Forgiveness is to those who keep the commandments of the Lord.

[JunChosen]

So what you all talking about works??
JUST DO THE RIGHT THING

C'mon people this aint rocket science.

Apparently, you have misunderstood the gist of my post

Doing "GOOD WORKS" are the RESULT of salvation and NEVER, NEVER the "CAUSE" of salvation.

Please read my post again especially, paragraphs 2, 3, and 4 before making comments, and let me know what part you did not understand.

Thank you

 

[JunChosen]

Romans: Chapter 10 verse 9-10-13 GOD SAYS=

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be Saved. For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
is made unto Salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the
name of the Lord shall be Saved...............

Romans 10 must be read in light of Jeremiah 17:9 [which is the nature of man]. Plus to confess not only means to "admit" but also to have "the same mind with Christ."

To God Be The Glory

 

[Grailhunter]

Faith without works is dead, so you are essentually saying faith is not required for salvation as dead faith is no faith. Since faith without works is dead, we must have works in order to have live, or real faith. Or do you think you can get to heaven with dead faith?

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?
No that is what I am saying at all! I agree with you and the Apostle James that faith without works is dead. But you are a victim of false translations....KJV? The word there can be translated works or deeds....what James is talking about is Good Deeds. But still, Good Deeds do not save you...but they may provide rewards in heaven.

 

[Ziggy]

Apparently, you have misunderstood the gist of my post

Doing "GOOD WORKS" are the RESULT of salvation and NEVER, NEVER the "CAUSE" of salvation.

Please read my post again especially, paragraphs 2, 3, and 4 before making comments, and let me know what part you did not understand.

Thank you

I wasn't directing the question at you specifically, it was just an open ended chiding.. kind of
And I agree with your statement. It is the Result and not the Cause.
Amen
and Hugs

 

[TheslightestID]

Why does this have to be so controversial?

Because there are those who say we need no works for salvation, even to the point we can live an evil life and still be saved because our faith has us covered, our dead faith.

Or, license to sin.

 

[TheslightestID]

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?
No that is what I am saying at all! I agree with you and the Apostle James that faith without works is dead. But you are a victim of false translations....KJV? The word there can be translated works or deeds....what James is talking about is Good Deeds. But still, Good Deeds do not save you...but they may provide rewards in heaven.

Then you are saying we need not do good to get into heaven, and any good we do amounts to rewards only after we enter the pearly gates?

 

[Ziggy]

Because there are those who say we need no works for salvation, even to the point we can live an evil life and still be saved because our faith has us covered, our dead faith.

Or, license to sin.

Well, works won't save you. We know that. Nothing you can do to earn your salvation.
Salvation is a gift. God sheds his Grace on us.
It's what follows that gift and what we do with it, I believe what matters.

It's all about the fruit.

 

[TheslightestID]

Well, works won't save you. We know that. Nothing you can do to earn your salvation.
Salvation is a gift. God sheds his Grace on us.
It's what follows that gift and what we do with it, I believe what matters.

It's all about the fruit.

Works cannot save us but without them we will cannot be saved. Saying it that way sounds bad, but it is 100% true.

Another reason this is controversial.

 

[Grailhunter]

Then you are saying we need not do good to get into heaven, and any good we do amounts to rewards only after we enter the pearly gates?

That is correct.
People sometimes forget the practical. Christ equates us to the light of the world...do not put your light under a basket.
We are the salt of the world. Christ is our example...what did He do? We are the example to the world. If...if Christ abides in you and You in Him....it should come natural to do good.....to be good. Our walk with Christ, that journey with Him. It is all relative.

 

[mailmandan]

Doing "GOOD WORKS" are the RESULT of salvation and NEVER, NEVER the "CAUSE" of salvation.

Amen! Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith in Christ, but not the essence of faith and also not the basis or means by which we obtain eternal life. We are saved through faith apart from the merit of works, yet authentic faith in Christ that is unto salvation does not remain apart from the presence of works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; James 2:14-26)

 

[TheslightestID]

Then you are saying we need not do good to get into heaven, and any good we do amounts to rewards only after we enter the pearly gates?

That is correct.

Christ is very clear in the following scripture that you are wrong. He says we must do good, and if we do not, we are condemned to hell.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

Are you saying Christ is wrong?

 

[Grailhunter]

Christ is very clear in the following scripture that you are wrong. He says we must do good, and if we do not, we are condemned to hell.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

Are you saying Christ is wrong?

Am I talking to the guy that some are saying is going around and saying that doing Good saves you?
The only part we have in our salvation is choosing Christ, repenting, and baptism. From there salvation is a free gift.
You need to rethink your understanding of the scriptures. The guy that is saved and spends his life in the service of Christ and the guy that goes and lives in his closet for the rest of his life is just as saved. Good can be equated to not doing bad. The man that lives his life in the service of Christ will reap his reward in heaven.

There is a debate regarding the other end of salvation. Judgment Day....the parable of the talents. If God gave us the means to do Good Deeds and we don't there maybe some questions on Judgment Day. And I agree that what service to Christ is a bump on a log? There is also the parable or story of the Sheep and the Goats, but the morale to that story is that doing good will get you to heaven and you do not even need Christ at all. That story is pointed directly at the Jews. So that is another debate. Paul made it clear that we are saved by faith, apart from works.

 

[TheslightestID]

Am I talking to the guy that some are saying is going around and saying that doing Good saves you?
The only part we have in our salvation is choosing Christ, repenting, and baptism. From there salvation is a free gift.
You need to rethink your understanding of the scriptures. The guy that is saved and spends his life in the service of Christ and the guy that goes and lives in his closet for the rest of his life is just as saved. Good can be equated to not doing bad. The man that lives his life in the service of Christ will reap his reward in heaven.

There is a debate regarding the other end of salvation. Judgment Day....the parable of the talents. If God gave us the means to do Good Deeds and we don't there maybe some questions on Judgment Day. And I agree that what service to Christ is a bump on a log? There is also the parable or story of the Sheep and the Goats, but the morale to that story is that doing good will get you to heaven and you do not even need Christ at all. That story is pointed directly at the Jews. So that is another debate. Paul made it clear that we are saved by faith, apart from works.

My understanding of the scriptures is just fine, and you have been shown yours are not, beyond doubt and irrefutably, that you are wrong...we must do good and not do evil in order to not be condemned.

Please stop teaching we need not do good in order to get to heaven as Christ makes it very clear we must.

 

[Grailhunter]

My understanding of the scriptures is just fine, and you have been shown yours are not, beyond doubt and irrefutably, that you are wrong...we must do good and not do evil in order to not be condemned.

Please stop teaching we need not do good in order to get to heaven as Christ makes it very clear we must.

Your problem is that you are showing your character by twisting what I say....no good can come from deceit.
I am the first to agree that we need to do Good Deeds...but lying and twisting the words of others is no good.
Not of a good character. So from what no good soap box are you trying to preach from.

Romans 5:15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Roman 8:32
He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Now you can twist these scriptures, but remember, Christ is watching and everyone else is watching to see your character at work.
If you are a good person...you need to rethink this.

 

[TheslightestID]

I am the first to agree that we need to do Good Deeds...but lying and twisting the words of others is no good.

Who exactly is doing this lying? It was you who said, beyond doubt, that doing good was not a requirement for heaven so it seems to me you have just changed that to we do need to do good... you are back peddling.

Now that I have shown you, you aren't being truthful, can you please be specific with your accusation and show me where I lied?

And back to this:

The only part we have in our salvation is choosing Christ, repenting, and baptism. From there salvation is a free gift.
You need to rethink your understanding of the scriptures

Speaking of rethinking, I suggest you read the scripture on the sheep and the goats, and see exactly where those who did not do their good deeds and take care of the poor were sent. The scripture is so clear a child could understand it.

After you read it, please answer me this, can one get to heaven without doing the works of taking care of the poor? Works that you said are not necessary.

Matthew 25:31-46

The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

[Grailhunter]

Who exactly is doing this lying? It was you who said, beyond doubt, that doing good was not a requirement for heaven so it seems to me you have just changed that to we do need to do good... you are back peddling.

Nope....Do I said that doing good is not a requirement for salvation.
Doing good can be rewarded...but we are saved by faith not by Good Deeds.

I have already addressed the Sheep and the Goat and the talents analogies. It is something to debate...nothing for certain, because it seems to indicate that you can go to heaven with out faith...and without Christ. Now if that is your religion, there is nothing I can do for you, because it is not Christian.

 

[JunChosen]

Christ is very clear in the following scripture that you are wrong. He says we must do good, and if we do not, we are condemned to hell.

Well, the thief on the cross stole all of his life, yet we see right before our eyes Jesus saves him! By the way, I'm not the guy who said we must do good and if not, we are condemned to hell. That was said by another.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

John 5:27-28 is merely a principle and is speaking about Judgment Day.

To God Be The Glory

 

[TheslightestID]

Nope....Do I said that doing good is not a requirement for salvation.

What?

A requirement for heaven, and a requirmrnt for salvation are the same thing.

I have already addressed the Sheep and the Goat and the talents analogies. It is something to debate...nothing for certain, because it seems to indicate that you can go to heaven with out faith...and without Christ. Now if that is your religion, there is nothing I can do for you, because it is not Christian.

Then you are going to avoid the very simple question I asked you?, and that is your reason for doing so? Just answer the question please.

And you also skipped right over answering my question in exactly where I lied, as you accused me if doing.

False accussstions, backpedaling, and evading pertinent questions tell me you know you are wrong.

 

[Grailhunter]

Well, the thief on the cross stole all of his life, yet we see right before us Jesus saves him! By the way, I'm not the guy who said we must do good and if not, we are condemned to hell.

TheslightestID said these things so ask him to explain them
Please stop teaching we need not do good in order to get to heaven as Christ makes it very clear we must. Post 413

Christ is very clear in the following scripture that you are wrong. He says we must do good, and if we do not, we are condemned to hell. post 411

Works cannot save us but without them we will cannot be saved. Saying it that way sounds bad, but it is 100% true. post 408

This guy lies about what he says and tries to twist what you say....deceit.
It is up to you JunChosen as to how much time you want to spend on him...he is obviously a Decepticon. LOL

 

[Grailhunter]

What?

A requirement for heaven, and a requirmrnt for salvation are the same thing.



Then you are going to avoid the very simple question I asked you?, and that is your reason for doing so? Just answer the question please.

And you also skipped right over answering my question in exactly where I lied, as you accused me if doing.

False accussstions, backpedaling, and evading pertinent questions tell me you know you are wrong.

Obviously a mis-type...noticed you did not copy the whole thing so you could attempt to deceive again.
Nope....Do I said that doing good is not a requirement for salvation.
Doing good can be rewarded...but we are saved by faith not by Good Deeds. post 416