new version of OSAS?

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Regarding this people, our natural thinking tells us that those whom He chooses are those whom He knows are righteous, have good intentions, does good works, etc. Perhaps we are right. But that remains just to be only what we think.

All natural reason aside, I like to just go to the Bible. What I've learned is that we are all equally completely ruined by sin. There are none who have good intentions, not in the way God figures.

Yes.

Tong2020 said: ↑
And that is the point, that God saves and is the One saving, and that salvation is of God and God’s work, and is not in any way shape or form, of man and the work of man.

I agree. Only, I've also come to conclude that God has sovereignly decreeded what cannot be overturned, that man must make a choice either for or against Him, and that choice will not be made for Him by God.

I'm going to try to find the MacArthur study. It really was good! If I do, I'll put up a link for you.

Much love!

There is no denying on my part that man must make a choice, to believe or not believe. What I am saying is that such only comes to the man after the fact that God had chosen him. Let me try to expound that below.

As I pointed out, scriptures teaches us concerning the grace of God’s salvation, that it is by election of grace. That God gives mercy to whom he wills to give it. I don’t read anything in scriptures that effectively tells me that God offers His mercy and gives it to whomever accept it. That He gave (not as a matter of offer) Jesus Christ to save His people (Jews and Gentiles). When Jesus came, the salvation of God came, and not the offer of salvation came. When Jesus came, grace and truth came, not the offer of grace and truth came. When Jesus came, faith came, not the offer of faith came.

Jesus said He came into the world to bear witness to the truth (not to offer truth). And in conjunction to this, He said, “Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.” (Jn.18:37). “Everyone” is qualified and modified by the phrase “who is of God”. I see by that, that there are people who can hear and do hear, and people who can’t and don’t. Those who don’t hear His voice, would clearly be people who are not of the truth, and those who hears would be people who are of the truth. They are such people before the fact of hearing or not, and not after the fact. In other words, if a person hears, it does not make him become one who is of the truth. Rather, it reveals him to be one of the people Jesus refers to in John 18:37.

Now, there is much about the matter of hearing the voice of Jesus. It is connected to many things pertaining to the salvation of God, such as spiritual understanding, conviction, repentance, and faith. And him who is given faith, is him who believes and is saved.

It is easy for many to see that his choosing is made by him, and not forcibly but freely and willfully, and that it is not God choosing for him. But it seems that many do not see, if not, find it difficult to see where his choosing is coming from.

It is sad there are people who seem to not see the grace of God’s salvation in that light because of the matter of free will. That seemingly, somehow, holding to one’s free will is what prevents one from seeing that.

Should not the faithful hold on to nothing about themselves and should instead be holding on Jesus Christ, who is the way, the truth, the resurrection, and the life? I am persuaded that I should.

Tong
R3878

 

[marks]

Jesus said He came into the world to bear witness to the truth (not to offer truth). And in conjunction to this, He said, “Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.” (Jn.18:37). “Everyone” is qualified and modified by the phrase “who is of God”. I see by that, that there are people who can hear and do hear, and people who can’t and don’t. Those who don’t hear His voice, would clearly be people who are not of the truth, and those who hears would be people who are of the truth. They are such people before the fact of hearing or not, and not after the fact. In other words, if a person hears, it does not make him become one who is of the truth. Rather, it reveals him to be one of the people Jesus refers to in John 18:37.

I do understand the different sides of this particular question.

Jesus said that no one could come to Him UNLESS His Father drew them.

But Jesus also said, If I be lifted up, I will draw ALL men to myself.

Jesus was clear that in His time before the cross, only the Father drew people to Him, and He had only come to the Lost Sheep of Israel.

Now He draws all men to Himself, and the Gospel has gone out to all the world.

Much love!

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Jesus said He came into the world to bear witness to the truth (not to offer truth). And in conjunction to this, He said, “Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.” (Jn.18:37). “Everyone” is qualified and modified by the phrase “who is of God”. I see by that, that there are people who can hear and do hear, and people who can’t and don’t. Those who don’t hear His voice, would clearly be people who are not of the truth, and those who hears would be people who are of the truth. They are such people before the fact of hearing or not, and not after the fact. In other words, if a person hears, it does not make him become one who is of the truth. Rather, it reveals him to be one of the people Jesus refers to in John 18:37.

I do understand the different sides of this particular question.

Jesus said that no one could come to Him UNLESS His Father drew them.

But Jesus also said, If I be lifted up, I will draw ALL men to myself.

Jesus was clear that in His time before the cross, only the Father drew people to Him, and He had only come to the Lost Sheep of Israel.

Now He draws all men to Himself, and the Gospel has gone out to all the world.

Much love!

It was clearly declared by John the baptist concerning Jesus, that He is the Lamb of God who take away the sin of the world. As such the Savior, not only of the Jews but also of the Gentiles. Yes, of Jews first, and then of Gentiles.

<<<Now He draws all men to Himself, and the Gospel has gone out to all the world.>>>

Yes scriptures does say in:

John 12:32
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”

But I take that the drawing there is not like the drawing by the Father spoken in John 6. And that all peoples there does not mean to each and every individual person, but to all groups or nation of people. It is a way of saying, not only the people of Israel, the Jews, but all peoples of the world, the Gentile people.

Finally, while the gospel may well has gone out to all the world, what Jesus said in John 18:37 remains. That there are people who are not of the truth, who will not hear, and there are people who are of the truth, who will hear.

Tong
R3879

 

[Cooper]

I do understand the different sides of this particular question.

Jesus said that no one could come to Him UNLESS His Father drew them.

But Jesus also said, If I be lifted up, I will draw ALL men to myself.

Jesus was clear that in His time before the cross, only the Father drew people to Him, and He had only come to the Lost Sheep of Israel.

Now He draws all men to Himself, and the Gospel has gone out to all the world.

Much love!

Father and Son are One. It was the Word who created the heaven and the earth, and Jesus is the Word in the Flesh come down from heavens glory in the likeness of man.
.

 

[ChristisGod]

So, I ask you in this new thread: what do you believe about the new version of OSAS?

The version that says that if you stop believing, you even continue to be saved?

What happened to justbyfaith?

 

[marks]

What happened to justbyfaith?

Yes, I don't know! He's been vanished for a while!

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

What happened to justbyfaith?

I remember him saying he would be pulling back for a bit. I think he will be back