The law of Moses vs the law of Christ

[Waiting on him]

What the Bible says, so, given by God.

Much love!

Ok, thanks.

 

[robert derrick]

Rather, being born from Abaham isn't enough, you have to be of the child of promise. And being born of Isaac isn't enough, you have to be of the chosen child. And being born of Jacob isn't enough, you must be of faith.

If this sounds familiar it's from Romans 9, the primary teaching of that chapter.

Simply being a circumcised Jew isn't enough, if you don't believe. and in the same way the Bible speaks. This is not to say that Christians are the "new Jews". In Christ, there is no Jew or gentile, we are one in Him. And yet to the children of Jacob will be land grants by tribe, in the millennial kingdom. According to the Bible.

Much love!

"But that's not to say there is no such thing as a Jew"

There is such thing as being a Jew: "He is a Jew, which is one inwardly"

"He is not a Jew, which is one outwardly." If you want to break that Scripture, go ahead.

 

[marks]

If you want to break that Scripture, go ahead.

 

[robert derrick]

My pastor added a 4th one:
4. The Old Covenant very specifically applies to the Hebrews who were freed from slavery in Egypt. We (American descendants from Europe) were never Hebrews but Gentiles and the law never applied to us to begin with.

Once you begin to talk bout American, you are out. In like manner the law of Moses never applied to believers in Christ, whether Jew or Greek or American.

The old covenant never applied to beliers in Jesus. Correct. Neither does the law of Moses given under the old Levitical priesthood of the old Covenant.

 

[marks]

"But that's not to say there is no such thing as a Jew"

There is such thing as being a Jew: "He is a Jew, which is one inwardly"

"He is not a Jew, which is one outwardly." If you want to break that Scripture, go ahead.

You changed my post. Just an aside . . . I had to figure out why it didn't read like I remembered.

~

Paul spoke of Jews in two different ways, which are seen in the context. The True Jew in terms of salvation isn't the one who is merely the child of Abraham/Isaac/Jacob, but who believed.

And at the same time, Paul went to the Jews first, and then the gentile. In saying to the Jew first, these were of course unsaved, as he went to preach the Gospel, not where others had gone before, fresh audiences. Of Jews.

So, in the context will be seen what he meant.

Much love!

 

[robert derrick]

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

One more last time: He is not a Jew by circumcision of the flesh only.
He is a Jew by circumcision in the heart by the Spirit of Christ inwardly.

Yes or no?

 

[marks]

One more last time:

I'm not following your contention here, sorry!

Perhaps my post #85 above will clarify?

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Once you begin to talk bout American, you are out.

Fine by me. I don't want to be a part of any organization that considers me out.

 

[robert derrick]

You changed my post. Just an aside . . . I had to figure out why it didn't read like I remembered.

~

Paul spoke of Jews in two different ways, which are seen in the context. The True Jew in terms of salvation isn't the one who is merely the child of Abraham/Isaac/Jacob, but who believed.

And at the same time, Paul went to the Jews first, and then the gentile. In saying to the Jew first, these were of course unsaved, as he went to preach the Gospel, not where others had gone before, fresh audiences. Of Jews.

So, in the context will be seen what he meant.

Much love!

You are really close.

"And at the same time, Paul went to the Jews first, and then the gentile."

God the Son Jesus went to the Jews under the law first according to the prophecies to confirm the promises to the fathers (Rom 15:8), then He sent Paul to go to the Gentiles, because the rest of His apostles were stuck in Jerusalem, contrary to the commandment to go into all the earth (Matthew 28). And so He sent a chief persecutor to accomplish it, and even Paul didn't get it, so that as an apostle he was to go the gentiles and not the Jews. He finally got his original commission from Acts 9 in acts 28:28.

Christians today are still stuck on the Jews after the flesh. For some reason. Maybe it makes Christians feel more 'connected' to the Old Covenant. I don't know why, because the old covenant is vanished away.

 

[robert derrick]

Fine by me. I don't want to be a part of any organization that considers me out.

I am an organization of one, and you are out.

 

[robert derrick]

You changed my post. Just an aside . . . I had to figure out why it didn't read like I remembered.

~

Paul spoke of Jews in two different ways, which are seen in the context. The True Jew in terms of salvation isn't the one who is merely the child of Abraham/Isaac/Jacob, but who believed.

And at the same time, Paul went to the Jews first, and then the gentile. In saying to the Jew first, these were of course unsaved, as he went to preach the Gospel, not where others had gone before, fresh audiences. Of Jews.

So, in the context will be seen what he meant.

Much love!

"The True Jew in terms of salvation isn't the one who is merely the child of Abraham/Isaac/Jacob, but who believed."

The 'true' Jew now is the promised seed of Abraham even as Isaac, which we are: "Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise." (Gal 4)

How clearer by Scripture can we get, that we are as Isaac, and not them that abide as the bond woman cast out?

I am a child of Abraham by promise, even as Isaac by faith in Jesus who promised Isaac, even as He promised Abraham. (Gen 21:12,25:11)

Why is that so hard to understand? The children of flesh are not the children of promise, nor the seed, nor the inheritance. It is only because of 'end times prophesy' that evangelical Christians want to continue to give special honor to Jews after the flesh, and they are in error. Jesus already did that, when He came to them first.

Nothing against the 'Jews' of the flesh, who are not Jews with God, and their Jews' religion is not religion of God, but they are not the people the Lord, whom He returns for in His resurrection. He returns for His believers to receive unto Himself. (John 14:3)

Christians need the liberty from seeing through the veil of Moses and being clung to the Jews after the flesh. After all, they crucify Christ unto this day, and they cannot read the Scriptures without Moses. He was a good servant of God, but not God Himself, like Jesus is.

Get your eyes on Jesus only (Mark 9:8), and you will have liberty to have your heart on God only in the Scriptures of the New Covenant.

 

[robert derrick]

What two clashing sentences? I'll assume you mean about the differences between this age and the age to come? But there is no conflict.

We are 'in Christ in this dispensation'. We've been saved by grace through fatih. In the coming kingdom age, Jesus is here on earth, and things are a little different. Will there be faith in that day? Or will there be sight?

Now, there are no national distinctions between God's people. In the kingdom age, there will be.

Zechariah, all the nations shall go to Israel for the feast. According to God's covenant with Isreal, Israel will be head of nations, and Jesus will rule the earth from Jerusalem.

Each tribe will receive it's land alotment. The Apostles will judge the tribes. There is of course much more.

Obadiah identifies the house of Jacob and the house of Israel at the time of the day of the LORD, the defender who is victorious, and will posses their lands.

History is written by many people. The Bible is written by God. Then there are current events. We can all just look and see what is happening now. Obadiah correctly identifies the areas where terrorists occupy around Israel, including Gaza, the West Bank, Southern Lebanon, and correctly identifies who these terrorists are.

And likewise identifies the house of Israel, and the house of Jacob.

Before getting into all this Rothchild/Ashkenazi stuff, in case that's where you are going, I'm not interested in the slightest. Been there, done that, I don't buy it.

The Biblical prophecies, OT, Jesus, all involve an Israel, with Jerusalem, the land of the Isrealites. And when I look at the world, I see that. To me, it's a simple thing.

It doesn't mean I take a simplistic approach, I've explored various theories about the modern inhabitants of Israel. But like so many things I've found, the answers tend to be simple.

Much love!

"And likewise identifies the house of Israel, and the house of Jacob"

"And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine :And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation." (Ex 19)

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people." (1 Peter 2)

Jesus believers are the fulfillment of the promise of the first covenant spoken by God Himself before the mount, which the people at that time drew back from. To say that the fulfillment of the covenant in Christ with the first promise of God before the mount is only spiritual, while the carnal seed remains with respect to God, is to subordinate the Spirit of truth to the carnal of this life.

You are yet carnal.

The only Jews of today with God are those that are circumcised inwardly by the Spirit. You can honor them of the flesh as Jews and Israel of God and seed of promise to be dealt with by God one more final and really last time in the last of the really last days to come, but God does not.

Untake the vail of Moses from your heart, and the idolizing of the carnal seed that reject the Testator to this day, and see Jesus and His Covenant only.

 

[robert derrick]

wow sorry man it seems you are way off base here

Jesus is the fulfillment of the law therefore the Life of Christ is to walk in the same. also you didn't show exactly what the law of Christ is, the apostle were entrusted by Jesus to administer the ministry of grace which is based on the good news which is that Jesus has fulfilled the faith of Abraham in the Grace and Truth of God.

you don't seem to get the law of faith that was required to be fulfilled by even Adam and Eve. they believed and trusted something other than the Word of God, and died of the life they had and were left with a dust to dust life the same as animals have in the flesh. to live the Life that Jesus has restored in the Son of man, one must live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Jesus being the Word of God is that Life which can be received by being born again of the Holy Spirit. hence by believing and trusting the Word of God revealed has always been required by the Almighty. so the rules have never changed.

"also you didn't show exactly what the law of Christ is"

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Cor 6)

There are more points of law of Christ if you like (James 2:10).

 

[robert derrick]

Rather, being born from Abraham isn't enough, you have to be of the child of promise. And being born of Isaac isn't enough, you have to be of the chosen child. And being born of Jacob isn't enough, you must be of faith.

If this sounds familiar it's from Romans 9, the primary teaching of that chapter.

Simply being a circumcised Jew isn't enough, if you don't believe. But that's not to say there is no such thing as a Jew, and in the same way the Bible speaks. This is not to say that Christians are the "new Jews". In Christ, there is no Jew or gentile, we are one in Him. And yet to the children of Jacob will be land grants by tribe, in the millennial kingdom. According to the Bible.

Much love!

But that's not to say there is no such thing as a Jew, and in the same way the Bible speaks.

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly"

They are not Jews, even if they or you say they are. (Rev 2:9,3:9)

The only Jews that God and Scripture acknowledge to day is they that are circumcised inwardly: "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly."

Reject plainness of Scripture, and you have no foundation to stand upon.

 

[robert derrick]

" In Christ, there is no Jew or gentile, we are one in Him. And yet to the children of Jacob will be land grants by tribe, in the millennial kingdom. According to the Bible."

@marks can you clearly explain these two clashing sentences you wrote above, via scripture and with secular history?

Thanks,

APAK

Such land grants along with the tables of stone are done away with.

The carnal seed of Abraham was done away with, when they did away with Christ Jesus.

Why is that so hard to understand? What is this end times fetish with fleshy people?

The death of God on the cross was not just a blip in the history stream of 'Jewish' people.

"Oh well, I sent my only Son to them and they killed Him and cast Him out. But, hey, I'm going to try one really really last time..." (Matthew 21)

No, they that abide in unbelief are miserably destroyed, and a nation no longer, even as Jesus said; however, for the love the fathers' sakes they can be grafted in again to the commonwealth of Israel that is in Christ Jesus only (Rom 11:23), along with the rest of His seed of promise to Abraham:

"That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Rom 9)

Only end times fetishes causes 'Christians' to go googly-eyed over the carnal Jews that abide in unbelief as having anything at all to do with our father Abraham and His Lord Jesus.

Understand this once and for all: Abraham has never had and will never have anything to do with a people of the flesh that believe not His God: Jesus. And the only promise made to him pertaining to His seed of the flesh was done by God sending Jesus to them, and they rejected Him. Promise kept, promise over.

What is so hard to understand about that?

 

[marks]

Get your eyes on Jesus only (Mark 9:8), and you will have liberty to have your heart on God only in the Scriptures of the New Covenant.

You'd do better to not presume.

 

[marks]

Such land grants along with the tables of stone are done away with.

OK, if you don't think the prophecies will be fulfilled, there won't be too much for us to discuss.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You are yet carnal.

Bye!

 

[robert derrick]

Bye!

I apologize for upsetting you. I guess I get involved in what I'm writing and thinking, and don't consider peoples' feelings. I certainly don't consider my own, but only care about the doctrine, whether mine or that of others. If I learn and proven wrong by Scripture, I'm grateful and acknowledge it.

I only break off, when I see people are being serious, or are only repeating their own things, without responding in kind.

Being an old military man, I'm not touchy feely.

However, an accusation is different, and I acknowledge what I said was accusative. I should have rather said it appeared to be a kind of carnal thinking to me.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Such land grants along with the tables of stone are done away with.

The carnal seed of Abraham was done away with, when they did away with Christ Jesus.

Why is that so hard to understand? What is this end times fetish with fleshy people?

The death of God on the cross was not just a blip in the history stream of 'Jewish' people.

"Oh well, I sent my only Son to them and they killed Him and cast Him out. But, hey, I'm going to try one really really last time..." (Matthew 21)

No, they that abide in unbelief are miserably destroyed, and a nation no longer, even as Jesus said; however, for the love the fathers' sakes they can be grafted in again to the commonwealth of Israel that is in Christ Jesus only (Rom 11:23), along with the rest of His seed of promise to Abraham:

"That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Rom 9)

Only end times fetishes causes 'Christians' to go googly-eyed over the carnal Jews that abide in unbelief as having anything at all to do with our father Abraham and His Lord Jesus.

Understand this once and for all: Abraham has never had and will never have anything to do with a people of the flesh that believe not His God: Jesus. And the only promise made to him pertaining to His seed of the flesh was done by God sending Jesus to them, and they rejected Him. Promise kept, promise over.

What is so hard to understand about that?

So all the prophecies concerning those physical descendants of Abraham Issac and Jacob repenting and being restored are all false?