OSAS from the Gnostics

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Dash RipRock

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The Ancient Doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved”

We all know people who believe the doctrine of “Once saved, always saved.” This is the idea that once a person becomes a child of God, there is no sin that they can commit to lose their salvation. Many people today find this doctrine to be of great comfort, because it in essence relieves them of all personal responsibility in their relationship with God. After all, if I am saved, and there is nothing that I can do to be lost, then it doesn’t really matter how I behave or act, so I need not worry that much about it. The truth is that this is a most dangerous doctrine when it comes to matters of religion, because it deceives people into thinking that their relationship with God is secure, when it really is not.

Interestingly enough, this false doctrine has been around for quite a long time. In fact, early Christians had to deal with it in the 1st and 2nd centuries. During that period of time, there was a false doctrine known as Gnosticism. Of the Gnostics, one sect taught the doctrine of once saved, always saved. A Christian named Irenaeus lived during the 2nd century A.D. (130-202). He wrote a book titled, “Against Heresies” in which he called attention to this particular fact. In this work (Book I Chapter 6) he said the following regarding Gnostic teaching:

But as to themselves, they hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. For, just as it is impossible that material substance should partake of salvation (since, indeed, they maintain that it is incapable of receiving it), so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption, whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. For even as gold, when submersed in filth, loses not on that account its beauty, but retains its own native qualities, the filth having no power to injure the gold, so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance, whatever the material actions in which they may be involved.

Wherefore also it comes to pass, that the “most perfect” among them addict themselves without fear to all those kinds of forbidden deeds of which the Scriptures assure us that “they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”

And committing many other abominations and impieties, they run us down (who from the fear of God guard against sinning even in thought or word) as utterly contemptible and ignorant persons, while they highly exalt themselves, and claim to be perfect, and the elect seed. For they declare that we simply receive grace for use, wherefore also it will again be taken away from us; but that they themselves have grace as their own special possession, which has descended from above by means of an unspeakable and indescribable conjunction; and on this account more will be given them.

Now, let’s compare what was stated regarding Gnosticism with some more recent quotes. Notice the following quotation from Billy Graham in answer to the question, “Will I lose my salvation if I sin?”

When we do sin, God does not reject us or disown us. Our fellowship with Him may be broken, but our relationship is not; we are still members of His family if we have truly committed our lives to Christ”

(h**p://www.billygraham.org/qna/qna.asp?i=484)

In response to another question, “How big a sin do you have to commit before you lose your salvation?” Billy Graham said:

I am convinced that once a person sincerely and honestly trusts Christ for his or her salvation, they become a member of God’s family forever — and nothing can change that relationship.

(h**p://www.billygraham.org/qna/qna.asp?i=1777)

Edward Hiscox in “The Standard Manual for Baptist Churches” says it this way:

We believe that the scriptures teach that such as are truly regenerate, being born of the Spirit, will not utterly fall away and perish, but will endure unto the end; that their persevering attachment to Christ is the grand mark which distinguishes them from superficial professors; that a special Providence watches over their welfare; and that they are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation (Hiscox, pg. 67, 1939).

The Westminster Confession of Faith states regarding the perseverance of the saints:

I. They whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.

II. This perseverance of the saints depends, not upon their own free-will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ; the abiding of the Spirit and of the seed of God within them; and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.

III. Nevertheless they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevelancy of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their perseverance, fall into grievous sins; and for a time continue therein: whereby they incur God’s displeasure, and grieve his Holy Spirit; come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts; have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.

The point of these quotations is not to prove that Calvinists teach this doctrine, because they freely admit it. The point is to show the similarities between what the Gnostics taught and what Calvinists teach. There are some differences, but the essence of the teaching is the same.

If a person is saved, it is not by means of his own conduct, but on account of his nature. While Gnostics and Calvinists differ in the origin of that nature, the doctrine is still the same. Gnostics say that it is due to a special spiritual nature. Calvinists say that they are infused by the nature of Christ.
One is saved on account of one’s election to be saved. The Gnostics said that they were of the “elect seed.” Calvinists say that they are elected by God. Both agree that being elected precludes their actions from affecting that election in a negative way.

While one may willfully sin in the flesh, that does not affect the relationship that one has to God and salvation. The third part of the Westminster Confession of Faith (as quoted above) makes it plain that Christians may even live in sinfulness, yet not affect their salvation. The Gnostics just went one step further and stated that it was their desire and practice to do so.

Grace overcomes all sins regardless of the individual’s attitude toward sin. Calvinists state that grace is irresistible and the Christian cannot help but fall under it. Gnostics say that regardless how much sin they willingly commit, grace flows upon them freely for every sin they commit.

Both agree that there is nothing that can cause the one who is saved to lose their salvation. Gnostics take this to the ultimate conclusion and pursue their own lusts and passions without constraint. Calvinists, however, take another approach. They say that the Christian who is saved generally won’t choose to live like that, even though if they did, they couldn’t lose their salvation. In essence giving mere lip service to practicing righteousness.

The parallels are striking. How many times have we heard the person who believes in this doctrine of “once saved, always saved” say that the child of God cannot fall from grace? How many times have we heard those who believe this doctrine say that the child of God cannot lose their spirituality? How many times have we heard them say that the child of God cannot sin in such a way so as to lose his salvation? The similarities between this form of Gnosticism and the doctrine of “Once saved, always saved” are too numerous to ignore.

It was indeed the teaching and practice of the apostles to reject the doctrines of Gnosticism, including this doctrine. The book of Colossians was written by Paul in rejection of Gnosticism. John’s account of the gospel of Christ and his epistle of 1 John were also written as a response to the doctrines of Gnosticism, and particularly, 1 John was written to refute the idea of once saved, always saved. One cannot honestly read through this book and ignore that conclusion. In addition, the following passages in the New Testament clearly indicate that Christians may sin so as to fall from grace: Galatians 5:4; Hebrews 6:4-6; Hebrews 10:26; 2 Peter 2:20-22.

If you know of someone who believes this doctrine, then I urge you to take this article to them, invite them to study it with you and help them to come to understand that believing this doctrine is not in harmony with God’s word. If one truly believes this doctrine they will be eternally lost, because they will not regard sin as the awful and terrible thing that it truly is. A Christian may be forgiven after having committed sin based upon repentance and confession, but one will not be forgiven while actively pursuing a life of sin. Yes, friends, the Christian can so sin as to fall from grace.
 

Helen

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Agree , that those who teach that OSAS means - * that once saved you can live how you like . Obviously didn’t really get saved , if they had , their heart would have been touched and changed forever !
A Face to Face with Jesus , changes a person. And they see the depth of Grace .

So , if that is what some teach ( which sounds more like Calvinism to me ) then they have no grasp on the Price of salvation or what Grace means .
 
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Dash RipRock

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Obviously didn’t really get saved

But some did actually get saved.

God's warnings are to those that got saved and then turned way

Here's a warning speaking to "brethren" (actual Christians)

James 5:19,20 - Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Agree , that those who teach that OSAS means - * that once saved you can live how you like . Obviously didn’t really get saved , if they had , their heart would have been touched and changed forever !
A Face to Face with Jesus , changes a person. And they see the depth of Grace .

So , if that is what some teach ( which sounds more like Calvinism to me ) then they have no grasp on the Price of salvation or what Grace means .
all things are lawful, but not all things are profitable

can you explain these words of paul for me?

can any Anti OSAS person explain these words?
 

Eternally Grateful

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But some did actually get saved.

God's warnings are to those that got saved and then turned way

Here's a warning speaking to "brethren" (actual Christians)

James 5:19,20 - Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
um no, A licentious person (which is what a gnositc person was) is not saved, Peter rebuked them, Jude rebuked them, James rebuked them
 

Behold

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James 5:19,20 - Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

You verse is not talking about a Christian........as James defines them as a SINNER.
So, an Apostle knows that a SINNER is not a Christian.......and we are to "convert" a SINNER...

This means to lead them to Jesus for Salvation......as that is "conversion" from "sinner" to "born again Christian".
 

Dash RipRock

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You verse is not talking about a Christian........as James defines them as a SINNER.

It's clearly speaking of a Christian who turned away from the Lord back in to sin and had become a SINNER once again.

James 5:19,20 - Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

This is spoken to BRETHREN, so ya gotta accept ALL of what this verse is saying - such as if any of you do err from the truth

Notice it says IF ANY ONE OF YOU DO ERR FROM THE TRUTH which is speaking to someone who once was in the Truth and then went in to error turning away from the Truth

Here's a couple of more warnings written to Christians just like James 5:19,20 is written to Christians:

1 Timothy 4:1,2 - Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

The phrase "depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place - this is very clearly speaking to Christians showing that some do fall away and are no longer saved.

2 Timothy 4:3,4 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Here's another one the proves a Christian can fall away and no longer be saved:

2 Peter 2:20 - For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

The phrase "they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ" is very clearly speaking about someone who has been born again - and when they turn away they are worse than they were before they were before getting born again!

That's what's wrong with people who have been indoctrinated with the false eternal security teaching is the devil has tricked them in to not accepting all the Lord says in His Word. That's why they are deceived.
 

Behold

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It's clearly speaking of a Christian who turned away from the Lord back in to sin and had become a SINNER once again.

A Christian, can't become a "sinner".

2 Reasons.

1.) "where there is no Law, there is no SIN"....... = "The born again are not under the law, but under Grace".

Why?

"Because Jesus is the END OF THE LAW.......for Righteousness, for everyone who believes".

2.) To become a sinner, as a Christian........God would have to charge the born again with sin, = that is defined by the Law......and the Law is ended = regarding the Believer. (as i just explained).

2 Corin 5:19..."God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, = not charging their sin unto them;"""

Roman 4:8.....>>"Blessed is the person to whom God will not charge sin"...

So, who is that?

That is the Born again Christian.....= who is "not under the law"..... who is..."Forgiven their sin".....and so......."God will not charge sin "..
 

Dash RipRock

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A Christian, can't become a "sinner".

Sure they can, God's Word contains warnings about it.

Deception runs rampant now days, especially among the eternal security crowd who have been deceived in to NOT believing all the Lord teaches in His Word.

1.) "where there is no Law, there is no SIN"....... = "The born again are not under the law, but under Grace".

Actually we are under the Law of Christ and not being under condemnation is only applicable to those who walk after the Holy Spirit not after the flesh.

Rmans 8:1 - There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:13,14 - For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Those walking after the flesh are back under condemnation and need to confess and forsake their sins to have mercy and once again be in right standing with the Lord.
Proverbs 28:13 - He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Roman 4:8.....>>"Blessed is the person to whom God will not charge sin"...

So you think Christians can go ahead and live in sin and God just doesn't see it?

That;s mocking God!

Galatians 6:7-8 - Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

This is how the eternal security crowd turns the grace of God in to lasciviousness the Lord warned about in Jude 1:4
 

Behold

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Sure they can, God's Word contains warnings about it.

You can't stop being born again.

Learn what that means.......as you have no idea that this is Eternal Life.

The reason you believe you can lose your Salvation, is because you dont Trust Christ to keep you saved.
So, You're trying to do it, because you're a "fallen from Grace' = Legalist. @Dash RipRock

Listen.........Eternal Life is not Temporary, and every Born again Christian, has Eternal Life IN THEM.....who is JESUS.
He's not going anywhere, and the born again are already "seated in heavenly places, in Christ".
 
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ScottA

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The Ancient Doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved”

We all know people who believe the doctrine of “Once saved, always saved.” This is the idea that once a person becomes a child of God, there is no sin that they can commit to lose their salvation. Many people today find this doctrine to be of great comfort, because it in essence relieves them of all personal responsibility in their relationship with God. After all, if I am saved, and there is nothing that I can do to be lost, then it doesn’t really matter how I behave or act, so I need not worry that much about it. The truth is that this is a most dangerous doctrine when it comes to matters of religion, because it deceives people into thinking that their relationship with God is secure, when it really is not.

Interestingly enough, this false doctrine has been around for quite a long time. In fact, early Christians had to deal with it in the 1st and 2nd centuries. During that period of time, there was a false doctrine known as Gnosticism. Of the Gnostics, one sect taught the doctrine of once saved, always saved. A Christian named Irenaeus lived during the 2nd century A.D. (130-202). He wrote a book titled, “Against Heresies” in which he called attention to this particular fact. In this work (Book I Chapter 6) he said the following regarding Gnostic teaching:

But as to themselves, they hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. For, just as it is impossible that material substance should partake of salvation (since, indeed, they maintain that it is incapable of receiving it), so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption, whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. For even as gold, when submersed in filth, loses not on that account its beauty, but retains its own native qualities, the filth having no power to injure the gold, so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance, whatever the material actions in which they may be involved.

Wherefore also it comes to pass, that the “most perfect” among them addict themselves without fear to all those kinds of forbidden deeds of which the Scriptures assure us that “they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”

And committing many other abominations and impieties, they run us down (who from the fear of God guard against sinning even in thought or word) as utterly contemptible and ignorant persons, while they highly exalt themselves, and claim to be perfect, and the elect seed. For they declare that we simply receive grace for use, wherefore also it will again be taken away from us; but that they themselves have grace as their own special possession, which has descended from above by means of an unspeakable and indescribable conjunction; and on this account more will be given them.

Now, let’s compare what was stated regarding Gnosticism with some more recent quotes. Notice the following quotation from Billy Graham in answer to the question, “Will I lose my salvation if I sin?”

When we do sin, God does not reject us or disown us. Our fellowship with Him may be broken, but our relationship is not; we are still members of His family if we have truly committed our lives to Christ”

(h**p://www.billygraham.org/qna/qna.asp?i=484)

In response to another question, “How big a sin do you have to commit before you lose your salvation?” Billy Graham said:

I am convinced that once a person sincerely and honestly trusts Christ for his or her salvation, they become a member of God’s family forever — and nothing can change that relationship.

(h**p://www.billygraham.org/qna/qna.asp?i=1777)

Edward Hiscox in “The Standard Manual for Baptist Churches” says it this way:

We believe that the scriptures teach that such as are truly regenerate, being born of the Spirit, will not utterly fall away and perish, but will endure unto the end; that their persevering attachment to Christ is the grand mark which distinguishes them from superficial professors; that a special Providence watches over their welfare; and that they are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation (Hiscox, pg. 67, 1939).

The Westminster Confession of Faith states regarding the perseverance of the saints:

I. They whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.

II. This perseverance of the saints depends, not upon their own free-will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ; the abiding of the Spirit and of the seed of God within them; and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.

III. Nevertheless they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevelancy of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their perseverance, fall into grievous sins; and for a time continue therein: whereby they incur God’s displeasure, and grieve his Holy Spirit; come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts; have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.

The point of these quotations is not to prove that Calvinists teach this doctrine, because they freely admit it. The point is to show the similarities between what the Gnostics taught and what Calvinists teach. There are some differences, but the essence of the teaching is the same.

If a person is saved, it is not by means of his own conduct, but on account of his nature. While Gnostics and Calvinists differ in the origin of that nature, the doctrine is still the same. Gnostics say that it is due to a special spiritual nature. Calvinists say that they are infused by the nature of Christ.
One is saved on account of one’s election to be saved. The Gnostics said that they were of the “elect seed.” Calvinists say that they are elected by God. Both agree that being elected precludes their actions from affecting that election in a negative way.

While one may willfully sin in the flesh, that does not affect the relationship that one has to God and salvation. The third part of the Westminster Confession of Faith (as quoted above) makes it plain that Christians may even live in sinfulness, yet not affect their salvation. The Gnostics just went one step further and stated that it was their desire and practice to do so.

Grace overcomes all sins regardless of the individual’s attitude toward sin. Calvinists state that grace is irresistible and the Christian cannot help but fall under it. Gnostics say that regardless how much sin they willingly commit, grace flows upon them freely for every sin they commit.

Both agree that there is nothing that can cause the one who is saved to lose their salvation. Gnostics take this to the ultimate conclusion and pursue their own lusts and passions without constraint. Calvinists, however, take another approach. They say that the Christian who is saved generally won’t choose to live like that, even though if they did, they couldn’t lose their salvation. In essence giving mere lip service to practicing righteousness.

The parallels are striking. How many times have we heard the person who believes in this doctrine of “once saved, always saved” say that the child of God cannot fall from grace? How many times have we heard those who believe this doctrine say that the child of God cannot lose their spirituality? How many times have we heard them say that the child of God cannot sin in such a way so as to lose his salvation? The similarities between this form of Gnosticism and the doctrine of “Once saved, always saved” are too numerous to ignore.

It was indeed the teaching and practice of the apostles to reject the doctrines of Gnosticism, including this doctrine. The book of Colossians was written by Paul in rejection of Gnosticism. John’s account of the gospel of Christ and his epistle of 1 John were also written as a response to the doctrines of Gnosticism...
This too is religious nonsense....the result of an equally false doctrine of believing that when one is saved they have not passed from death to life (as if one could pass back and forth)...an equally non-biblical reality.

I say "equally" false, because, yes, many believe they are saved and do continue to sin, when they are not actually saved, but only lead to believe the religious practices (teachings of men) taught to them are the same as literally coming before God and passing from death to life at His hand.
 
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Dash RipRock

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This too is religious nonsense....the result of an equally false doctrine of believing that when one is saved they have not passed from death to life

And then some who got saved, passed from death in to life - turned away from the Lord later and passed from life back unto death

God's Word warns us of this so the smart one won't do that. The slow ones go around saying "we can never loose our salvation" which is not true biblical doctrine when we accept all the Lord says in His Word concerning salvation.

Yes, because many are called (or follow in name only) but few are chosen.

So it's God's fault then if someone doesn't get saved?

How calvinistic of you!

No, the warnings to intended to teach people to not be deceived by the false teachers who falsely claim "we can never loose our salvation".
 

Behold

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And then some who got saved, passed from death in to life - turned away from the Lord later and passed from life back unto death

No verse in any Bible, or Greek "text", says that you can pass back into death, once you have received From God.. "The gift of Etermal life".

Your Theology, is not related to God's Grace, or to the NT.... @Dash RipRock
You post verses, that you dont understand, and this will continue as its always the "fruit" of a Self Righteous Legalist...when they are found on a "chrisitan forum".
 

ScottA

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And then some who got saved, passed from death in to life - turned away from the Lord later and passed from life back unto death

God's Word warns us of this so the smart one won't do that. The slow ones go around saying "we can never loose our salvation" which is not true biblical doctrine when we accept all the Lord says in His Word concerning salvation.



So it's God's fault then if someone doesn't get saved?

How calvinistic of you!

No, the warnings to intended to teach people to not be deceived by the false teachers who falsely claim "we can never loose our salvation".
Of course you did not quote or address all of my post--which is the same problem of not factoring in all of scripture, and thus, your doctrine.

Then name calling.
 

Kokyu

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We all know people who believe the doctrine of “Once saved, always saved.” This is the idea that once a person becomes a child of God, there is no sin that they can commit to lose their salvation.

I believe in the doctrine of eternal security but in the decades I've held to this view, I've never put it like this or thought of it in these terms. This is, at least as far as I'm concerned what is called a Strawman of the doctrine of eternal security of the believer. The doctrine simply - and very biblically - affirms who does the saving (Jesus - Acts 4:12; Jn. 14:6; 1 Ti. 2:5-6) and on what basis (by grace, through faith, not by works - Eph. 2:8-9; Tit. 3:5-7; 2 Ti. 2:9; Ro. 10:9-10; Jn. 3:16).

Many people today find this doctrine to be of great comfort, because it in essence relieves them of all personal responsibility in their relationship with God.

??? Not in my case. Such "comfort" as you describe has nothing whatever to do with why I subscribe to this doctrine clearly elucidated in God's word. Again, what you've offered above is just a Strawman version of the truth.

After all, if I am saved, and there is nothing that I can do to be lost, then it doesn’t really matter how I behave or act, so I need not worry that much about it.

I don't think this way at all. My understanding of the doctrine of eternal security doesn't lead me anywhere near this conclusion, but it does liberate me from legalistic fear and the hypocrisy that this legalism always engenders. Instead of a motive of fear in walking with God, I fellowship daily with Him from a motive of love, which is, actually, God's First and Great commandment to all of His children (Matt. 22:36-38). And this love-motive is far greater, far more powerful, than fear in causing me to live in a way that permits the greatest measure of joyful fellowship to exist between myself and my holy Maker. In fact, the apostle John wrote that love "casts out fear" and that the one who lives in fear of God has not been made perfect in love. (1 Jn. 4:16-19)

The truth is that this is a most dangerous doctrine when it comes to matters of religion, because it deceives people into thinking that their relationship with God is secure, when it really is not.

And from my end, your characterization of this biblical doctrine here is the dangerous thing, for the alternative to the eternal security doctrine is, at bottom, either the joy-killing, hypocrisy-producing, Self-centered motive of fear in walking with God, and/or the blasphemy of works-salvation.

Interestingly enough, this false doctrine has been around for quite a long time. In fact, early Christians had to deal with it in the 1st and 2nd centuries. During that period of time, there was a false doctrine known as Gnosticism. Of the Gnostics, one sect taught the doctrine of once saved, always saved.

This is a sort of Boogeyman tactic, or Guilt by Association maneuver, both of which are fallacies of reasoning.

The point is to show the similarities between what the Gnostics taught and what Calvinists teach. There are some differences, but the essence of the teaching is the same.

??? You haven't shown this at all. Goodness. But this is what is usually the case when the detractor of a particular view sets out to define and characterize the view s/he opposes. Very often, there is terrible distortion of the view that occurs, as in the case of your rendering of the doctrine of eternal security in your OP.
 
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Dash RipRock

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Of course you did not quote or address all of my post--which is the same problem of not factoring in all of scripture, and thus, your doctrine.

Then name calling.

No need to address all of what a cherry picker claims as they continually reject the whole counsel of God

Calvinistic is a title you apparently embrace so that should not be offensive you you in any way.

These calvinists are proud people which of course is their problem.
 

ScottA

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No need to address all of what a cherry picker claims as they continually reject the whole counsel of God

Calvinistic is a title you apparently embrace so that should not be offensive you you in any way.

These calvinists are proud people which of course is their problem.
Thanks for explaining your cherry picking my post and the scriptures. But the name calling, you really need to work on that too.