The concept of predestination

[TonyChanYT]

Isaiah 14:

24 The LORD Almighty has sworn, “Surely, as I have planned, so it will be, and as I have purposed, so it will happen.

Romans 8:

29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

First and foremost, predestination is associated with God's foreknowledge.

Strong's 4309: To foreordain, predetermine, mark out beforehand. From pro and horizo; to limit in advance, i.e. predetermine.

HELPS Word-studies

4309 proorízō (from 4253 /pró, "before" and 3724 /horízō, "establish boundaries, limits") – properly, pre-horizon, pre-determine limits (boundaries) predestine.

G4309 occurs 6 times in the NT.

Acts 4:

27 for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.

Secondly, predestination is God's plans and decrees.

1 Corinthians 2:

7 But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed [G4309] before the ages for our glory.

How do you know who is predestined?

Only God knows.

How do you know if you are predestined?

The Paraclete will dwell in you.

Ephesians 1:

5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will

Predestination is related to God's foreknowledge and his sovereign will/plan over all people according to God's hidden wisdom. From my own personal experience, even years before I called myself a Christian, I believed that he was looking after me even though I didn't know him.

Now, does God predestine someone to hell?

I do not find that kind of wording in the Bible, that God predestines some to hell. However, we do have Jude 1:

4 Certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God.

2 Peter 2:

3 And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

The word for "condemnation" is G2917. It does not always refer to eternal condemnation.

There are two issues: (1) predestine someone to (2) eternal death. The lexical evidence is not that strong when I consider both issues simultaneously.

Some Calvinists overloaded the concept of double predestination by overgeneralizing some bible verses. When it comes to doctrines, it is better to stick closely to the wording in the Scripture according to the precision of the First-Order Logic.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Isaiah 14:


Romans 8:


First and foremost, predestination is associated with God's foreknowledge.

Strong's 4309: To foreordain, predetermine, mark out beforehand. From pro and horizo; to limit in advance, i.e. predetermine.

HELPS Word-studies


G4309 occurs 6 times in the NT.

Acts 4:


Secondly, predestination is God's plans and decrees.

1 Corinthians 2:


How do you know who is predestined?

Only God knows.

How do you know if you are predestined?

The Paraclete will dwell in you.

Ephesians 1:


Predestination is related to God's foreknowledge and his sovereign will/plan over all people according to God's hidden wisdom. From my own personal experience, even years before I called myself a Christian, I believed that he was looking after me even though I didn't know him.

Now, does God predestine someone to hell?

I do not find that kind of wording in the Bible, that God predestines some to hell. However, we do have Jude 1:


2 Peter 2:


The word for "condemnation" is G2917. It does not always refer to eternal condemnation.

There are two issues: (1) predestine someone to (2) eternal death. The lexical evidence is not that strong when I consider both issues simultaneously.

Some Calvinists overloaded the concept of double predestination by overgeneralizing some bible verses. When it comes to doctrines, it is better to stick closely to the wording in the Scripture according to the precision of the First-Order Logic.

Though I call myself a Calvinist of sorts, I agree with points you seem to be making here.

God does not predestine people to Hell. He foreknows the result of human failure in the matter of producing good children, and knows who, being born, will follow the path of failure. So God indulges mankind in their quest for independence from Him and from the consequent condemnation. He does not force them into choosing independence from Himself! He desires that *all* be saved, or at least come to the knowledge of the truth of Salvation.

One of my best friends in the world is my older brother. We have a close spiritual kinship. But on this matter we cannot talk. He abhors Calvinism even when he tries to talk kindly about it. It ends up in an angry feud. Calvinism tends to remove any sense of human freedom which I would agree is a repulsive thought. I don't at all agree with Fatalism.

So there are some subjects where I wish to maintain good relations with friends and brothers, and cannot discuss with them what divides us. There is a brother here who I've come to respect who I don't wish to discuss Amil vs Premil because it is too emotional. I prefer the friendship and the brotherhood over the discussion, unless of course God changes our hearts to be softer and kinder. That does not happen instantly!

 

[TonyChanYT]

I prefer the friendship and the brotherhood over the discussion

That's wise, brother, because you may see him in heaven

I try to listen to the other person's point of view objectively and then put a weight on it, instead of rejecting their view outright. When meaningful communication is not possible, i.e., when they do not understand what I am saying, let the guy have his last word and don't follow up.

Romans 12:18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.

 

[Randy Kluth]

That's wise, brother, because you may see him in heaven

I try to listen to the other person's point of view objectively and then put a weight on it, instead of rejecting their view outright. When meaningful communication is not possible, i.e., when they do not understand what I am saying, let the guy have his last word and don't follow up.

Romans 12:18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.

You must be my twin brother!

 

[Bob Estey]

Isaiah 14:


Romans 8:


First and foremost, predestination is associated with God's foreknowledge.

Strong's 4309: To foreordain, predetermine, mark out beforehand. From pro and horizo; to limit in advance, i.e. predetermine.

HELPS Word-studies


G4309 occurs 6 times in the NT.

Acts 4:


Secondly, predestination is God's plans and decrees.

1 Corinthians 2:


How do you know who is predestined?

Only God knows.

How do you know if you are predestined?

The Paraclete will dwell in you.

Ephesians 1:


Predestination is related to God's foreknowledge and his sovereign will/plan over all people according to God's hidden wisdom. From my own personal experience, even years before I called myself a Christian, I believed that he was looking after me even though I didn't know him.

Now, does God predestine someone to hell?

I do not find that kind of wording in the Bible, that God predestines some to hell. However, we do have Jude 1:


2 Peter 2:


The word for "condemnation" is G2917. It does not always refer to eternal condemnation.

There are two issues: (1) predestine someone to (2) eternal death. The lexical evidence is not that strong when I consider both issues simultaneously.

Some Calvinists overloaded the concept of double predestination by overgeneralizing some bible verses. When it comes to doctrines, it is better to stick closely to the wording in the Scripture according to the precision of the First-Order Logic.

I think the Lord is a good predictor of outcomes, but I don't think he knows ahead of time what decisions we are going to make. I don't believe in predestination.

 

[Scott Downey]

I think the Lord is a good predictor of outcomes, but I don't think he knows ahead of time what decisions we are going to make. I don't believe in predestination.

Oh surely Christ knows, He knows all men.
Before you were born, God wrote in his book all the days fashioned (made) for you, v16

Psalm 139

13 For You formed my inward parts;
You [f]covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for [g]I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15 My [h]frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.
17 How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!
How great is the sum of them!
18 If I should count them, they would be more in number than the sand;
When I awake, I am still with You.

 

[O'Darby]

I think the Lord is a good predictor of outcomes, but I don't think he knows ahead of time what decisions we are going to make. I don't believe in predestination.

Hey, someone who agrees with me - or at least appears to!

Whether God knows the decisions we will make is more an issue of foreknowledge than predestination. I have absolutely no problem with an omniscient God choosing to create beings with genuine libertarian free will and not knowing in advance the decisions they will make. I see no reason omniscience must extend to the decisions of beings with genuine free will. To me, this would make creation far more interesting and purposeful from God's perspective and would make the battle between God and Satan a real one and less of a cartoon. I believe that God's "omni" attributes include omni-creativity - the Supreme Artist. This perspective makes the creation a real work of art and less of a paint-by-numbers kit.

The conventional non-Calvinist understanding of predestination, not tied to foreknowledge but compatible with it, is that God predestined that all who turned to Christ would be saved. It's what's called "corporate predestination" - the entire Body of Christ will be saved. The predestining is that "all who turn to Christ will be saved" while the foreknowledge is of "those who will turn to Christ." Corporate predestination is entirely consistent with what I suggest in the above paragraph - all who turn to Christ will be saved, but God did not know in advance who that would be or whether it would be 10 milliion or 10 billion people.

I'm not steeped in Calvinist theology, but in Calvinism predestination is definiely not tied to God's foreknowledge. I found this to be a good explanation of the distinction: Foreknowledge And Predestination – A Calvinist Viewpoint | LearnTheology.com.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Isaiah 14:


Romans 8:


First and foremost, predestination is associated with God's foreknowledge.

Strong's 4309: To foreordain, predetermine, mark out beforehand. From pro and horizo; to limit in advance, i.e. predetermine.

HELPS Word-studies


G4309 occurs 6 times in the NT.

Acts 4:


Secondly, predestination is God's plans and decrees.

1 Corinthians 2:


How do you know who is predestined?

Only God knows.

How do you know if you are predestined?

The Paraclete will dwell in you.

Ephesians 1:


Predestination is related to God's foreknowledge and his sovereign will/plan over all people according to God's hidden wisdom. From my own personal experience, even years before I called myself a Christian, I believed that he was looking after me even though I didn't know him.

Now, does God predestine someone to hell?

I do not find that kind of wording in the Bible, that God predestines some to hell. However, we do have Jude 1:


2 Peter 2:


The word for "condemnation" is G2917. It does not always refer to eternal condemnation.

There are two issues: (1) predestine someone to (2) eternal death. The lexical evidence is not that strong when I consider both issues simultaneously.

Some Calvinists overloaded the concept of double predestination by overgeneralizing some bible verses. When it comes to doctrines, it is better to stick closely to the wording in the Scripture according to the precision of the First-Order Logic.

Gods foreknowledge is based on Gods plan and not mans decision. We derive our word prognosis from pro-ginosko. Doctors can give a prgnosis based on what they know and do, and not the patients decisions.

predestination covers both Gods plan and Gods elect individuals , they are predestinated as individuals into the plan God predestinated. It is not either/or but both/and.

 

[Ritajanice]

Bible verses related to Predestination from the King James Version (KJV) by Relevance​

- Sort By Book Order




Ephesians 1:4-5 - According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: (Read More...)

Romans 8:28-30 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. (Read More...)

Ephesians 1:5 - Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

John 15:16 - Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Romans 8:29 - For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Timothy 1:9 - Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

John 6:44 - No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Peter 1:20 - Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Ephesians 1:11-12 - In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: (Read More...)

Acts 13:48 - And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Proverbs 16:4 - The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Ephesians 1:4 - According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Revelation 13:8 - And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Scott Downey]

Rev 17
7 But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the [c]mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to [d]perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and [e]yet is.

 

[Scott Downey]

Phillipians 1
27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God. 29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.

 

[Scott Downey]

God granted to you your belief in Christ.
Salvation is by the mercy of God for you in particular

Titus tells us about those who are born again by the Spirit, it is they who will inherit salvation, no one else will.

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

After God made you born again, then you believed in Christ and are that new creation in Christ.
Being born again is like as the wind of God blowing on a person according to His will for them.
It simply just happens, not by your will or desire. So it is with all who are born of God's Spirit.
Only then have you become a member of His family.

John 3
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

 

[Behold]

God granted to you your belief in Christ.

God offers Christ, as Salvation.

What you do with that offer, , is your choice.

Just as Joshua said...."CHOOSE This day, whom you will serve".

Jesus says, ALL that call on me, ALL that believe in me......i will give eternal life.

Joshua had Free Will to DECIDE whom He was going to serve.
ALL people who are alive and breathing right now... have the God given Free Will option, to BELIEVE in Jesus, or not.

God does not Choose Christ for you.
God offer Christ to you.

YOU Decide.

 

[Scott Downey]

God offers Christ, as Salvation.

What you do with that offer, , is your choice.

Just as Joshua said...."CHOOSE This day, whom you will serve".

Jesus says, ALL that call on me, ALL that believe in me......i will give eternal life.

Joshua had Free Will to DECIDE whom He was going to serve.
ALL people who are alive and breathing right now... have the God given Free Will option, to BELIEVE in Jesus, or not.

God does not Choose Christ for you.
God offer Christ to you.

YOU Decide.

Study what 'grant' means in scripture.
Then you will see clearly this is God's decision.
Salvation is a gift, granted to those who ask.
But not all ask do they. The reason they do not ask or seek God is they are not born again, not spiritually minded.
You get that mind from God, it is not of yourself. So ultimately God's decision to whom He reveals Himself.
You can't even come to Christ unless God grants that to you.
Without Him you can do nothing.
So who then comes to Christ, only those He grants it to as His gift. And the gift is unearned, and undeserved.
Since not all come to Christ. God has not granted that all come to salvation, even though He commands all men repent and believe what He says.
God grants some to repentance, 2 Timothy 2

24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

Matthew 20:21
And He said to her, “What do you wish?” She said to Him, “Grant that these two sons of mine may sit, one on Your right hand and the other on the left, in Your kingdom.”

Mark 10:37
They said to Him, “Grant us that we may sit, one on Your right hand and the other on Your left, in Your glory.”

John 6:65
And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”


Acts 3:14
But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you,

Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Revelation 6:4
Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.

2 Timothy 1:16
The Lord grant mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain;

2 Timothy 1:18
The Lord grant to him that he may find mercy from the Lord in that Day—and you know very well how many ways he ministered to me at Ephesus.

Acts 14:3
Therefore they stayed there a long time, speaking boldly in the Lord, who was bearing witness to the word of His grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands.

Philippians 1:29
For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

 

[Behold]

Study what 'grant' means in scripture.

"Grant" means to allow.

God allows ALLto have free will to decide what they will do next.

@Scott Downey ... have you ever purchased someone a Christmas Present, or a Birthday gift?

Did you choose the gift or did Calvin predestine you to TULIP IT ???

You have to THINK.

Understand?

God Granted ADAM the free will to chose to disobey...
He did. He chose it. This is "rebellion", and its a personal choice.

And that "allowing" allows "ALL who will believe in Jesus".....to be saved.

God also ALLOWS you (Grants) you free will = to not chose to believe, and Hell is waiting for those.

John 3:36

Calvin taught "ALLOW".... as "pre-destine".

Calvin taught "for-knowing", as "to cause'" )pre-destine.

Don't believe this lie(s), as Calvin is a devil, and his theology is full of the Devil.

 

[Scott Downey]

Scripture is the truth, and it clearly states no one seeks for God.
So that for anyone to believe, God goes and gets them Himself.
Meaning it is His decision alone to grant to whom He will repentance to the faith
and salvation in Christ alone, apart from the creature's will.

10 As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13 “Their throat is an open [d]tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become [e]guilty before God.

Anyone who says they came to faith in Christ without the direct intervention of God on their behalf does not know the scriptures at best, and at worst is trying to deceive you about God and eternal life.

John 1 tells us we were born not according to the will of the man. And that those who did receive Him were (had been born) of God.
Jesus even tells us in John 3, you must be born again to see the kingdom of God, which you won't be seeing if you're not born of God first.
If you won't see it, you won't have an understanding to believe in Christ and you will not come to Christ.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own,[b] and his own people[c] did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

 

[Behold]

Scripture is the truth, and it clearly states no one seeks for God.

"All have sinned". and that is why God sent Jesus, for us ALL.

"Jesus came into the world to SAVE SINNERS">.. and "ALL ALL ALL HAVE Sinned".



Calvin, decided, and TULIP decided that God's Salvation, denies God's NT.

The reason that Calvinism, is the worst doctrine of Devils, other then Islam, is because the other cults... even "the cult of the Virgin" do not try to deny that the Cross is for everyone.

So, TULIP, that Limits the Cross to "some".... is the worst doctrine of Devils, because it denies The Gift of God, by reducing it to "only for some"., and then makes this worse by teaching that "Faith" itself, can't be Free Will.

So, Hyper Calvinism, T.U.L.I.P... (Hyper-Calvinism)..., is a Spiritual and Theological CANCER on the Body of Christ., and its the same regarding a "Christian" forum. @Scott Downey

 

[Ritajanice]

God granted to you your belief in Christ.
Salvation is by the mercy of God for you in particular

Philippians 1:29​

“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;”

 

[Behold]

Philippians 1:29​

“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him,

John 3:16

"Jesus came into the world to save sinners"....... not make sinners believe.

but also to suffer for his sake;”

Everyone who is born again, is going to have Tribulation in a world that is anti-Christ.

Its automatic.

 

[Ritajanice]

Spiritual Blessings
…10as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ. 11In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel ofHis will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, would be for the praise of His glory.

Short commentary.

Romans 8:29-30 tells us, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Ephesians 1:5 and 11 declare, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.” Many people have a strong hostility to the doctrine of predestination. However, predestination is a biblical doctrine