The law of Moses vs the law of Christ

[robert derrick]

So all the prophecies concerning those physical descendants of Abraham Issac and Jacob repenting and being restored are all false?

I believe they already are, along with all physical seed on earth.

In a word, the physical seed of Abraham are not going to get a do over.

They killed the Son, and all that physical seed gets is what they themselves prophesied to Jesus, if they abide in unbelief: miserable destruction. (Matthew 21:41)

There is only one physical seed and one blood on earth now, and all are commanded to repent and believe. (Acts 17)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I believe they already are, along with all physical seed on earth. I will offer what I believe is Scriptural proof next.

When did this occur?

Ez 37
and say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. 22 I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. 23 They will no longer defilethemselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

24 “‘My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. 25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your ancestors lived. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever,and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever.27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the Lord make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.’”

 

[robert derrick]

When did this occur?

Ez 37
and say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. 22 I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. 23 They will no longer defilethemselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

24 “‘My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. 25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your ancestors lived. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever,and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever.27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the Lord make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.’”

"When did this occur?"

It was meant to occur with the coming of their promised Messiah, Who is the One prophesied to do those things for His people.

"Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers." (Romans 15)

Now, it will never occur, not with a physical seed on earth. Those prophecies of old are no more, for they were a promise with condition of faith and obedience to the physical seed given, even as the covenant in which it was given was made after the law of a carnal commandment: that covenant, and law, and priesthood, and physical seed has vanished with the promise and the prophecies made therein.

The covenant from the mount was not the covenant made with Abraham, which was before the law by hundreds of years (Gal 3:17), that covenant is now fulfilled in Christ with Abraham's only remaining seed, that of promise, which is Christ, even as with Isaac. The physical seed is no more of Abraham by Sarah, but is cast out with the bondwoman and her son, who's sons they have become by their own rejection of the God and the faith and the promise of God to Abraham:

"Now we, brethren, Isaac was, are the children of promise. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free." (Gal 4:28-31)

The covenant of the law with the physical seed that was made between the Covenant of promise with Abraham, and the covenant of Christ fulfilling the promise of God has vanished: it with the physical seed thereof are as remembered of God no more, as He never knew it nor them. (Ezek 3:20)(Matthew 7:23)

 

[robert derrick]

When did this occur?

Ez 37
and say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. 22 I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. 23 They will no longer defilethemselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

24 “‘My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. 25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your ancestors lived. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever,and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever.27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the Lord make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.’”

Is the Old Covenant still God's Covenant, or has it vanished? Is the law of Moses of old still the law of God, or is law of Christ?

Did Jesus come to confirm those promises and prophecies of old, as Scripture says? Are we in the last days, and is this not the last time, which these prophecies pertained to? (Dan 8:19)(1 John 2:18)(Acts 2:17)(Heb 1:2)

Are there now two seeds of Abraham as pertaining to promise of God, physical and spiritual? Is spiritual just symbolic? Not indeed true and real? Is physical more powerful and enduring than spiritual? Does God in Scripture speak more enduringly and persuasively of the physical than the spiritual, even though all Scripture is given by the Spirit, and God is a Spirit?

Even as the covenant made with a physical seed after the law of a carnal commandment is done away and vanished, so is that physical seed made under that covenant and law.

The flesh is nothing, and there is no more profit in it pertaining to promise, covenant, and prophesy of God.

I cease to read any Scripture with a vail over my heart,(2 Cor 13) that has vanished away with the it's covenant, law, and physical seed.

When that vail is taken away, I now have liberty to see only the Spirit in the Scripture of truth and of prophecy of God. No physical seed clouds my eyes and reading and judgment of such things.

When I read any prophecy of Scripture, I see no vanished covenant and physical seed of that covenant, I see Jesus and His faith and body and seed of promise only.

Those prophecies of Scripture, in that they apply to a carnal seed after the flesh without faith of Abraham and of God, have vanished. They will never occur. They are wiped out from all things, even as names blotted from the book.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"When did this occur?"

It was meant to occur with the coming of their promised Messiah, Who is the One prophesied to do those things for His people.

"Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers." (Romans 15)

Now, it will never occur, not with a physical seed on earth. Those prophecies of old are no more, for they were a promise with condition of faith and obedience to the physical seed given, even as the covenant in which it was given was made after the law of a carnal commandment: that covenant, and law, and priesthood, and physical seed has vanished with the promise and the prophecies made therein.

The covenant from the mount was not the covenant made with Abraham, which was before the law by hundreds of years (Gal 3:17), that covenant is now fulfilled in Christ with Abraham's only remaining seed, that of promise, which is Christ, even as with Isaac. The physical seed is no more of Abraham by Sarah, but is cast out with the bondwoman and her son, who's sons they have become by their own rejection of the God and the faith and the promise of God to Abraham:

"Now we, brethren, Isaac was, are the children of promise. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free." (Gal 4:28-31)

The covenant of the law with the physical seed that was made between the Covenant of promise with Abraham, and the covenant of Christ fulfilling the promise of God has vanished: it with the physical seed thereof are as remembered of God no more, as He never knew it nor them. (Ezek 3:20)(Matthew 7:23)

It will never occure

so God lied? Prophecy can not be trusted?

I guess might as well throw my Bible out

it’s funny how 70 ad was prophesied, and came true, yet the rest of prophecy will not come true.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Is the Old Covenant still God's Covenant, or has it vanished? Is the law of Moses of old still the law of God, or is law of Christ?

Did Jesus come to confirm those promises and prophecies of old, as Scripture says? Are we in the last days, and is this not the last time, which these prophecies pertained to? (Dan 8:19)(1 John 2:18)(Acts 2:17)(Heb 1:2)

Are there now two seeds of Abraham as pertaining to promise of God, physical and spiritual? Is spiritual just symbolic? Not indeed true and real? Is physical more powerful and enduring than spiritual? Does God in Scripture speak more enduringly and persuasively of the physical than the spiritual, even though all Scripture is given by the Spirit, and God is a Spirit?

Even as the covenant made with a physical seed after the law of a carnal commandment is done away and vanished, so is that physical seed made under that covenant and law.

The flesh is nothing, and there is no more profit in it pertaining to promise, covenant, and prophesy of God.

I cease to read any Scripture with a vail over my heart,(2 Cor 13) that has vanished away with the it's covenant, law, and physical seed.

When that vail is taken away, I now have liberty to see only the Spirit in the Scripture of truth and of prophecy of God. No physical seed clouds my eyes and reading and judgment of such things.

When I read any prophecy of Scripture, I see no vanished covenant and physical seed of that covenant, I see Jesus and His faith and body and seed of promise only.

Those prophecies of Scripture, in that they apply to a carnal seed after the flesh without faith of Abraham and of God, have vanished. They will never occur. They are wiped out from all things, even as names blotted from the book.

Prophecy is prophecy

prophecy is God saying. This will happen

when it happens. Those who witness it know the Lord God is one, who can tell things will happen centuries in advance, and they happen verbatim

not only was the 1st advent prophesied and literally came true in all aspect. The second advent also will occur literally as promised

It was prophesied Israel would fail and the promise would go to the Gentiles. It happened. But even then God tells us Gentiles not to be puffed up,

as paul said in Romans 11, God is not done, there will be a day when all isreal will be saved, as prophesied, as Jesus said, when the abomination of desolation occurs, we will have great tribulation ie the time of jacobs trouble. In the end Christ will return, set up his kingdom and fulfill prophecy,

because when God said it will happen, it will! You and I should not question God, we should just trust him, when he says it will happen it will

 

[robert derrick]

Prophecy is prophecy

prophecy is God saying. This will happen

when it happens. Those who witness it know the Lord God is one, who can tell things will happen centuries in advance, and they happen verbatim

not only was the 1st advent prophesied and literally came true in all aspect. The second advent also will occur literally as promised

It was prophesied Israel would fail and the promise would go to the Gentiles. It happened. But even then God tells us Gentiles not to be puffed up,

as paul said in Romans 11, God is not done, there will be a day when all isreal will be saved, as prophesied, as Jesus said, when the abomination of desolation occurs, we will have great tribulation ie the time of jacobs trouble. In the end Christ will return, set up his kingdom and fulfill prophecy,

because when God said it will happen, it will! You and I should not question God, we should just trust him, when he says it will happen it will

Prophecy is prophecy. prophecy is God saying. This will happen

And interpretation of prophecy is what you think God is saying will happen.

because when God said it will happen, it will! You and I should not question God, we should just trust him, when he says it will happen it will

I don't question God nor His Scripture nor His prophecy. I question, doubt, and reject your interpretation thereof. I have offered many scriptures with my reasonings of them. You offer and refute nothing in return. If you want to demonstrate that my reasoning of Scripture provided is false, then do it. And do it with other Scripture that proves it, or show better reasoning that convinces me of it.

I take Scripture literally and truly:

He is not a Jew, that is one outwardly. He is a Jew that is one inwardly. They who call themselves Jews by phsyical seed are now liars to jesus, whom they slew. (Rev 2:9, 3:9)

Do you?

He that was a Jew, and is not a Jew, and yet is calling himself a Jew. (Rev 17:8) This is the beast that ascended in the Jews' religion, after they crucified the true God and Christ: Jesus.

 

[robert derrick]

Prophecy is prophecy

prophecy is God saying. This will happen

when it happens. Those who witness it know the Lord God is one, who can tell things will happen centuries in advance, and they happen verbatim

not only was the 1st advent prophesied and literally came true in all aspect. The second advent also will occur literally as promised

It was prophesied Israel would fail and the promise would go to the Gentiles. It happened. But even then God tells us Gentiles not to be puffed up,

as paul said in Romans 11, God is not done, there will be a day when all isreal will be saved, as prophesied, as Jesus said, when the abomination of desolation occurs, we will have great tribulation ie the time of jacobs trouble. In the end Christ will return, set up his kingdom and fulfill prophecy,

because when God said it will happen, it will! You and I should not question God, we should just trust him, when he says it will happen it will

But even then God tells us Gentiles not to be puffed up,

1. I am not a Gentile. I am in the seed of promise, a citizen of the commonwealth of Israel. God's Israel, not man's. If you want to conform to the names of a covenant that has vanished away, then so be it. But that is where 'Gentiles' became named, and it meant separated from God. Strangers. Outcasts.

There is no such thing as a 'Gentile' church of Christ, or 'Gentile' Christians. It is a contradiction of names and terms.

And there is no church of Christ 'age', even as there is no ending of His everlasting Gospel (Rev 14:6, which will be preached to all the physical seed on the earth from mid heaven, and in the Lamb's own body for everlasting (Rev 5:6.22:1), even as Paul preached it in the marks of His own body. (Gal 6:17)

2. We as the seed of promise are not to be puffed up against unbelievers, because they can become believers. The physical seed is beloved of God for the fathers' sake (Rom 11:23), meaning they can be grafted back in again, for the sake of the fathers. Not because the physical seed in itself is anything to God, nor beloved above any other physical seed.

Jesus came to fulfill the promise of Abraham and the covenant of God to make the physical seed of Abraham above all people of the earth (Ex 19). That physical seed drew back from Him upon the mount (Ex 19), and then finally crucified Him on the cross. No more promise nor covenant for them. Ever. Except as individuals on earth that abide not in unbelief.

God will never turn to a physical see in particular to fulfill a promise over other inhabitors of the earth. He did that once and for all, the last time, with His Son Jesus, and they crucified Him for it. You really think the physical seed that did that endures with God? Was God the Son dying on the cross just a blip in the history of the physical seed and prophecies pertaining to them?

there will be a day when all Israel will be saved, as prophesied, as Jesus said

there is now a day when all Israel is saved, as prophesied, as Jesus did and still does.

I am a citizen of the Israel of God, as are all believers in Christ. If you do not want to be called a citizen of Israel, and prefer the name of Gentile, then that is your choice. It's not Scripture. Doesn't make you unsaved. Only misconcepted about such things.

when the abomination of desolation occurs,

That abomination that destroys God's good work began from the beginning, even as Lucifer rebelled in creation, the serpent slipped into the garden, Cain slew Abel, and the son of the bondwoman persecuted Isaac. As soon as God does anything good, the devil is right there to defile, deceive, and destroy.

And so have the wolves, antichrists, false apostles, and false christs, since Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Ghost to His believers. They were there in the days of the apostles, and they are here today, and until the resurrection, they shall keep coming.

we will have great tribulation in the time of Jacobs trouble

Dittoes here as well: "We must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God." (Acts 14) Even as the best gift is the one we nedd most at the time, so is the greatest tribulation the one we have most at the moment.

Jacob's trouble is our trouble, for we are the seed of Abraham as Isaac and Jacob. That physical seed is no longer that of Sarah, but of Hagar, by their own doing. They are no more Jacob after killing the Lord from the mount, than they are Isaac whom Ishmael persecuted. They have no more birthright to promise of God than Esau, who sold it for a morsel of bread, and thy sold it for a nation of their own among other nations without God. (John 11:48) It is now their physical nation that they wanted, not God's:

"Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel; Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation." (Ex 19)

The house of Jacob and the children of Israel that obey His voice indeed are His peculiar treasure upon the earth:

"And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people."(1 Peter 2)

The physical seed of Abraham and Rahab who reject His voice and Son are not. Not now. Not ever.

 

[FHII]

By mixing James with law of Moses, you are in effect teaching:

Scripture in James commands believers of Jesus to keep the whole law of Moses, and forbidding to offend in one point. While the Scripture in Galatians 5 condemns believers of Jesus who keep one point of law of Moses, to be debtors to the whole law of Moses.

There is on critical error here. Two, actually... But they are one in the same.

First, James was writing to the 12 scattered tribes of Israel. I know you have a debate going on about this with others... I haven't been interested. But it is a key point. The reason why is that James was supporting Jews keeping the Law of Moses while under the New Covenant. Its not me mixing the epistle of James with the Law of Moses: its James who does it, himself!

Consider this:

Acts 21:20-21 KJV
And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: [21] And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

Let me break it down to simpler points:
1. These were Jews who were believers in Christ.
2. They were zealous of the Law of Moses.
3. They were upset at Paul for teaching that Jews should forsake the Law of Moses.
4. They wanted it stopped and they wanted Paul to make amends.
5. If James wasn't the outright leader, he was at the very least a high ranking spokesman. And he did nothing to suppress it.

I have more points to make about this, but they come from other scripture:

Acts 15:19-20 KJV
Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: [20] But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

6. James felt it was ok to excuse the gentiles from the law (here its mainly talking about circumcision), but he NEVER freed Jews.
7. He STILL thought it good to lay certain restriction on the gentiles. Some of which Paul NEVER thought to preach or enforce.

In summary, when JAMES wrote the Epistle, there is no doubt that JAMES had keeping the Law of Moses in mind. That's why his identifying his target audiences is important.

Now, it is inspired scripture. So when God inspired him, GOD may have had other ideas and meanings. But JAMES was clearly thinking of the Law of Moses.

The Scripture is not the problem. Reading Scripture with the vail of Moses is the problem.

Well, in a sense you are right: scripture is not the problem. You do, however, have a huge problem with what the vail is. There is a vail of Moses, but its not what you think. The vail you are speaking about isn't even what you think. I digress... Scripture isn't the problem. It solves itself IF you hear the conclusion of the whole matter. The problem is when someone notes a verse or even a half verse and never checks for annotations or context.

 

[FHII]

There are so many problems with this post I am quoting from, that I don't intend to get to all of them. The root of the problem is the same, however.

When I stated that the Scripture plainly says to be drunk is a sin, I was not judging salvation and faith under grace, but only judging that it is in fact a transgression of point of law of Christ.

Lets start here. What is "the law of Christ"? It actually is listed in the Bible, as are his commandments. Plainly listed. This is a long thread and I may have missed you quoting IT as the Bible says.

I've only seen you list examples of what you claim is the law of Christ. And they were flat out partial quotes without context.

but Grace by God only allows a space of time to confess and repent of transgressions against His Son's law

So grace is limited to a short period of time? After that, THEN you must revert back to a set of laws? Which laws? Moses laws? Christ's laws or you version of Christ's laws?

I hate to be confrontational or condescending, but you being a military man, I'm sure you are not offended. The problem you have is you are forming a doctrine based on partial verses (not just the one in Gal 5, but many others) that are not in context. And you admitted that you believe its not needed. This is a wrong way to go about it

Ending sidenotes:

- The vail of Moses was the literal vail he put on because he was so annointed by God when he came off the mountain that Israel would've perished if they saw him face to face.
- The vail spoken of in 2 Cor 3 is the Law he brought and specifically the 10 Commandments.
- The Law of Christ is found in Gal 6:1-2, and by extension 3-10. A good back up reference is Matt 6:14-15.
- The commandments of Christ are found in 1 John 3:22.

 

[sundown sam]

I am assuming you do not believe in the keeping of the Sabbath. Please show me where in the Scriptures does it say that the Sabbath is done away with, and please explain your position, and then I will show you that the Scriptures agree with the keeping of the Sabbath. Let me may this clear, I like to have a mutual discussion, not pointing fingers whose wrong, The Scriptures will let us know what God made clear.

 

[sundown sam]

The law of Moses is the Law of God given to Moses to give to the people and if you agree with this statement then you would have to agree that it would be incorrect to make it appear like if Moses literally gave the Ten Commandment. Question to you, whose law were they (referring to the Ten Commandments), though God gave ordinances.

 

[sundown sam]

The law of Moses is God's law, so it would be incorrect to say that the law of Moses is done away with when it is God's law. The law of God has to be put in its right perspective being taught according to the Scriptures so that it does not interfere with the righteousness of God that we are made in Yeshus, nor with the Salvation of God.

There is a righteousness of the law and there is the righteousness of God that we are made in Yeshua. The righteousness of the law has to do with obedience and the Scriptures tell us if we walk after the Spirit the Spirit will fulfill the righteousness of the law. That walk of righteousness that the Spirit fulfills is the proof that we are made God's righteousness in Yeshua apart from the law, just like the fruit of the Spirit is the proof that the Spirit of God is in you.

The Scriptures is clear that the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Why is it not subject to the law of God, because the person is not walking after the Spirit, and it is as we walk after the Spirit that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled, and this passage is implying that the righteousness of the law can be fulfilled.

When man brought theology into the scriptures they deliberately distorted the word of God!

 

[sundown sam]

Please explain to me your statement... law of Moses vs law of Christ. What is the law of Moses and what is the law of Christ?

 

[robert derrick]

There are so many problems with this post I am quoting from, that I don't intend to get to all of them. The root of the problem is the same, however.



Lets start here. What is "the law of Christ"? It actually is listed in the Bible, as are his commandments. Plainly listed. This is a long thread and I may have missed you quoting IT as the Bible says.

I've only seen you list examples of what you claim is the law of Christ. And they were flat out partial quotes without context.


So grace is limited to a short period of time? After that, THEN you must revert back to a set of laws? Which laws? Moses laws? Christ's laws or you version of Christ's laws?

I hate to be confrontational or condescending, but you being a military man, I'm sure you are not offended. The problem you have is you are forming a doctrine based on partial verses (not just the one in Gal 5, but many others) that are not in context. And you admitted that you believe its not needed. This is a wrong way to go about it

Ending sidenotes:

- The vail of Moses was the literal vail he put on because he was so annointed by God when he came off the mountain that Israel would've perished if they saw him face to face.
- The vail spoken of in 2 Cor 3 is the Law he brought and specifically the 10 Commandments.
- The Law of Christ is found in Gal 6:1-2, and by extension 3-10. A good back up reference is Matt 6:14-15.
- The commandments of Christ are found in 1 John 3:22.

Your demands are on target and more than worthy of response. We may not agree, but I certainly would like you to at least understand as perfectly as possible, what I believe God is explaining and directing by Scripture. I'm glad you're sticking with me on this, at least for now. You're demand for clarity is hard as Clint, and forces me to be as clear as possible, which I like.

For now, before I can get into detail, my basic proposition is that God's Covenant with it's law, commandments, and prophecies has been completely scrapped, when it comes to any physical seed.

I will copy and paste a long letter of explanation I wrote up once in the next post to you. You don't have to read it. I will at first opportunity come back with detailed responses and Scripture, without so much talk. I know you like brevity. Thanks again.

 

[robert derrick]

There are so many problems with this post I am quoting from, that I don't intend to get to all of them. The root of the problem is the same, however.



Lets start here. What is "the law of Christ"? It actually is listed in the Bible, as are his commandments. Plainly listed. This is a long thread and I may have missed you quoting IT as the Bible says.

I've only seen you list examples of what you claim is the law of Christ. And they were flat out partial quotes without context.


So grace is limited to a short period of time? After that, THEN you must revert back to a set of laws? Which laws? Moses laws? Christ's laws or you version of Christ's laws?

I hate to be confrontational or condescending, but you being a military man, I'm sure you are not offended. The problem you have is you are forming a doctrine based on partial verses (not just the one in Gal 5, but many others) that are not in context. And you admitted that you believe its not needed. This is a wrong way to go about it

Ending sidenotes:

- The vail of Moses was the literal vail he put on because he was so annointed by God when he came off the mountain that Israel would've perished if they saw him face to face.
- The vail spoken of in 2 Cor 3 is the Law he brought and specifically the 10 Commandments.
- The Law of Christ is found in Gal 6:1-2, and by extension 3-10. A good back up reference is Matt 6:14-15.
- The commandments of Christ are found in 1 John 3:22.

We have a different approach to Scripture. I do try to broaden my horizons, but as I explained, mine is a mathematical and military approach, as in a Operation's Order and plan of both tactics and strategy. As you may know, the military art is based on a science of doctrine to be trained in and executed in war, which is guided by a battle plan, and then usually falls apart on the battlefield, and individual initiative, clear command, and training has to take over by instinct.

What I see with God is the perfect mathematician, tactician, and strategist, who puts into place a perfect plan, and mankind physically messes it up, never really getting the spirit of it, except with individuals from time to time. The difference between the Old Testament of the mount and the New testament of Christ, is that the entirety of that Testament depended upon mankind's faith and obedience, that of a specific physical seed of Abraham, to keep it in place and continuing. That battle plan for a nation depended on the citizens to entirely obey.


They failed twice: first at the mount itself, when they drew back (Ex 20:18) and retreated by fear from the Lord in Person on the mount, and then by complete and open rebellion from jealousy, they crucified the Lord in Person on the cross. Therefore, I see a perfect plan with a beautiful vision for the earth completely scrapped in all its' strategy and tactics. I.e. a good covenant, intended to be everlasting (Psalms 105:10), abolished with all it's law and priesthood, as well as it's prophecies as pertaining to a physical seed of any kind.

Moses refused the offer of new father to an entirely new physical seed with which to operate. Therefore, there will no more be any physical seed relied upon by God again: which includes the prophesied physical seed of Abraham in a millennial kingdom of David on earth, which was written and promised under a law of Covenant that has been done away with forever. I see any entire nation and army raised up by the Lord Himself and disavowed forever as a special physical seed to Himself. They killed the Promisor and Testator: promise and Testament finished in all details pertaining to the physical seed.

The Covenant of Christ is a better covenant than the Old, because it is ensured forever by the very oath of God Himself with Father and Son as One in agreement and practice, which is impossible to disannul and bring to an end (Heb 6:18). Only in the individual is that Covenant kept or broken, but even as the Gospel of the Lamb everlasting, so is the Covenant. (Rev 14:6)(Heb 13:20)

I see the raising up of the tribes of Israel after the flesh was a military operation of God Himself to build an entire nation to be above, superior to, and dominant over all the earth (Ex 19:3-5). I.e. The Lord's plan was a truly world-ruling nation from the lands of Lebanon of His peculiar treasure of special people of faith: the citizenship of the commonwealth of Israel, an holy nation and priesthood to God. He showed them that by believing and obeying Him He could deliver them as slaves from the most powerful empire on the earth: He brought the Egyptians to their knees by first bringing the Israelites to their knees. How much more would there Lord do with a standing army bound to Him by Personal covenant, law, and priesthood, forged in the wilderness where no man could long survive and only hope to travel through. All it took was national faith and obedience to Him Personally.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But even then God tells us Gentiles not to be puffed up,

1. I am not a Gentile. I am in the seed of promise, a citizen of the commonwealth of Israel. God's Israel, not man's. If you want to conform to the names of a covenant that has vanished away, then so be it. But that is where 'Gentiles' became named, and it meant separated from God. Strangers. Outcasts.

There is no such thing as a 'Gentile' church of Christ, or 'Gentile' Christians. It is a contradiction of names and terms.

Thats funny Because in Rom 11. Paul Seperated Gentile believers from Jewish believers. (natural vs unnatural branches) He even told Gentile believers not to be ignorant of the mystery lest we be wise in our own opinion, that when the fulness of the gentiles is complete. ALL isreal will be saved.

THEY are loved because of th eelection. But Hated because of the gospel (because they hold to a false gospel at this time)
You right. there is no gentile church. The church has no jew or greek. not male or female etc etc.. But there are Gentile believers.

Your not a jew either because of the same point. Not jew or gentile

But paul made it clear. there are gentile christians (unnatural) vs jewish christian (Natural) proves that in the grand scheme of things. there is a context of when they are seperate.

Also. As paul said. the gifts of God are irrevocable. The abrahamic covenant still stands. God did not revoke it,.

And there is no church of Christ 'age', even as there is no ending of His everlasting Gospel (Rev 14:6, which will be preached to all the physical seed on the earth from mid heaven, and in the Lamb's own body for everlasting (Rev 5:6.22:1), even as Paul preached it in the marks of His own body. (Gal 6:17)

Your right. Its called the age, or dispensation of grace.

Ephesians 3:2
if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you,
dispensation - gk oikonomia - the administration of.

as we are not under administration of the law anymore. Jesus did away with this

2. We as the seed of promise are not to be puffed up against unbelievers, because they can become believers. The physical seed is beloved of God for the fathers' sake (Rom 11:23), meaning they can be grafted back in again, for the sake of the fathers. Not because the physical seed in itself is anything to God, nor beloved above any other physical seed.

You missed the point. Prophecy states at a time in the future. the physical seed will repent. And when they do. they will be saved. And it is not just some of the physical seed. It is ALL of the physical seed.

Paul tells us when that will be. when the time of the3 gentile (gentile dominion which started with Babylon) is completed. Scritpure tells us when this will be also. the return of Christ.

Jesus came to fulfill the promise of Abraham and the covenant of God to make the physical seed of Abraham above all people of the earth (Ex 19). That physical seed drew back from Him upon the mount (Ex 19), and then finally crucified Him on the cross. No more promise nor covenant for them. Ever. Except as individuals on earth that abide not in unbelief.

God said the specific covenant with the one child and all his descendants is an eternal covenant. God keeps his promises. Thats why Paul said the gifts are irrevocable.

God called them out. He told them in lev 26 what would happen if they sinned (see assyria/Israel and babylon/judah - rome/jodah) for prove God fulfilled what he said he would do.

But the same promise in lev 26 says if they repent. God will remember the promise and the land.

It is not over. Because it is eternal.

It is also not the Slavic aspect. I am part of all the nations being blessed. Not the part of I give you and your descendants this land as an eternal gift)

God will never turn to a physical see in particular to fulfill a promise over other inhabitors of the earth. He did that once and for all, the last time, with His Son Jesus, and they crucified Him for it. You really think the physical seed that did that endures with God? Was God the Son dying on the cross just a blip in the history of the physical seed and prophecies pertaining to them?

ez 37: 25 Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. 26 Moreover I will c]">[c]make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 28 The nations also will know that I, the Lord, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.” ’ ”

The nations will know!

Ez 36:
22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord,” says the Lord God, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God. 29 I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. I will call for the grain and multiply it, and bring no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of your trees and the increase of your fields, so that you need never again bear the reproach of famine among the nations. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good; and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight, for your iniquities and your abominations. 32 Not for your sake do I do this,” says the Lord God, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel!”

33 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will also enable you to dwell in the cities, and the ruins shall be rebuilt. 34 The desolate land shall be tilled instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass by. 35 So they will say, ‘This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden; and the wasted, desolate, and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.’ 36 Then the nations which are left all around you shall know that I, the Lord, have rebuilt the ruined places and planted what was desolate. I, the Lord, have spoken it, and I will do it.”

There are many more.

Its not for the sake of Israel. Its for Gods name sake. God made the promise. And God will be glorified when Israel repents. and is restored. and lives in their land again

Going to split this into two responses as it is long

 

[Eternally Grateful]

there will be a day when all Israel will be saved, as prophesied, as Jesus said

there is now a day when all Israel is saved, as prophesied, as Jesus did and still does.

I am a citizen of the Israel of God, as are all believers in Christ. If you do not want to be called a citizen of Israel, and prefer the name of Gentile, then that is your choice. It's not Scripture. Doesn't make you unsaved. Only misconcepted about such things.

Israel is Israel.

You are NOT part of Israel. You were never promised land.

when the abomination of desolation occurs,

That abomination that destroys God's good work began from the beginning, even as Lucifer rebelled in creation, the serpent slipped into the garden, Cain slew Abel, and the son of the bondwoman persecuted Isaac. As soon as God does anything good, the devil is right there to defile, deceive, and destroy.

And so have the wolves, antichrists, false apostles, and false christs, since Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Ghost to His believers. They were there in the days of the apostles, and they are here today, and until the resurrection, they shall keep coming.

An abomination of desolation (hebrew) is an abomidable thing which is placed into a Most Holy Site. rendering the holy site unclean.

Antiochus epiphanies did this by slaughtering a pic in the most holy place
The man of sin will do this by placing some idol in the holy place which can be seen (when you SEE the abomination of desolation STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE....

we should interpret prophecy literally. God gives it for that reason. To PROVE he is God to all who see

we will have great tribulation in the time of Jacobs trouble

Dittoes here as well: "We must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God." (Acts 14) Even as the best gift is the one we nedd most at the time, so is the greatest tribulation the one we have most at the moment.

Jacob's trouble is our trouble, for we are the seed of Abraham as Isaac and Jacob. That physical seed is no longer that of Sarah, but of Hagar, by their own doing. They are no more Jacob after killing the Lord from the mount, than they are Isaac whom Ishmael persecuted. They have no more birthright to promise of God than Esau, who sold it for a morsel of bread, and thy sold it for a nation of their own among other nations without God. (John 11:48) It is now their physical nation that they wanted, not God's:

Jer 30: 7 Alas! For that day is great, So that none is like it; And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble, But he shall be saved out of it. 8 ‘For it shall come to pass in that day,’ Says the Lord of hosts, ‘That I will break his yoke from your neck, And will burst your bonds; Foreigners shall no more enslave them. 9 But they shall serve the Lord their God,

This is a literal event. Which will happen on earth in a day appointed By God

Israel will be saved from this tribulation. And in the end they will be freed from the bonds of slavery and returned to their land and again serve the Lord.

"Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel; Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation." (Ex 19)

The house of Jacob and the children of Israel that obey His voice indeed are His peculiar treasure upon the earth:

"And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people."(1 Peter 2)

The physical seed of Abraham and Rahab who reject His voice and Son are not. Not now. Not ever.

The seed will be saved. It is promised.

If you study, I am sure you will see it.

Again. Take prophecy literally. God is telling us what WILL happen. Not what might happen (unless he puts a condition on it)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Please explain to me your statement... law of Moses vs law of Christ. What is the law of Moses and what is the law of Christ?

to me

the law of moses is the law of commands, traiditions and ceremonies given to moses for the children of Isreal

The law of Christ is the law of Love. The 2 commands. In these two commands are all the law and prophets.

the law of moses leads us to christ

the law of Christ then shows us HOW to live moral lives through the power of God(we love because he first loved us)

 

[Brakelite]

the entirety of that Testament depended upon mankind's faith and obedience, that of a specific physical seed of Abraham, to keep it in place and continuing. That battle plan for a nation depended on the citizens to entirely obey.

First, the gospel is everlasting (Revelation 14:6). In other words, the grace, mercy, and life offered to Adam and Eve after the fall is the same as offered to us. The gospel as revealed to Israel is essentially the same as offered to the church. The only difference is that in the sacrifices of the OT which prefigured Christ, which the patriarchs looked forward to, is now realized in Christ, which we now look to as our High Priest now mediating on our behalf before His Father in the heavenly sanctuary.
Israel did mess up. But not because they failed to obey, we've all done that. As Paul said in Romans, they went about to establish their own righteousness rather than the righteousness of God. What they failed to do was believe. But what God was hoping to accomplish in Israel is no different than what He hopes to accomplish in us. Righteousness by faith. The just shall live by faith, the integral component of the gospel, is common to both testaments. But the righteousness we are to aspire to... The righteousness which we are to hunger and thirst for, is God's righteousness, as revealed in His laws, which are a written transcript of His character. The Ten commandments are the perfect written revelation of the righteousness of God. They have not been done away with.
The scripture you and others are so fond of quoting, in defense of you theory that the laws of God are no longer applicable to NT believers, that being...
KJV 2 Corinthians 3:7-9
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
Does not say what you want it to say. It does not say the law has been done away. What it does say is, the ministration of death has been done away, as well as the glory that shone from the face of Moses. The ministration... That is the means by which righteousness was applied and established. It's still by faith. But no longer is it by law. The law stands, but the grace and power of God is now ministered through the indwelling Spirit of God... Christ within. No longer do we have the services and the feast days and the Levitical priesthood and the sacrifices etc. We have Christ, the embodiment and personification and the fulfillment of the laws pertaining to the sanctuary.
The moral law however is still God's standard of righteousness. And God's purpose remains the same. Our obedience. What the main change between old and new testament is not the law, but the means by which the law is impressed upon us.
Oh and one more thing. The ten commandments, the moral law that James calls the royal law, the one Paul calls good and holy, yeah, that law which was spoken by Jesus from Sinai, therefore the law of Christ, has ten commandments. Not nine.