The (7th) Abomination That Maketh Desolate

[Earburner]

Peter wrote no such thing. The timeframe of the burning of the old, and the coming of the new is post-judgmentday not anywhere near the second coming.

2 Peter 3
[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the LAST days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[5] For this they WILLINGLY are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
[7] BUT the heavens and the earth, which are NOW, by the same word are KEPT IN STORE, RESERVED unto FIRE against the DAY of judgment and perdition [destruction] of ungodly men.

See also: 2 Thes. 1:7-10 about (Eternal) Flaming Fire.

 

[ewq1938]

No, God's judgment is NOW.

Not the GWTJ from Rev 20. It is FUTURE.

 

[ewq1938]

2 Peter 3
[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
[7] BUT the heavens and the earth, which are NOW, by the same word are KEPT IN STORE, RESERVED unto FIRE against the DAY of judgment and perdition [destruction] of ungodly men.

See also: 2 Thes. 1:7-10 about (Eternal) Flaming Fire.

2 Peter 3
[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
[7] BUT the heavens and the earth, which are NOW, by the same word are KEPT IN STORE, RESERVED unto FIRE against the DAY of judgment and perdition [destruction] of ungodly men.

 

[Timtofly]

Actually, with respect, it is the dispensationalist view of a literal future 1000 year reign that makes things difficult....it contradicts what Peter said about this world being burned into nothing at the coming of Christ......and also contradicts where it says in 1 Cor 15 that Jesus hands the kingdom back over to the Father at His coming....in other words His rule and reign ends then in a manner of speaking (notwithstanding that He is God)...and also contradicts where it says so shall we EVER be with the Lord when we are caught up to be with Him in the air.

Jesus does not hand back a burnt offering as you point out, that creation would all be burned up with nothing left to hand back.

I don't see the earth burned up, nor the vegetation and animals. I see the works of man all burned up. Sorry, no more computers and no more luxury. Food will be hard to come by. Humans will be hiding in caves and under the rubble of all the destroyed cities.

Unless Satan and company have made preparations deep under ground, they will not be able to turn things around and miraculously heal human government.

I am not a dispensational doctrine follower of the left behind series ideology.

Jesus as King of the entire earth and every nation does not even start until the 7th Trumpet sounds.

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

Jesus is on the earth way before the 7th Trumpet sounds. The 7th Trumpet is the wrap up of the Second Coming earthly ministry that started back in the 6th Seal.

 

[Earburner]

Or else we can consider that the rest of the dead will continue to live not again, for another Day of the Lord, even though many have received the first resurrection of physical life and have been physically enjoying Paradise since the Cross, 1994 years ago?

Why limit it to a single narrow view? It has been 2 days, not just one undefined day of indefinite time. The OT redeemed did experience the first resurrection which is physical.

Of course the NT believers have a part in the first resurrection. The thief next to Jesus on the Cross was the first NT convert, and physically entered Paradise that day via the first resurrection. None of those redeemed souls, since 30AD would ever taste death. One is immediately translated into a permanent incorruptible physical body, when the soul leaves this body of death.

Until you (and all here) answer my question about "a soul" in post #296, ALL interpretations of scripture, throughout the Bible, will continue to be affected by HOW one understands what "a soul" is.

BTW, you wrote in post #290: "The word immortal never points to a created human being in Scripture.".  It is apparent to me, that
you choose to ignore 1 Cor. 15:53-54, in my reply of #296.

 

[Earburner]

2 Peter 3
[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
[7] BUT the heavens and the earth, which are NOW, by the same word are KEPT IN STORE, RESERVED unto FIRE against the DAY of judgment and perdition [destruction] of ungodly men.

You didn't follow through with 2 Thes. 1:7-10 about (Eternal) Flaming Fire.

 

[ewq1938]

You didn't follow through with 2 Thes. 1:7-10 about (Eternal) Flaming Fire.

You have added to the scripture because it doesn't say eternal. It also does not say this is used as a weapon. He arrives in flaming fire which in the Greek is a flash of lightning. Jesus is in the lightning.

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

[Earburner]

You have added to the scripture because it doesn't say eternal. It also does not say this is used as a weapon. He arrives in flaming fire which in the Greek is a flash of lightning. Jesus is in the lightning.

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

So then the context of 2 Thes. 1:7-10 doesn't fit with the fact that "our God is a consuming fire", and that fire, is of His Eternal Self, WHEN He is revealed from heaven, with His mighty angels?
So, to put it together that our Savior is an Eternal, Immortal, consuming fire, I should look for someone else.....like you are?
Nope!

 

[ewq1938]

So then the context of 2 Thes. 1:7-10 doesn't fit with the fact that "our God is a consuming fire", and that fire, is of His Eternal Self, WHEN He is revealed from heaven, with His mighty angels?

Of course it doesn't fit. It says Jesus is IN the fire. How can that fire which is lightning be at all related to God being a consuming fire? Do you think Jesus is in consuming fire?

It is clearly as I have shown. Jesus comes in a flash of lightning matching what he already taught about his return. No scripture in any part of the bible shows Jesus using fire or lightning to kill people at the second coming. Stick to scripture and let go of these man made fictional events.

 

[Timtofly]

Pay attention to1 Cor. 15
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible [human] must put on incorruption, and this mortal [human] must put on IMMORTALITY.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

What type of "soul" are you talking about??
The eternal soul, as promoted by "church-ianity", or the mortal soul described in the Bible?

Did you know that how one understands the concept of "a soul", virtually affects every biblical topic??

The soul is everlasting, even in death.

The body of corruption is cast off, and replaced by the body of incorruption.

Death is cast off, and replaced by life. Do you understand what it means to put on life?

There is only one type of soul, you. Every soul is a unique you.

Many define the soul by the physical appearance of the human body, but only God can see the soul.

 

[Timtofly]

Until you (and all here) answer my question about "a soul" in post #296, ALL interpretations of scripture, throughout the Bible, will continue to be affected by HOW one understands what "a soul" is.

BTW, you wrote in post #290: "The word immortal never points to a created human being in Scripture.".  It is apparent to me, that
you choose to ignore 1 Cor. 15:53-54, in my reply of #296.

Immortality means life, not non death. You are interrupting another conversation about the Day of the Lord, not about the definition of the soul. The soul is not dead. The soul has put on a dead body. The soul has no spirit. That is why the soul has been given the Holy Spirit. But how you manipulate the Holy Spirit is how you define everything about life.

Putting on life is not becoming an immortal. Putting on life is becoming a son of God.

Does this verse say Adam was an immortal or a son of God: Luke 3:38

"Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God."

Adam was a son of God, until Adam disobeyed. Then Adam was the father of sin and death passed on to Seth. Genesis 5:1-3

"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image;"

Seth was not in God's image of life as a son of God. Seth was in Adam's dead corruptible image without a spirit, that is without life, mortal/death. Adam did die, because he lost God's image of life as a son of God, and was given the image of death, in a corruptible physical body. Adam was the soul. Adam was not the body and spirit.

Using the word human is not defining a particular state of being. The sons of God were humans. Adam was created on the 6th day, a human. Adamkind was the name God gave to the sons of God. Adamkind was and still is humankind. The sons of God left earth prior to the Flood, as they were never in a state of death. Their wicked offspring were destroyed in the Flood. Adam died prior to the Flood. Enoch as a son of Adam was translated out of death, back into a son of God and was no longer found on the earth. So God removed the sons of God prior to all the wickedness that their offspring were involved in. God never destroys His own along with the wicked, on a wholesale level.

 

[Timtofly]

So then the context of 2 Thes. 1:7-10 doesn't fit with the fact that "our God is a consuming fire", and that fire, is of His Eternal Self, WHEN He is revealed from heaven, with His mighty angels?
So, to put it together that our Savior is an Eternal, Immortal, consuming fire, I should look for someone else.....like you are?
Nope!

So then God is the LOF?

You don't make sense. Many say God is creation, and everything is God. They make more sense than you do.

God does exist within creation as three distinct persons. However creation is separate from God, as well as the LOF is separate from both creation and God. No I don't know how that works. It has not happened yet for humans to experience the LOF. That is the whole point of a future phenomenon.

When the LOF is experienced it will be experienced from outside of the LOF looking on, or inside the LOF, whatever that means. It is similar to, but not exactly like the sun. One does experience it from afar, looking on. One could attempt to experience it from the inside. They will still be in the LOF after a thousand years.

 

[Earburner]

Of course it doesn't fit. It says Jesus is IN the fire. How can that fire which is lightning be at all related to God being a consuming fire? Do you think Jesus is in consuming fire?

It is clearly as I have shown. Jesus comes in a flash of lightning matching what he already taught about his return. No scripture in any part of the bible shows Jesus using fire or lightning to kill people at the second coming. Stick to scripture and let go of these man made fictional events.

You seem to forget that God the Father, who is a Spirit only, and God the Son who is also Spirit, but now IN Immortal flesh, are together, being AS ONE BEING, of Whom is "the Comforter" of Their Holy Spirit, that is Freely given to us through faith. "Ye MUST BE born again" by the Holy Spirit.
Rom. 8:9

The Sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus (the Lamb OF God) is NOT ONLY for US, but also FOR THE Father Himself. Otherwise, God the Father Himself (a consuming FIRE) would NEVER be able to dwell/tabernacle WITHIN US ALONE.
If He did, WE WOULD immediately DIE.
Edit:
1Tim.6
[16] Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
2Tim.1
[10] But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:


Premillenial teachings, are causing you to be in darkness!

 

[Earburner]

The soul is everlasting, even in death.

That is the religious view of what a soul is. The Biblical view of a soul, is all beings who breathe "the breath of life", which is Oxygenated air.
KJV Gen. 2:7, 6:17, 7:15, 22.

The body of corruption is cast off, and replaced by the body of incorruption.

Yes, but only on the Day of Jesus' Glorious return from heaven.

Death is cast off, and replaced by life. Do you understand what it means to put oHeaven.

Yes! We who are born again do have the Gift of Eternal life by His Holy Spirit dwelling within us. 1 John 5:11-13. However, as of yet, no one except Jesus has been made Immortal. That is what we are waiting for.

There is only one type of soul, you. Every soul is a unique you.

Yes, we are all individuals in our minds, but collectively we all have inherited the same judgment that God pronounced upon Adam: "thou shalt surely die", which is nothing more than the absence of Eternal Life.

Many define the soul by the physical appearance of the human body, but only God can see the soul.

Biblically speaking, the soul is simply our brain, with living brain cells that are dependant upon living blood cells, carrying oxygen to the brain cells, of which causes and allows our brains to generate conscious thoughts. In that state of being, then as well as now, the Hebrew word for "soul" is "nephesh", which means "animal life".

 

[Timtofly]

You seem to forget that God the Father, who is a Spirit only, and God the Son who is also Spirit, but now IN Immortal flesh, are together, being AS ONE BEING, of Whom is "the Comforter" of Their Holy Spirit, that is Freely given to us through faith. "Ye MUST BE born again" by the Holy Spirit.
Rom. 8:9

The Sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus (the Lamb OF God) is NOT ONLY for US, but also FOR THE Father Himself. Otherwise, God the Father Himself (a consuming FIRE) would NEVER be able to dwell/tabernacle WITHIN US ALONE.
If He did, WE WOULD immediately DIE.
Edit:
1Tim.6
[16] Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
2Tim.1
[10] But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:


Premillenial teachings, are causing you to be in darkness!

This is not the standard trinity position. This post has nothing to do with pre-mill, but your own theological position on God.

 

[Earburner]

This is not the standard trinity position. This post has nothing to do with pre-mill, but your own theological position on God.

Jesus Ascended into Heaven bodily, yet after His resurrection, He entered into the upper room where the disciples were, with the doors shut, for fear of the Jews. Jesus then stood IN THE MIDST of them. He nor anyone else opened a door!
Jesus can be either Spirit or physical at will.

I am not here to argue the concept of "the Trinity"; so don't accuse me of violating a religious doctrine of understanding, when I haven't. I could put you in a similar situation, such as: who are they that shall make their abode within us? John 14:23.

 

[Timtofly]

That is the religious view of what a soul is. The Biblical view of a soul, is all beings who breathe "the breath of life", which is Oxygenated air.
KJV Gen. 2:7, 6:17, 7:15, 22.

No, that is the Biblical point of a soul. God formed all the sons of God as eternal souls, who put on a physical body, and then put on a spirit over the physical body.

Scripture points out a soul can die, but not spiritually nor physically pertaining to the spirit and body. The soul is destroyed in the LOF as the second death.

The death that Adam faced as a soul was loosing both the body and the spirit. But the physical part is what causes the soul to face the first death, the loss of the physical body. The first resurrection is the resurrection of the body.

Your view is the religious view including that of even pagans.

"the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal.
"they believe death is just one step in a soul's journey through the universe""

Your point: "everything that breathes air or oxygen."

Animals are not souls.

You are not saying humans are souls, but have a spiritual part and can breathe.

The only thing a human has, as separate from all of creation is that they are a soul. Even experiencing eternal death, is still having life, but in a state of death.

 

[Timtofly]

In that state of being, then as well as now, the Hebrew word for "soul" is "nephesh", which means "animal life".

Actually it means animated. The same root term (etymon) we get animal from as that which has life and shares this earth with us.

Animated does not mean animal as we define animal. Animated means we are free to move around instead of an immovable rock.

Anima: Latin for soul or life.

It is the difference between a puppet and a human. In Genesis it is God breathing, placing His Spirit into the image, of the dust, a puppet, robot, image, and giving that creation, life to move around and exist, without outside help for the most part. A baby is full of life but needs to develop before acting on internal volition.

Unless you claim the human is only the soul, you adhere to the popular human thought process, that the soul is just a spiritual or immaterial part of us. Such as the mind or will. The famous quote: "I think, therefore I am".

No! One has the God given ability to think, because they are a living soul, inside a body, and separated from their spirit, thus spiritually dead.

While it is true that to varying degrees all living things have the same ability to understand creation, and use that understanding to exist, that is different from the sons of God who are souls, with a body and spirit as their intended design.

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus Ascended into Heaven bodily, yet after His resurrection, He entered into the upper room where the disciples were, with the doors shut, for fear of the Jews. Jesus then stood IN THE MIDST of them. He nor anyone else opened a door!
Jesus can be either Spirit or physical at will.

I am not here to argue the concept of "the Trinity"; so don't accuse me of violating a religious doctrine of understanding, when I haven't. I could put you in a similar situation, such as: who are they that shall make their abode within us? John 14:23.

No, you are making a contrast between spirit and physical. There is no such contrast that allows "spiritual" to move through walls.

God can appear or disappear, just because God controls all aspects of creation.

God sitting on the GWT, has been a physical phenomenon since Genesis 1. We are just not allowed to see it, as God controls what we cannot see or can see. Luke 24:15-16

"And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. But their eyes were holden that they should not know him."

God can prevent us from seeing anything in creation that He does not want us to see. Satan can also be allowed to manipulate the mind and we see things that don't even exist, but we think they do. Then humans contrast spiritual against physical thinking they are at odds with each other.

It is sin and the state of death, that is at odds with obedience and life. Hence, Paul contrasts corruption with incorruption, and mortal with life.

 

[Earburner]

No, that is the Biblical point of a soul. God formed all the sons of God as eternal souls, who put on a physical body, and then put on a spirit over the physical body.

How do you fabricate that man was given an eternal soul, when both the KJV and the Catholic DR bibles say that "man became a living soul"? Gen. 2:7.
The words "given" and "Eternal" are not there.

Edit:
Do you not see "the gulf that is between us", simply by an erroneous interpretation from Gen. 2:7??
If such a critical error in reading the beginning of God's word is allowed, it contaminates virtually EVERY TOPIC of the Bible, right upto an understanding of the period of "a thousand years" of what that is about, and when.

I can easily relate that error of one having an Eternal soul to Gen. 3[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

 So then, if we don't learn the Truth in the beginning, but then foist a LIE right at the beginning, our understanding of what a soul is, will carry over right into the book of Revelation, contaminating ALL interpretations along the way.