new version of OSAS?

[marks]

I guess you meant this question for BB. Well, BB, you're up. Answer his question.

The question is for you. This is more deflection. You seem to have a particular aversion to some sorts of questions. I enjoy asking you those questions.

You are the one who claims that that born again person might abandon their faith. So what does it mean towards who and what you are to be born again?

For me, it means we've been completely changed into a new person, who shares God's nature - patterned after Him - and that our new creation derives it's life from the Holy Spirit in the same way our old creation derived it's life from the body. That we've been reborn a person in spiritual union with our new Father. That this new creation is forever and permanently separated from sin and it's effects.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You are the one who claims that that born again person might abandon their faith.

The Galatians stop believing. And they were born again.

Now show me where it says the exhortation in the Bible to keep believing is actually you trying to earn your own salvation. You are the one making that accusation. So you have to defend that accusation. The ball is in your court, not mine.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

For me, it means we've been completely changed into a new person, who shares God's nature - patterned after Him - and that our new creation derives it's life from the Holy Spirit in the same way our old creation derived it's life from the body. That we've been reborn a person in spiritual union with our new Father. That this new creation is forever and permanently separated from sin and it's effects.

The saved, born again Galatians stopped believing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So what does it mean towards who and what you are to be born again?

I answered this (1 Samuel 10:6), and because you don't like that answer, because it doesn't line up with your predetermined beliefs, you rejected it and claim I did not answer you.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Because it gets trampled on and treated with contempt.

That would be akin to treating somebody with “ contempt” who had just thrown you a rope as you were about to go over a 100 foot Waterfall......it’s a silly, if not stupid illustration of human nature....

 

[marks]

No, no, buddy. You're saying my believing is me working to earn my own salvation and take credit for it. You need to step up with some scripture. The ball is in your court. I'm leveling a direct challenge to your unscriptural accusation of me. You, apparently, are the one that can not respond. Prove to me that you can respond....show me the verse that says 'believing' is me trying to earn my salvation and boast about it.

Go back to the wording I used and address that. Don't just change my wording into something else, and tell me to defend that.

You do realize I've been debating on internet Christian Forums for over 20 years? I'm not going to engage in your fallacies, but I'm going to point them out.

You credit yourself for "keeping believing", you made that choice to do so. Your good choosing kept your saved. Jesus started it, but you finished it. The glory goes to you.

However. Jesus is the originator and consumator of our faith.

Who is it that you think makes some supposed "choice to not believe anymore" anyway? The new creation? That's why I ask, what do you think the new creation is?

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You do realize I've been debating on internet Christian Forums for over 20 years? I'm not going to engage in your fallacies, but I'm going to point them out.

I'm not new to on-line forums either. I've been doing this long enough to know that it's because you don't have a good answer to my challenge that you have to find fault in me. Just give me the scriptural basis for your accusation that someone telling you to keep believing is them telling you that you are trying to take credit for your salvation and earning it by thinking you must continue to believe to the very end.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

However. Jesus is the originator and consumator of our faith.

Yep! And you can take, or you can leave it. Your choice. The Galatians took it, then decided to leave it!

 

[marks]

I answered this (1 Samuel 10:6), and because you don't like that answer, because it doesn't line up with your predetermined beliefs, you rejected it and claim I did not answer you.

Right. And that's all it means to you? Ignore all the NT? When looking at a NT doctrine?

But this one . . . "got a new heart", I guess that fits for you since then you can just get another new heart, the old heart back.

Born again is to become completely new. There's more to than that. And, this assumes that Saul was born again, in the NT sense, something that is accomplished in Jesus' death and resurrection, but not before He died and rose again.

So you see that you accusation of Intellectual Dishonesty falls as flat as the rest.

When your best arguments are fallacies and deflections and accusations, what does that say about your argument?

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You credit yourself for "keeping believing"

Even if I did take the credit (I don't. I can only believe through God's gift of faith), show me specifically in the Bible where God says that is me trying to earn my own salvation.

 

[marks]

I'm not new to on-line forums either. I've been doing this long enough to know that it's because you don't have a good answer to my challenge that you have to find fault in me. Just give me the scriptural basis for your accusation that someone telling you to keep believing is them telling you that you are trying to take credit for your salvation and earning it by thinking you must continue to believe to the very end.

If you've been on these discussions any length of time, I'd think you'd learn to understand when you are and are not using logical fallacies.

Once again, you reword my statements incorrectly. I'm not going to try to defend against what I did not say. This is simply more deflection.

Take snippet of a post . . . put some spin on it . . . why do you bother? But then, it wouldn't do to not give the appearance of responding.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Right. And that's all it means to you? Ignore all the NT? When looking at a NT doctrine?

Don't tell me, lol. Tell Jesus who chastised Nicodemus for not knowing about the born again experience from the OT scriptures that he was supposed to know since he was a teacher of Israel.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you've been on these discussions any length of time, I'd think you'd learn to understand when you are and are not using logical fallacies.

Once again, you reword my statements incorrectly. I'm not going to try to defend against what I did not say. This is simply more deflection.

Take snippet of a post . . . put some spin on it . . . why do you bother? But then, it wouldn't do to not give the appearance of responding.

Much love!

You leveled an accusation. Now you have to back it up. Give me chapter and verse for your accusation. If you can't, be a man and admit it, or just stop posting. I'll accept either.

 

[marks]

Even if I did take the credit (I don't. I can only believe through God's gift of faith), show me specifically in the Bible where God says that is me trying to earn my own salvation.

You DO realize . . . right? that "earn your salvation" was not my words? That I said something different?

Much love!

 

[marks]

You leveled an accusation. Now you have to back it up. Give me chapter and verse for your accusation. If you can't, be a man and admit it, or just stop posting. I'll accept either.

I'm sure you would, and I'll bet you are hoping for the latter.

My words speak for themselves, and so do yours. Stop making yourself a victim. I've made a number of statements, asked questions, which you've consistently deflected from, and you continue to do so, now upping all the drama, I guess trying to make it just go away.

That's OK, stop responding, and there's nothing more to talk about.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I've made a number of statements, asked questions, which you've consistently deflected from

I've answered your questions. You don't like the answers because they don't line up with what you think they should be, so you say I didn't answer them.

 

[marks]

Don't tell me, lol. Tell Jesus who chastised Nicodemus for not knowing about the born again experience from the OT scriptures that he was supposed to know since he was a teacher of Israel.

Jesus has given you all sorts of information Nicodemus didn't have, so you might just avail yourself of it. If knowledge and understanding are what you want, there is much there to be had. If that's not your goal, and you'd rather use a passage that doesn't actually fit the topic, and ignore all the rest, them maybe you have a reason for that.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I've answered your questions. You don't like the answers because they don't line up with what you think they should be, so you say I didn't answer them.

Again, deflecting with gaslighting and accusation of intellectual dishonesty.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That's OK, stop responding, and there's nothing more to talk about.

If you keep accusing me of trying to earn my salvation by doing what the Bible tells us to do, which is continue believing, then I will continue to challenge you to show me in the Bible where it says that obeying what the Bible says to do (continue believing) is me trying to earn my own salvation and boast about it. So you are the one who has to decide if you're going to keep posting.

 

[marks]

Do this dance enough, and the relevant posts get so buried no one will notice.

I'll leave you to it.

Much love!