Will believers really be saved? (OSAS vs Loss of Salvation)

[atpollard]

Jesus said:

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God." [John 3:14-21 NKJV]​

Paul said:

But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." [Romans 10:8-13 NKJV]​

A simple question:
Did they tell the truth, or did they lie to us?

 

[atpollard]

For my part, I agree with R.C. Sproul on the matter:

Writing to the Philippians, Paul says, “He who has begun a good work in you will perfect it to the end” (Philippians 1:6). Therein is the promise of God that what He starts in our souls, He intends to finish. So the old axiom in Reformed theology about the perseverance of the saints is this: If you have it—that is, if you have genuine faith and are in a state of saving grace—you will never lose it. If you lose it, you never had it.

We know that many people make professions of faith, then turn away and repudiate or recant those professions. The Apostle John notes that there were those who left the company of the disciples, and he says of them, “Those who went out from us were never really with us” (1 John 2:19). Of course, they were with the disciples in terms of outward appearances before they departed. They had made an outward profession of faith, and Jesus makes it clear that it is possible for a person to do this even when he doesn’t possess what he’s professing. Jesus says, “This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me” (Matthew 15:8). Jesus even warns at the end of the Sermon on the Mount that at the last day, many will come to Him, saying: “Lord, Lord, didn’t we do this in your name? Didn’t we do that in your name?” He will send them away, saying: “Depart from Me, you workers of iniquity. I never knew you” (Matthew 7:23). He will not say: “I knew you for a season and then you went sour and betrayed Me. No, you never were part of My invisible church.” The whole purpose of God’s election is to bring His people safely to heaven; therefore, what He starts He promises to finish. He not only initiates the Christian life, but the Holy Spirit is with us as the sanctifier, the convictor, and the helper to ensure our preservation. [TULIP and Reformed Theology: Perseverance of the Saints]​

 

[CharismaticLady]

Jesus said:

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God." [John 3:14-21 NKJV]​

Paul said:

But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." [Romans 10:8-13 NKJV]​

A simple question:
Did they tell the truth, or did they lie to us?

The key word is believe and what that entails. It is not just knowing about. It is actually following Him. But not by the flesh, but by having received the Holy Spirit. In other words, we must be born again. The evidence is a changed life that is no longer bound by sin.

1 John 3:21-24 shows our actual assurance.

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus said:

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God." [John 3:14-21 NKJV]​

Paul said:

But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." [Romans 10:8-13 NKJV]​

A simple question:
Did they tell the truth, or did they lie to us?

They told us the truth. 1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

 

[atpollard]

The key word is believe and what that entails. It is not just knowing about. It is actually following Him. But not by the flesh, but by having received the Holy Spirit. In other words, we must be born again. The evidence is a changed life that is no longer bound by sin.

1 John 3:21-24 shows our actual assurance.

1 John 3:21-24 [NKJV]

Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.​

I always liked the analogy of the two types of "knowledge".

I can read a book about "How to repair an engine." and I will "know" how to repair an engine.
I can then disassemble an engine, replace the worn out parts, and reassemble that engine to get it working again and "know" how to repair an engine.

Same word "know" but a completely different experience.
You can "believe" that Jesus is Lord and God raised Him from the dead ... like reading about fixing an engine and believing that you can fix an engine.
You can "believe" that Jesus is Lord and God raised Him from the dead ... like actually rebuilding an engine and believing that you can do it again.

The first type of belief might be put to the test and find out they didn't really "know" what they thought they knew.
The second type of belief can be put to any test and they "know what they know".

Except for Christians, it is not WHAT you know, but WHO KNOWS YOU!

John 10:25-30 [NKJV]

Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are one."​

 

[Eternally Grateful]

They told us the truth. 1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Jesus said the same in John 6.

He told us to look for the food which endures forever. that anyone who eats (faith in Christ) will never hunger or thirst. Never die. Live forever. Be raised on the last day and has eternal life.

John 4. Again eternal life based on believing in him.

So many placed this is found. Yet people want to call it conditional life. Sad, so sad

 

[atpollard]

They told us the truth. 1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Yes and Amen.
I got tired of all the "discussions" on OSAS built on hypothetical cases and devoid of actual scripture.
I just wanted to put it out there whether people really thought that all the clear scripture were lies or truth.
We can also discuss from scripture truth what is NOT TRUE among some OSAS fringe groups.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Who wants to see little man doubt the truth of God's Word more than satan

 

[Riverwalker]

Salvation is not earned. It is gifted and it is ours when we first believe

Eph 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

1 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ,

Stop trying to earn salvation and start LIVING it

 

[atpollard]

Eph 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

I have a Lutheran friend (and Paedobaptism sword-fighting partner ) that likes the quote "I believe in Salvation based on Works, they are just not my works." (the implication being that it is the work of Jesus that saves).

I really like Ephesians 2:1-10 and I always make sure to include all the way to verse 10. It feels like a sword that cuts both ways.

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

Before we need to start "walking" in those "good works", we are already "HIS WORKMANSHIP" (a term in Greek that means superior work demonstrating His skill; masterpiece). In God's sight, we are already "all that and a bag of chips" as my Elder Norbert would have said. We have nothing to earn from or prove to God. We are already His "masterwork" in Christ.

Then there is the flip side of that coin. If you find yourself with no good works to walk in ... (and especially if that fact doesn't bother you) ... then you probably have a good reason to wonder whether you really are "in Christ" and might want to confirm that Ephesians 2:5-10 ending at the word workmanship applies to you. It would be a bad thing to get to eternity and discover that you were really stuck in Ephesians 2:1-4.

That doesn't scare me at all. I think that it is great that God does all of the heavy lifting in our salvation, and still gives us a quick and simple litmus test to "double check" for OUR peace of mind. We can give a reason for the hope that we have within us. [1 Peter 3:15]

 

[CharismaticLady]

John 10:25-30 [NKJV]
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are one."

1 John 3:21-24 is the basis for following Christ. They keep His commandments as part of their new nature. They follow naturally because Jesus is inside of them. Romans 8:9.

Knowledge is Christ on the outside still knocking at the door of the lukewarm heart.

 

[marks]

A simple question:
Did they tell the truth, or did they lie to us?

God tells us the truth.

When Jesus is revealed, we will be revealed with Him. Being His childen now, when we see Him then, we will be like Him. He will change our vile body into one like His glorious body.

Yes, He will!

Much love!

 

[Riverwalker]

I have a Lutheran friend (and Paedobaptism sword-fighting partner ) that likes the quote "I believe in Salvation based on Works, they are just not my works." (the implication being that it is the work of Jesus that saves).

Excellent!

 

[Wrangler]

whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life

Present tense, not past tense. And I don't think it means lip service either.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

A simple question:
Did they tell the truth, or did they lie to us?

Yes, God's WORD Of Truth, is, Well, TRUTH!

Salvation is 100 Percent Free but Eternal Rewards are 100 percent Earned!:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Present tense, not past tense. And I don't think it means lip service either.

You cant HAVE eternal life if it can be lost

that would make it just plain life, or. On eternal life, or more apply conditional life

the Bible did not say those who believe have conditional life or just life, it says we are made alive eternally forever

 

[MatthewG]

Will believers really be saved? (OSAS vs Loss of Salvation)

Believers (They are continually active and believing) are saved to the Kingdom of God ~

All human beings have been saved from their sins due the blood shed on the cross paying for the ~> Worlds Sin -> that includes our own before we were born.

Can people go from belief into unbelief absolutely if they are not strong in the faith and have a harden heart that leads to disbelief

according to the bible ~. I could be wrong though so do not believe me and check the bible.

 

[Wrangler]

You cant HAVE eternal life if it can be lost

It’s so odd how you invent a criteria. A bullet proof vest only works if you are currently wearing it in the moment of truth.

For some reason, you want to add a mystical, magical dimension to the topic.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It’s so odd how you invent a criteria. A bullet proof vest only works if you are currently wearing it in the moment of truth.

For some reason, you want to add a mystical, magical dimension to the topic.

I want to add what?

life eternal means that life eternal

if life can stop Being eternal it’s not eternal life

I did Not add anything I just interpreted the word the way it is supposed to
Be interpreted

your the one that makes it something it is Not

 

[Wrangler]

I want to add what?

life eternal means that life eternal

Friend, I just explained this. A bullet proof vest means a bullet proof vest. Are you going to ignore my question about the need to be wearing the vest in the moment of truth?