Will believers really be saved? (OSAS vs Loss of Salvation)

[GRACE ambassador]

according to the bible ~. I could be wrong though so do not believe me and check the bible.

Amen, Precious friend! "According To The Scriptures":
Salvation is 100 Percent Free but Eternal Rewards are 100 percent Earned!:

I "checked The Bible" and The Scriptures are here:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

Precious friend, Please Be Very Richly Blessed!

 

[atpollard]

Present tense, not past tense. And I don't think it means lip service either.

What would it take for you to stop believing that the sky is up and the ground is down?
There are some things that are believed on such a fundamental level that one cannot unbelieve them, so for those truly “born from above”, they cannot stop being new creatures with a new heart and return to believing that God is not God and the Holy Spirit is not changing us from the inside, out.

Believed, Believes, will Believe ... all mean the same thing for those IN CHRIST.
How can a man be unborn?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Friend, I just explained this. A bullet proof vest means a bullet proof vest. Are you going to ignore my question about the need to be wearing the vest in the moment of truth?

What does that have t do with eternal life?

you put a bullet prove vest on, does that guarantee you will not get hurt?

God put eternal life on me, it’s not about me and what I do, it’s about what he did

eternal life is my hope. If I do not have eternal life I have no hope. If I have no hope, I have no faith (faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen)

I can have no hope in your gospel, you have to trust in self in what you do or do not do

my faith is in what God did and what he gave, that’s gives me my hope, my faith and the power to do good,

you do good out of necessity, I do good out of gratitude

huge difference

 

[atpollard]

Can people go from belief into unbelief absolutely if they are not strong in the faith and have a harden heart that leads to disbelief

So Paul lied when he said “if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved” since you only MAY be saved. Ultimately there are no guarantees until you die and are still believing.

So where does that power to believe come from? Do people generate their own faith, so that those that reach Heaven have earned the prize because of their greater work at maintaining belief? Are God’s fingers greasy, so that the Holy Spirit accidentally allows some to slip through His hand by failing to provide enough of the gift of faith from God?

What scripture will you base your understanding on?
For me, WHY someone holds a belief is more important than WHAT belief they hold. Do you believe what you believe because “somebody told you” or because “the word of God says”?
I welcome biblical disagreement, but have little time to waste arguing over opinions.

 

[atpollard]

Amen, Precious friend! "According To The Scriptures":
Salvation is 100 Percent Free

Sort of.
Technically, Salvation is not free. It cost a great deal. WE just did not have to pay the price because we could never have afforded it. So Jesus paid the price and GAVE it to us free of charge (except the obligation to LOVE.)

 

[michaelvpardo]

Jesus said:

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God." [John 3:14-21 NKJV]​

Paul said:

But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." [Romans 10:8-13 NKJV]​

A simple question:
Did they tell the truth, or did they lie to us?

Some people think that their church is more authoritative than scripture but many miss one of the oldest rebukes of the risen Christ to His disciples:
25 Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Luke 24:25
I've encountered many here who simply don't believe "all that the prophets have spoken" and have misinterpreted scripture to suit their own doctrine and belief. It's not a condemning thing, but does tend to corrupt the gospel (which has a number of curses associated with that fault.)

 

[Wrangler]

Believed, Believes, will Believe ... all mean the same thing for those IN CHRIST.
How can a man be unborn?

Ridiculous abuse of language. To answer your question , you have to concede what it takes - PRESENT TENSE - to be born again.

To deny time dependency is to abdicate the field of battle of OSAS.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Only God knows who are his. Who are saved.
Jesus, God incarnate, came to deliver his good news of our eternal irrevocable salvific grace, by conviction, fielty, to his words alone.
What then of those beliefs and the faithful to that, who hold faith this is not so?
The holy spirit brought the gospel and died to seal the new covenant between us and holy spirit with his blood.

Is believing we can overcome God's promise that we cannot do anything to remove ourselves from his hand be blasphemy against the holy spirit?
He died to seal with his blood ("the blood is the life") the promise borne by his ministry to us. Should we say what he promised can be overcome by our will, shall those ones be saved? Were they ever?

If we are new creations redeemed of our former sinful self, through faith in the promise, do we then give that authority to human will and choice? And believe we are able to over come God's work?
Or is God informing us, when we believe that, that the mortal is able to "out-will" immortal God, those ones are not his?
Because those thoughts are the absence of faith in his covenant message.

 

[MatthewG]

Will believers really be saved? (OSAS vs Loss of Salvation)

Do you believe that by faith on the Lord Jesus Christ at the end of this life his purpose will have been fulfilled with-in and by and through you ~ As you continued to walk in faith through all the ups and downs, and people coming and people going, trying to Love God, and Love Others?

Do you believe you saved to the Kingdom of God's Son? (Col 1:13)

Do you doubt or struggle with these doubts?

Do you completely confess in leaving having faith in Christ Jesus? That would be an apostate. They announce they are leaving and departing from faith.

 

[kcnalp]

Luke 13:23-24 (NKJV)
23 Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them,
24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

You don't have to "strive" to be saved. You have to "strive" to stay saved.

OSAS is total myth.

 

[Wrangler]

Friend, I just explained this. A bullet proof vest means a bullet proof vest. Are you going to ignore my question about the need to be wearing the vest in the moment of truth?

What does that have t do with eternal life?

Everything. Wearing a bullet proof vest IN THE MOMENT OF TRUTH has everything to do with eternal life.

Reality works a certain way. Water boils at 100C and freezes at 0C (@ STP). These are present tense conditions. Just because water previously was frozen does not mean it cannot boil. The same soul, can freeze (be saved) and then be boiled (damned). Just like saving $1 now does not mean it cannot be spent tomorrow.

you put a bullet prove vest on, does that guarantee you will not get hurt?

The converse, not wearing it is no guarantee you will remain unhurt. Another good analogy in reality is a condom. Having it but not using it IN THE MOMENT OF TRUTH is not a guarantee of it's advertised benefits. (And there are no guarantees - except death and taxes).

God put eternal life on me, it’s not about me and what I do, it’s about what he did

Just like the manufacturer of the bullet proof vest; it’s not about me and what I do, it’s about what he did.

This syntax 'God put eternal life on me' implies a denial of your ability to take off the bullet proof vest (not believing in Christ as your Savior) IN THE MOMENT OF TRUTH.

 

[07-07-07]

Salvation is not earned. It is gifted and it is ours when we first believe

Eph 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

1 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ,

Stop trying to earn salvation and start LIVING it

We don't earn SALVATION, but we MUST walk worthy of IT.

 

[07-07-07]

You cant HAVE eternal life if it can be lost

that would make it just plain life, or. On eternal life, or more apply conditional life

the Bible did not say those who believe have conditional life or just life, it says we are made alive eternally forever

One can lose Salvation just as much as one found IT.

 

[atpollard]

Luke 13:23-24 (NKJV)
23 Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them,
24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

You don't have to "strive" to be saved. You have to "strive" to stay saved.

OSAS is total myth.

John 6:37-40 [CSB]

"Everyone the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. This is the will of him who sent me: that I should lose none of those he has given me but should raise them up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him will have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."​

So you are saying that NOT EVERYONE “who sees the Son and believes in him” will have eternal life, but only those that STRIVE HARD ENOUGH? Jesus should probably have mentioned that rather than mislead all those people with his false promises in John 6.

Jesus says: "Truly I tell you, anyone who believes has eternal life.” [John 6:47]
kcnalp adds: “... if they STRIVE to stay saved.”

I know whose testimony I WILL BELIEVE!

As for Luke 13 ... context, context, context:

Luke 13:22-30 [NKJV]

And He went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them, "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know you, where you are from,' then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.' But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.' There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last."​

 

[amigo de christo]

John 6:37-40 [CSB]

"Everyone the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. This is the will of him who sent me: that I should lose none of those he has given me but should raise them up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him will have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."​

So you are saying that NOT EVERYONE “who sees the Son and believes in him” will have eternal life, but only those that STRIVE HARD ENOUGH? Jesus should probably have mentioned that rather than mislead all those people with his false promises in John 6.

Jesus says: "Truly I tell you, anyone who believes has eternal life.” [John 6:47]
kcnalp adds: “... if they STRIVE to stay saved.”

I know whose testimony I WILL BELIEVE!

As for Luke 13 ... context, context, context:

Luke 13:22-30 [NKJV]

And He went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them, "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know you, where you are from,' then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.' But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.' There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last."​

The real question is , what version of JESUS do we believe in . cause if its the wrong one , well we never came to HIM .
Folks , i say open bibles and learn every word JESUS ever said , Every word the apostels ever taught
every warning , every reminder , even in revelations and all . LEARN THAT ONE . cause if we came to another jesus
we will be told so on our last day , with these words , I NEVER KNEW YOU . LEARN AND LOVE THE ONE TRUE JESUS .
THE ONE IN THE BIBLE . HE IS THE ONLY ONE TRUE JESUS . YEAH i say LEARN THAT ONE .

 

[atpollard]

One can lose Salvation just as much as one found IT.

I agree, fortunately it was a gift from God and I can no more reverse by spiritual birth than I can reverse my natural birth.

Philippians 1:3-7 [NKJV] 3

I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, always in every prayer of mine making request for you all with joy, for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ; just as it is right for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart, inasmuch as both in my chains and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers with me of grace.
​

Romans 8:28-30 [NKJV]

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.​

Ephesians 1:13-14 [NKJV]

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.​

 

[kcnalp]

John 6:37-40 [CSB]

"Everyone the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. This is the will of him who sent me: that I should lose none of those he has given me but should raise them up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him will have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."​

So you are saying that NOT EVERYONE “who sees the Son and believes in him” will have eternal life, but only those that STRIVE HARD ENOUGH? Jesus should probably have mentioned that rather than mislead all those people with his false promises in John 6.

Jesus says: "Truly I tell you, anyone who believes has eternal life.” [John 6:47]
kcnalp adds: “... if they STRIVE to stay saved.”

I know whose testimony I WILL BELIEVE!

As for Luke 13 ... context, context, context:

Luke 13:22-30 [NKJV]

And He went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them, "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know you, where you are from,' then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.' But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.' There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last."​

YAY! I can NEVER be unsaved even if I forsake God. OSAS says so! Wish I could say the same for OSASers!

 

[kcnalp]

I agree, fortunately it was a gift from God and I can no more reverse by spiritual birth than I can reverse my natural birth.

John 15:6 (NKJV)
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

 

[GracePeace]

I agree, fortunately it was a gift from God and I can no more reverse by spiritual birth than I can reverse my natural birth.

Philippians 1:3-7 [NKJV] 3

I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, always in every prayer of mine making request for you all with joy, for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ; just as it is right for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart, inasmuch as both in my chains and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers with me of grace.
​

Romans 8:28-30 [NKJV]

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.​

Ephesians 1:13-14 [NKJV]

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.​

That idea is what is properly termed "carnal reasoning"--it doesn't result from having read Scripture, and (unintentionally, I'm sure) contradicts Scripture.

1a. You can't lose something you didn't earn? Adam and Eve lost a whole lot that was a "gift" they hadn't earned. How? Sin.
1b. Esau did nothing to get his birthright, but he fumbled and lost it through sinfulness (Scripture indicts him as "immoral").

2. People can "unbecome" God's children :
Deuteronomy 32:5
They have dealt corruptly with him;
they are no longer his children because they are blemished;
they are a crooked and twisted generation.

I'm sure that you will have no problem conforming to Scripture.
Absolutely sure of it.

 

[Amazed@grace]

I agree, fortunately it was a gift from God and I can no more reverse by spiritual birth than I can reverse my natural birth.

Philippians 1:3-7 [NKJV] 3

I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, always in every prayer of mine making request for you all with joy, for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ; just as it is right for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart, inasmuch as both in my chains and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers with me of grace.
​

Romans 8:28-30 [NKJV]

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.​

Ephesians 1:13-14 [NKJV]

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.​

Sorry, I think I'm misunderstanding you there.
When you said you agree with, One can lose Salvation just as much as one found IT, those verses you cite do not say salvation can be lost.
Nor did you concur it can be lost when you said, fortunately it was a gift from God and I can no more reverse by spiritual birth than I can reverse my natural birth.

I'm confused.