So, as one relatively new still, what's with the name calling, insults,pejoratives

[Taodeching]

1. Who IS the Final Word on all Truth?

2. Who wrote the Bible?

3. Can anybody translate the Bible any old way they like and still be accepted by God in Heaven when all is said and done?

This is a modern perspective that is absolutely False in every way. I agree that Hate Speech is a total fraud, but what you're describing with the majority of your post is that there is not Absolute Truth.

But there absolutely is.

God, and his word, the bible, and I used just that to make my case. Then there is our helper, the Holy Spirit.

How do you decide what is false?

These concerns are for another thread not here and not to take @Amazed@grace thread off topic

 

[TheslightestID]

These concerns are for another thread not here and not to take @Amazed@grace thread off topic

I was answering your question, lol, so it is you taking it off topic by asking to begin with. Wow, considering the circumstances, what a bizarre comment.

Are you a moderator? If so, you may want to explain to the OP how he has taken his own thread off topic instead if cherry picking those you choose to correct.

 

[Amazed@grace]

I was answering your question, lol, so it is you taking it off topic by asking to begin with. Wow, considering the circumstances, what a bizarre comment.

Are you a moderator? If so, you may want to explain to the OP how he has taken his own thread off topic instead if cherry picking those you choose to correct.

Mayflower first brought up the topic of OSAS in the context of the OP. And to that I responded.
You ran with the OSAS topic after that and that is what took this thread off topic.

Mayflower's using OSAS as an example of how threads can become contentious, and turn into battlefields of name calling, insults,pejoratives, isn't off topic.

Whereas replying to Mayflower's observation in your post 27, and then taking a stance on OSAS when quoting my post comment to Mayflower in your post 28 is where you initiated the derail and continued thereafter.

 

[TheslightestID]

Mayflower first brought up the topic of OSAS in the context of the OP. And to that I responded.
You ran with the OSAS topic after that and that is what took this thread off topic.

Mayflower's using OSAS as an example of how threads can become contentious, and turn into battlefields of name calling, insults,pejoratives, isn't off topic.

Whereas replying to Mayflower's observation in your post 27, and then taking a stance on OSAS when quoting my post comment to Mayflower in your post 28 is where you initiated the derail and continued thereafter.

If you dont want the thread to be brought off topic, don't bring it off yourself.

And please, don't blame others for your own shortcomings.

 

[Mayflower]

Not even a Bible study anyway at this point. I'd have it moved or closed...

 

[Amazed@grace]

If you dont want the thread to be brought off topic, don't bring it off yourself.

And please, don't blame others for your own shortcomings.

I'm blaming no one. I'm pointing out the evidence that in your own words shows you derailed this topic by moving beyond an example topic that can cause contention in forums, into the topic itself, OSAS, starting on page 2 and continuing page after page.

That is all.
And now with your replies to me about that fact, and your tone, you're veering back to the topic itself by displaying the behavior that is of concern.

Thank you and goodnight. :)

 

[TheslightestID]

I'm blaming no one.

Of course you are.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Not even a Bible study anyway at this point. I'd have it moved or closed...

I placed this topic here because it is in BDF's wherein the topic appears most relevant.

I may have placed it in the wrong forum as you are correct, it isn't a Bible study topic. Rather it is a thread that addresses the spirit that very often arises when discussing scripture.

Maybe as a matter of personal reflection the forum is appropriate. We enter this particular board to discuss the precious eternal irrevocable words of God.
And what words do we use to defend our personal understanding, and by allusion, our relationship with the God who inspired the scriptures we debate over.

God sees what we say when we defend our faith and his love letter to the world. Even when we aren't always loving to one another in the process.

How do we love God and our neighbor if we aren't loving toward our neighbors on a forum?


It isn't a holier than thou issue.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Of course you are.

Yes, you're correct. I misspoke. Allow me to clarify and correct my error.

You attempted to blame me for derailing my own thread. As my other post demonstrated, it was actually you that you should blame as the one taking the thread off topic.
Therein I would concur. You are the one that is responsible.

 

[TheslightestID]

Yes, you're correct. I misspoke. Allow me to clarify and correct my error.

You attempted to blame me for derailing my own thread. As my other post demonstrated, it was actually you that you should blame as the one taking the thread off topic.
Therein I would concur. You are the one that is responsible.

Cleary you will not admit you had a part in derailing your own thread, but that's fine..the beauty of these boards is that everything is recorded right here in black and white.

Nuff said.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Very similar situation.

Fully understandable, this site seems really great, I hope you enjoy it as much as I have. Nice meeting you. Bob

 

[amadeus]

This is a modern perspective that is absolutely False in every way. I agree that Hate Speech is a total fraud, but what you're describing with the majority of your post is that there is not Absolute Truth.

But there absolutely is.

There most certainly is, I believe [LOL] that there is such as thing as AT [Absolute Truth], however, who besides God knows every point of that Truth Absolutely? People will refer to the Bible and to the Holy Ghost as the final arbiter, but then they will disagree on what the Bible means or on what the Holy Ghost said. Who is willing to back away to nothing?

 

[Amazed@grace]

There most certainly is, I believe [LOL] that there is such as thing as AT [Absolute Truth], however, who besides God knows every point of that Truth Absolutely? People will refer to the Bible and to the Holy Ghost as the final arbiter, but then they will disagree on what the Bible means or on what the Holy Ghost said. Who is willing to back away to nothing?

It's a bit of a conundrum. We are taught not to put trust in fallible man, but to trust the bible that was written and canonized by fallible men who themselves believed God inspired the bible to come into being.
Yet fallible men decided what would constitute the canon. Therein placing themselves as editors of sorts over God's words to the world.

Have you noticed all denominations teachings come from scripture?
Sure they may twist them about in ways other of us don't agree with. Yet, it is still bible.

Maybe the one passage that refers to our working out our salvation has something to do with that?

Navigating the words on the page to find the truth of God in Christ.

No one comes to the father but through me. (The Word made flesh).
The Word that is God transcends the works of men.:) Look deeper.

 

[GEN2REV]

There most certainly is, I believe [LOL] that there is such as thing as AT [Absolute Truth], however, who besides God knows every point of that Truth Absolutely? People will refer to the Bible and to the Holy Ghost as the final arbiter, but then they will disagree on what the Bible means or on what the Holy Ghost said. Who is willing to back away to nothing?

Hi, Amadeus.

I'm not exactly sure why you singled out my post for this response, or what we may be misunderstanding, but I didn't claim to know every point of Absolute Truth. I was making a general statement about the FACT that it DOES exist and IS relevant - despite today's current steady PUSH to eliminate the concept altogether. Especially among the younger generations.

If anybody hasn't noticed, our world leaders are actively destroying all aspects of Absolute Truth from the Family Values to the night/day, good/evil, male/female "Absolutes" within our world.

They're telling us to refer to our MOTHERS as our "BIRTHING PERSON" for crying out loud. Now, I don't know about you, but my Mother is my MOTHER.

On the off chance you missed TDC's original comment that began our exchange, this is what they said:

Yes, It was quite a surprise that some think everyone should think like them. It seems to many here that we are going to hell for not being like the. Christianity is just as diverse as anything and no one way of looking at things within Christianity is the bad way, just different. These forums seem worse than others for conspiracy theory, politics, and lies about others in my short time of being here.

I'm sorry if we may disagree, but this is "ABSOLUTELY" wrong.

That specific perspective is what leads to New Age perspectives infecting scriptural doctrine as well as the Biblically Heretical opinion that we can have religious UNITY in the world.

As long as one intends to be RIGHT with God and His Word, We cannot.

And, for the record, these Absolutely 'ARE' Salvation Issues.

God bless, my friend.

 

[GEN2REV]

It's a bit of a conundrum. We are taught not to put trust in fallible man, but to trust the bible that was written and canonized by fallible men who themselves believed God inspired the bible to come into being.
Yet fallible men decided what would constitute the canon. Therein placing themselves as editors of sorts over God's words to the world.

Hi Amazed.

We agree on many things and that's why it makes me sad when I hear of people believing this perspective. It is the darkness of the enemy crept into Faithful minds unaware.

The Bible was written by God. You can rest assured of that. He Himself chose Faithful men to write His Words who dedicated their entire lives, every waking moment, to Him. He created all things and has power over all things. If there was any possibility that His Words could be destroyed, they would have already been many times over. Countless kings and powerful men have attempted to destroy the Bible over and over throughout the centuries. God will NOT allow it.

"Heaven and earth will pass away but My Words will by NO means pass away." (Matthew 24:35)
"For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." (Matthew 5:18)

The original 70 translators used a method that was foolproof on top of foolproof. The worst thing that has happened to the Bible was the Council of Nicea which separated out the Apocrypha, which was later completely removed, as well as many other books.

BUT ... this did not effect the scripture that remains. They did not re-write scripture. And any single verses, here or there, that could be argued to be inaccurate can be clarified by studying the Bible as a whole, from Genesis to Revelation ... over and over throughout your lifetime.

If the Bible was even capable of being corrupted significantly, it wouldn't even exist anymore. And if you believe that it has been, or that it was written by men, then your faith is gravely compromised.

Have True Faith and trust that God has kept His Word intact for all His Faithful followers. It is the only path to Absolute Truth.

God Bless dear friend.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Hi Amazed.

We agree on many things and that's why it makes me sad when I hear of people believing this perspective. It is the darkness of the enemy crept into Faithful minds unaware.

The Bible was written by God. You can rest assured of that. He Himself chose Faithful men to write His Words who dedicated their entire lives, every waking moment, to Him. He created all things and has power over all things. If there was any possibility that His Words could be destroyed, they would have already been many times over. Countless kings and powerful men have attempted to destroy the Bible over and over throughout the centuries. God will NOT allow it.

"Heaven and earth will pass away but My Words will by NO means pass away." (Matthew 24:35)
"For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." (Matthew 5:18)

The original 70 translators used a method that was foolproof on top of foolproof. The worst thing that has happened to the Bible was the Council of Nicea which separated out the Apocrypha, which was later completely removed, as well as many other books.

BUT ... this did not effect the scripture that remains. They did not re-write scripture. And any single verses, here or there, that could be argued to be inaccurate can be clarified by studying the Bible as a whole, from Genesis to Revelation ... over and over throughout your lifetime.

If the Bible was even capable of being corrupted significantly, it wouldn't even exist anymore. And if you believe that it has been, or that it was written by men, then your faith is gravely compromised.

Have True Faith and trust that God has kept His Word intact for all His Faithful followers. It is the only path to Absolute Truth.

God Bless dear friend.

God bless you as well.
My faith is not compromised.

 

[amadeus]

It's a bit of a conundrum. We are taught not to put trust in fallible man, but to trust the bible that was written and canonized by fallible men who themselves believed God inspired the bible to come into being.
Yet fallible men decided what would constitute the canon. Therein placing themselves as editors of sorts over God's words to the world.

Have you noticed all denominations teachings come from scripture?
Sure they may twist them about in ways other of us don't agree with. Yet, it is still bible.

Maybe the one passage that refers to our working out our salvation has something to do with that?

Navigating the words on the page to find the truth of God in Christ.

No one comes to the father but through me. (The Word made flesh).
The Word that is God transcends the works of men.:) Look deeper.

A couple of things. One is of course most if not all denominations claiming to be Christians used a Bible, be the Protestant 66 books or the Catholic 73, and none of them admit to be wrong even though there is certainly a whole lot of disagreement. Even those who emphasis being under anointing of the Holy Ghost disagree with one another.

What I see are mixed messages coming from people The mix is made up of God's Truth and man's additions or misunderstandings. Only God can really sort it out, but men standing against men insist that they have it right. Do they? They may know, but how can I unless God has revealed it to me? If He did reveal it to me and I shared that revelation, how many believers will still disagree with me.

What man can draw the line in what he himself believes as opposed to what he knows? Perhaps Jesus alone as a man who never made a mistake, who never sinned, who was the Word of God... Everyone else, myself included, should be admitting the possibility that he still has mixture of ATs and erroneous beliefs, doctrines or conclusions.

Discussion of differences is good, but heated arguments? Does the one with the loudest voice or the one who posts the last post win the argument? I think not.

We all are or should be growing. If any one of our own held ATs is in error, how may we ever grow on that point if we never concede the possibility of being wrong?

 

[Amazed@grace]

A couple of things. One is of course most if not all denominations claiming to be Christians used a Bible, be the Protestant 66 books or the Catholic 73, and none of them admit to be wrong even though there is certainly a whole lot of disagreement. Even those who emphasis being under anointing of the Holy Ghost disagree with one another.

What I see are mixed messages coming from people The mix is made up of God's Truth and man's additions or misunderstandings. Only God can really sort it out, but men standing against men insist that they have it right. Do they? They may know, but how can I unless God has revealed it to me? If He did reveal it to me and I shared that revelation, how many believers will still disagree with me.

What man can draw the line in what he himself believes as opposed to what he knows? Perhaps Jesus alone as a man who never made a mistake, who never sinned, who was the Word of God... Everyone else, myself included, should be admitting the possibility that he still has mixture of ATs and erroneous beliefs, doctrines or conclusions.

Discussion of differences is good, but heated arguments? Does the one with the loudest voice or the one who posts the last post win the argument? I think not.

We all are or should be growing. If any one of our own held ATs is in error, how may we ever grow on that point if we never concede the possibility of being wrong?

And what can be the factor that may preclude someone facing their error in understanding?
Ego and pride?
Ego, is Latin and meaning, "I". Pride relates to self, a positive emotion, when not taken to excess of course, self congratulatory.

We as individuals, "I" , comprise the body of the church. Each one holy spirit filled, each one in relationship with God.
Each one believing we understand God's meaning in his words to us.

Maybe we clash because when in these types of discussions we seek consensus and approval to affirm we are right(eous).

Another way to maybe look at it is
, not including those who are not serious students but act as trolls in our communities and in service to the enemy, what each one of the saints of God understand in any given teaching is what God means to be understood by that one reading.

Then again, just as an aside, is ego and pride ever removed from a faith and practice that first affirms believers in it are the one and only God's elect?

It's a mystery.

 

[amadeus]

Hi, Amadeus.

I'm not exactly sure why you singled out my post for this response, or what we may be misunderstanding, but I didn't claim to know every point of Absolute Truth. I was making a general statement about the FACT that it DOES exist and IS relevant - despite today's current steady PUSH to eliminate the concept altogether. Especially among the younger generations.

If anybody hasn't noticed, our world leaders are actively destroying all aspects of Absolute Truth from the Family Values to the night/day, good/evil, male/female "Absolutes" within our world.

They're telling us to refer to our MOTHERS as our "BIRTHING PERSON" for crying out loud. Now, I don't know about you, but my Mother is my MOTHER.

On the off chance you missed TDC's original comment that began our exchange, this is what they said:

Your post caught my attention with the words, "Absolute Truth". As I have already said, I do believe that they exist, but too many people who express their ATs differ in details, large or small, from the ATs expressed by others. Even people who speak the same language [not speaking necessarily of English or other native tongues although that may be involved as well] very often do not communicate very well. They presume the other guy's meaning of a certain word or phrase or doctrine or whatever is the same as theirs. This is probably seldom the case...

A lot of people who do very well in spoke communications, fail miserably in written communications. There are significant differences!

 

[amadeus]

And what can be the factor that may preclude someone facing their error in understanding?
Ego and pride?
Ego, is Latin and meaning, "I". Pride relates to self, a positive emotion, when not taken to excess of course, self congratulatory.

We as individuals, "I" , comprise the body of the church. Each one holy spirit filled, each one in relationship with God.
Each one believing we understand God's meaning in his words to us.

Maybe we clash because when in these types of discussions we seek consensus and approval to affirm we are right(eous).

Another way to maybe look at it is
, not including those who are not serious students but act as trolls in our communities and in service to the enemy, what each one of the saints of God understand in any given teaching is what God means to be understood by that one reading.

Then again, just as an aside, is ego and pride ever removed from a faith and practice that first affirms believers in it are the one and only God's elect?

It's a mystery.

I agree with much of what you said, but I don't believe it is all an unsolvable mystery. Certainly it is not to God... and when a person is led by the Holy Spirit truly and continues to be led and to follow the Holy Spirit will not to him eventually this mystery no longer be a mystery.

I believe that God is not arbitrarily withholding information, but neither is He handing it all out to satisfy the simply curious: Faith, right?

I have expressed my own thought more fully on this before, but even if I were right all of the time [LOL] how many would read with understanding what I wrote and believe it? Consider how many heard Jesus and yet toward the end of his ministry on planet Earth as a man many of them walked away from Him. And...LOL... I am not Jesus! Jesus explains it in his explanation of the reason for parables.

"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand." Matt 13:10-13

And Paul speaks of it in slightly different manner here:

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

Who among us will understand all of the parables spoken by God in the scriptures or who among us will see face to face?