The Most Disturbing Verse: Giving Into The Adversary's Demands

[VictoryinJesus]

In today's devotional reading, I came across this verse.

31 “Shim‘on, Shim‘on, listen! The Adversary demanded to have you people for himself, to sift you like wheat!
Luke 22:31 (CJB)

According to the NSRV, parallel verses are found at Job 1:6-12, Am 9:9. I find the notion of the LORD giving into the Adversary profoundly disturbing. Please help me come to terms with this.

you never responded but do you not see a commonality? Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

1 Timothy 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Philemon 1:14-16 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly. [15] For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever; [16] Not now as a servant, but above a servant, a brother beloved, specially to me, but how much more unto thee, both in the flesh, and in the Lord?

 

[Wrangler]

you never responded but do you not see a commonality? Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient

I'm focusing on what is different. The difference is the other verses refer to God and his children. The verse in the OP refer to Satan.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I'm focusing on what is different. The difference is the other verses refer to God and his children. The verse in the OP refer to Satan.

wish I could help but I’m not sure what you are asking. I think of Paul where he said we have all had our conversation in the world, after the lust of the flesh. Were we not all turned over to that reprobate mind that we might learn who is King, who is the Lord? The difference to me(not saying you agree) is when he asked Peter “who do you say I Am?” His ‘despise not chastening and correction’ but know all things work ‘together’ for the good? As in we can do nothing(have no power) against the truth but [only given power] for the truth. Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

1 Peter 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye ; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
Consider the difference: on their part he is evil spoken of...but on your part he is glorified.
Peter given over to satan ‘for a season’ yet “when you return to Me Peter, strengthen your brothers” the season for bearing Fruit, for He will not leave us Fruitless nor barren?! In the knowledge of Christ 2 Peter 1:7-11 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. [8] For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [9] But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. [10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: [11] For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.



Proverbs 3:9-11 Honour the Lord with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: [10] So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine. [11] My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord ; neither be weary of his correction:

 

[TLHKAJ]

Luke 22:31-32 “Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”

Thank you for quoting this verse as you did here. I hate using versions of the Bible that deliberately delete key important portions of the Word!!

 

[TLHKAJ]

It is a curiosity as to why God cast Lucifer from heaven after Lucifer led the war there instead of just destroying him.

And in Job Lucifer was let to bring trials onto Job and with God's permission. Just to test Job's faith.
Wouldn't God already know Job would stay faithful?
And why does God let Lucifer come back into heaven?

Luke 22:31, could the sifting like wheat of the apostles have occured when we're told all but John were martyred?

His foreknowledge doesn't negate the necessity of the actual process of being tested. Trial by fire is like the process of purifying gold. The impurities are there until the fire comes to burn them away.

 

[Amazed@grace]

His foreknowledge doesn't negate the necessity of the actual process of being tested. Trial by fire is like the process of purifying gold. The impurities are there until the fire comes to burn them away.

Isn't God that holy fire?
Why test us? When we live within the sovereign omniscient presence of the creator of it all? God created Lucifer, remember.

 

[Wrangler]

Isn't God that holy fire?
Why test us?

I don't mind being tested. Giving in to the demands of the Adversary cannot be wise for people. We are trying to live Godly lives and this verse Luke 22:31 indicates God is giving in to the demands of the Adversary. Disturbing.

 

[Amazed@grace]

I don't mind being tested. Giving in to the demands of the Adversary cannot be wise for people. We are trying to live Godly lives and this verse Luke 22:31 indicates God is giving in to the demands of the Adversary. Disturbing.

Agreed. If we look at it in that way.
Maybe consider it as a type of test, or game, between Lucifer, who can do nothing without sovereign father's allowance, and God.
Lucifer is our adversary. But God's agent. Which is why he returns to heaven from time to time.
If he were God's adversary, would that be allowed?

God let him live for a reason.

 

[Pearl]

1 Peter 1:6-8
In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,

 

[kcnalp]

I don't mind being tested. Giving in to the demands of the Adversary cannot be wise for people. We are trying to live Godly lives and this verse Luke 22:31 indicates God is giving in to the demands of the Adversary. Disturbing.

God disturbs you? That would be your problem, not God's.

 

[Wrangler]

God disturbs you? That would be your problem, not God's.

<sigh> No. Why is giving into the Adversary’s demands a good thing?

 

[Waiting on him]

In today's devotional reading, I came across this verse.

31 “Shim‘on, Shim‘on, listen! The Adversary demanded to have you people for himself, to sift you like wheat!
Luke 22:31 (CJB)

According to the NSRV, parallel verses are found at Job 1:6-12, Am 9:9. I find the notion of the LORD giving into the Adversary profoundly disturbing. Please help me come to terms with this.

Matthew 5:25 KJV
[25] Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
I don’t see why you’re having such a hard time with this?

 

[Waiting on him]

<sigh> No. Why is giving into the Adversary’s demands a good thing?

Because it manifests Christ.

 

[Amazed@grace]

I'm focusing on what is different. The difference is the other verses refer to God and his children. The verse in the OP refer to Satan.

Satan can do nothing without God allowing it.
Job 1


Daniel 4:17 This decision is the decree of the watchers, the verdict declared by the holy ones, so that the living will know that the Most High rules over the kingdom of mankind and gives it to whom He wishes, setting over it the lowliest of men.'


John 5:19
We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

 

[kcnalp]

Satan can do nothing without God allowing it.

Bingo!

 

[Wrangler]

I don’t see why you’re having such a hard time with this?

Well, if you weren’t so entrenched in that archaic translation, you’d realize settling a court case is hardly a comparison to demonic attack and testing.

 

[Wrangler]

Satan can do nothing without God allowing it.
Job 1

If that were true, Satan couldn’t have rebelled in the first place, right?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If that were true, Satan couldn’t have rebelled in the first place, right?

Romans 8:2 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

When was the creature subjected to vanity, not willing but by reason of him ...who is the “him”?

the him who has subjected the same in hope?

 

[Amazed@grace]

If that were true, Satan couldn’t have rebelled in the first place, right?

I would say Lucifer was allowed free thought. Which could be what led to the rebellion.Thinking he would be a better god than God?

But, isn't his rebellion and the 1/3rd of the angels that joined him to create war in heaven presenting a two fold conundrum?

Satan and that 1/3rd of the angels sinned against God. How does sin exist in heavens paradise?

 

[Wrangler]

I would say Lucifer was allowed free thought. Which could be what led to the rebellion.Thinking he would be a better god than God?

Rebellion is not mere thought but acting against the authority.

But, isn't his rebellion and the 1/3rd of the angels that joined him to create war in heaven presenting a two fold conundrum?

Satan and that 1/3rd of the angels sinned against God. How does sin exist in heavens paradise?

I've recently thought of this also. We tend to think that sin cannot exist in heaven but the story of 1/3 of the angels rebelling refute this. Also, unlike us here on Earth who are forced to rely on faith, the angels KNOW God exists. Yet, they still rebelled.