WHAT IS THE WATER IN JOHN 3:5?

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FaithWillDo

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You quote the scriptures, but you do not understand what you are quoting, and in your ignorance you judge me.

You quoted:

But you do not understand. How is the Fall rain also the Spring rain? How is David's Lord also his Son? How did Jesus save--both Israel and the Church, who came in their own times--in one day? You have not answered correctly, but you yourself who accuse me of conjecture and going beyond the scriptures, only have your own confused and cloudy ideas. You have not even considered that my "teacher" is God, and what I have told you is not only written, was also sealed--but given to me as foretold.

You are an offense.
You quote the scriptures, but you do not understand what you are quoting, and in your ignorance you judge me.

You quoted:

But you do not understand. How is the Fall rain also the Spring rain? How is David's Lord also his Son? How did Jesus save--both Israel and the Church, who came in their own times--in one day? You have not answered correctly, but you yourself who accuse me of conjecture and going beyond the scriptures, only have your own confused and cloudy ideas. You have not even considered that my "teacher" is God, and what I have told you is not only written, was also sealed--but given to me as foretold.

You are an offense.
Dear ScottA,
Yes, I judge you because we are commanded to judge those within the church who contradict the teachings of Christ. For those who are outside the church, we are not to judge them at this time.

1Cor 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

1Cor 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

1Cor 6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

Tit 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.


You asked:
But you do not understand. How is the Fall rain also the Spring rain?

Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.

Joel 2:23 does not say that the Latter Rain is the same as the Early Rain. It only says that the time between them is shortened so that they will both fall in the same month. This shortening of time applies only to the salvation of the Nation of Israel in the final age as they are being judged in the Lake of Fire by the Elect.

Is Joel 2:23 the only scripture that you have to support your understanding? You are reading into that verse things that are not there.

You said:
You have not even considered that my "teacher" is God, and what I have told you is not only written, was also sealed--but given to me as foretold.

So I should just take your word for it that what you teach comes from God? Again, where is your scripture to support what you are saying?
You have not provided even one verse that supports your understanding and you will not address all the many, many verses that I have provided that contradict your teaching. Why should anyone believe what you are saying when you are going beyond what is written?

Paul would say to you "what saith the scripture?" Where is your scripture?

Consider this scripture:


Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Paul says that the Bereans were more noble because they searched the scriptures daily to make sure that what he told them was true. You are not doing as the Bereans did.

Also, scripture says that a person will only have the ability to learn the New Covenant teachings of Christ AFTER they have been given the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Spirit of Truth/Latter Rain).

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

It is the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain) that heals a believer's spiritual blindness (Mark 8:15-25). After a believer has received the Spirit of Truth within themselves, it will guide them in their understanding. If you look for truth outside of scripture, you will not find it. God's Word is our source of truth and the Spirit of Truth is what guides us to find it.

When Christ made His statement in John 16:13 to the disciples, they had only been given the Early Rain at that time. With the Early Rain, they received a measure of faith and could accept Jesus as their Lord. How do I know this? Because of what this verse says:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

If the disciples did not already have the Early Rain of the Spirit, they could not have called Jesus "Lord". And from what Christ said in John 16:13, we can know that they did not have the baptism of the Holy Spirit yet. The Latter Rain had not yet fallen on them.

When the disciples were converted on the Day of Pentecost, they had BOTH the Early and Latter Rains just as James said they needed.

All believers (both Jews and Gentiles) start off following Christ because they are given the Early Rain of the Spirit. It is this small measure of the Spirit that gives a person the ability & desire to call Jesus "Lord". Without that small measure of the Spirit, a person will remain an unbeliever. For those who are given the Early Rain, they must do as the disciples did and wait for Christ's return to give them the Latter Rain. Only then will a person be converted and saved.

Since you are not receptive to what scripture is teaching on the Early and Latter Rain concept, it is time to end our discussion.

Joe
 

Davy

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This is John 3:5 NASB
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless
* one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot * enter into the kingdom of God.


Some believe water to be:
The word of God
Baptismal water
Natural birth

There might be other understandings that are not listed.

I tend to go with either natural birth or baptismal water.
Either can seem correct to me.

Please state what you believe and why.
Appreciated...

Both, natural birth, and spiritual birth.

Nicodemus understood Jesus to be speaking of being born again a second time in woman's womb, which is wrong.

Jesus then revealed that one must born of BOTH, water (natural birth) and of The Spirit. Christ's Salvation only applies to those born in the flesh, and not to the angels. Thus birth through the water of woman's womb is a requirement.

Then... Jesus explains that which is born of the flesh is flesh, but that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. That means our 'spirit' inside our flesh body must be born of The Holy Spirit.

Water baptism is to represent... being born from above by The Spirit. The KJV phrase "born again" actually means 'born from above' in the Greek.
 
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ScottA

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So I should just take your word for it that what you teach comes from God? Again, where is your scripture to support what you are saying?
You have not provided even one verse that supports your understanding and you will not address all the many, many verses that I have provided that contradict your teaching. Why should anyone believe what you are saying when you are going beyond what is written?
You go on and on and claim that the scriptures that I have given to you contradict those you give. However, there is no contradiction...and you have failed in your attempt to search the scriptures.

Nor do you know me, or you would know that what I have told you was foretold, and of me. But why should I give testimony of myself, when you do not even recognize what I have told you that is indeed written? The answer is, I should not, and will not.

As I said, believe it or not. That is on you. So shall it be written.
 

David in NJ

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Since the Lamb is symbolic of Abraham's Seed, it all seems to line up pretty well. Jesus was born of the 'waters' of the Father.
Your statement is derived from "exegesis"

But it is 'eisegesis' = so maybe change your name to 'eisegesis'

How was Jesus born?