The law of Moses vs the law of Christ

[robert derrick]

First, the gospel is everlasting (Revelation 14:6). In other words, the grace, mercy, and life offered to Adam and Eve after the fall is the same as offered to us. The gospel as revealed to Israel is essentially the same as offered to the church. The only difference is that in the sacrifices of the OT which prefigured Christ, which the patriarchs looked forward to, is now realized in Christ, which we now look to as our High Priest now mediating on our behalf before His Father in the heavenly sanctuary.
Israel did mess up. But not because they failed to obey, we've all done that. As Paul said in Romans, they went about to establish their own righteousness rather than the righteousness of God. What they failed to do was believe. But what God was hoping to accomplish in Israel is no different than what He hopes to accomplish in us. Righteousness by faith. The just shall live by faith, the integral component of the gospel, is common to both testaments. But the righteousness we are to aspire to... The righteousness which we are to hunger and thirst for, is God's righteousness, as revealed in His laws, which are a written transcript of His character. The Ten commandments are the perfect written revelation of the righteousness of God. They have not been done away with.
The scripture you and others are so fond of quoting, in defense of you theory that the laws of God are no longer applicable to NT believers, that being...
KJV 2 Corinthians 3:7-9
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
Does not say what you want it to say. It does not say the law has been done away. What it does say is, the ministration of death has been done away, as well as the glory that shone from the face of Moses. The ministration... That is the means by which righteousness was applied and established. It's still by faith. But no longer is it by law. The law stands, but the grace and power of God is now ministered through the indwelling Spirit of God... Christ within. No longer do we have the services and the feast days and the Levitical priesthood and the sacrifices etc. We have Christ, the embodiment and personification and the fulfillment of the laws pertaining to the sanctuary.
The moral law however is still God's standard of righteousness. And God's purpose remains the same. Our obedience. What the main change between old and new testament is not the law, but the means by which the law is impressed upon us.
Oh and one more thing. The ten commandments, the moral law that James calls the royal law, the one Paul calls good and holy, yeah, that law which was spoken by Jesus from Sinai, therefore the law of Christ, has ten commandments. Not nine.

Does not say what you want it to say. It does not say the law has been done away. What it does say is, the ministration of death has been done away, as well as the glory that shone from the face of Moses.

Now we descend into irrationality to rationalize a false doctrine to the point where Scripture no longer makes any plain sense.

Ministration is ministry.

You make difference between the commandments of blessing and law of cursing. Now you make difference between the ministry of the commandments, which is death, and the commandments of blessing?

And so the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, is not the same as the law and commandments that were written and engraven on stones, which is given to minister.

And so the ministry of the law written and engraven in stones was not the law written and engraven in stones.

Therefore the ministry of the Word (Acts 6:4) written and engraven in our hearts is not the Word written and engraven in our hearts.

So now, we have a separation of commandments of blessing from law of cursing, and a further necessary separation of ministry of the commandments from the actual commandments thereof.

Right. Got it.

No longer do we have the Levitical priesthood. What the main change between old and new testament is not the law, but the means by which the law is impressed upon us.

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

So, the Levitical priesthood being changed means we no longer have the Levitical priesthood, but the law being of necessity likewise changed does not mean we no longer have the law. In fact, the law is not changed at all.

God says it was necessary to change the law with the priesthood under which that law was given, but He didn't change it afterall. So, by the above 'reasoning' of separation between ministry engraved and commandment written, we see a similar separation between the priesthood ordained and the law that ordained it. And so the priesthood is changed and done away, as with the ministry of old, but the law and commandants giving that priesthood and ministry are not changed, but still with us.

Finally, the ministry as given by the law of a carnal commandment (Heb 7:16) has changed, but not the law of a carnal commandment that gave the ministry. And so, that law still engraved in stones in heaven does not give what it once gave, the ministration of death, neither can it give something new, because it is not changed, and so what does that law now give? Certainly not the ministry of Christ, which is given by the ministry of His Word, not by the ministration of the law of Moses.

Just think of it:

1. The ministry of death written in stone that the law gave being written stone, was done away, but not the law which still can only give the ministry of death as it is still written in stone.

2. The priesthood that was made by the law written in stone, has been changed and done away, but not the law which can still only make that priesthood as it is still written in stone.

And one more time for good measure:
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

What the main change between old and new testament is not the law

The law of necessity must be changed, but the change is not the law.

Sabbath-keeping rationalizing has gone completely irrational, even as the created-christ givers who say 'the Word was God' does not really mean the Word was God, but rather that the Word was not God. Not only am I more convinced than ever about the Scriptures that changed the Old to that of the New, I will also keep my rational mind.

Cultism is the art of losing one's rational mind in order to keep once irrational doctrine, and feel really uniquely special above all others in the process. (Anonymous)

 

[FHII]

So those "do not do things" listed in 1 Cor. and are covered by grace, are things our liberty in Christ allows us to do now, because after we murder someone, grace covers the sin automatically, and all things are automatically made right again? Is that how it works in your religion?

No, all things are not automatically made right again. It says all things are lawful but not expedient. Murder wouldn't be expedient. The law is going to looking for you for one thing, probably no one will want to be around you. Its going to be tough serving God when you are in jail and no longer attending a Church service.

Jesus said all manner of sin would be forgiven except blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. Now did he mean murder as well? If not, what other sins are not included in "all sin"? Where's the cut off line and who decides it?

Were you asking in general, or did you have someone in mind? Moses, David or Paul perhaps?

Its not really a question I think too much until someone wants to play the "what about this sin" game. I reckon its God's business, not mine. I don't think too many murderers are interested in God to begin with, and those that are I believe God knows there true heart and will judge righteously.

 

[robert derrick]

The commandments of Christ are the commandments of God: the entire volume of scriptures are “Christ’s commandments”:

"Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)


"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." (John 12:49)

"He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me." (John 14:24)

"And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus." (2 Timothy 3:15)

This practice of nullifying scripture is detestable.

No Scripture has been ever nullified, which suggests no longer existing as Scripture.

All Scripture is still profitable and of God for instruction and use, but not all Scripture is to be obeyed as law of Christ. Changing the law of Moses into that of Christ does away with the law of Moses as the law of God for His covenant in Christ, but it does not nullify, or do away with the wisdom of the old, only the necessity of keeping it as law in the New.

You want to abstain from eating pork as the physical seed in the old covenant were commanded? Fine. Just don't preach it as necessary for all believers to do likewise. You want to keep the law of the Sabbath? Fine. Just don't preach it as law for all in Christ.

You need to consider what words you use, because words do mean things. Also, if the law of Moses is not done away with, and their sentence of death if transgressed is not nullified, then you need read up on the whole law of commandments, statutes, judgments, and ordinances, especially the no pork part, and obey them all.

I for one do not at all find eating pork detestable.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You need to consider what words you use, because words do mean things.

I appreciate your perspective here.

But all scripture is important to make one wise in the faith. Perhaps I failed to communicate this effectively.

"For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope." (Romans 15:4)

 

[Brakelite]

Your entire spiel is based on a misquote. And you claim you are rational? I didn't once say there was no change in the law regarding the priesthood... There had to be a change to accommodate a different kind of priest... One that was eternal and not mortal.
Second, I said the main change was not in the law... Saying the main change was somewhere else... That is not saying there was no change in the law. Are we to still observe the civil laws for a theocratic nation? Are we to stone transgressors of the commandments?

The law of necessity must be changed, but the change is not the law.

Your words. Not mine.

 

[robert derrick]

Your entire spiel is based on a misquote. And you claim you are rational? I didn't once say there was no change in the law regarding the priesthood... There had to be a change to accommodate a different kind of priest... One that was eternal and not mortal.
Second, I said the main change was not in the law... Saying the main change was somewhere else... That is not saying there was no change in the law. Are we to still observe the civil laws for a theocratic nation? Are we to stone transgressors of the commandments?

Your words. Not mine.

I'll accept the error. I suppose I was led to believe you could make a direct contradiction of Scripture, since you have travelled down the road of irrationality.

You people go from slicing between commandments and law of God, as though any of the law was amoral? Neutrally moral? As though any of God's law was not 'morally' given. As a word and term 'moral' is an invention of man's humanism, not to be applied to God and His Word.

All the law of God is spiritual, true and righteous altogether (Psalms 19). From the 1st commandment written to the last ordinance and statute thereof.

You slice up God's Word with humanistic intellect in order to push a carnal commandment on the innocent, by forbidding God nailing His 'really moral' commandments to the cross, while only the 'amoral' rubbish law was done away, along with that 'amoral' part of the Covenant of God. And then you have your specialized commandments eternally interred and hallowed in the ark of the covenant, where even God Himself wouldn't dare touch them.

And when Scripture plainly says that all such writings engraven on stones have been done away, you then slice between the written ministry of the word and the written word itself: that is the irrational effort of insult to intelligence, that I will not abide. It was the Word of God written in commandments and law on stone, that were placed in the ark, and not just the '10 Commandments':

And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. (Ex 24:12)

I am quite sure you will be able to slice and dice Scripture in order to have it not say what it plainly says. Slice away, and I will be taking more notes.

You people are just like the created-christ pushers who try to say 'the Word was God' does not really mean the Word was God, but rather that the Word was indeed from God and so with God very closely, that it is as though the Word was God Himself, but of course not really God Himself, but only really like Himself.

And that is where I left them, and this is where I leave you. I do not go down the road of foolishness and vain arguments that have no common sense that insults God, Scripture, and adults. That is a far different thing than showing plain Scripture to prove reasonable doctrine.

And I certainly say 'you people' as being separate from the body of Christ as you have made yourselves, along with judging all non-Sabbathers to eternal damnation along with the rest of the fornicators, idolaters, and baby-killers. And one of your own went on to say how glad he was that we rebellious reprobates won't be messing up your Sabbath heaven.

You talk so sweetly and graciously of all your most wonderfully charming and worshipful get-togethers in your own little Sabbath realm, and yet your hearts are just as dark and carnal as any other lawgiving accuser of the brethren.

 

[robert derrick]

I appreciate your perspective here.

But all scripture is important to make one wise in the faith. Perhaps I failed to communicate this effectively.

"For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope." (Romans 15:4)

Which I totally agree. All Scripture is still Scripture of God to be read and practiced personally by faith, but not all Scripture is still Scripture of His Covenant and law to be obeyed as such by all believers.

The Scriptures contained in the Old Covenant, written for the physical seed of Abraham by Moses and the prophets, are not the Scriptures contained in the Covenant of Christ written for the Spiritual seed of Abraham by the apostles. And so it is with the law, commandments, statutes, ordinances, and judgements of the Old vs the law, doctrine, ordinances, and commandments in the New.

They are different, because they are made for a different people in a different Covenant. Much of the Old is indeed written again in the New, but likewise much in the Old is not written again for the New. We are bound to obey all that is written in the New, and we are free to practise whatsoever is written anywhere in the Old as new creatures in Christ, but we are not bound to obey it.

Simply put: Forbidding pork is written in the law of the Old, but not in the law of the New. Therefore, any may forego pork by example of Scripture of old, but none may forbid it of others as law of Christ. Dittoes circumcision and Sabbath keeping and any other ordinance, commandment, statute, judgement written in the law of Moses, but not likewise found written in the law of Christ.

And we must obey the commandment not to kill nor to commit adultery, because it is written in the law of Christ. (James 2:11)

This thread is not about forbidding any believer to practice any Scripture they wish, but only about rejecting any law they then make out of their personal practise, unless I see it written plainly in the Scriptures of the Covenant of Christ written specifically by His own chosen apostles.

 

[robert derrick]

I appreciate your perspective here.

But all scripture is important to make one wise in the faith. Perhaps I failed to communicate this effectively.

"For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope." (Romans 15:4)

All Scripture given by God is still given by God as true and righteous altogether. (Psalms 19)

The Covenant itself was made old and vanished, as well as the law of the Covenant done away, but the Scriptures themselves have not been disavowed by God. The Scriptures that gave the Covenant and the law remain, and they remain good for use and instruction, but it is the power of the law and the keeping of covenant that has been disannulled by God. (Gal 3)

The power of the law is to define sin and the judgment against it (Rom 4:15)(1 Cor 15:56), and the keeping of Covenant is done by the Word of that Covenant from God.

The Scriptures of the law of Moses of old still have wisdom and power of God to bless, but they no longer have any power of law to curse: they no longer define transgression against God. They no longer have power to condemn them that do not obey it as law of God; likewise they no longer have promise to keep Covenant with God. The Jews' religion is made out of the Old Covenant in rejection of Christ, where they still desire to keep law of Moses, and none of it has any strength nor promise of hope and life with God.

And so they that preach law of Moses as law of Christ, likewise must preach the Old Covenant as Covenant of Christ, along with the priesthood and the sacrifices in blood that the God made by law of a carnal commandment from the mount (Heb 7:16). And in addition they will of necessity judge and condemn the guiltless, according to that law. (Matthew 12:7)

And so, if any do according to any Scripture of God as it is written, then they are blessed in their deed, but if any teach for law any Scripture of God not written as such in the law of His New Covenant of Christ, then he is cursed in his false doctrine.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

All Scripture given by God is still given by God as true and righteous altogether. (Psalms 19)

The Covenant itself was made old and vanished, as well as the law of the Covenant done away, but the Scriptures themselves have not been disavowed by God. The Scriptures that gave the Covenant and the law remain, and they remain good for use and instruction, but it is the power of the law and the keeping of covenant that has been disannulled by God. (Gal 3)

The power of the law is to define sin and the judgment against it (Rom 4:15)(1 Cor 15:56), and the keeping of Covenant is done by the Word of that Covenant from God.

The Scriptures of the law of Moses of old still have wisdom and power of God to bless, but they no longer have any power of law to curse: they no longer define transgression against God. They no longer have power to condemn them that do not obey it as law of God; likewise they no longer have promise to keep Covenant with God. The Jews' religion is made out of the Old Covenant in rejection of Christ, where they still desire to keep law of Moses, and none of it has any strength nor promise of hope and life with God.

And so they that preach law of Moses as law of Christ, likewise must preach the Old Covenant as Covenant of Christ, along with the priesthood and the sacrifices in blood that the God made by law of a carnal commandment from the mount (Heb 7:16). And in addition they will of necessity judge and condemn the guiltless, according to that law. (Matthew 12:7)

And so, if any do according to any Scripture of God as it is written, then they are blessed in their deed, but if any teach for law any Scripture of God not written as such in the law of His New Covenant of Christ, then he is cursed in his false doctrine.

"For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another ; In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel." (Romans 2:11-16)

"And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Romans 2:27-29)

The natural good deeds of a good man don’t necessarily mean that he rests on certain a day of the week, or that he sacrifices animals, or that he offers any food offerings unto God; it means that he doesn’t sin in action towards God or his neighbor. And those in Christ do by nature, the spiritual nature, those things contained in the law. This is how we establish the law.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." (Romans 3:31)

If we understand the law, we understand sin. And when we come to understand what sin is biblically, we won’t be offended at this scripture:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin" (1 John 3:9)

Excuse me for wandering from the topic a little.

Thoughts?

 

[robert derrick]

"For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another ; In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel." (Romans 2:11-16)

"And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Romans 2:27-29)

The natural good deeds of a good man don’t necessarily mean that he rests on certain a day of the week, or that he sacrifices animals, or that he offers any food offerings unto God; it means that he doesn’t sin in action towards God or his neighbor. And those in Christ do by nature, the spiritual nature, those things contained in the law. This is how we establish the law.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." (Romans 3:31)

If we understand the law, we understand sin. And when we come to understand what sin is biblically, we won’t be offended at this scripture:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin" (1 John 3:9)

Excuse me for wandering from the topic a little.

Thoughts?

I'm not sure what you are getting at, other than faith alone is dead? And being the circumcision of the flesh does not justify, but the doing of good? And the law is knowledge of sin, so that by nature those in Christ do not transgress it, being written in their hearts, but rather establish it, and fulfill the righteousness of it?

Responding to some things:
1. I believe there is difference between salvation through faith and justification by works. We are both saved and justified by grace (Eph 2)(Rom 3:24), and we are saved through faith when we believe from the heart, but we must go on to justification as doers and not hearers or professors only. (Titus 1:16)

We are justified by grace, because though justification is by the doing of faith, we can still make no claim of debt from God, because without God's faith and grace given freely, we could never do His will to please Him.

2. Doing good as a good person is good, but does not justify without faith from the heart in Jesus. There must first be salvation through faith, then good works of faith. Without the faith of Jesus, no man shall be saved, though by works they do good to others as good neighbors. They are good sinners only, for without faith it is impossible to please God.

2. I believe 1 John 3 is in the context of sins of transgression of the law (3:4), whereas no man, except Jesus, is without sin. (1:8,10)

Christians do not live a sinless life of perfection, but certainly can and ought live without transgression. Sins of imperfection are covered by grace, but sins of transgression must be confessed and washed clean by the blood of the Lamb, once again.

Also 'commit' sin can either mean one time transgression or an open commitment to it. The former can be forgiven with confession and washed clean (1:9), while the latter forbids keeping company with such, if no repentance. (1 Cor 5:11)

3. I take the matter of being Jew literally. He is not a Jew that is one outwardly, and is a liar, if he says so (Rev 2:9,3:9). But he is a Jew that is one inwardly, which is a member of the body of Christ.

I believe the physical seed of Abraham, to whom the Old Covenant and law was made, have forfeited any status of promise of Abraham by killing the One Who promised Abraham. They are no longer the physical seed of promise as was Isaac, but have now made themselves the physical seed of Abraham and Hagar (Gal 4:25-31). They joined with Ishmael by unbelief and persecution of the promised seed. They now have their own nation apart from God, even as the physical seed of Ishmael. They are just another nation among nations of the earth, and shall be judged as such, when they join with the final beast of persecution of the followers of the Lamb. They will be right there at Armageddon to make was with the Lord and His resurrected host in the air.

There is no more physical promised seed of Abraham and Sarah before God. Only the spiritual seed in Christ with inward circumcision of the heart. If the physical seed still has promises and prophesies of God to 'collect' on, then there would currently be two seeds of promise: the physical seed and the spiritual, which Paul declares is not the promise of Scripture:

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (Gal 3:16)

Christ made the promise to the seed of Abraham, He offered that promise to the physical seed from the mount Personally, and they drew away in the beginning (Ex 20:18) and crucified Him in the end, so that now that promise of Christ to Abraham is only fulfilled in Christ by the faith and justification of Abraham, both to believe and to do God's good will.

 

[DPMartin]

bump

 

[sundown sam]

Robert,

I just got on the forum and noticed you responded and I will respond accordingly. I am not here to point finger, nor to argue, only to discuss, all I ask is to weigh the discussion truthfully. Again, I will respond tomorrow.

And so the law of God has changed form that of Moses to that of Christ (Heb 7:12). If any of that law of Moses of old has been written again for the covenant of Christ by His apostles, then it is law and commandment for Christians today. And much has been written again, such as the law of marriage (Rom 7:1-3), thou shalt not kill, steal, commit adultery, etc... (James 2), as well as the greatest commandments called the royal law by James.

No Sabbath keeping. In fact, the only place even the very word 'Sabbath' is mentioned for the Covenant of Christ, is when we are told not to judge one another with it, along with meats, drinks, holy days, etc...all of which things from law of Moses have been done away, and not renewed again as such in law of Christ. (2 Cor 2:16-17)

And let me also say plainly that I am glad for any believer who keeps a Sabbath for their own blessing and benefit in Christ. I do not say that I don't observe one day out of seven as a day of rest, and unto the Lord for His blessing. But to then go about preaching it, as well as pertaining to a certain day of the week, as law and commandment for all believers to obey in the Covenant of Christ, is to me an error of ministry, no matter how well intentioned.

Unless there is Scripture in the Covenant of Christ written as such. And to me all such Scripture is written after the changing of the covenant of God from old to Christ, which occurred with Jesus' death on the cross. All Scriptures after that contain the law of Christ written by His apostles. The apostles wrote the Gospels of Jesus as an obedient Jew and prophet of God, and so He was obedient to the law of Moses, which He Himself as LORD gave on the mount.


I like to have a mutual discussion, not pointing fingers whose wrong

I agree. We should keep our fingers pointed to the Scriptures, and let everyone judge for themselves.[/QUOTE]

 

[kcnalp]

Hebrews 8:13 (NKJV)
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.

 

[robert derrick]

"For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another ; In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel." (Romans 2:11-16)

"And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Romans 2:27-29)

The natural good deeds of a good man don’t necessarily mean that he rests on certain a day of the week, or that he sacrifices animals, or that he offers any food offerings unto God; it means that he doesn’t sin in action towards God or his neighbor. And those in Christ do by nature, the spiritual nature, those things contained in the law. This is how we establish the law.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." (Romans 3:31)

If we understand the law, we understand sin. And when we come to understand what sin is biblically, we won’t be offended at this scripture:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin" (1 John 3:9)

Excuse me for wandering from the topic a little.

Thoughts?

And when we come to understand what sin is biblically

That is the main point. Preachers are not supposed to tell the people what sin is, but are supposed to tell us what God says sin is.

And God said in the law of Moses many things to be sin, that He says no more int he law of Christ. But there are sins by the law od Christ, that were not sin in the law of Moses.

Drunkenness is a sin in the new covenant, and it was not written against as a matter of law in the old. It wasn't 'wise', but neither was it a transgression of law.

And so, when trying to teach what sin is, we are of necessity trying to teach the law of God. So, we should begin by not teaching law of Moses as law of Christ.

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin" (1 John 3:9)

1 John 3 is in the context of transgression of the law. (3:4)

The written law of Christ is against specific things, such as fornication and lasciviousness, etc... It is not written against the 'sins of imperfection'.

And so, the context says whosoever is born of God doth not transgress the law of God.

 

[robert derrick]

Robert,

I just got on the forum and noticed you responded and I will respond accordingly. I am not here to point finger, nor to argue, only to discuss, all I ask is to weigh the discussion truthfully. Again, I will respond tomorrow.

And so the law of God has changed form that of Moses to that of Christ (Heb 7:12). If any of that law of Moses of old has been written again for the covenant of Christ by His apostles, then it is law and commandment for Christians today. And much has been written again, such as the law of marriage (Rom 7:1-3), thou shalt not kill, steal, commit adultery, etc... (James 2), as well as the greatest commandments called the royal law by James.

No Sabbath keeping. In fact, the only place even the very word 'Sabbath' is mentioned for the Covenant of Christ, is when we are told not to judge one another with it, along with meats, drinks, holy days, etc...all of which things from law of Moses have been done away, and not renewed again as such in law of Christ. (2 Cor 2:16-17)

And let me also say plainly that I am glad for any believer who keeps a Sabbath for their own blessing and benefit in Christ. I do not say that I don't observe one day out of seven as a day of rest, and unto the Lord for His blessing. But to then go about preaching it, as well as pertaining to a certain day of the week, as law and commandment for all believers to obey in the Covenant of Christ, is to me an error of ministry, no matter how well intentioned.

Unless there is Scripture in the Covenant of Christ written as such. And to me all such Scripture is written after the changing of the covenant of God from old to Christ, which occurred with Jesus' death on the cross. All Scriptures after that contain the law of Christ written by His apostles. The apostles wrote the Gospels of Jesus as an obedient Jew and prophet of God, and so He was obedient to the law of Moses, which He Himself as LORD gave on the mount.


I like to have a mutual discussion, not pointing fingers whose wrong

I agree. We should keep our fingers pointed to the Scriptures, and let everyone judge for themselves.

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