazi concentration camps on the Lord's side? How many other Christians died for their faith in those camps?
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Glad someone is pushing back against a cult that attempts to destroy the Christian faith.
Sad some in here think playing with snakes is charming.
I will always defend the faith.
Watchtower is a spirit.
It DENIES JESUS.
and some in here sit up to that table and eat that watchtower poison.
No discernment?????
You people are unaware that the devil comes on a white horse claiming he is Christ????
Will you also cuddle that demon as well??????
Sad some in here think playing with snakes is charming.
I will always defend the faith.
Watchtower is a spirit.
It DENIES JESUS.
and some in here sit up to that table and eat that watchtower poison.
No discernment?????
You people are unaware that the devil comes on a white horse claiming he is Christ????
Will you also cuddle that demon as well??????
RLT63
Well-Known Member
I don’t agree with them but it’s up to God to do the judging, not me.
I believe that as long as the focus is on the sacrifice and message of Jesus that JW can be saved. I would not say every JW will not get saved. Doctrinal issues make it harder to stay connected to God and influence others, but what matters is contextual message understanding. I would say its easier for a JW to get saved than a Mormon. Do you agree?
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Well, that is magnanimous of you....I’m sure it was well meant......
But doctrinal issues are what divide the confused religious system that Christendom has become.....do you think Christ could be party to the constant squabbling and still accept all these different denominations (which are based entirely on the opinions of men) to be “the truth”....the “whole truth” as Jesus taught in the scriptures?
I would venture to say that it is more difficult for those indoctrinated with Christendom’s foundational beliefs to be saved, because they all think they can’t be wrong, whilst not agreeing with each other......pretending to have a unity that does not exist. Belief in Jesus is not all that is required.....
What did Paul say....?
1 Cor 1:10.....
“Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.”
Does that describe Christendom in any way?....sorry if you think so......I bailed out on Christendom decades ago and I have never regretted the departure. I have studied the Bible thoroughly for myself....consulting Concordances.....Interlinears and investigating original language words to see how they are rendered in other translations.....this has paid off as it becomes very obvious that Christendom strayed from the path of truth centuries ago, and nobody has noticed except those who demand proof for all that they believe from God’s word....just as the ancient Beroeans did. (Acts 17:10-11) How thoroughly have you studied what you accept as truth? We all have to ask ourselves that question.
If you have some differences that you think I should accept in order to be a ‘genuine Christian’, then please post them and we can discuss those differences politely in the light of what the entirety of Scripture teaches, not just the favourite cherry picked verses.......you see, this is what I encounter when people accuse us of not teaching Bible truth....they have done no real study for themselves, and blindly accept what they have been taught.....this is what happened to the Jews......their leaders went off the rails hundreds of years before Christ came, so no one had any idea that what they were taught was “the traditions of men” not the truth of God’s word. (Matt 15:7-9) It led them to crucify their own Messiah. (Matt 27:25)
Jesus came, and what he taught was not in line with the accepted religion, so naturally they rejected him....did that make his teachings lies? Only those not indoctrinated accepted Jesus as the Christ. They learned the truth and the Jews persecuted them for it.
Learn from history my friend...or it keeps repeating. The devil has no new tricks.
Berean
Active Member
I believe everyone will have the opportunity to be saved during the Millennial Reign. It is during this period that all of mankind will learn about the permission of evil and grow in grace and knowledge during which time Satan will be in the abyss, so as not to influence anyone.
That said, we need to remember that the Jehovah's Witnesses are taught by their Governing Body that Jesus is the mediator for the "anointed" Christians only, that is the 144,000. Thus the rank-and-file JW has no mediator. Their salvation is hinged on obeying the voice of their Governing Body, who reminds them at every opportunity that they are the "faithful and discreet slave" mentioned in Matthew 24:45, appointed by Jesus.
Here is a link to their own website on this matter
Is Jesus the Mediator only for spirit-anointed Christians or for all mankind...?
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FYI: “Mormons” actually have nothing in common with JW. Example: Mormons (like myself) believe that Jesus Christ is the divine Son of God and salvation comes through Him.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
OK.....let's start here....for all the armchair critics who will believe every negative thing they hear just because they want to find fault.
What is a mediator?
"The term “mediator” occurs just six times in the Christian Greek Scriptures and Scripturally is always used regarding a formal covenant. It is the legally appointed "go between" for sinful humans with Jehovah, separated from him by sin.
The mediator cannot be one of the parties whom he is trying to reconcile.
Moses was the “mediator” of the Law covenant made between God and the nation of Israel. (Gal. 3:19, 20) Christ, though, is the “mediator of a new covenant” between Jehovah and spiritual Israel, the “Israel of God” (Gal 6:16) that will serve as kings and priests in heaven with Jesus. (Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24) At a time when God was selecting those to be taken into that new covenant, the apostle Paul wrote that Christ was the “one mediator between God and men.” (1 Tim. 2:5) Reasonably Paul was here using the word “mediator” in the same way he did the other five times, which occurred before the writing of 1 Timothy 2:5, referring to those then being taken into the new covenant for which Christ is “mediator.” So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the “mediator” only for anointed Christians.".....just as the nation of fleshly Israel was in a covenant relationship with their God and no one else was taken into that arrangement but them. Even converts to Judaism, even though they were bound to keep God's law, could not hold positions of service to God.....
Among the nation of Israel were tribes who had exclusive rights. Only those of the tribe of Levi could be priests and only those of Judah could be kings. Those chosen for a role in heaven are said to be both kings and priests, just as Jesus is a king and priest "according to the manner of Melchizedek."
The “great crowd” that is spoken about in Rev 7:9-10, 13-14 are not parties that new covenant. However, by their associating with the “little flock” of those who are in that covenant, they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant. During the millennium Jesus Christ will be their king, high priest and judge.
When Jesus comes to make his judgment, he identifies those who are his "brothers"....for those who might be interested...God does not have "brothers" he has "sons"...both angelic and adopted humans.....those human "sons"(by adoption) are taken into the new covenant.
Matt 25:31-40....
“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; 36 naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’".......and likewise he says to the "goats" that they have failed to take care of his "brothers" and rejects them as rejecting him.
Who are Christ's "brothers" and who are those who render assistance to them?
Suggesting that all mankind are not covered under that covenant as beneficiaries is nonsense.
The anointed are assigned to inform all mankind about the only hope for mankind....sent out to preach to all who will listen..."the good news of the kingdom" (Matt 10:11-14; Matthew 24:14; Matt 28:19-20; Acts 20:20) Those who are not chosen for role in heaven are to serve God on earth, where he put mankind in the first place. As the number of the anointed diminish as they finish their earthly course, the "other sheep" step in to assist those who are left.
I don't see anyone else out there preaching about God's Kingdom "as a witness to all the nations" except Jehovah's Witnesses.....where are your brethren....? and who have ever even heard of them? What good news do they have?
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
That is not the problem and you know it.....JW's also believe that.....its what else you believe that finds no support in any part of scripture that you are avoiding mention of. You seem to want to blend in, but there can be no blending if you hold no beliefs in common with any one.
No....but we should stand on the Living word...who happens to be God’s witness the Holy Spirit.
They believe what they believe, I never challenge her anymore...no need to, I stand on God’s Living word backed up by His written word.
I’m led by the Living Holy Spirit to understand scripture, that is the only way I can understand God’s written word.
JW imo tell a story of the Bible...” their own story “ as long as they don’t push that belief onto me, I don’t have a problem.....I ignore their content and move on....xx
No point in having one’s own biblical knowledge, without spiritual knowledge that is given to us by the Living Holy Spirit, his testimony/ witness, is what the Bible is all about..He witnesses Gods truth to our hearts...not our mind only....
He Glorifies the Father through us.....we don’t glorify ourselves ,puffing ourselves with our own human understanding of God’s written word, that to me would be highly embarrassing.
We know NOTHING without His Living Spirit.....
There is no glory in self or in a theology degree.
Glory is in JESUS and what He accomplished on that cross.....my knowledge comes from within my spirit, where the Holy Spirit indwells , my body houses the Holy Spirit, my body is a temple.
All spiritual knowledge/ understanding comes from the Holy Spirit, we are NOTHING without Him.
We are used by God via His Spirit...to GLORIFY His Name...no name is above the NAME OF JESUS!!!
JESUS!!...JESUS!!!....JESUS!!...thank you Lord for your Living witness the Holy Spirit who has manifested Himself in my heart/ spirit...what an Honour and Privilege!!!!
Using this wretched sinner as your vessel...mind blowing!!!
My testimony and belief.
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Amen!!!...only through the Name of Jesus!!!....
Indeed, stand on the Word, being led by the Holy Spirit.
"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven" Ecc3:1
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But who among us never quenches the Spirit which would lead and thereby takes hold of his own reins?
| "For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body." James 3:2 |
A time to talk and a time to walk away. Even so...as the Holy Spirit leads us.
| "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5 |
Keiw
Well-Known Member
The whole reason there are hundreds of religions claiming to be christian with hundreds of different truths is because 99% of them do not have holy spirit. Jesus is with 1 religion-1Cor 1:10= Unity of thought( ALL of Gods 1 truth) no division. Proves its 1 religion that has Jesus and gets the holy spirit.
I like your closing line-Matt 6:33-- seek his(YHVH(Jehovah) righteousness. The religions lacking holy spirit teach to seek Jesus' righteousness--they are called trinity religions= a house divided will not stand.
Berean
Active Member
Ironic that they say the same about the Witnesses.
Or having the Holy Spirit, individuals regularly quench the Holy Spirit. Is it not for this reason that Paul writes this?
| 1th 5:19 | Quench not the Spirit. |
Be careful here. I am not a Trinitarian, but Trinitarianism, pro or con, is a forbidden subject here.
Berean
Active Member
The "Little Flock" is NOT under the New Covenant, nor is Jesus their Mediator. According to 1 John 2:1 Jesus is their "Advocate with the Father." You see there is a difference between Advocate and Mediator.
The word "mediator" in our English language is often used in our common conversations in a different way from what it is used in the Bible. In the Scriptures, every use of the word "mediator", is in connection with a covenant. Christ is the mediator of the New Covenant (Hebrews 9:19; 12:24). A mediator stands between two conflicting parties, in Scripture, it would be as 1 Timothy 2:5 tells us, Jesus is the mediator between God and humanity. The Church is not in conflict with God. Christ has redeemed the world and He is to be a Mediator in the matter of dispensing certain blessings. Jehovah agrees to take and accept these people of the world through this Mediator. Christ agrees to bring the world up to perfection--He stands between God and them. He represents them to God. He can stand between them and Jehovah and give them all the assistance by virtue of the sacrifice He has already made. He carries out the provisions of the New Covenant to the world, assuring the world and giving God assurance, and in the end of the age will turn them over to the Father perfect--restored to the perfection lost in Adam.
Now an advocate is your attorney--he is not the other man's attorney--he is never for any side but your side. He has the right to go into court because he is a member of the court. You cannot go in any time to court, but you must have an attorney to appear there for you. You are at liberty and in good standing--you are not condemned by the court, but you must get a lawyer thoroughly conversant with our laws--you must have an attorney. An attorney is not a mediator, but your representative before the court. So the Church has an advocate with the Father. "If any man sin we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." What will he say for us? He will represent to the Father that we have imperfections but He knows our hearts are right and this would be a proper case for leniency. We have forgiveness of sin through faith in His blood.
Now back to the Mediator, in the case of 1 Timothy 2:5, the mediator is Jesus and the Church (His body members). The 144,001 will mediate between Jehovah and humanity, reconciling them back to God. As Galatians 3:16 tells us Jesus is the promised seed of Abraham, however verse 29 tells us "if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."
Maybe I should get one of those fancy carts and stand around waiting for someone to walk by.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Jesus made a special covenant with the little flock only. It occurred at the Lords evening meal( Luke 22)-- And at verses 29-30 its a covenant only to those who will sit on thrones( to partake of the emblems)= the little flock, numbered-144,000 bought from the earth( Rev 14:3) The great crowd will not be sitting on thrones, they will remain on earth. Psalm 37:29, Matt 5:5) Prov 2:21-22 assures they are not leaving this earth.The "Little Flock" is NOT under the New Covenant, nor is Jesus their Mediator. According to 1 John 2:1 Jesus is their "Advocate with the Father." You see there is a difference between Advocate and Mediator.
The word "mediator" in our English language is often used in our common conversations in a different way from what it is used in the Bible. In the Scriptures, every use of the word "mediator", is in connection with a covenant. Christ is the mediator of the New Covenant (Hebrews 9:19; 12:24). A mediator stands between two conflicting parties, in Scripture, it would be as 1 Timothy 2:5 tells us, Jesus is the mediator between God and humanity. The Church is not in conflict with God. Christ has redeemed the world and He is to be a Mediator in the matter of dispensing certain blessings. Jehovah agrees to take and accept these people of the world through this Mediator. Christ agrees to bring the world up to perfection--He stands between God and them. He represents them to God. He can stand between them and Jehovah and give them all the assistance by virtue of the sacrifice He has already made. He carries out the provisions of the New Covenant to the world, assuring the world and giving God assurance, and in the end of the age will turn them over to the Father perfect--restored to the perfection lost in Adam.
Now an advocate is your attorney--he is not the other man's attorney--he is never for any side but your side. He has the right to go into court because he is a member of the court. You cannot go in any time to court, but you must have an attorney to appear there for you. You are at liberty and in good standing--you are not condemned by the court, but you must get a lawyer thoroughly conversant with our laws--you must have an attorney. An attorney is not a mediator, but your representative before the court. So the Church has an advocate with the Father. "If any man sin we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." What will he say for us? He will represent to the Father that we have imperfections but He knows our hearts are right and this would be a proper case for leniency. We have forgiveness of sin through faith in His blood.
Now back to the Mediator, in the case of 1 Timothy 2:5, the mediator is Jesus and the Church (His body members). The 144,001 will mediate between Jehovah and humanity, reconciling them back to God. As Galatians 3:16 tells us Jesus is the promised seed of Abraham, however verse 29 tells us "if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."
Maybe I should get one of those fancy carts and stand around waiting for someone to walk by.
The unworthy to partake Paul mentions = the great crowd-these are the only other ones who will be saved. 1Cor 11:27)
Blind guides tell all to partake.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Since we have no beliefs that are outside of scripture, the one thing we do not desire to do, is to blend in......there is to be “no sharing of truth with the lie”, “no sharing of light with darkness”. (2 Cor 6:14-18)
Who thinks that they are in the dark, spiritually? Anyone you know? Who is the judge of that? The one appointed by Jehovah. We will all stand before the same judge. Won’t that be interesting? (Matt 7:21-23)
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