John 3 - Born of Water and Spirit
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There is no "water birth". The "water" of the Word of God (Eph 5) is the Gospel. The preaching of the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Rom 1:16). And only those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are born of the Spirit (born again, born from above, born of God, regenerated).
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
As jesus said in John 5. The words I speak are spirit and they are life.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
In Bible prophecy, the 'sea' and the 'land' are actually synonymous with each other...
Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea. Daniel 7:3
‘The four great beasts are four kings that will rise from the earth. Daniel 7:17
In other words, the beasts rise from 'the sea and the earth'. Now, do you want to insist that Jesus is also saying, "no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the land and the Spirit."? Probably not. It should be no surprise to you that, in the Bible, the same metaphor can be used to represent to very distinct and different things. For example, spiritual circumcision refers to cutting off the flesh from the heart (Colossians 2:11), and yet Ezekiel speaks of the day God would give his people hearts of flesh (Ezekiel 36:26). Two uses of the metaphor 'flesh' but which are entirely and completely in contradiction to each other when taken out of the context they are used in.
It's so obvious. I don't understand peoples' need to deny.
I guess they are just so proud they came up with, invented, an idea, rather than letting the author come up with ideas for us and feed us like baby birds.
Water baptism has nothing to do with spiritual baptism....but both have implied being fully immersed in the element of each, physical and spiritual.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Huh?
"...unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. " John 3:5
Or do you mean no literal water birth?
So, the article says "water baptism is not spiritual baptism"?
Well, John 3 is talking about a birth, so I would hope he would have something to say about the birth.
To say "water baptism and spiritual baptism aren't the same" is directly relevant is to assume this has to do with baptism.
He means "water and Spirit" refers to the same birth--that there is no separate distinct "water birth".
Yep, the Word and the Spirit are two separate "Persons" of "the Trinity", and yet they are bound tightly together, inseparable.
Do you know how many times baptism is mentioned in the new testament and each time it references something different.
Totally false teaching here....water baptism is a ritual of acceptance into Christianity....Jesus was baptized as a fulfillment of righteousness....we become righteous through Him.
We're asking what "born of water and Spirit" means.
"Baptism" is only indirectly related because some insist that that's its meaning.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
They are not the same birth however. They are two different births,
You've misunderstood : you're conflating my assertion that "water and Spirit" refers to "being born of God" together with an assumption you have that I must therefore reject the necessity of water baptism.
LOL What are they then??? Are you saying you have to be born of each member of the Trinity? Three new births--one of the Word, one of the Spirit, one of the Father? LOL The Water is the Word--when you receive the Word of the Spirit you are born of God.
I'm not sure what you're saying here.
Are you saying "Jesus was water baptized as an act of righteousness--He fulfilled all righteousness for us so that we don't have to" or "Just as Jesus had to do what was right and be water baptized so also we must be water baptized"?
I do believe baptism is necessary, since it seems we are justified by faith but we maintain justification by "walking in the same footsteps of faith as Abraham"--ie, failure to walk by faith (ie, doing things we doubt are correct) constitutes "sin" by which justification is compromised (more discussion here).
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
It’s sad they did not interpret that word, instead they transliterated it, if they interpreted the word I do not think we would have so much issues
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I respect that view from the passage, but I think 'water' and 'Spirit' is referring to two different things, not a sum total of 'water and Spirit'.
As I've shared, what tipped me off was the two 'births' Paul talks about in Galatians 4:29. A 'fleshly' birth, and a 'spiritual' birth. The connection between 'Spirit' and the spiritual birth is obvious. But maybe no so obvious between 'water' and the fleshly birth. Thus the reason for our discussion. But given the context of John 3 you can see the connection between John's baptism for repentance and drawing people back to the law in obedience to God, and the fleshly birth of the legalist Paul is talking about in Galatians 4.
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Born of water is one birth. - that which is born of flesh is flesh
born of the spirit is the other birth - that which is born of spirit is spirit
by saying born again by defenition signifies their is more than one birth “Again”
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