Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?

[robert derrick]

This scripture you quoted is a testiment against OSAS. If we are sanctified we should behave ourselves accordingly as sanctified saints in Christ. If you do not, then what? I think it proves you are not really sactified. And you are out, unless you repent and get back to the path.

Since there is no such thing as unconditional eternal security, then if I have gone back to my old sins,and no more do the good of God according to the Scriptures by His faith, then yes, that would be true, and my end will be worse than the beginning.

But that's not true for me.

You misquote me in any case. We are sanctified in Christ once for all, and so long as we continue therein, we shall be found clothed in Him at His appearing. I.e. conduct ourselves as the sanctified saints that we are born to be.

The sanctification that is once and for all, is that which is according to the Scriptures for us to obey,a nd it also written in our hearts, so that we do so naturally, as by divine nature.

'Progressive sanctification' is the false doctrine of them that make up 'holiness' rules to live by: a never ending quest for a perfect 'holiness' living in Christ, that is bodily accomplished by carnal ordinances given for every aspect of life, which are not specifically written in scripture.

I.e. Scripture declares we should be dressed in public, and other than nudity and outlandish displays, there are no details of what dressing modestly is. That is where the individual believer is to look to Jesus as their personal guide in such things.

The progressive holiness types go about establishing for doctrine of Christ their own judgment of modest dress in public, such as men can't wear shorts, women can't wear pants, etc...

People who hold to progressive sanctification for holiness living, make up such rules of detail to abide by, and command others to do likewise. Them that do obey them are therefore seduced to be personal proselytes of false teachers, no longer holding to true Head, Jesus Christ, but rather holding to another head, even as they are obeying another doctrine of a false christ.

There is the righteousness and true holiness of God, and then there is the self-righteousness and false holiness of man.

 

[Gregory]

so endure in faith?
i agree.

i do not agree that works may produce faith -- rather, faith may produce works.

i say "may" in an human sense - because there are works that only God sees, in fact, God recommends works only He sees.

in the absolute sense, faith always produces works - tho not always in the sight of men, therefore they cannot be a basis for us to judge one another by (("judge not according to appearance, but righteously"))
i do believe works can increase or strengthen faith, but they don't produce it.

i say "may" in an human sense - because there are works that only God sees, in fact, God recommends works only He sees.

This sounds funny, like you really don't like the word "works". You know that Jesus taught good works his whole ministry, he was full of good works as our example. He said do good works so people can see them and that will glorify God, which he did over and over and over again.

Why are you so ashamed of good works? Why shy away from one of Jesus's foundational themes? I don't get it. Faith absolutely brings forth good works, and you do not follow Jesus's good works, I believe it proves you without faith.

 

[Gregory]

robert derrick says:

You misquote me in any case. We are sanctified in Christ once for all, and so long as we continue therein, we shall be found clothed in Him at His appearing. I.e. conduct ourselves as the sanctified saints that we are born to be.

I believe what you say here: we are sanctified in Christ once and for all, AND SO LONG AS WE CONTINUE THEREIN, WE SHALL BE FOUND CLOTHED IN HIM AT HIS APPEARING.

This implies that if we do not continue in Him, we will not be found clothed in Him at His appearing. And I believe that is the case. IOW we can not be sanctified and then go out and do all sorts of sinful deeds and not continue in Him, and expect to be clothed in Him at His appearing. Makes no sense otherwise.

 

[Gregory]

This sounds funny, like you really don't like the word "works". You know that Jesus taught good works his whole ministry, he was full of good works as our example. He said do good works so people can see them and that will glorify God, which he did over and over and over again.

Why are you so ashamed of good works? Why shy away from one of Jesus's foundational themes? I don't get it. Faith absolutely brings forth good works, and you do not follow Jesus's good works, I believe it proves you without faith.

To post:
I wanted to apologize for this last statement. I believe that you do good works and are a good Christian, and so forgive me for saying you do not follow Jesus's good works, I am sure you do. Dumb on me.

 

[Curtis]

The sanctification that is once and for all, is that which is according to the Scriptures for us to obey,a nd it also written in our hearts, so that we do so naturally, as by divine nature.

'Progressive sanctification' is the false doctrine of them that make up 'holiness' rules to live by: a never ending quest for a perfect 'holiness' living in Christ, that is bodily accomplished by carnal ordinances given for every aspect of life, which are not specifically written in scripture.

Remaining in Christ requires bearing fruit, per John 15 where Jesus states He is the vine,we are the branches, and if we bear not fruit we are cut off of the vine of Jesus as a dead branch and burned, and sanctification is a continuing process based on NOT doing something, (and not doing something isn’t a work), and that something we are required to NOT do, is commit the sin of sexual immorality, as part of sanctification, to whit:

1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;

1Th 4:4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor,

1Th 4:5 not in the passion of lust like the heathen who do not know God;

1Th 4:6 that no one transgress and wrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you.

1Th 4:7 For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness.

1Th 4:8 Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you.

To review: in your post salvation Christian walk, your works will keep you from heaven - if you continue in works of the flesh (sin), as Paul warns us many tines - and it’s what you DON’T do that is your ongoing sanctification, which is avoid sexual sins, aka works of the flesh.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,

Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,

Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Maranatha

 

[GRACE ambassador]

And so also have we been sanctified by the Spirit (Rom 15:16), and we are called to behave ourselves accordingly as sanctified saints in Christ. (1 Cor 1:2)

This scripture you quoted is a testiment against OSAS.

Rom 15:16 "That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering
the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being
Sanctified By The Holy Ghost." ("God's OPERATION" Colossians 2:12)

1Co 1:2 "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are
Sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all that in every place
call upon The Name of Jesus Christ our LORD, both theirs and ours:"

Precious friends:
These Scriptures Cannot "be a testament" Against God's ETERNAL Salvation!
This is Impossible for These Scriptural Reasons:

(1) Heb_10:14 "For by ONE {ALL-Sufficient} Offering He Hath
perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

(2) This "testament" ignores God's Teachings of UNfaithful saints,
(1 Corinthians 5:1-5), who "Shall Be saved At Judgment Day,"
And Also "bad works" at The Bema Judgment Seat Of CHRIST!
(1 Corinthians 3:6-15)

(3) Over 11 to 12 Dozen Of God's Plain And Clear Scriptures would
be NULLIFIED And Made VOID by the man-made teaching of "temporary"
ETERNAL Life! {oxymoron, Correct?} Please Prayerfully review:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

Conclusion: OUR SELF-sanctification "working out OUR OWN salvation" to be
"delivered From the POWER of sin," is an Entirely Different Matter Than:

God's OPERATION Of Justification/Sanctification, "Deliverance
From The PENALTY of sin," Which God Has Already Accepted By
The ONE {ALL-Sufficient} Offering Of HIS SON, JESUS CHRIST!

Please see: God's Simple Will!

And, Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!

(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 =
Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans – Philemon}, today?)

 

[Curtis]

robert derrick says:


I believe what you say here: we are sanctified in Christ once and for all, AND SO LONG AS WE CONTINUE THEREIN, WE SHALL BE FOUND CLOTHED IN HIM AT HIS APPEARING.

This implies that if we do not continue in Him, we will not be found clothed in Him at His appearing. And I believe that is the case. IOW we can not be sanctified and then go out and do all sorts of sinful deeds and not continue in Him, and expect to be clothed in Him at His appearing. Makes no sense otherwise.

I’m glad the topic of being clothed in white robes/raiment/garments came up, because the wedding supper in Matthew 22, and having white robes in Revelation, is absolutely about that:

Here’s the relevant portion of that account:

Mat 22:9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’

Mat 22:10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.

Mat 22:11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment.

Mat 22:12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless.

Mat 22:13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Pure white raiment (linen, robes, garments) are the righteousness of saints, and become part of their wedding attire, as shown by the wedding supper account in Revelation 19: - And the wedding guest above was found to be without any wedding clothes of white garments.


Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.


Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.


Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.


Christians are therefore clothed with white robes of righteousness - yet the risen Jesus warns believers in the church at Sardis of their need to repent, because most of them had defiled their white robes/garments:


Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.


Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


Names are blotted out of the book of life, if we defile our white robes and fail to overcome, Jesus warns.


Worse yet, Jesus warns the Laodicean church, that they’ve not just defiled their white robes of righteousness, they’ve lost them completely and are stark naked - though they think they are still clothed - (and being found naked while thinking they are still clothed, becomes significant at the wedding supper of Jesus).


Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:


Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.


So the Laodicean church sadly went beyond only defiling their white raiment/robes of righteousness as the church in Sardis did: they actually lost them completely, but yet weren’t alarmed or concerned in any way - because like the story of the emperor with new clothes - they had no idea that they were naked.


The man at the wedding supper in Matthew 22 had also lost his white robes/garments (which are the righteousness of saints) - and was speechless, shocked, and bewildered to discover he was naked - because like those in Revelation 3:17-18, he thought he was fully clothed.


And because he was not properly attired in white robes of righteousness, Jesus threw him out of the wedding supper of the lamb, and into outer darkness (hell):


Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither NOT having a wedding garment? And he was SPEECHLESS.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast himinto outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


How is it that those in Revelation 3:17-18 were naked, but thought they were clothed?


They obviously did something to defile their garments, that they mistakenly thought was ok with God.


That something is the warnings by Paul that grace is not a license to sin, and that believers who continue to live in sins of the flesh, shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven.


In other words, they believed they could live a sinful lifestyle, and remain in Christ.


They were deceived by OSAS into thinking grace WAS a license to sin, with no eternal consequences - despite Paul’s many warnings to the brethren to NOT be deceived.


So the naked wedding guest in Matthew 22 that was thrown into hell, was in the same tragic situation that the Laodicean church was in.


And Jesus’ warning to the Sardis church that they needed to repent because they’d defiled their white garments - and that unless they heeded His warning and become over-comers, He would blot their names from the book of life - falsifies OSAS and hyper-grace doctrine, and is fatal to them.


The final nail in those doctrines is the fact that first defiling - then losing completely - white robes of righteousness, results in names being blotted out of the book of life (per Jesus’ warning to the church of Sardis) - and being thrown out of the wedding supper, and into outer darkness/hell for having no white robes of righteousness.

Maranatha

 

[michaelvpardo]

You must be born again.

 

[theefaith]

You must be born again.

how?

 

[robert derrick]

Remaining in Christ requires bearing fruit, per John 15 where Jesus states He is the vine,we are the branches, and if we bear not fruit we are cut off of the vine of Jesus as a dead branch and burned, and sanctification is a continuing process based on NOT doing something, (and not doing something isn’t a work), and that something we are required to NOT do, is commit the sin of sexual immorality, as part of sanctification, to whit:

1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;

1Th 4:4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor,

1Th 4:5 not in the passion of lust like the heathen who do not know God;

1Th 4:6 that no one transgress and wrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you.

1Th 4:7 For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness.

1Th 4:8 Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you.

To review: in your post salvation Christian walk, your works will keep you from heaven - if you continue in works of the flesh (sin), as Paul warns us many tines - and it’s what you DON’T do that is your ongoing sanctification, which is avoid sexual sins, aka works of the flesh.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,

Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,

Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Maranatha

it’s what you DON’T do that is your ongoing sanctification

Good point.

James calls their faith dead who don't do good for their brother in need. By continuing in sins of the flesh, the Spirit is quenched, and the good fruit dwindles, so that the branch is left for dead.

Our conversation becomes with lips only, like all the leaves on the fig tree without fruit, when the Lord came to eat of it, and was then cursed and withered away.

And so, even if we are wrestling with besetting sin, our only hope of faith in Jesus is to continue in prayer and good works wherever and whenever possible, so that by grace we can look for our deliverance from the Lord.

And so, Jesus prophesied that when love grows cold, then sin will abound.

And so, even if we are wounded, limping, sagging, weak of knees, we keep continuing by faith to do good when good arises, and not let our love of God fade away.

 

[robert derrick]

I’m glad the topic of being clothed in white robes/raiment/garments came up, because the wedding supper in Matthew 22, and having white robes in Revelation, is absolutely about that:

Here’s the relevant portion of that account:

Mat 22:9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’

Mat 22:10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.

Mat 22:11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment.

Mat 22:12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless.

Mat 22:13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Pure white raiment (linen, robes, garments) are the righteousness of saints, and become part of their wedding attire, as shown by the wedding supper account in Revelation 19: - And the wedding guest above was found to be without any wedding clothes of white garments.


Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.


Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.


Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.


Christians are therefore clothed with white robes of righteousness - yet the risen Jesus warns believers in the church at Sardis of their need to repent, because most of them had defiled their white robes/garments:


Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.


Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


Names are blotted out of the book of life, if we defile our white robes and fail to overcome, Jesus warns.


Worse yet, Jesus warns the Laodicean church, that they’ve not just defiled their white robes of righteousness, they’ve lost them completely and are stark naked - though they think they are still clothed - (and being found naked while thinking they are still clothed, becomes significant at the wedding supper of Jesus).


Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:


Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.


So the Laodicean church sadly went beyond only defiling their white raiment/robes of righteousness as the church in Sardis did: they actually lost them completely, but yet weren’t alarmed or concerned in any way - because like the story of the emperor with new clothes - they had no idea that they were naked.


The man at the wedding supper in Matthew 22 had also lost his white robes/garments (which are the righteousness of saints) - and was speechless, shocked, and bewildered to discover he was naked - because like those in Revelation 3:17-18, he thought he was fully clothed.


And because he was not properly attired in white robes of righteousness, Jesus threw him out of the wedding supper of the lamb, and into outer darkness (hell):


Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither NOT having a wedding garment? And he was SPEECHLESS.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast himinto outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


How is it that those in Revelation 3:17-18 were naked, but thought they were clothed?


They obviously did something to defile their garments, that they mistakenly thought was ok with God.


That something is the warnings by Paul that grace is not a license to sin, and that believers who continue to live in sins of the flesh, shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven.


In other words, they believed they could live a sinful lifestyle, and remain in Christ.


They were deceived by OSAS into thinking grace WAS a license to sin, with no eternal consequences - despite Paul’s many warnings to the brethren to NOT be deceived.


So the naked wedding guest in Matthew 22 that was thrown into hell, was in the same tragic situation that the Laodicean church was in.


And Jesus’ warning to the Sardis church that they needed to repent because they’d defiled their white garments - and that unless they heeded His warning and become over-comers, He would blot their names from the book of life - falsifies OSAS and hyper-grace doctrine, and is fatal to them.


The final nail in those doctrines is the fact that first defiling - then losing completely - white robes of righteousness, results in names being blotted out of the book of life (per Jesus’ warning to the church of Sardis) - and being thrown out of the wedding supper, and into outer darkness/hell for having no white robes of righteousness.

Maranatha

In context of your post about what we are not doing in bearing fruit, we are therefore found naked by letting the love of God wax cold, because the garment becomes so stained with filthiness of flesh, that it grows old and decays to rags.

This is also the case for them becoming self-righteous in the law, like the older brother despising the prodigal: those robes also become as filthy rags in sight of God.

They were deceived by OSAS into thinking grace WAS a license to sin, with no eternal consequences - despite Paul’s many warnings to the brethren to NOT be deceived.

I have met someone like that to excuse occasional fornication. His exact words I still remember: I know it's not right, and I am wrong for it, but I also know I will always be forgiven by Jesus...Which is the result of the lie of being forgiven of all sins past, present, and future.

We are only forgiven of past sins at the cross, and we can be forgiven of present sin with confession fromt he heart by faith, but we are not called to sin in future.

What he was really saying was, he believed that he would always be drawn by God to confession, but when confession is only with lips, then it is the same as the wicked calling Him Lord, Lord, but do not what He says.

The real warning is that God can and will give up on us, as He has with others (Rom 1), if we turn from Him back to open riotous living and become reprobate to every good work. (Titus 1:16)

God is not a respecter of persons. He is not unjust to judge one fornicator and not another, just because the other believes in eternal security by grace.

And Jesus’ warning Sardis

The Scripture teaching about not eating the forbidden fruit is as old as the garden, and it is not one about looking to condemn others and showing lack of love, but rather is the simple clear warning against mocking God for His goodness:

Despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds. (Rom 2)

There is a real difference between restoring one another from a fault with love, and the weak deception that excuses one another with grace.

After all, that is a just accusation of the world against them that mock the judgment of God in Romans 2, and it is not the unbelievers of the world that have the love of God to grown cold in. Jesus is warning the saints, not the world.

The final nail in those doctrines.

And the simple scriptures of that nail are simple: ye have fallen from grace. Crucifying Christ afresh to an open shame. The latter end being worse than the first. And since the natural branches were cut off, then so can those grafted it. Our circumcision of Christ can become uncircumcised by transgression of the law. (Rom 2)

Therefore, are warned not to be high-minded and forget the fear of the Lord, even if we do so with grace.

 

[Taken]

robert derrick says:

I believe what you say here: we are sanctified in Christ once and for all, AND SO LONG AS WE CONTINUE THEREIN, WE SHALL BE FOUND CLOTHED IN HIM AT HIS APPEARING.

This implies that if we do not continue in Him, we will not be found clothed in Him at His appearing. And I believe that is the case. IOW we can not be sanctified and then go out and do all sorts of sinful deeds and not continue in Him, and expect to be clothed in Him at His appearing. Makes no sense otherwise.

It will NEVER "make Sense" to one persons "MIND" When People have Differing Opinions on:
* What a person believes "SIN" is.
* Who a person is defining "WE" is.
* When one person is "concluding" MINDFULLY and another is "concluding" SPIRITUALLY.

 

[robert derrick]

It will NEVER "make Sense" to one persons "MIND" When People have Differing Opinions on:
* What a person believes "SIN" is.
* Who a person is defining "WE" is.
* When one person is "concluding" MINDFULLY and another is "concluding" SPIRITUALLY.

When one person is "concluding" MINDFULLY and another is "concluding" SPIRITUALLY.

But we ought all conclude Scripturally, which is truly.

If we stick to what is plainly written and accept it as such, without personal agenda's, then we'll be just fine.

But the scripture hath concluded...

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said...

 

[Taken]

When one person is "concluding" MINDFULLY and another is "concluding" SPIRITUALLY.

But we ought all conclude Scripturally, which is truly.

If we stick to what is plainly written and accept it as such, without personal agenda's, then we'll be just fine.

But the scripture hath concluded...

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said...

Sure, If two have the same understanding of what rightly dividing the truth means.

The condunrum is people have different understandings of what Scripture means, thus end up debating the meanings.

 

[theefaith]

Sure, If two have the same understanding of what rightly dividing the truth means.

The condunrum is people have different understandings of what Scripture means, thus end up debating the meanings.

The Magisterium (or Teaching Authority) of the Church to be Perpetual

8. We are mindful only of what is witnessed to by Holy Writ and what is otherwise well known. Christ proves His own divinity and the divine origin of His mission by miracles; He teaches the multitudes heavenly doctrine by word of mouth; and He absolutely commands that the assent of faith should be given to His teaching, promising eternal rewards to those who believe and eternal punishment to those who do not. "If I do not the works of my Father, believe Me not" (John x., 37). "If I had not done among them the works than no other man had done, they would not have sin" (Ibid. xv., 24). "But if I do (the works) though you will not believe Me, believe the works" (Ibid. x., 38). Whatsoever He commands, He commands by the same authority. He requires the assent of the mind to all truths without exception. It was thus the duty of all who heard Jesus Christ, if they wished for eternal salvation, not merely to accept His doctrine as a whole, but to assent with their entire mind to all and every point of it, since it is unlawful to withhold faith from God even in regard to one single point.

When about to ascend into heaven He sends His Apostles in virtue of the same power by which He had been sent from the Father; and he charges them to spread abroad and propagate His teaching. "All power is given to Me in Heaven and in earth. Going therefore teach all nations....teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you" (Matt. xxviii., 18-19-20). So that those obeying the Apostles might be saved, and those disobeying should perish. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believed not shall be condemned" (Mark xvi., 16). But since it is obviously most in harmony with God's providence that no one should have confided to him a great and important mission unless he were furnished with the means of properly carrying it out, for this reason Christ promised that He would send the Spirit of Truth to His Disciples to remain with them for ever. "But if I go I will send Him (the Paraclete) to you....But when He, the Spirit of Truth is come, He will teach you all truth" (John xvi., 7-13). "And I will ask the Father, and He shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever, the Spirit of 'Truth" (Ibid. xiv., 16-17). "He shall give testimony of Me, and you shall give testimony" (Ibid. xv., 26-27). Hence He commands that the teaching of the Apostles should be religiously accepted and piously kept as if it were His own - "He who hears you hears Me, he who despises you despises Me" (Luke x., 16). Wherefore the Apostles are ambassadors of Christ as He is the ambassador of the Father. "As the Father sent Me so also I send you" (John xx., 21). Hence as the Apostles and Disciples were bound to obey Christ, so also those whom the Apostles taught were, by God's command, bound to obey them. And, therefore, it was no more allowable to repudiate one iota of the Apostles' teaching than it was to reject any point of the doctrine of Christ Himself.

Truly the voice of the Apostles, when the Holy Ghost had come down upon them, resounded throughout the world. Wherever they went they proclaimed themselves the ambassadors of Christ Himself. "By whom (Jesus Christ) we have received grace and Apostleship for obedience to the faith in all nations for His name" (Rom. i., 5). And God makes known their divine mission by numerous miracles. "But they going forth preached everywhere: the Lord working withal, and confirming the word with signs that followed" (Mark xvi., 20). But what is this word? That which comprehends all things, that which they had learnt from their Master; because they openly and publicly declare that they cannot help speaking of what they had seen and heard.

But, as we have already said, the Apostolic mission was not destined to die with the Apostles themselves, or to come to an end in the course of time, since it was intended for the people at large and instituted for the salvation of the human race. For Christ commanded His Apostles to preach the "Gospel to every creature, to carry His name to nations and kings, and to be witnesses to him to the ends of the earth." He further promised to assist them in the fulfilment of their high mission, and that, not for a few years or centuries only, but for all time - "even to the consummation of the world." Upon which St. Jerome says: "He who promises to remain with His Disciples to the end of the world declares that they will be for ever victorious, and that He will never depart from those who believe in Him" (In Matt., lib. iv., cap. 28, v. 20). But how could all this be realized in the Apostles alone, placed as they were under the universal law of dissolution by death? It was consequently provided by God that the Magisterium instituted by Jesus Christ should not end with the life of the Apostles, but that it should be perpetuated. We see it in truth propagated, and, as it were, delivered from hand to hand. For the Apostles consecrated bishops, and each one appointed those who were to succeed them immediately "in the ministry of the word."

Nay more: they likewise required their successors to choose fitting men, to endow them with like authority, and to confide to them the office and mission of teaching. "Thou, therefore, my son, be strong in the grace which is in Christ Jesus: and the things which thou bast heard of me by many witnesses, the same command to faithful men, who shall be fit to teach others also" (2 Tim. ii., I-2). Wherefore, as Christ was sent by God and the Apostles by Christ, so the Bishops and those who succeeded them were sent by the Apostles. "The Apostles were appointed by Christ to preach the Gospel to us. Jesus Christ was sent by God. Christ is therefore from God, and the Apostles from Christ, and both according to the will of God....Preaching therefore the word through the countries and cities, when they had proved in the Spirit the first-fruits of their teaching they appointed bishops and deacons for the faithful....They appointed them and then ordained them, so that when they themselves had passed away other tried men should carry on their ministry" (S. Clemens Rom. Epist. I ad Corinth. capp. 42, 44). On the one hand, therefore, it is necessary that the mission of teaching whatever Christ had taught should remain perpetual and immutable, and on the other that the duty of accepting and professing all their doctrine should likewise be perpetual and immutable. "Our Lord Jesus Christ, when in His Gospel He testifies that those who not are with Him are His enemies, does not designate any special form of heresy, but declares that all heretics who are not with Him and do not gather with Him, scatter His flock and are His adversaries: He that is not with Me is against Me, and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth" (S. Cyprianus, Ep. lxix., ad Magnum, n. I).

 

[Taken]

The Magisterium (or Teaching Authority) of the Church to be Perpetua

Gods Word gives EVERY man of God, AUTHORITY to Speak Gods Word to Others.

Christ IS "The Church".
Jesus IS "The Word of God"

Verify "everything" claimed to be Gods Word "with Scripture".

 

[Taken]

Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?
OP ^

Jesus IS The Truth OF God, Whether or not a man believes that.

A man WHO has Accepted and Believes Jesus IS Gods Truth, IS:....IN Jesus.
(IF that man continues IN JESUS, until the end of his physical Life......THAT man IS CALLED:
Enduring to the END).....AND WILL Be SAVED in his END of physical life.
AND RAISED UP IN GLORY,...after the 1,000 yr reign.

A man WHO has Accepted and Believes Jesus IS the Christ....AND Heartfully CONFESSED that Belief, During His Physical Life....
IS.....become CONVERTED....and
IS:.....IN Christ...and
IS:.....Spiritually Crucified, Forgiven, soul Saved, spirit Quickened and
Forever WITH the Lord and The Lord Forever WITH "that" man.

Can ANY man....IN Jesus:
Lie, Steal. Fornicate? Against other men? YES.
Lie, Steal, Fornicate? Against the Lord God? YES
(Which means, he no longer IS ENDURING, He has STOPPED Believing and IS NO LONGER "IN" Jesus.)

CAN ANY man....IN Christ;
Lie, Steal, Fornicate? Against other men? YES.
Lie, Steal, Fornicate? Against the Lord God? NO.

ANY man...NOT CONVERTED "IN" CHRIST...
Is vulnerable, to falling away...
Jews from God...Gentiles from Jesus.
* Scripture WARNS OF "UNCONVERTED" men being "vulnerable" to evil and wickedness OF the World.
* Scripture ALSO reveals, ANY man "NOT CONVERTED", who REMAINS (Endures) to his lifes END.....Faithful to God, IN Jesus....SHALL BE SAVED at the end of his life....and Risen Up after the 1,000 yr reign.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

If your belief in Jesus Christ does not endure to the end of your life, you will not make it to heaven.

Agree.

How do we endure to the end with our belief in Jesus Christ in tact? We do it by doing good works that Jesus has for us to do since before the world was created.

Disagree.
A mans enduring to the end, is:
By the man KEEPING his belief:
(Jews believing IN God;
Gentiles believing IN God; IN Jesus;
to his natural life's end....
He SHALL BE SAVED, as the End of his natural Life....
He SHALL BE RAISED UP after the millenial reign.
(Ephesians 2:10)
Eph 2:
[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

* We, refers To those...CONVERTED "IN" Christ, Saved NOW.
* Workmanship, refers To Gods Conversion Works IN a man: ie Creating the Converted man into A new Creature.
* Good Works, refers To WHAT a Converted man, IS (since being Converted) Able and Ordained "TO DO"...
* Walk IN Good Works...IS WHAT a Converted man "SHOULD DO".

*Point being...WORKS ARE: anything a believing man DOES....that "Glorifies God".
*Point being...Unbelieving men, can not glorify God.
*Point being...A Believing man, (Jew or Gentile)...at any time can fall from belief.
Yet while he IS believing, he CAN do works, that Glorify God.
*Point being...A Converted man, according to the Lords Way, of Conversion;
CAN NEVER fall away.
*Point being...A Converted man, IS ORDAINED, to do Good Works.

* There is "teaching" and there is "preaching.
* Preaching IS;..basically Repeating the Word of God to others....A believing man CAN DO THAT.
* Teaching IS;...basically SHOWING in Scripture parallels, verifications, OF a Taught Scriptural Word of God....A Coverted man IS ORDAINED to DO THAT.

The Similiarity of a Believing man AND a Converted man....IS they are both Believing...AND the God...IS "WITH" THEM.
And THEY "ENDURE", believing, BY THEIR OWN POWER (and why they are easily able to fall away, BECAUSE men are easily TEMPTED, by cunning evil spirits and cunning wicked men)

The Difference of a Believing man AND a Converted man...IS the Spirit of God IS NOT "IN" a Believing man....AND the Spirit of God "IS WITH and IN" a Converted man.
A CONVERTED man...is not Warned to "ENDURE" to his end of life...SO he will BE SAVED....
A CONVERTED man...IS ALREADY SAVED and KEPT SAVED, "Expressly BY THE Holy Spirit (POWER) of God, IN that man".
A Converted mans "WORKS", DO NOT KEEP that man SAVED....Gods POWER DOES.

* AS FAR as WORKS...
"EVERY man shall be JUDGED on his WORKS".
(The Unsaved; they enduring to his end and saved; they who are converted and saved already)....
Romans 2:
[5] But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
[6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Continuing Romans 2:7-29 more details.

All WORKS are tried (tested) by FIRE.
All WORKS that do not Glorify God...
regardless of WHO (unbeliever, believer but not Converted, Converted)....SHALL BE BURNED UP in the Fire they are tested with.

1 Cor 3:
[13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

If we do not continue to believe or we do not these good works, heaven can be in jeopardy.

Endurance of BELIEF, does not apply to the Converted "IN" Christ.
Heaven is never in jeopardy, because of a mans Works.
Heaven IS Gods Throne.

What IS in jeopardy, BY men who ARE NEVER SAVED....IS Gods "inheritance".
Every Saved man IS Gods "inheritance".
Every Unsaved man IS a Loss of Gods "inheritance".

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[robert derrick]

We are mindful only of what is witnessed to by Holy Writ and what is otherwise well known.

And there is no 'and otherwise well known' with God apart from Scripture, though it be well known of men apart from the God of all Scripture.

Christ proves His own divinity and the divine origin of His mission by miracles.

And if seeing miracles is the basis of faith, then that faith will be deceived by crying statues:

And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast.

Followers of Jesus walk by faith, not by sight:

And when Herod saw Jesus, he was exceeding glad: for he was desirous to see him of a long season, because he had heard many things of him; and he hoped to have seen some miracle done by him.

Followers of miracles walk by sight, not by faith, but ever hoping to see some miracle on earth or in the clouds.

The Bible of all Scripture is the greatest miracle of God on earth, that we ever need see and believe.