Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?

[Curtis]

OSAS is a sloppy phrase.
I believe in Perseverance of the Saints, explained in this quote from R.C. Sproul as follows:

"Writing to the Philippians, Paul says, “He who has begun a good work in you will perfect it to the end” (Phil. 1:6). Therein is the promise of God that what He starts in our souls, He intends to finish. So the old axiom in Reformed theology about the perseverance of the saints is this: If you have it—that is, if you have genuine faith and are in a state of saving grace—you will never lose it. If you lose it, you never had it."

We know that many people make professions of faith, then turn away and repudiate or recant those professions. The Apostle John notes that there were those who left the company of the disciples, and he says of them, “Those who went out from us were never really with us” (1 John 2:19). Of course, they were with the disciples in terms of outward appearances before they departed. They had made an outward profession of faith, and Jesus makes it clear that it is possible for a person to do this even when he doesn’t possess what he’s professing. Jesus says, “This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me” (Matt. 15:8). Jesus even warns at the end of the Sermon on the Mount that at the last day, many will come to Him, saying: “Lord, Lord, didn’t we do this in your name? Didn’t we do that in your name?” He will send them away, saying: “Depart from Me, you workers of iniquity. I never knew you” (Matthew 7:23). He will not say: “I knew you for a season and then you went sour and betrayed Me. No, you never were part of My invisible church.” The whole purpose of God’s election is to bring His people safely to heaven; therefore, what He starts He promises to finish. He not only initiates the Christian life, but the Holy Spirit is with us as the sanctifier, the convictor, and the helper to ensure our preservation.

I want to stress that this endurance in the faith does not rest on our strength. Even after we’re regenerated, we still lapse into sin, even serious sin. We say that it is possible for a Christian to experience a very serious fall, we talk about backsliding, we talk about moral lapses, and so on. I can’t think of any sin, other than blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, that a truly converted Christian is not capable of committing.

We look, for example, at the model of David in the Old Testament. David was surely a man after God’s own heart. He was certainly a regenerate man. He had the Spirit of God in Him. He had a profound and passionate love for the things of God. Yet this man not only committed adultery but also was involved in a conspiracy to have his lover’s husband killed in war—which was really conspiracy to murder. That’s serious business. Even though we see the serious level of repentance to which David was brought as a result of the words of the prophet Nathan to him, the point is that David fell, and he fell seriously.

The apostle Paul warns us against having a puffed-up view of our own spiritual strength. He says, “Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall” (1 Cor. 10:12). We do fall into very serious activities. The Apostle Peter, even after being forewarned, rejected Christ, swearing that he never knew Him—a public betrayal of Jesus. He committed treason against His Lord. When he was being warned of this eventuality, Peter said it would never happen. Jesus said, “Simon, Simon, Satan would have you and sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you, so that when you turn, strengthen the brothers” (Luke 22:31-32).Peter fell, but he returned. He was restored. His fall was for a season. That’s why we say that true Christians can have radical and serious falls but never total and final falls from grace.

I think this little catchphrase, perseverance of the saints, is dangerously misleading. It suggests that the perseverance is something that we do, perhaps in and of ourselves. I believe that saints do persevere in faith, and that those who have been effectually called by God and have been reborn by the power of the Holy Spirit endure to the end. However, they persevere not because they are so diligent in making use of the mercies of God. The only reason we can give why any of us continue on in the faith is because we have been preserved. So I prefer the term the preservation of the saints, because the process by which we are kept in a state of grace is something that is accomplished by God. My confidence in my preservation is not in my ability to persevere. My confidence rests in the power of Christ to sustain me with His grace and by the power of His intercession. He is going to bring us safely home.
​

To describe this as a "license to sin" is to be ignorant of what the Reformed (Particular Baptists in my case) believe and what Scripture teaches.

 

[theefaith]

I'm sure most will immediately disagree, and rightly so. Jesus' fulfilling of the Spirit of the Law in us does not permit us to break the Letter of the Law.

Yes, the Letter of the Law is a killer, but to whom? To him who attempts to obtain salvation through observing it - which is impossible, according to Romans 8:7 KJV and Luke 17:10 KJV. But, to the Christian who keeps the Spirit of the Law forbidding lust - and by that will automatically be keeping the Letter of the Law forbidding the act of adultery - to him, it is not a killer, but a "Law of Liberty".

So, if the fact that Jesus is our truth, reward, and faithfulness does not permit us to lie, steal, or fornicate...why do so many claim that since Jesus is their spiritual rest, they may freely break the fourth commandment? To the contrary, if Jesus is indeed our inward Spiritual rest, we will demonstrate that by outward obedience to the fourth commandment, according to Hebrews 4:9-10 KJV. The only rest God ever took was literal rest from His work of creation on the seventh day; the only day upon which He rested, blessed it, and sanctified it. If He is indeed our spiritual rest, we ought to evidence that by literally resting on the seventh day Sabbath day. Need I remind anyone, it's not the fourth "suggestion", it's the Fourth Commandment, right or wrong?

now we have a new creation
New covenant
Behold I make all things new
New creation in Christ
New sabbath the Lord’s day
Resurrection

 

[robert derrick]

Deuteronomy 31:24-26 KJV says the handwriting that was "against" us was the handwriting of Moses in the Mosaic Law which was placed OUTSIDE the Ark and contained penalties and curses...

...while the Ten Commandments, which were placed INSIDE the Ark and contained blessing and promises.

The Biblical distinction between the Mosaic and the Moral Laws are easily seen for anyone willing to be honest with themselves, but to those who wish to lump both together so that both can be nailed to the Cross, they do so against the will of God.

The whole law does not include the Moral law? Or the tables of the covenant and testimony in the ark?

So there is a distinction between the commandments of God and the law of God by Moses, as in the commandments on tables of stone were not part of or written in the law of Moses?

"To keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law." (Deut 30)

The commandments are written in the book of the law. The whole law includes all commandments and statutes of God.

But not specifically the 10 commandments engraved on tables by the finger of God?

The first two tables written on by the finger of God were broken by Moses. They were never placed in the ark of the covenant.

The 2 tables placed in the ark were the tables Moses wrote upon for 40 days and nights without food or drink, which writing 10 commandments only did not take. ALL the law was written by God on those two tables of His testimony and covenant and placed inside the Ark of the testimony, the ark of the covenant.

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them." (Ex 24)

"And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments." (Ex 34)

And so, contrary to 'specialists' in Sabbath keeping and modern myth from the movie 'The Ten Commandments', ALL the words of the book of the Law, as well as, the ten commandments that God had first written on the first stones, were written by Moses at the mouth of the Lord in the mount, were placed within the ark of the covenant.

"And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him in mount Sinai." (Ex 34)

And all the law of Moses given by God is in commandment of God to His people, it is all One law and one manner of law (Numbers 15): no parsing, no distinguishing difference in importance nor moral distinction, no dividing between in the ark and out of the ark:

The testimony that Moses finally put into the ark, was the testimony of the covenant of all the words of the Lord commanded in the book of His law. (Ex 40:20)

The false assumption of only the ten commandments written on two tables of stone, causes the whole argument of 'specialty' of the ten commandments as untouchably eternal, without change, and outside the book of the law that has changed is false.

The commandment of the Sabbath outside and distinct from the rest of the law is false. And Sabbath keeping by commandment of law of Christ is false. And the necessity of judging other believers accordingly is false.

Sabbath keeping by command in the New Covenant is exactly the same Judaizing command to be circumcised by law. Both were law of Moses under the Levitical priesthood of the New Covenant, and neither is written in the book of the Law of Christ as commandment of God to all believers.

Therefore, they who keep any point or commandment of law of Moses are debtors to keep the whole law of Moses, including all commandments and statues written by Moses and placed in the ark of testimony; including Sabbaths, circumcision, and offering of sacrifice on the 8th day after the seven days of purification before the Levitical priest to present to the Lord:

"And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord, As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord; And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons." (Luke 2)

If any Sabbath keeper by commandment of God does not circumcise and offer sacrifice and present to the Lord any male offspring to the Levitical priest, then they are guilty of the whole law of Moses.

Unless, of course there is no such law for the people of God in Christ Jesus, since such law was written under the Levitical priesthood, which is wholly changed to that of Jesus and His saints, as well as the law of Moses into that of Christ.

 

[Phoneman777]

"stand fast forever and ever" according to Psalms 111:7-8 KJV

The Old Covenant was everlasting (Gen 17), and now it is...Old.

If we're going to debate, we need to stay Biblical.

Genesis 17 was the Covenant with Abraham, not the "Old Covenant" at Sinai 400+ years later - the Abrahamic Covenant is essentially the "New Covenant" for all true descendants of Abraham - Christians.

 

[Phoneman777]

now we have a new creation
New covenant
Behold I make all things new
New creation in Christ
New sabbath the Lord’s day
Resurrection

You can read the Bible from Gen to Rev and you will not find a single text establishing Sunday as God's Covenant day. However, the Bible says the "Lord's day" is the seventh day Sabbath, both in Isaiah 58:13 KJV and Mark 2:27-28 KJV.

The Ten Commandments are the Law written on the heart of New Covenant Christians, including the seventh day Sabbath. Why do so many "Christians" break it and have no intention of repenting?

 

[Phoneman777]

So to take that a little further, if the first grade student took the PhD' exam, he would fail it. Did God expect us to fail his admonition to be holy, even as he is holy.

God also told us in Matthew 5 to be perfect, even as he is perfect. I believe God wants us to be holy, even as he is holy. It may take some time to reach that grade of holiness, but eventually I believe God has opened the door for us to be just like him.

If we have to be perfect as God is perfect in order to get to heaven, NONE of us are going to make it.

The Just Man falls, does he not? Perfection "in our sphere" even as He is perfect "in His sphere".

 

[Phoneman777]

The Old Covenant letter of the law (i.e.the act of adultery) could never make anyone righteous, because lust was still there. I think you agree? But that is because the carnal nature was present and Jesus had not died yet to free us from that curse.

The New Covenant of Spirit, is far deeper to the core of us where our nature resides. That is why Jesus has provided His Own Spirit to come into us making us born again of a new nature like His, that has no desire to sin, and does not lust after another person's spouse in their heart. 1 John 3:5-9.

The Old Letter of the Law was far harder to live, because we were powerless, and our nature was in opposition to the law and is a complete struggle to fight against the flesh.

The New Spirit of the Law would be far harder for someone without a new nature, but for a born again of the Spirit Christian the law of LOVE is now our nature and we naturally want righteousness without any struggle at all. "My yoke is easy and my burden is light."

The "Old Covenant" was not the "letter of the law".

This confusion will cease when people learn what a "covenant" is -- an "agreement". This Old Covenant consisted of two COMPONENTS: "blessings" and "obedience", with God promising the one, and Israel, the other.

Therefore, it is DISHONEST to say "the Old Covenant was the law". WRONG. The law was a COMPONENT and the blessings were a COMPONENT.

Anyone who insists "the Old Covenant was the law" needs to try and replace "old Covenant" with "law" in Romans 3:31 KJV - they will immediately see that they have been laboring under a "false equivalence" delusion, and hopefully come to a proper understanding of what the law had to do with the Old Covenant -- it was a COMPONENT of it.

 

[Phoneman777]

No, they are not. The Law of Liberty is not based on the Ten Commandments; it goes far deeper to be ultimately righteous, not just in the letter of the Law.

I agree that OSAS is a false doctrine.

You said: "he (Jesus) tells us we need to prepare to be judged by the Ten Commandmetns" but you didn't give a scripture reference of where He said that. May I see it please?

Of course the Law of Liberty goes beyond the Ten Commandments - Isaiah prophesied Jesus would "magnify the law" which is what He did when He came and said lust was just as bad as adultery and hate was just as bad as killing.

What we need to understand is that the Spirit of the Sabbath Commandment does not grant authorization to refuse obedience to keeping the Sabbath Commandment.

 

[Phoneman777]

Archangel is a term a rank. It is merely an angel with rank over other angels.

You can insist all you want it's a "rank" but it does not make it so. The word means "ruler of angels", which is what Jesus is - He created them, He rules them, not some ordinary angel.

Jesus isn't "like" God... He IS God.

Are you going to rip Daniel 7 out of your Bible, for Daniel said of Jesus, "...one LIKE the Son of Man came..."

If you're going to refuse "Who is like God" as referring to Jesus, then please be consistent and rip out Daniel 7 from your Bible where Daniel refers to Jesus as "one like the Son of Man".

 

[Phoneman777]

What you don't understand is that if you truly LOVE, the Law of Liberty, you can't hate, so therefore won't murder or steal or lie or commit adultery. (The Law of Liberty is NOT the Ten Commandments.) So by LOVE you cannot break any of the old Ten Commandments, and why they are obsolete. Don't you understand that with them, you could still hate and not be perfect as the Father is perfect? They were only in place UNTIL Jesus brought forth the Covenant of the SPIRIT, and sinlessness, and no longer the LETTER by the carnal flesh.

So you see how ridiculous it is to say that without the Ten Commandments we believe we can murder, when it would be impossible if you truly loved.

What is ridiculous is claiming the Ten Commandments are no longer the obligation for the Christian.

Can a man simultaneously raise his hands to his neighbor's bedroom ceiling in praise while ejaculating in his neighbor's wife? Of course not - if we're keeping the Spirit of the Law, WE AUTOMATICALLY WILL BE KEEPING THE LETTER.

Jesus came to MAGNIFY them, not destroy them, as both Isaiah 42:21 KJV and Matthew 5:17-20 KJV positively say, so why do people think the Spirit of the Law does away with the Letter of the Law?

Try this: hold a pair of eyeglasses with both hands up to your Bible and look through them. Now, did the words disappear, or did they MAGNIFY? Likewise, Jesus did not abolish the Ten Commandments, He MAGNIFIED them.

 

[Phoneman777]

There’s NO DISTINCTION within the law of Moses (and the Ten Commandments)

So, when Paul referred to the law as "carnal" in one place and then referred to the law as "holy, just, and good" in another place, he was talking about the same law...therefore, Paul is schitzo. Got it.

 

[Phoneman777]

Hello @Phoneman777,

There is no problem.

Daniel 10:13, 21; Daniel 12:1; Jude 1:9; Revelation 12:7, are the only references, within their context, which mention Michael: and only within their framework do we find any information concerning him directly. There may be indirect references to him that I am unaware of, but these only contain direct reference to his name, and give us any knowledge of 'who' and 'what' he is, and what he does.

It is not for us to conjecture or to imply anything concerning him which is not verifiable by what is written down in God's word.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

The Bible declares both explicit and implicit truths, so there's nothing wrong with properly identifying either when they are Biblically established.

For instance, "thou shalt not kill" is explicit. "Thou shalt not kill quickly with a bullet or slowly with poison" is implicit.

You should know that the Bible uses the same word "pele'" to refer to Jesus as "wonderful" in Isaiah 9:6 KJV and "secret" when referring to the "Angel of the Lord" in the book of Judges when the Angel appears to Manoah.

That "Angel" was JESUS manifesting Himself as the "Angel of the Lord" where He took the name "Michael", just as when He later manifested Himself as a man and took the name "Jesus".

 

[Phoneman777]

First of all, Jesus said they would be least in heaven, not be in the lake of fire.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Yes, those in heaven will look upon those down breaking the law/teaching others to do as they are, and in heaven will say to each other, "wow, they are the least".

Secondly, when you make keeping an ended day of rest a requirement of salvation, you’ve put yourself under the law, fallen from grace, and made Christ of no effect unto you, warned Paul.

Disobedience is not the disease, it's the symptom. Deciding to turn from God after we've repented is the disease, and lawbreaking is merely the fruit of that decision.

"Blesses are they which DO HIS COMMANDMENTS" because they go to heaven, according to John...because the "doing" is evidence of repentance, while "not doing" exposes countless "Christians" as hypocrites who know not Jesus and will go to hell. See? Works are the evidence of faith, and likewise, the absence of works are the evidence of hypocrisy.

 

[Phoneman777]

Not "US" ... My ancestors were inventing stories about THOR and nailing Christ to a tree.
The OT was NEVER given to ME. Christ offered me the real "good news" that "If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” [see Romans 10 for context]

So I did and He did.

That means that "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ." [see Colossians 2 for context].

I delight in the reality and leave the shadows of the law behind. I am at rest EVERY DAY from the labor of striving to be Holy (God made me Holy in Christ already) which leaves me free to engage in true worship by doing good on every day, including the Sabbath. [see Luke 6 for context]

No wonder you've concluded things as you've done...you keep confusing the Mosaic Law with the Moral Law. Here's proof the Bible puts a difference between the two:

The Mosaic Law was written by the hand of Moses, written on scrolls, placed outside the Ark, and was against them by virtue of the penalties and curses contained therein (Deuteronomy 31:24-26 KJV).......but in contrast, the Ten Commandment Law of God was written with His finger (Exodus 31:18 KJV), on both sides of stone tablets (Exodus 32:15 KJV), placed inside the Ark (Exodus 25:16 KJV), and contained blessings, not curses (Exodus 20:11 KJV; Exodus 20:12 KJV).


In 2 Kings 21:8 KJV, God promises Israel permanent residence if they keep His Law and the Mosaic law.



In 2 Chronicles 33:8 KJV, God promises the same if they will obey His Law and the Mosaic Law.


In Daniel 9:11KJV, he confessed that his people disobeyed the God's Law and the Mosaic Law.


In Deuteronomy 4:13-14 KJV, Moses says God commanded the people to keep His Law and commanded Moses to give them the Mosaic Law.


In Leviticus 23:37-38 KJV, God said the annual Feast Day sabbaths of the Jews in the Mosaic Law were "besides" the weekly Sabbaths of the Lord contained in the Ten Commandments.


In Romans 7:12 KJV, Paul refers to God's Law (identified as such by his reference to the Tenth Commandment in Romans 7:7 KJV) as "holy, just, and good", but refers to the Mosaic Law concerning the Levitical priesthood as a "carnal" commandment in Hebrews 7:16 KJV


The Ten Commandments existed before Mount Sinai: Cain knew murder was wrong; Abraham knew lying was wrong; Abraham also kept God's "charge, commandments, statutes, and laws"; Rachel knew stealing was wrong; Jacob knew idolatry in the form of jewelry was wrong; Joseph knew adultery was wrong; and God chided with the children of Israel in Exodus 16:28 KJV for not keeping "My Laws" because they broke the Sabbath Commandment before they even got anywhere near Mount Sinai in chapter 20.


Paul says in Galatians 3:19 KJV that the Mosaic Law was "added because of transgression" -- transgression of an already existing law: the Ten Commandments -- "until the Seed should come". When Jesus was crucified, the Mosaic Law was nailed to the Cross with Him (Colossians 2:14-17 KJV) while the Ten Commandments will "stand fast forever and ever" (Psalms 111:7:8 KJV).

 

[atpollard]

Your whole argument rests on the belief that only them who never had, turn back from what they never had.

And you quote Jesus as saying I never knew you, as proof He never could have, which is humanist reasoning, and not Scriptural truth:

"When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered."(Ezek 3:20)

Your carnal application of Scripture in fact eliminates the necessity of warning the righteous not to turn from righteousness, that he die not, and his righteousness be remembered no more, and the Lord say in that day, "I never knew you", because his name is blotted out of the book of Life. (Rev 3:5)

It is also a denial of the true doctrine of God, that you no doubt would preach, in that if the wicked turn from his wickedness to the righteousness of God, then his wickedness shall no more be remembered, and him that was not known is now known of the Lord. (Ezek 33) (Isaiah 65:1)

Therefore, your whole case falls apart, and your doctrine is false.

Well, if you can cheery pick verses from Ezekiel to completely miss the point that God was making in that chapter, then you must be right.

 

[Phoneman777]

Ad Hominem is not a legitimate refutation, but an informal logical fallacy.

You have demonstrated the art of "waiting to speak" rather than "listening" since your conclusions are non-sequitur to the actual statements that I made in my post. I invite you to go back and actually READ what I posted before you attempt to refute it.

"Those who speak before they listen are answering questions that nobody is asking."
Try again and I will get back to you.

No thanks...I'm not going to waste my time with someone who thinks it's OK to "crucify the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame." Because, that's exactly what you said salvation is: a License to keep on sinning.

 

[Phoneman777]

You're quoting "Sherlock Holmes" and saying I "don't have a clue"? You should read your own posts!

You should read why Adam Clarke, Matthew Henry, Spurgeon, and so many others considered Biblical evidence for why Michael is Jesus instead of shooting off your mouth beforehand. Didn't Paul tell you to "despise not prophesying", but "prove all things"?

How about you stop with the empty outrage and come back with Biblical reasons for why these great men of God were wrong about their conclusions...I warn you, it will require a bit more effort than just standing on the sidelines and shouting maledictions at the players.

 

[atpollard]

No wonder you've concluded things as you've done...you keep confusing the Mosaic Law with the Moral Law. Here's proof the Bible puts a difference between the two:

The Mosaic Law was written by the hand of Moses, written on scrolls, placed outside the Ark, and was against them by virtue of the penalties and curses contained therein (Deuteronomy 31:24-26 KJV).......but in contrast, the Ten Commandment Law of God was written with His finger (Exodus 31:18 KJV), on both sides of stone tablets (Exodus 32:15 KJV), placed inside the Ark (Exodus 25:16 KJV), and contained blessings, not curses (Exodus 20:11 KJV; Exodus 20:12 KJV).


In 2 Kings 21:8 KJV, God promises Israel permanent residence if they keep His Law and the Mosaic law.



In 2 Chronicles 33:8 KJV, God promises the same if they will obey His Law and the Mosaic Law.


In Daniel 9:11KJV, he confessed that his people disobeyed the God's Law and the Mosaic Law.


In Deuteronomy 4:13-14 KJV, Moses says God commanded the people to keep His Law and commanded Moses to give them the Mosaic Law.


In Leviticus 23:37-38 KJV, God said the annual Feast Day sabbaths of the Jews in the Mosaic Law were "besides" the weekly Sabbaths of the Lord contained in the Ten Commandments.


In Romans 7:12 KJV, Paul refers to God's Law (identified as such by his reference to the Tenth Commandment in Romans 7:7 KJV) as "holy, just, and good", but refers to the Mosaic Law concerning the Levitical priesthood as a "carnal" commandment in Hebrews 7:16 KJV


The Ten Commandments existed before Mount Sinai: Cain knew murder was wrong; Abraham knew lying was wrong; Abraham also kept God's "charge, commandments, statutes, and laws"; Rachel knew stealing was wrong; Jacob knew idolatry in the form of jewelry was wrong; Joseph knew adultery was wrong; and God chided with the children of Israel in Exodus 16:28 KJV for not keeping "My Laws" because they broke the Sabbath Commandment before they even got anywhere near Mount Sinai in chapter 20.


Paul says in Galatians 3:19 KJV that the Mosaic Law was "added because of transgression" -- transgression of an already existing law: the Ten Commandments -- "until the Seed should come". When Jesus was crucified, the Mosaic Law was nailed to the Cross with Him (Colossians 2:14-17 KJV) while the Ten Commandments will "stand fast forever and ever" (Psalms 111:7:8 KJV).

Only by extracting verses from their context and whitewashing with heavy eisegesis can you hold this together.

 

[atpollard]

No thanks...I'm not going to waste my time with someone who thinks it's OK to "crucify the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame." Because, that's exactly what you said salvation is: a License to keep on sinning.

Spoken like a true Pharisee. Stick to the Teachers and never mind what anyone actually says … including Jesus.

 

[Phoneman777]

The whole law does not include the Moral law? Or the tables of the covenant and testimony in the ark?

So there is a distinction between the commandments of God and the law of God by Moses, as in the commandments on tables of stone were not part of or written in the law of Moses?

"To keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law." (Deut 30)

The commandments are written in the book of the law. The whole law includes all commandments and statutes of God.

But not specifically the 10 commandments engraved on tables by the finger of God?

The first two tables written on by the finger of God were broken by Moses. They were never placed in the ark of the covenant.

The 2 tables placed in the ark were the tables Moses wrote upon for 40 days and nights without food or drink, which writing 10 commandments only did not take. ALL the law was written by God on those two tables of His testimony and covenant and placed inside the Ark of the testimony, the ark of the covenant.

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them." (Ex 24)

"And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments." (Ex 34)

And so, contrary to 'specialists' in Sabbath keeping and modern myth from the movie 'The Ten Commandments', ALL the words of the book of the Law, as well as, the ten commandments that God had first written on the first stones, were written by Moses at the mouth of the Lord in the mount, were placed within the ark of the covenant.

"And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him in mount Sinai." (Ex 34)

And all the law of Moses given by God is in commandment of God to His people, it is all One law and one manner of law (Numbers 15): no parsing, no distinguishing difference in importance nor moral distinction, no dividing between in the ark and out of the ark:

The testimony that Moses finally put into the ark, was the testimony of the covenant of all the words of the Lord commanded in the book of His law. (Ex 40:20)

The false assumption of only the ten commandments written on two tables of stone, causes the whole argument of 'specialty' of the ten commandments as untouchably eternal, without change, and outside the book of the law that has changed is false.

The commandment of the Sabbath outside and distinct from the rest of the law is false. And Sabbath keeping by commandment of law of Christ is false. And the necessity of judging other believers accordingly is false.

Sabbath keeping by command in the New Covenant is exactly the same Judaizing command to be circumcised by law. Both were law of Moses under the Levitical priesthood of the New Covenant, and neither is written in the book of the Law of Christ as commandment of God to all believers.

Therefore, they who keep any point or commandment of law of Moses are debtors to keep the whole law of Moses, including all commandments and statues written by Moses and placed in the ark of testimony; including Sabbaths, circumcision, and offering of sacrifice on the 8th day after the seven days of purification before the Levitical priest to present to the Lord:

"And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord, As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord; And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons." (Luke 2)

If any Sabbath keeper by commandment of God does not circumcise and offer sacrifice and present to the Lord any male offspring to the Levitical priest, then they are guilty of the whole law of Moses.

Unless, of course there is no such law for the people of God in Christ Jesus, since such law was written under the Levitical priesthood, which is wholly changed to that of Jesus and His saints, as well as the law of Moses into that of Christ.

Of course there's a distinction between the Mosaic Law and the Moral Law, the most glaring being the Mosaic was nailed to the Cross (which is why "circumcision is nothing") but the Ten Commandments "stand fast forever and ever" (which is why it will always be wrong to kill, steal, lie, etc.).