Once Saved Always Saved

[Charlie24]

Sorry folks, I can't go along with this! I know it's a huge argument but the scripture makes it clear that man can lose his salvation through unbelief, that is, no longer believing in Christ for whatever reason and just walking away from Him.

This is what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is all about, as we shall see from scripture! The Holy Spirit is humiliated by dwelling in a person who now rejects Christ!

There were some who had accepted Christ as their Saviour but now have gone back to temple worship (Judaism) and renounced Christ. This is what is happening in Hebrews 6.

But before we go there, I would like to say that OSAS came from the Calvinist teaching that the chosen of God cannot resist His grace. They cannot resist receiving it or resist losing it. Therefore they cannot lose their salvation. I intend to prove this is not biblical!

Hebrews 6:4-6

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

As we see here, they were "made partakers of the Holy Spirit" and fell away, in this case, going back to temple worship, thereby rejecting Christ.

They have committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and can never be renewed unto repentance. But the thing is, they will never want to be renewed unto repentance in Christ.

So if you are ever concerned that you may have committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, that is proof you haven't! You will not be concerned of it because you are no longer concerned about Christ.

 

[Wrangler]

Agreed. While I admit there are verses in support of both positions, I side with Jesus talking about salt losing its flavor and vines that don't produce fruit are destined for fire.

I do find the ex post facto reasoning of OSAS ironic; that if someone who was saved turns their back on God, they weren't REALLY saved to begin with.

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP, we do not agree with that assessment. for John 14:16, and other scriptures clearly states the obvious. Romans 11:29 "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." God is not an Indian giver, and he makes no mistakes.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[justbyfaith]

How to live in Victory

Look carefully at what I'm about to show you.

Luk 8:12, Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

This is the context of Luke 8:13, and it says clearly that if you believe you are saved. This understanding is also substantiated by Ephesians 2:8-9.

Now,

Luk 8:13, They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Notice that these people believe for a while...that means that they are saved for a while...not from hell, mind you, but from sin (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14)...then they fall away.

So, @Behold, are you going to contend that those who fall away from faith continue to have salvation?

You would be teaching heresy by doing that.

Consider Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 5:1-2.

We have access by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we are saved by grace.

If we lose faith, we lose access to grace and therefore our salvation is in jeopardy.

You lose faith, you lose access to grace; and since you were saved by grace, in losing access to grace you would lose salvation.

But this is only for those who have a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith.

Those who have a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14) are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5) and therefore have everlasting life (John 6:47) because the Holy Spirit instills within them an everlasting faith that is kept in them through the seal of the Holy Spirit...and everlasting life by definition can never come to an end...otherwise it would have been defined as temporal.

Therefore the exhortation is this.

Phl 2:12, Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

which means,

2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

 

[Charlie24]

Addressing the OP, we do not agree with that assessment. for John 14:16, and other scriptures clearly states the obvious. Romans 11:29 "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." God is not an Indian giver, and he maks no mistakes.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Heb. 10:26-29
"For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

If we willfully stop believing in Christ, transferring our faith away from Him, there is no other sacrifice for our sins.

But the judgement of God is now on that person, he has counted the Blood of the Covenant of Christ as an unholy thing.

This is saying the same as Heb. 6, stop believing and turn away from Christ, and you have taken your lot with the unbelievers!

 

[justbyfaith]

Willful sin refers to more than just unbelief...

What this is saying is that those who engage in willful sin do so as the result of unbelief.

But it can consist of such things as uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness.

We must repent of sin.

 

[Charlie24]

Willful sin refers to more than just unbelief...

What this is saying is that those who engage in willful sin do so as the result of unbelief.

But it can consist of such things as uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness.

We must repent of sin.

It is speaking of "the willful sin" which refers to transferring one's faith to other than Christ.

"After we have received the knowledge of truth" speaks of salvation in Christ.

"There remains no more sacrifice for sins" is referring to the sacrifice of Christ that cleanses from all sin.

You no longer have faith in Christ and now there is no more sacrifice for your sins!

 

[FHII]

First off... Hebrews 10:26 is talking about forsaking the assembling. People hate that, but there is a reason people quote the 26th verse but omit the 25th verse.

Second, just because you were a partaker of the Holy Spirit and exposed to the truth it doesn't mean you are a Child of God. It means you were called, but not chosen.

Here are some verses that if you don't believe in predestination, you may have problems with:

1 John 2:19 KJV
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Matthew 7:23 KJV
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Third, while predestination does exist, and God not only knows his sheep but has predetermined it, it doesn't help us. God tells us the signs, what to look for, how to be... But he doesn't tell us if we will make it. So we still have to go through life without knowing and contending for the faith. He knows who will get the diploma, but he doesn't tell us nor does he give it early.

 

[marks]

This is what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is all about, as we shall see from scripture!

Let's see . . .

Mark 3:28-30 KJV
28) Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29) But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
30) Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

According to this passage, these blasphemed the Holy Spirit by saying that the Spirit in Christ was an unclean spirit. They claimed the Holy Spirit was an unclean spirit.

That's what blasphemy is, what the word mean, the insult or vilify. And that's what they did. The vilified the Holy Spirit by saying He is an unclean spirit.

Or did you have a different passage in mind?

Much love!

 

[Charlie24]

First off... Hebrews 10:26 is talking about forsaking the assembling. People hate that, but there is a reason people quote the 26th verse but omit the 25th verse.

Second, just because you were a partaker of the Holy Spirit and exposed to the truth it doesn't mean you are a Child of God. It means you were called, but not chosen.

Here are some verses that if you don't believe in predestination, you may have problems with:

1 John 2:19 KJV
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Matthew 7:23 KJV
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Third, while predestination does exist, and God not only knows his sheep but has predetermined it, it doesn't help us. God tells us the signs, what to look for, how to be... But he doesn't tell us if we will make it. So we still have to go through life without knowing and contending for the faith. He knows who will get the diploma, but he doesn't tell us nor does he give it early.

So you were made a partaker of the Holy Spirit but you are not saved.

Gonna have to pedal that somewhere else!

Hebrews 10:19-25 tells us to hold on to our profession of faith, vs. 23, and then the importance of gathering to together, it's about faith. Then in vs. 26-31 he tells us why this important, we could lose our faith.

You are misguided on this my friend!

 

[marks]

Agreed. While I admit there are verses in support of both positions, I side with Jesus talking about salt losing its flavor and vines that don't produce fruit are destined for fire.

I do find the ex post facto reasoning of OSAS ironic; that if someone who was saved turns their back on God, they weren't REALLY saved to begin with.

1 John 2:18-19 LITV
18) Little children, it is a last hour, and as you heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have risen up, from which you know that it is a last hour.
19) They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they were of us, they would have remained with us; but they left so that it might be revealed that they all are not of us.

Much love!

 

[Pearl]

Sorry folks, I can't go along with this! I know it's a huge argument but the scripture makes it clear that man can lose his salvation through unbelief, that is, no longer believing in Christ for whatever reason and just walking away from Him.

Remember the story of the prodigal son? He walked away but he didn't stop being his father's son. And when he came home his father was the first to welcome him, wrap a cloak around him and put a ring on his finger and provide a feast for him.

This is our wonderful loving God. Once we are in his family we are in for eternity. We cannot be unborn.

 

[Charlie24]

Remember the story of the prodigal son? He walked away but he didn't stop being his father's son. And when he came home his father was the first to welcome him, wrap a cloak around him and put a ring on his finger and provide a feast for him.

This is our wonderful loving God. Once we are in his family we are in for eternity. We cannot be unborn.

He didn't deny Christ as what we are speaking of in Heb., he was a backslider, there is a huge difference!

 

[marks]

I would like to say that OSAS came from the Calvinist teaching that the chosen of God cannot resist His grace. They cannot resist receiving it or resist losing it. Therefore they cannot lose their salvation.

For me, this teaching comes from passages such as . . .

Colossians 3:1-4 LITV
1) If, then, you were raised with Christ, seek the things above, where Christ is sitting at the right of God; Psa. 110:1
2) mind the things above, not the things on the earth.
3) For you died, and your life has been hidden with Christ in God.
4) Whenever Christ our life is revealed, then also you will be revealed with Him in glory.

This is prophecy, and will be fulfilled. If you were born again, that is, raised with Christ, having died, then you WILL appear with Him in glory.

Or Philippians, "He who began a good work in you will complete it until the day of Christ." There are so many more. This doesn't need Calvin.

Much love!

 

[CadyandZoe]

Sorry folks, I can't go along with this! I know it's a huge argument but the scripture makes it clear that man can lose his salvation through unbelief, that is, no longer believing in Christ for whatever reason and just walking away from Him.

This is what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is all about, as we shall see from scripture! The Holy Spirit is humiliated by dwelling in a person who now rejects Christ!

There were some who had accepted Christ as their Saviour but now have gone back to temple worship (Judaism) and renounced Christ. This is what is happening in Hebrews 6.

But before we go there, I would like to say that OSAS came from the Calvinist teaching that the chosen of God cannot resist His grace. They cannot resist receiving it or resist losing it. Therefore they cannot lose their salvation. I intend to prove this is not biblical!

Hebrews 6:4-6

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

As we see here, they were "made partakers of the Holy Spirit" and fell away, in this case, going back to temple worship, thereby rejecting Christ.

They have committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and can never be renewed unto repentance. But the thing is, they will never want to be renewed unto repentance in Christ.

So if you are ever concerned that you may have committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, that is proof you haven't! You will not be concerned of it because you are no longer concerned about Christ.

This topic is hamstrung by an assumption that both sides make, i.e. that a person is saved immediately after a confession of belief. If this isn't true, then the debate is moot.

 

[Pearl]

He didn't deny Christ as what we are speaking of in Heb., he was a backslider, there is a huge difference!

He walked away from the FATHER = God. To come to Jesus is to come to the Father. To deny Jesus is to walk away from the Father.

 

[Charlie24]

He walked away from the FATHER = God. To come to Jesus is to come to the Father. To deny Jesus is to walk away from the Father.

Bottom line: he didn't deny Christ as the author in Hebrew is referring to! This is completely a different situation altogether.

 

[marks]

If we willfully stop believing in Christ, transferring our faith away from Him, there is no other sacrifice for our sins.

While I don't think this is what this passage is speaking of, just the same, who is it that is born again, born from God, filled with the Spirit of Christ, who then chooses to stop believing in Christ? Isn't this hypothetical? "Imagine if there were someone who was united in the Spirit with God, who then rejects God." I don't see that taught in the Bible. What I do see is just the opposite.

As we see here, they were "made partakers of the Holy Spirit" and fell away,

Are you remembering that Judas was sent out performing miracles, healings, preaching the Gospel? This did not assure his salvation.

Heb. 10:26-29
"For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

As a Jew living under the Law, once you learned about Jesus, you couldn't just go back and sacrifice an animal as if Jesus' blood were no better than that.

As gentiles, and now, post-temple and post Levitical priesthood, there are no sacrifices period.

Much love!

 

[Pearl]

Bottom line: he didn't deny Christ as the author in Hebrew is referring to! This is completely a different situation altogether.

Maybe it is but my point is once you are born you can't be unborn. And whatever you do, even denying Jesus we remain his children and he never stops loving us and welcoming us back when we see the error of our ways. Don't forget that Peter denied Jesus three times but he was forgiven.

 

[marks]

It is speaking of "the willful sin" which refers to transferring one's faith to other than Christ.

Where can I find that in the Bible? I can't think of the passage.