Nothing is wrong with the use of reward...that's my point; but you had a problem with it, and called it a gift before....
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And while Paul is a master of the OT, before he was converted, why did he missed the Messiah? But after he was converted and believed in Jesus Christ, he began to see the OT in the light of the NT, not the other way around.
No need of ad hominems. They don’t add anything good to your argument. It only shows the weakness of it.
Now, no one is denying that the OT has light, for we see a shadow. What I am saying is that the NT, unlike the shadow, is the light itself. Jesus is clearly portrayed as the true light and is the way the truth and the life. So, if any one want to the way, Jesus. If any one want to know the truth, Jesus. If any one want to have life, Jesus.
Tong
R3076
But will they Know it? You only know what you have when you walk in it.
Behold
Well-Known Member
You have an interesting opinion.
Theologically, its not related to NT Christianity, but, i dont think you are concerned with this reality.
I think when you started posting to me, you were trying to show us why you have issues with God keeping a person saved, forever, using the Blood of Jesus. However, your verses had nothing to do with anything you were trying to prove.
So, thats about it.
How about this one...Anyone that does righteous is acceptable to Him...
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
ACTS 10:35
Behold
Well-Known Member
You are saying that trying to be good, is "walking in the Spirit"?
That your self effort to not sin again, is "walking in the Spirit"?
Perhaps you believe that using a "prayer language" is "walking in the Spirit"?
Well, i can assure you that "presenting your body a living sacrifice", and "mortifying your members", and "trying to abide in the vine", is not how you "walk in the Spirit".
And once you understand that "walking in the Spirit" is not anything to do with trying to be a good Christian......you'll have taken your first step toward understanding how the Grace of God is the only provision for "walking in the Spirit".
No, the NT does not direct me to the OT. The NT shed light to the OT, not the other way around. I preach Jesus Christ, the gospel that the apostles preached. They did not preach Moses or the Law or the OT.
Tong
R3077
I have told you my view and arguments about this matter. I think we will just have to agree to disagree. If you think it is not a mistake in having the shadow shed light on the light, then I will just have to accept that is with you.
So I will just move on have the NT and Jesus Christ shed light on the Ot shadows and you just move on have the OT shadow shed light on the NT lights and Jesus Christ.
Tong
R3078
Nobody is diminishing the OT’s importance to the NT partakers. We know what Paul said to Timothy concerning scriptures.
<<<The reason God gave the Old Covenant Scriptures was to foretell and explain the New Covenant. >>>
Foreshadow and foretell yes. But not explain. For the NT is that which explains the OT, even bring it to light. That now, those who read the OT scriptures could understand it of a degree higher than when the NT is not yet.
Tong
R3079
Didn’t call reward a gift before. Never. And have no problem with the word either.
Tong
R3080
Perhaps that is the case with you, not with me.
I know it now. Now that God had told me in scriptures. I take His words to be both true and real.
Tong
R3081
"Tong2020, post: 1010309, member: 8685"]Does it not tell you that Christians were chosen in Christ before they even actually existed? Why? That they should be holy and without blame before Him in love. How? The next verse in that passages tells us and I quote “having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself”. To what end ? And the next verse tells us “according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace,”.
Corlovewhat that means in this context....in my interpretation is: Is there was a body ready before the foundation....Christ/spiritual
And therefore anyone found in Him are positioned through that seed to conform to that image . Another words God had a plan...Christ the Risen. So anyone in Him Is chosen b4 the foundation because Christ was Chosen for them.
So, we see that there are those whom God had chosen from among mankind in Christ Jesus, even before the foundation of the world for His good pleasure and to His praise. They are the Christians, those born of God, those He created in Christ Jesus.
Refer to my 1st interpretation
Well, we are not concerned of what it does not say.
I am concerned about what it does not say
because everything from start to finish is not in every passage
Does it not tell you that the Christians, even before the time that they were converted and do good works thereafter, they were already made alive, raised up and made to sit together in the heavenly places with Christ Jesus? Yes it does tells us that.
That's the way you see it
It’s then a matter of time that these things will unfold. Clearly and without question, as the passage says, by grace they have been saved. This was repeated by Paul in verse 8.
What is the Grace? And what is one saved from for?
The grace shown is that we Cannot make ourselves alive.....And living soberly and righteously in this world is not without the Spirit.
The question is not WHY but WHEN. And the passage tells us, and I quote “when we were dead in trespasses,“. It was not after one believed but before, even while we were yet sinners. But to be more specific, it was when Jesus died and when He was raised up and when He ascended back to heaven and sit at the right hand of God. So for the Christians after those events up to today, those things already were done concerning them and only unfolds in their time.
I totally disagree here because Even Peter had to recognize who the Son was....And Jesus's answer of How Jesus was revealed to Him was by The Father....
Perhaps. But even ignorance would not change what truth is revealed in Eph.1:4, Eph.2:4-6. Not one’s will nor anything can change that. At least according to my understanding of the nature and character of God.
Refer to first comments....
Tong
R3064
Corlovewhat that means in this context....in my interpretation is: Is there was a body ready before the foundation....Christ/spiritual
And therefore anyone found in Him are positioned through that seed to conform to that image . Another words God had a plan...Christ the Risen. So anyone in Him Is chosen b4 the foundation because Christ was Chosen for them.
So, we see that there are those whom God had chosen from among mankind in Christ Jesus, even before the foundation of the world for His good pleasure and to His praise. They are the Christians, those born of God, those He created in Christ Jesus.
Refer to my 1st interpretation
Well, we are not concerned of what it does not say.
I am concerned about what it does not say
because everything from start to finish is not in every passage
Does it not tell you that the Christians, even before the time that they were converted and do good works thereafter, they were already made alive, raised up and made to sit together in the heavenly places with Christ Jesus? Yes it does tells us that.
That's the way you see it
It’s then a matter of time that these things will unfold. Clearly and without question, as the passage says, by grace they have been saved. This was repeated by Paul in verse 8.
What is the Grace? And what is one saved from for?
The grace shown is that we Cannot make ourselves alive.....And living soberly and righteously in this world is not without the Spirit.
The question is not WHY but WHEN. And the passage tells us, and I quote “when we were dead in trespasses,“. It was not after one believed but before, even while we were yet sinners. But to be more specific, it was when Jesus died and when He was raised up and when He ascended back to heaven and sit at the right hand of God. So for the Christians after those events up to today, those things already were done concerning them and only unfolds in their time.
I totally disagree here because Even Peter had to recognize who the Son was....And Jesus's answer of How Jesus was revealed to Him was by The Father....
Perhaps. But even ignorance would not change what truth is revealed in Eph.1:4, Eph.2:4-6. Not one’s will nor anything can change that. At least according to my understanding of the nature and character of God.
Refer to first comments....
Tong
R3064
If you want to understand the new you must go to the old.....That's what Hebrews does.
The writer bring ideals parallel. So that is the way to go.
No it's not.....
Because you are given the Spirit so that you walk by it.......
So to say it's a "nice one" is to deny the passage Gal 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
So it is not what you are doing alone by your natural ability........It's about becoming the type of person that's deeds REFLECT what is inside.
You cant do nothing without God
And you will definitely do nothing by yourself
Sorry lost the conversation
Judges 7:5
So he brought down the people unto the water: and the LORD said unto Gideon, Every one that lappeth of the water with his tongue, as a dog lappeth, him shalt thou set by himself; likewise every one that boweth down upon his knees to drink.
This is Election....
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