COVENANTS

[charity]

charity said: ↑
That no flesh should glory in His presence.
.. But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus,
.... Who of God is made unto us
...... wisdom, and
........ righteousness, and
.......... sanctification, and
............ redemption:
That, according as it is written,
.. He that glorieth,
.... let Him glory in the Lord.'
(1Cor. 1:29-30)

Hello there, @Robert Gwin,

This is obviously written to the believers at Corinth, so that is not what you can be referring to. Within the immediate context, the reading of 1 Corinthians 1:18-30 in which Paul contrasts the wisdom of God with that of man. Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain your question, and tell me what you believe to be the significance of this passage.

Robert Gwin said:-
Actually it is what I am referring to, particularly to the anointed ones, those who were called to be holy ones/saints. Those are the ones who are "in" Jesus maam. Most of us are not those who have been called to be Kings and Priests in the Kingdom of God.

We are all under the same requirements, but the vast majority of us are judged on what we do to assist those who are "in Christ" with their assignment. Matt 25:40

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hello @Robert Gwin,

Thank you for responding, and with such a gentle spirit.

I believe that every believer is 'set apart' unto God, and referred to as a 'saint'. Also, that every believer is placed 'in Christ' by God, as 1 Corinthians 1:30-31 assures us. I agree that the call to be Kings and Priests in the Kingdom of God is not for all: but that it was the portion of the believing remnant of Israel during the Acts period; and will be the portion of redeemed Israel during the Millennial reign. Matthew 25:41 to which you refer is addressed to the nations who are judged at the end of the age (sheep and goats): judged for the way in which they have dealt with those of the Lord's kinsmen who have been redeemed and are fulfilling their divinely appointed role as Priests unto God among the nations.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[ReChoired]

I did warn you sir, if you continue to make accusations about my faith, we have nothing to talk about. Unless you have a serious question, I will no longer respond to your posts. I will read them, and if there is a legitimate point I can clear up for you I will not respond.

What was the shape of the instrument by which Jesus was Crucified by the Romans?, in other words, was it in the shape of the T[au], t[ee], the 'x', 'y', or was it merely an single upright stake/pole/pallisade, or something else? Scripture tells us:

We can know for certain that the Scriptures point us to Christ Jesus, for it is written:

Psalms 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.​

John 5:39 - Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Luke 24:27 - And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

John 1:45 - Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Acts 28:23 - And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

Acts 3:18 - But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.​

Let us notice that Acts 3:18, speaks that “all of his [God's] prophets” foretold that “Christ should suffer”. This means we ought to be able to go to the Old Testament to see if it speaks of this suffering, and manner by which Jesus would die. We shall then also consider the New Testament texts, which are built upon the foundation of the Old Testament texts.

"According to scripture, they teach that Jesus died upon the Cross/Tree "t" (John 1:45, 5:39; Luke 24:27; Acts 3:18, 28:23; Deuteronomy 21:22-23; Galatians 3:13; Acts 5:30, 10:39; 1 Peter 2:24; Psalms 88:9; Romans 10:21; Matthew 27:38; Psalms 22:12-18; Matthew 27:37; John 20:25; Psalms 103:10-12; Zechariah 13:6; John 15:1,5; Hebrews 9:23 (Altar of burnt offering, Bronze Laver, Table of the Bread of the Presence, 7 Branch Lampstand, Altar of Incense, Ark of the Covenant); Acts 7:44; Exodus 26:30; Exodus 25:9,40; Numbers 8:4; 1 Chronicles 28:19; Ephesians 1:20; Hebrews 8:1-5, 9:11,24; Isaiah 28:16-17; Exodus 17:9-13; Judges 16; 2 Samuel 18:9-10,14; Isaiah 33:23,27:7; Numbers 21:8-9; John 3:14; and the very name of JEHOVAH itself, "יהוה", shows it, even as the "Aleph-Tav" shows it, see also Ezekiel 9:4; Exodus 12:7; Psalms 20:5, 60:4; Song of Solomon 2:4, 6:4,10; Numbers 1:51, 2:2,3,10,18,25; Isaiah 59:19, etc)."​

Isaiah 28:16,17.

Isaiah 28:16 - Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner [stone], a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Isaiah 28:17 - Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.​

Can any not see Christ Jesus in vs 16 [compare to Romans 9:33; 1 Corinthians 3:11; Ephesians 2:20; 1 Peter 2:8, etc], but what more in vs 17!

Judgment also will I lay to the line... What is a line?, it is a measuring tool upon the horizontal... as far as the east is from the west; eternal in either direction, relationship of man to man, straight

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and righteousness to the plummet... What is a plummet?, it is a measuring tool upon the vertical, binding Heaven and earth together [Genesis 1:1, vav, aleph, tav]; from highest to lowest, relationship of man to God, straight

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And both together...

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The Justice/Judgment and Righteousness of God, the very Love of God, meet there, forever demonstrated before all the universe... the truest standard of measurement, the perfect 'meter' - God love, God is love....

In fact, the Cross, is a Throne, high and lifted up (see Genesis 1:1, the Aleph Tav (Alpha and Omega) between Heaven and Earth, nailed there by vav). Jesus is Crowned King of the Jews. He has them which are on his right and left. Embracing all the world below Him.

You admitted that the WTS makes mistakes. Will they correct this one? or no? Will you, Robert, personally make the correction in your own life even if they do not?

 

[Robert Gwin]

[1] Do you know why it requires Deity (God) taking upon Himself the nature of mankind to be saved from sin?

[2] Do you know why no created being (no matter how ancient or exalted) could ever 'pay' for the sins of mankind?

[3] Do you know what the Bible says about creation (created beings) in relation to the Creator that makes it impossible for a created being to be the Saviour of the race of mankind?

Adam was not equal to God sir. A corresponding ransom was needed, a perfect human to buy back what a perfect human lost. Hence God sending His son.
(1 Timothy 2:5, 6) . . .For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time.
(Galatians 4:4, 5) . . .when the full limit of the time arrived, God sent his Son, who was born of a woman and who was under law, 5 that he might release by purchase those under law, so that we might receive the adoption as sons.

 

[Robert Gwin]

What was the shape of the instrument by which Jesus was Crucified by the Romans?, in other words, was it in the shape of the T[au], t[ee], the 'x', 'y', or was it merely an single upright stake/pole/pallisade, or something else? Scripture tells us:

We can know for certain that the Scriptures point us to Christ Jesus, for it is written:

Psalms 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.​

John 5:39 - Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Luke 24:27 - And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

John 1:45 - Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Acts 28:23 - And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

Acts 3:18 - But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.​

Let us notice that Acts 3:18, speaks that “all of his [God's] prophets” foretold that “Christ should suffer”. This means we ought to be able to go to the Old Testament to see if it speaks of this suffering, and manner by which Jesus would die. We shall then also consider the New Testament texts, which are built upon the foundation of the Old Testament texts.

"According to scripture, they teach that Jesus died upon the Cross/Tree "t" (John 1:45, 5:39; Luke 24:27; Acts 3:18, 28:23; Deuteronomy 21:22-23; Galatians 3:13; Acts 5:30, 10:39; 1 Peter 2:24; Psalms 88:9; Romans 10:21; Matthew 27:38; Psalms 22:12-18; Matthew 27:37; John 20:25; Psalms 103:10-12; Zechariah 13:6; John 15:1,5; Hebrews 9:23 (Altar of burnt offering, Bronze Laver, Table of the Bread of the Presence, 7 Branch Lampstand, Altar of Incense, Ark of the Covenant); Acts 7:44; Exodus 26:30; Exodus 25:9,40; Numbers 8:4; 1 Chronicles 28:19; Ephesians 1:20; Hebrews 8:1-5, 9:11,24; Isaiah 28:16-17; Exodus 17:9-13; Judges 16; 2 Samuel 18:9-10,14; Isaiah 33:23,27:7; Numbers 21:8-9; John 3:14; and the very name of JEHOVAH itself, "יהוה", shows it, even as the "Aleph-Tav" shows it, see also Ezekiel 9:4; Exodus 12:7; Psalms 20:5, 60:4; Song of Solomon 2:4, 6:4,10; Numbers 1:51, 2:2,3,10,18,25; Isaiah 59:19, etc)."​

Psa 77:13 Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?​

You see, JEHOVAH actually left us a 'picture', worth more than all the words of fallible men of the WTS:

View attachment 16141

View attachment 16142

View attachment 16143

View attachment 16144

View attachment 16145

The very places of the Sanctuary itself, demonstrate the pattern of Jesus suffering and sacrifice.

Beginning at the outer court, we have the Altar of Burnt Offering. Moving from there, we come to the Laver of Blood/Water. From thence in the outer court, we move through the veil into the Holy Place of the Sanctuary, and immediately to our right hand is the Table of Shew Bread, and to our left is then the 7 Branch Golden Candlestick, and ahead of us is the Altar of Incense. Moving past these, through the second veil, into the Most Holy Place, we come to the Ark of the Covenant and the Law of God therein. These are in the Pattern of the Cross itself.

In each place, Christ Jesus received a wound.

[1] Altar of Burnt Offering – Jesus was pierced in the Feet, by a nail.
[2] Laver of Blood Water – Jesus was pierced in His Side, by a spear, out then came blood and water.
[3] Table of Shew Bread – Jesus was pierced in the Right Hand, by a nail.
[4] 7 Branch Golden Candlestick – Jesus was pierced in the Left Hand, by a nail.
[5] Altar of Incense – Jesus died of a Broken Heart, wounded by the sin/s of mankind.
[6] Ark of the Covenant – Jesus was pierced in the Head, by the Crown of Thorns He wore.
​

You admitted that the WTS makes mistakes. Will they correct this one? or no? Will you, Robert, personally make the correction in your own life even if they do not?

The Bible does not give the shape of the execution instrument of Jesus' death sir. It simply states he died on a stauros and also states xylon. Stauros is defined as an upright pole, and xylon is translated tree. Jehovah's witnesses believe that Jesus was nailed to an upright pole, which is most efficient in the mode of death. All physical fitness people realize that it is easier to breathe with arms extended outright, whereas very difficult if hanging by arms overhead. The simple truth is that no one knows exactly what the form of the stauros was. Anything submitted on it is simply opinion.

 

[ReChoired]

The Bible does not give the shape of the execution instrument of Jesus' death sir. It simply states he died on a stauros and also states xylon. Stauros is defined as an upright pole, and xylon is translated tree. ...

Scripture does give us the picture Robert. I have showed 2 examples now, and now a third, I will even use the WTS/JW imagery to show you:

What was the shape of the instrument by which Jesus was Crucified by the Romans?, in other words, was it in the shape of the T[au], t[ee], the 'x', 'y', or was it merely an single upright stake/pole/pallisade, or something else? Scripture tells us:

We can know for certain that the Scriptures point us to Christ Jesus, for it is written:

Psalms 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.​

John 5:39 - Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Luke 24:27 - And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

John 1:45 - Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Acts 28:23 - And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

Acts 3:18 - But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.​

Let us notice that Acts 3:18, speaks that “all of his [God's] prophets” foretold that “Christ should suffer”. This means we ought to be able to go to the Old Testament to see if it speaks of this suffering, and manner by which Jesus would die. We shall then also consider the New Testament texts, which are built upon the foundation of the Old Testament texts.

"According to scripture, they teach that Jesus died upon the Cross/Tree "t" (John 1:45, 5:39; Luke 24:27; Acts 3:18, 28:23; Deuteronomy 21:22-23; Galatians 3:13; Acts 5:30, 10:39; 1 Peter 2:24; Psalms 88:9; Romans 10:21; Matthew 27:38; Psalms 22:12-18; Matthew 27:37; John 20:25; Psalms 103:10-12; Zechariah 13:6; John 15:1,5; Hebrews 9:23 (Altar of burnt offering, Bronze Laver, Table of the Bread of the Presence, 7 Branch Lampstand, Altar of Incense, Ark of the Covenant); Acts 7:44; Exodus 26:30; Exodus 25:9,40; Numbers 8:4; 1 Chronicles 28:19; Ephesians 1:20; Hebrews 8:1-5, 9:11,24; Isaiah 28:16-17; Exodus 17:9-13; Judges 16; 2 Samuel 18:9-10,14; Isaiah 33:23,27:7; Numbers 21:8-9; John 3:14; and the very name of JEHOVAH itself, "יהוה", shows it, even as the "Aleph-Tav" shows it, see also Ezekiel 9:4; Exodus 12:7; Psalms 20:5, 60:4; Song of Solomon 2:4, 6:4,10; Numbers 1:51, 2:2,3,10,18,25; Isaiah 59:19, etc)."​

[1] Moses and Joshua, Aaron and Hur; Exodus 17.

Exodus 17:9 - And Moses said unto Joshua, Choose us out men, and go out, fight with Amalek: to morrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in mine hand.

Exodus 17:10 - So Joshua did as Moses had said to him, and fought with Amalek: and Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill.

Exodus 17:11 - And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed.

Exodus 17:12 - But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun.

Exodus 17:13 - And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword.​

[A.] Moses, representing Jesus as deliverer, goes atop a hill, where all may see him [Exodus 17:9].

Jesus was taken to the hill of the Skull, Golgotha [Mark 15:22; John 19:17], Calvary [place of the skull; Luke 23:33] where all may see him [Isaiah 45:22; John 12:32].​

[B.] Moses, representing Jesus as deliverer, has two persons beside him, one on the Right, the other on the Left [Exodus 17:12].

Jesus, was crucified between two persons, one of the Right hand, the other on the left [Matthew 27:38; Mark 15:27; Luke 23:33; John 19:18].​

[C.] Moses, representing Jesus as deliverer, was victorious for his people, so long as his hands remained outstretched and steady, until the going down of the sun [Exodus 17:12].

Jesus, whose arms and hands were each outstretched, with a “nail” [“as a nail in a sure place”; Isaiah 22:23,25] in each hand, whose “bones were out of joint”, even “as far as the east is from the west”, that they could not move, were steady, yes even till the going down of the sun [the “ninth hour”; approx 3 PM] on the preparation day, just before the 7th Day Sabbath of the Lord God and feast sabbath began together, his victory assured, memorialized forever. Just as Joshua was victorious, this Joshua was too, over the real enemies of God, delivering the people with “mighty hand” and “outstretched arm”.​

Such a great sacrifice that God has made, for us, to deliver us from the power of sin, satan and self.

Now, a picture of that typology from the WTS/JW org, ready?

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/mp/r1/lp-e/ws16/2016/598

Did you see it Robert?

Others see it? Can you?

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.XQTuN_JiUUwx5lAzrkM1hQHaHn&pid=Api&f=1

You admitted that the WTS makes mistakes. Will they correct this one? or no? Will you, Robert, personally make the correction in your own life even if they do not?

 

[ReChoired]

The Bible does not give the shape of the execution instrument of Jesus' death sir. It simply states he died on a stauros and also states xylon. Stauros is defined as an upright pole, and xylon is translated tree. ...

No Robert, have you considered how God defined a "tree" in scripture? Trees all have "branches" that come off of the main stock Robert.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https://i.pinimg.com/originals/32/62/e2/3262e22907f106f301cc1dfee006e289.png&f=1&nofb=1

Want to see from scripture Robert?

Deuteronomy 21:22 - And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:

Deuteronomy 21:23 - His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.​

The Hebrew word for “tree” in Deuteronomy 21:22,23, is [Hebrew: H6086] “עֵץ” [transliterated] “ëtz”, meaning “[1] tree, wood, timber, stock, plank, stalk, stick, gallows; [A.] tree, trees; [B.] wood, pieces of wood, gallows, firewood, cedar-wood, woody flax” [Strong's Concordance] which comes from the root word [Hebrew: H6095] “עצה”, [transliterated] “`atsah”, meaning “shut”. The KJB translates Strong's H6086 in the following manner, taken from E-Sword KJC [King James Concordance]:

“Total KJB Occurrences: 334:

wood, 107:

Gen 6:14, Gen 22:3, Gen 22:6-7 (2), Gen 22:9 (2), Exo 7:19, Exo 25:5, Exo 25:10, Exo 25:13, Exo 25:23, Exo 25:28, Exo 26:15, Exo 26:26, Exo 27:1, Exo 27:6, Exo 30:1, Exo 30:5, Exo 35:7, Exo 35:24, Exo 35:33, Exo 36:20, Exo 36:31, Exo 37:1, Exo 37:4, Exo 37:10, Exo 37:15, Exo 37:25, Exo 37:28, Exo 38:1, Lev 1:6-8 (3), Lev 1:12, Lev 1:17, Lev 3:5, Lev 6:12 (2), Lev 11:32, Lev 14:4, Lev 14:6, Lev 14:49, Lev 14:51-52 (2), Lev 15:12, Num 13:20, Num 19:6, Num 31:20, Num 35:18, Deu 4:28, Deu 10:1, Deu 10:3, Deu 19:5, Deu 28:36, Deu 28:64, Deu 29:11, Deu 29:17, Jos 9:21, Jos 9:23, Jos 9:27, Jdg 6:26, 1Sa 6:14, 2Sa 6:5, 2Sa 24:22, 1Ki 6:15, 1Ki 18:23 (2), 1Ki 18:33 (3), 1Ki 18:38, 2Ki 6:4, 2Ki 19:18, 1Ch 21:23, 1Ch 22:4, 1Ch 29:2 (2), 2Ch 2:16, Neh 8:4, Neh 10:34, Neh 13:31, Job 41:27, Pro 26:20-21 (2), Son 3:9 (2), Isa 10:15, Isa 30:33, Isa 45:19-20 (2), Isa 60:17, Jer 5:14, Jer 7:18, Jer 28:13, Jer 46:22, Lam 5:4, Lam 5:13, Eze 15:3, Eze 20:32, Eze 39:10 (2), Eze 41:16, Eze 41:22 (2), Hab 2:19, Hag 1:8, Zec 12:6​

tree, 88

Gen 1:11-12 (2), Gen 1:29 (2), Gen 2:9 (3), Gen 2:16-17 (2), Gen 3:1, Gen 3:3, Gen 3:6 (2), Gen 3:11-12 (2), Gen 3:17, Gen 3:22, Gen 3:24, Gen 18:4, Gen 18:8, Gen 40:19, Exo 9:25, Exo 10:5, Exo 15:25, Lev 27:30, Deu 12:2, Deu 19:5, Deu 20:19, Deu 21:22-23 (2), Deu 22:6, Jos 8:29 (2), Jdg 9:10-11 (2), 1Ki 4:33, 1Ki 6:23, 1Ki 6:31-34 (4), 1Ki 14:23, 2Ki 3:19, 2Ki 16:4, 2Ki 17:10, 2Ch 3:5, 2Ch 28:4, Est 2:23, Job 14:7, Job 19:10, Job 24:20, Psa 1:3, Pro 3:18, Pro 11:30, Pro 13:12, Pro 15:4, Son 2:3 (3), Isa 40:20, Isa 44:19 (2), Isa 44:23, Isa 56:3, Isa 57:5, Isa 65:22, Jer 2:20, Jer 3:6, Jer 3:13, Jer 10:3, Jer 11:19, Jer 17:8, Eze 6:13, Eze 15:2 (2), Eze 15:6, Eze 17:24 (4), Eze 20:47 (2), Eze 21:10, Eze 31:8, Eze 34:27, Eze 36:30, Joe 2:22, Hag 2:19​

trees, 79

Gen 3:2, Gen 3:8, Gen 23:17, Exo 10:15 (2), Lev 19:23, Lev 23:40 (2), Lev 26:4, Deu 16:20-21 (2), Deu 20:19-20 (3), Deu 28:42, Jos 10:26-27 (3), Jdg 9:8-15 (8), Jdg 9:48, 2Sa 5:11, 1Ki 4:33, 1Ki 10:10-12 (7), 2Ki 3:25, 1Ch 16:33, 1Ch 22:4, 2Ch 9:10-11 (2), Ezr 3:7, Neh 8:15, Neh 9:25, Neh 10:35, Neh 10:37, Psa 74:5, Psa 96:12, Psa 104:16, Psa 105:33, Psa 148:9, Ecc 2:5-6 (2), Son 2:3, Son 4:14, Isa 7:2, Isa 10:19, Isa 44:14, Isa 55:12, Jer 7:20, Eze 15:2 (2), Eze 15:6, Eze 17:24, Eze 20:28, Eze 31:4-5 (2), Eze 31:8-9 (3), Eze 31:14-16 (3), Eze 31:18 (2), Eze 47:7, Joe 1:12 (2), Joe 1:19​

timber, 23

Exo 31:5, Lev 14:45, 1Ki 5:6, 1Ki 5:8 (2), 1Ki 5:18, 1Ki 6:10, 1Ki 15:22, 2Ki 12:12, 2Ki 22:6, 1Ch 14:1, 1Ch 22:14-15 (2), 2Ch 2:8-10 (3), 2Ch 2:14, 2Ch 16:6, 2Ch 34:11, Neh 2:8, Eze 26:12, Hab 2:11, Zec 5:4​

stick, 9

2Ki 6:6, Lam 4:8, Eze 37:16-17 (4), Eze 37:19 (3)​

gallows, 8

Est 5:14 (2), Est 6:4, Est 7:9-10 (2), Est 8:7, Est 9:13, Est 9:25​

sticks, 5

Num 15:32-33 (2), 1Ki 17:10, 1Ki 17:12, Eze 37:20​

carpenters, 3

2Ki 12:11 (2), 1Ch 14:1​

staff, 3

2Sa 21:19, 2Sa 23:7, 1Ch 20:5​

stock, 2

Jer 2:27, Jer 10:8​

stocks, 2

Jer 3:8-9 (2), Hos 4:12​

carpenter, 1

Isa 44:12-13 (2)​

helve, 1

Deu 19:5​

pine, 1

Neh 8:15​

planks, 1

Eze 41:25​

stalks, 1

Jos 2:6”​

 

[ReChoired]

The Bible does not give the shape of the execution instrument of Jesus' death sir. It simply states he died on a stauros and also states xylon. Stauros is defined as an upright pole, and xylon is translated tree. ...

No Robert, have you considered how God defined a "tree" in scripture? Trees all have "branches" that come off of the main stock Robert. Want to see?
https://external-content.duckduckgo...62e22907f106f301cc1dfee006e289.png&f=1&nofb=1

Want to see from scripture Robert?
The “tree”, as a whole itself, is made up of “sticks” [Hebrew: H6086, same as the word “tree” in Deuteronomy 21:22,23], see Numbers 15:32,33:

Numbers 15:32 - And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

Numbers 15:33 - And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.​

These “sticks”, or the various parts of the whole “Tree”, in Scripture, are known as the:

[1] Root/s: [Deuteronomy 29:18; Judges 5:14; 1 Kings 14:15; 2 Kings 19:30; 2 Chronicles 7:20; Job 5:3, 8:17, 14:8, 18:16, 19:28, 28:9, 29:29, 30:4, 31:12; Psalms 52:5, 80:9; Proverbs 12:3,12; Isaiah 5:24, 11:1,10, 14:29,30, 27:6, 37:31, 40:24, 53:2; Jeremiah 1:10, 12:2, 17:8; Ezekiel 17:6,7,9, 31:7; Daniel 4:15,23,26, 7:6, 11:7; Hosea 9:16, 14:5; Amos 2:9; Malachi 4:1; Matthew 3:10, 13:6,21,29; Mark 4:6,17, 11:20; Luke 3:9, 8:13, 17:6; Romans 11:16,17,18, 15:12; 1 Timothy 6:10; Hebrews 12:15; Jude 1:12; Revelation 5:5, 22:16].

A “root” is that part of the “tree” which is generally “in the earth” [Daniel 4:15,23], and “beneath” [Job 18:16; Amos 2:9] or “under” [Ezekiel 17:6] the soil, or “spreadeth out … by the river” [Jeremiah 17:8], often “wrapped about the heap … the place of stones” [Job 8:17].

Any “tree” which was “cut down”, by “the axe” which is “laid unto the root of the trees” [Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9] or “plucked up by the roots” [Psalms 52:5; Daniel 7:8; Jude 1:12], it is “twice dead” [Jude 1:12], having no hope, it is even as the “second death” [Revelation 2:10, 20:6,14, 21:8].​

[2] Stock/s [Stump, Shoot, Shaft, Stalk/s, Stem]: [Genesis 41:5,22; Exodus 37:17; Leviticus 25:47; Joshua 2:6; 1 Samuel 5:4; Job 14:8; Isaiah 11:1, 40:24, 44:19; Jeremiah 2:27, 3:9, 10:8; Ezekiel 31:14; Daniel 4:15,23,26, Hosea 4:12, 8:7; Acts 13:26; Philippians 3:5].

As it is written, if a “tree” but cut down, yet not to the root, but to even to the Stump with roots left intact in the earth, it still has hope, “For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.” [Job 14:7].

King Nebuchadnezzar [II] of [Neo] Babylon, was “purge[d]” [pruned; John 15:2] in such a way [Daniel 4:15,23,26], and was delivered from destruction, and shall be in the Kingdom of Heaven [Daniel 4:1-3,36,37].​

[3] Branch/es [Bough/s, Rod/s]: [Genesis 30:37,38,39,41, 40:10,12, 49:22; Exodus 4:2,4,17,20, 7:9,10,12,15,17,29,20, 8:5,16,17, 9:23, 10:13, 14:16, 17:5,9, 21:20, 25:31,32,33,35,36, 37:17,18,19,21,22; Leviticus 23:40, 27:32; Numbers 13:23, 17:2,3,5,6,7,8,9,10, 20:8,9,11; Deuteronomy 24:20; Judges 9:48,49; 1 Samuel 14:27,43; 2 Samuel 7:14, 18:9; Nehemiah 8:15; Job 8:6, 9:34, 14:7,9, 15:30,32, 18:16, 21:9, 29:19; Psalms 2:9, 23:4, 74:2, 80:10,11,15, 89:32, 104:12, 110:2, 125:3; Proverbs 10:13, 11:28, 13:24, 14:3, 22:8,15, 23:13,14, 26:3, 29:15; Song of Songs [Solomon] 7:8; Isaiah 4:2, 9:4,14, 10:5,15,24,26,33, 11:1,4, 14:19,29, 16:8, 17:6,9, 18:5, 19:15, 25:5, 27:10,11, 28:27, 30:31, 60:21; Jeremiah 1:11, 10:16, 11:16, 23:5, 33:15, 48:17, 51:19; Lamentations 3:1; Ezekiel 7:10,11, 8:17, 15:2, 17:3,6,7,8,22,23, 19:10,11,12,14, 20:37, 21:10,13, 31:3,5,6,7,8,9,10,12,13,14, 36:8; Daniel 4:12,14,21, 11:7; Hosea 11:6, 14:6; Joel 1:7; Micah 5;1, 6:9, 7:14; Nahum 2:2; Zechariah 3:8, 4;12, 6:12; Malachi 4:1; Matthew 13:32, 21:8, 24:32; Mark 4:32, 11:8, 13:28; Luke 13:19; John 12:13, 15:2,4,5,6; Romans 11:16,17,18,19,21,24; 1 Corinthians 4:21; 2 Corinthians 11:25; Hebrews 9:4; Revelation 2:27, 11:1, 12:5, 19:15; see also “barked” [Joel 1:7]; see also “beam/s” [Genesis 19:8 [roof]; 1 Kings 6:6,9,36, 7:2,3,12; 2 Kings 6:2,5; 2 Chronicles 3:7; Nehemiah 2:8, 3:3,6; Psalms 104:3; Song of Songs [Solomon] 1:7]]

[4] Leaf/ves: [Genesis 3:7, 8:11; Leviticus 26:36; 1 King 6:34; Job 13:25; Psalms 1:3; Isaiah 1:30, 6:13, 34:4, 64:6; Jeremiah 8:13, 17:8, 36:23; Ezekiel 17:9, 41:24, 47:12; Daniel 4:12,14,21; Matthew 21:19, 24:32; Mark 11:13, 13:28; Revelation 22:2]

[5] Knop/s [Bud/s, ded]: [Genesis 40:10; Exodus 25:31,33,34,35,36, 37:17,19,20,21,22; Numbers 17:8; 1 Kings 6:18, 7:24; Job 14:9, 38:27; Psalms 132:17; Song of Songs [Solomon] 6:11, 7:12; Isaiah 18:5, 27:6, 55:10, 61:11; Ezekiel 7:10, 16:7, 29:21; Hosea 8:7; Hebrews 9:4; see also “lintel” [Amos 9:1; Zephaniah 2:14]]

[6] Flower/s [Blossom]: [Exodus 25:31,33,34, 37:17,19,20; Leviticus 15:24,33; Numbers 8:4, 17:5; 1 Samuel 2:33; 1 Kings 6:18,29,32,35, 7:26,49; 2 Chronicles 4:5,21; Song of Songs [Solomon] 2:12, 5:13; Job 14:2, 15:33; Psalms 103:15; Isaiah 5:24, 18:5, 27:6, 28:1,4, 35:1,2, 40:6,7,8; Nahum 1:4; Habakkuk 3:17; 1 Corinthians 7:36; James 1:10,11; 1 Peter 1:24]

[7] Fruit/s: [Genesis 1:11,12,29, 3:2,3,6, 4:3, 30:2, 43:11; Exodus 10:15, 21:22, 22:29, 23:10; Leviticus 19:23,24,25, 23:39, 25:3,15,,16,19,21,22, 26:4,20, 27:30; Numbers 13:20,26,27; Deuteronomy 1:25, 7:13, 11:17, 22:9, 26:2, 28:4,11,18,33,40,42,51,53, 30:9, 33:14; Joshua 5:12; Judges 9:11; 2 Samuel 9:10, 16:1,2; 2 Kings 8:6, 19:19,29,30; Nehemiah 9:25,36, 10:35,37; Job 31:39; Psalms 1:3, 21:10, 72:16, 92:14, 104:13, 105:35, 107:37, 127:3, 132:11; Proverbs 1:31, 8:19, 10:16, 11:30, 12:12,14, 13:2, 18:20,21, 27:18, 31:16,31; Ecclesiastes 2:5; Song of Songs [Solomon] 2:3, 4:13,16, 6:11, 7:13, 8:11,12; Isaiah 3:10, 4:2, 10:12, 13:18, 14:29, 16:9, 27:6,9, 28:4, 33:9, 37:30,31, 40:10,12, 48:32, 57:19, 65:21; Jeremiah 2:7, 6:19, 7:20, 11:16,19, 12:2, 17:8,10, 21:14, 29:5,28, 32:19; Lamentations 2:20, 4:9; Ezekiel 17:8,9,23, 19:12,14, 25:4, 34:27, 36:8,11,30, 47:12; Daniel 4:12,14,21; Hosea 9:16, 10:1,13, 14:8; Joel 2:22; Amos 2:9, 6:12, 7:14, 8:1,2, 9:14; Micah 6:7, 7:1,13; Habakkuk 3:17; Haggai 1:10; Zechariah 8:12; Malachi 1:12, 3:11; Matthew 3:8,10, 7:16,17,18,19,20, 12:33, 13:8,23,26, 21:19,34,41,43, 26:29; Mark 4:7,8,20,28,29, 11:14, 12:2, 14:25; Luke 1:42, 3:8,9, 6:43,44, 8:8,14,15, 12:17,18, 13:6,7,9, 20:10, 22:18; John 4:36, 12:24, 15:2,4,5,8,16; Acts 2:30; Romans 1:13, 6:21,22, 7:4,5, 15:28; 1 Corinthians 9:7; 2 Corinthians 9:10; Galatians 5:22; Ephesians 5:9; Philippians 1:11,22, 4:17; Colossians 1:6; 2 Timothy 2:6; Hebrews 12:11, 13:15; James 3:17,18, 5:7,18; Jude 1:12; Revelation 18:14, 22:2; see also “firstfruit/s” [Exodus 23:16,19, 34:22,26; Leviticus 2:12,14, 23:10,17,20; Numbers 18:12, 28:26; Deuteronomy 18:4, 26:10; 2 Kings 4:42; 2 Chronicles 31:5; Nehemiah 10:35,37, 12:44, 13:31; Proverbs 3:9; Jeremiah 2:3; Ezekiel 20:40, 44:30, 48:14; Romans 8:23, 11:16, 16:5; 1 Corinthians 15:20,23, 16:15; James 1:18; Revelation 14:4]]

[8] Seed/s: [Genesis 1:11,12,29, 3:15, 4:25, 7:3, 9:9, 12:7, 13:15,16, 15:3,5,13,18, 16:10, 17:7,8,9,10, 12,19, 19:32,34, 21:12,13, 22:17,18, 24:7,60, 26:3,4,24, 28:4,13,14, 32:12, 35:12, 38:8,9, 46:6,7, 47:19,23,24, 48:4,11,19; Exodus 16:31, 28:43, 30:21, 32:13, 33:1; Leviticus 11:37,38, 12:2, 15:16,17,18,32, 18:21, 19:19, 20:2,3,4, 21:15,17,21, 22:3,4, 26:16, 27:16,30; Numbers 5:28, 11:7, 14:24, 16:40, 18:19, 20:5, 24:7, 25:13; Deuteronomy 4:37, 10:15, 11:9,10, 14:22, 22:9, 28:38,46,59, 30:6,19, 31:21, 34:4; Joshua 24:3; Ruth 4:12; 1 Samuel 2:20, 8:15, 20:42, 24:21; 2 Samuel 4:8, 7:12, 22:51; 1 Kings 2:33, 11:14,39, 18:32; 2 Kings 5:27, 11:1, 17:20, 25:25; 1 Chronicles 16:13, 17:11; 2 Chronicles 20:7, 22:10; Ezra 2:59, 9:2; Nehemiah 7:61, 9:2,8; Esther 6:13, 9:27,28,31, 10:3; Job 5:25, 21:8, 39:12; Psalms 18:50, 21:10, 22:23,30, 25:13, 37:25,26,28, 69:36, 89:4,29,36, 102:28, 105:6, 106:27, 112:2, 126:6; Proverbs 11:21; Ecclesiastes 11:6; Isaiah 1:4, 5:10, 6:13, 14:20, 17:11, 23:3, 30:23, 41:8, 43:5, 44:3, 45:19,25, 48:19, 53:10, 54:3, 55:10, 57:3,4, 59:21, 61:9. 65:9,23, 66:22; Jeremiah 2:21, 7:15, 22:28,30, 23:8, 29:32, 30:10, 31:27,36,37, 33:22,26, 35:7,9, 36:31, 41:1, 46:27, 49:10; Ezekiel 17:5,13, 20:5, 43:19, 44:22; Daniel 1:3, 2:43, 9:1; Joel 1:17; Amos 9:13; Haggai 2:19; Zechariah 8:12; Malachi 2:3,15; Matthew 13:4,19,20,22,23,24,27,31,32,37,38, 17:20, 22:24; Mark 4:26,27,31, 12:19,20,21,22; Luke 1:55, 8:5,11, 13:19, 17:6, 20:28; John 7:42, 8:33,37; Acts 3:25, 7:5,6, 13:23; Romans 1:3, 4:13,16,18, 9:7,8,29, 11:1; 1 Corinthians 15:38; 2 Corinthians 9:10, 11:22; Galatians 3:16,19,29; 2 Timothy 2:8; Hebrews 2:16, 11:11,18; 1 Peter 1:23; 1 John 3:9; Revelation 12:17]​

 

[ReChoired]

The Bible does not give the shape of the execution instrument of Jesus' death sir. It simply states he died on a stauros and also states xylon. Stauros is defined as an upright pole, and xylon is translated tree. ...

No Robert, have you considered how God defined a "tree" in scripture? Trees all have "branches" that come off of the main stock Robert. Want to see?

https://external-content.duckduckgo...62e22907f106f301cc1dfee006e289.png&f=1&nofb=1

Want to see from scripture Robert?

Further, it is written, any “tree” can only bring forth after its “kind” [Genesis 1:11,12]:

Matthew 7:17 - Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Matthew 7:18 - A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Matthew 7:19 - Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Matthew 12:33 - Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Luke 6:43 - For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.​

Paul the Apostle, in the New Testament quotes Deuteronomy 21:22,23, in regards to the “tree” that Jesus was hung upon, when he writes:

Galatians 3:13 - Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:​

Peter does the same, recorded by Luke, in reference:

Acts 5:30 - The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

Acts 10:39 - And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

1 Peter 2:24 - Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.​

Other examples, of others in the Old Testament “hanged on a tree” are found in Genesis 40:19; Joshua 8:29; Esther 2:23.

Now, since it is written, in many places in Scripture, that any “tree”, including the “tree”, as Paul writes and cites, upon which Jesus was hung, is not simply made up of a “root/s”, nor a “stump”, nor a “seed/s”, nor a “flower/s”, nor a “fruit/s”, nor a “knop/s”, nor a “leaf/ves”, but incorporating them all, then so also includes, the “branches” which come off of the “stump” [trunk], and for the cross this is known commonly as the 'transverse' or 'transom' “patibulum”, which Jesus carried, further reading, may be done here, for the historical uses of it - Instrument of Jesus' crucifixion - Wikipedia .

Let us remember, that Jesus said, “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.” [John 5:39]

Jesus hands were “stretched out”, on this “tree”, even to the “right hand” and to the “left”:

Psalms 88:9 - Mine eye mourneth by reason of affliction: LORD, I have called daily upon thee, I have stretched out my hands unto thee.

Romans 10:21 - But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Matthew 27:38 - Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.​

For it is written of Jesus:

Psalms 22:12 - Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

Psalms 22:13 - They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

Psalms 22:14 - I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

Psalms 22:15 - My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

Psalms 22:16 - For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

Psalms 22:17 - I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

Psalms 22:18 - They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.​

And further:

Matthew 27:37 - And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.​

For Jesus “hands” were “pierced” by the “nails” [plural], one nail in the right hand, the other in the left, while the accusation, His title, above:

John 20:25 - The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.​

Jesus opened his arms wide, as “far as the east is from the west” in His love, to deliver and save:

Psalms 103:10 - He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.

Psalms 10:3:11 - For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

Psalms 103:12 - As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

For the Scriptures declare that He would deliver by His “mighty hand” and “out stretched arm”.​

The Scriptures declare that though there was the “tree of life” in the Garden of Eden on earth [Genesis 2:9, 3:22,24], but also seen in Heaven [Ezekiel 47:12; Revelation 2:7, 22:2,14].

You admitted that the WTS makes mistakes. Will they correct this one? or no? Will you, Robert, personally make the correction in your own life even if they do not?

 

[ReChoired]

Jehovah's witnesses believe that Jesus was nailed to an upright pole ...

What they (JW) "believe" Robert is irrelevant to the evidence at hand, which I have now showed from scripture 4 times ([1] Sanctuary, [2] (Prophecy) Isaiah 28:16-17, [3] (Typology of Moses) Exodus 17:9-13, [4] Scripture (1st book) confirming Nature (2nd book) (and more yet still to come), and now I will even show the deception and misrepresentation that takes place in WTS materials. Ready to see it? You can verify everything for yourself.

For example, the Watch Tower and Tract Society, cites Justus Lipsius' work “De Cruce Liber Primus” [1] and cite* merely one small section of the work, pointing to a possible type of crucifixion that was historically known, this being the Crux Simplex, Page 19, seen here - Wayback Machine or here - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Justus_Lipsius_Crux_Simplex_1629.jpg , which is also seen in a more modern rendition, in the WTS material “What does the Bible really Teach?”, Page 52 [to which I had been given a copy of from a Jehovah's Witness, whom I knew briefly,and fully read], and also may be seen here - https://assetsnffrgf-a.akamaihd.net/assets/m/1102005135/univ/art/1102005135_univ_cnt_1_md.jpg

Yet Justus Lipsius work cites many types of crucifixions, that were historically known and used, not simply the one pointed out by the WTS, and he also does not point to the Crux Simplex as the one Jesus was crucified upon, but rather to another, being one with a cross beam, as may be seen here [Begin on Scanned Pages 1157-1234] - Opera omnia, postremum ab ipso aucta et recensita, nunc primum ..., Volume 3

- Specifically see Pages:

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* “... the Watchtower's 1985 Kingdom Interlinear Translation, of which the above woodcut is shown as an illustration:

"`Cross'" is only a later meaning of crux. A single stake for impalement of a criminal was called in Latin crux simplex. One such instrument of torture is illustrated by Justus Lipsius (1547-1606) in his book De cruce libri tres, Antwerp, 1629, p. 19, which we here present. ... Crux simplex illustrated."” - [1]

[and for more on that work, see here] - Jesus is Jehovah!: Justus Lipsius' De Cruce Liber Tres​

Looking at the Scriptural evidences again, we can see that the very word “tree” in Deuteronomy 21:22,23 KJB, as cited before, and requoted in the New Testament by Luke, Paul [Acts 5:30, 10:39, 13:29; Galatians 3:13, etc KJB], and Peter [1 Peter 2:24 KJB], does indeed refer to “tree”, as we find the same word used in Genesis 1:11 KJB.

This is the first time that this word is used, and the first use, in Scripture, generally defines the meaning. In the word secondary uses, it also can mean that “wood”, or “sticks”, etc which come from the “tree”, and we can know also, from the very fact that in the beginning, there was no items separate from trees like lumber, for there was no need, in the Garden of Eden.

Therefore, anything which came from the “tree” is simply derivative of it. The last use in the Scripture of the Greek equivalent, also refers to a literal “tree”, even the “tree of life”, again found in the Garden. This is one of the principles of Scripture. First and Last usages, even the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending...

The “tree of life” in the Beginning, the “tree of life” in the ending, and the “tree” of “Life” in the center, the Cross of Jesus and Him Crucified, spreading its saving shadow and cover, from the heat and fiery fury of the wrath of God to come.

 

[ReChoired]

Jehovah's witnesses believe that Jesus was nailed to an upright pole ...

What they (JW) "believe" Robert is irrelevant to the evidence at hand Robert, which I have now showed from scripture 4 times ([1] Sanctuary, [2] (Prophecy) Isaiah 28:16-17, [3] (Typology of Moses) Exodus 17:9-13, [4] Scripture (1st book) confirming Nature (2nd book) (and more yet still to come), and now I will even show the deception and misrepresentation that takes place in WTS materials. Ready to see it? You can verify everything for yourself.

According to WTS theology, Jesus died on a 'torture stake' [pole. "i"], and not a "Cross" ["t"], when they say:

"... The Imperial Bible-Dictionary says that the word staurosʹ “properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling a piece of ground.” The dictionary continues: “Even amongst the Romans the crux (Latin, from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.” Thus, it is not surprising that The Catholic Encyclopedia states: “Certain it is, at any rate, that the cross originally consisted of a simple vertical pole, sharpened at its upper end.” ..." - [1]​

[Question to you Robert] Given, those citations from the WTS, how do you explain their deliberate misuse of those citations, and editing of the citations?

Evidence, which the WTS ignored, and altered, ending a sentence with a period, when it should have been either a 'comma' or a set of 'ellipses' because the remainder of the sentence changes the entire thing, 'prominent part', meaning there was more than one part, more than the "pole"/'stake", there was the "cross piece", or "patibulum". More than this, the Imperial Bible Dictionary of Patrick Fairbairn [a trinitarian], does not choose a single upright stake, but rather agrees generally with one of the latter of the three: "T", "X", "t" forms.:

The Imperial Bible Dictionary, Historical, Biographical, Geographical, and Doctrinal: Including the Natural History, Antiquities, Manners, Customs, and Religious Rites And Ceremonies Mentioned In The Scriptures, And An Account Of The Several Books Of The Old And New Testaments. Edited By The Rev. Patrick Fairbairn, D.D., Author Of "Typology Of Scripture," "Commentary On Ezekiel," Etc. Illustrated By Numerous Engravers, Volume I, London: Blackie And Son, Paternoster Row; And Glasgow And Edinburgh. MDCCCLXVL., pages 376, 377

"... CROSS, CRUCIFY. The Greek word for cross, σταυρός, properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling a piece of ground. But a modification was introduced as the dominion and usages of Rome extended themselves through Greek-speaking countries. Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole, and this always remained the more prominent part. But from the time that it began to be used as an instrument of punishment, a transverse piece of wood was commonly added: not, however, always even then. For it would seem that there were more kinds of death than the one by the cross; this being sometimes accomplished by transfixing the criminal with a pole, which was run through his back and spine, and came out at his mouth (adactum per medium hominem, qui per os emergat, stipitem, Seneca, Ep. xiv.) In another place (Consol. ad Marciam, xx.), Seneca mentions three different forms: "I see," says he, "three crosses, not indeed of one sort, but fashioned in different ways; one sort suspending by the head persons bent toward the earth, others transfixing them through their secret parts, others extending their arms on a patibulum." There can be no doubt, however, that the latter sort was the more common, and that about the period of the gospel age crucifixion was usually accomplished by suspending the criminal on a cross piece of wood.

But this does not of itself determine the precise form of the cross; for crosses of three different shapes were known to have been in use. One, and that probably the most ancient, was in the form of the letter T, which as commonly written consisted simply of a perpendicular line with another laid across the top, making two right angles, T. In the earlier Christian writers this letter is often referred to to as a symbol of the cross, and, on account of such a resemblance, Lucian, in his usual style, prefers a charge against the letter (Judio. Voc. xii.) The letter X represents another sort, which has received the name of St. Andrew, from a tradition that on a cross of this description the apostle of that [Page 376-377] name suffered martyrdom. But the commonest form, it is understood, was that in which the upright piece of wood was crossed by another near the top, but not precisely at it, the upright pole running above the other, thus t -- and so making four, not merely two right angles. It was on a cross of this form, according to the general voice of tradition, that our Lord suffered; but there is nothing in the narratives of the evangelists which determines this to have been the form employed, rather than either of the other two. It is, however, the one most commonly met with in the paintings and sculptures that have survived from the earlier ages. ..." - Imperial Bible dictionary : historical, biographical, geographical, and doctrinal including the natural history, antiquities, manners, customs, and religious rites and ceremonies mentioned in the Scriptures, and an account of the several books of the Old and New Testaments​

 

[ReChoired]

Jehovah's witnesses believe that Jesus was nailed to an upright pole ...

What they (JW) "believe" Robert is irrelevant to the evidence at hand Robert, which I have now showed from scripture 4 times ([1] Sanctuary, [2] (Prophecy) Isaiah 28:16-17, [3] (Typology of Moses) Exodus 17:9-13, [4] Scripture (1st book) confirming Nature (2nd book) (and more yet still to come), and now I will even show the deception and misrepresentation that takes place in WTS materials. Ready to see it? You can verify everything for yourself.

The Roman Catholic Encyclopedia actually says:

"... The penalty of the cross goes back probably to the arbor infelix, or unhappy tree, spoken of by Cicero (Pro, Rabir., iii sqq.) and by Livy, apropos of the condemnation of Horatius after the murder of his sister. According to Hüschke (Die Multa, 190) the magistrates known as duoviri perduellionis pronounced this penalty (cf. Liv., I, 266), styled also infelix lignem (Senec., Ep. ci; Plin., XVI, xxvi; XXIV, ix; Macrob., II, xvi). This primitive form of crucifixion on trees was long in use, as Justus Lipsius notes ("De cruce", I, ii, 5; Tert., "Apol.", VIII, xvi; and "Martyrol. Paphnut." 25 Sept.). Such a tree was known as a cross (crux). On an ancient vase we see Prometheus bound to a beam which serves the purpose of a cross. A somewhat different form is seen on an ancient cist at Præneste (Palestrina), upon which Andromeda is represented nude, and bound by the feet to an instrument of punishment like a military yoke — i.e. two parallel, perpendicular stakes, surmounted by a transverse bar. Certain it is, at any rate, that the cross originally consisted of a simple vertical pole, sharpened at its upper end. Mæcenas (Seneca, Epist. xvii, 1, 10) calls it acuta crux; it could also be called crux simplex. To this upright pole a transverse bar was afterwards added to which the sufferer was fastened with nails or cords, and thus remained until he died, whence the expression cruci figere or affigere (Tac., "Ann.", XV, xliv; Potron., "Satyr.", iii) The cross, especially in the earlier times, was generally low. It was elevated only in exceptional cases, particularly whom it was desired to make the punishment more exemplary or when the crime was exceptionally serious. Suetonius (Galba, ix) tells us that Galba did this in the case of a certain criminal for whom he caused to be made a very high cross painted white — "multo præter cætteras altiorem et dealbatam statui crucem jussit". ...

... Among the Romans the cross never had the symbolical meaning which it had in the ancient Orient; they regarded solely as a material instrument of punishment. There are in the Old Testament clear allusions to the Cross and Crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Thus the Greek lefter (tau or thau) appears in Ezekiel 9:4, according to St. Jerome and other Fathers, as a solemn symbol of the Cross of Christ — "Mark Thau upon the foreheads of the men that sigh". The only other symbol of crucifixion indicated in the Old Testament is the brazen serpent in the Book of Numbers (21:8-9). Christ Himself thus interpreted the passage: "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up" (John 3:14). The Psalmist predicts the piercing of the hands and the feet (Psalm 21:17). This was a true prophecy, inasmuch as it could not be conceived from any custom then existing; the practice of nailing the condemned to a T-shaped cross being, as we have seen, at that time exclusively Western. The cross on which Jesus Christ was nailed was of the kind known as immissa, which means that the vertical trunk extended a certain height above the transverse beam; it was thus higher than the crosses of the two thieves, his crime being judged a graver one, according to St. John Chrysostom (Homil. v, c. i., on I Corinth.). The earliest Christian Fathers who speak of the Cross describe it as thus constructed. We gather as much from St. Matthew (27:37), where he tells us that the titulus, or inscription containing the cause of His death, was placed, "over", the head of Jesus Christ (cf. Luke 23:38; John 19:19). St. Irenæus (Adv. Haer., II, xxiv) says that the Cross had five extremities: two in its length, two in its breadth, and the fifth a projection (habitus) in the middle — "Fines et summitates habet quinque, duas in longitudine, duas in latitudine, unam in medio". St. Augustine agrees with him: "Erat latitudo in qua porrectæ sunt manus longitudo a terrâ surgens, in quâ erat corpus infixum; altitudo ab illo divexo ligno sursum quod imminet" (Enarration on Psalm 103; Serm. i, 44) and in other passages quoted by Zöckler (Das Kreuz, 1875, pp. 430, 431).

Nonnus confirms the statement that Jesus Christ was crucified on a quadrilateral cross (). St. Irenæus, in the passage cited above says that the Cross had a fifth extremity, on which the Crucified One was seated. St. Justin calls it a horn, and compares it to the horn of a rhinoceros (Dialogus cum Tryphone, xci). Tertullian calls it sedilus excessus, a projecting seat, or shelf (Ad. Nat., I, xii). This little seat (equuleus) prevented the weight of the body from completely tearing the nail-pierced hands, and it helped to support the sufferer. It has never been indicated, however, in representations of the Crucifixion. On the Cross of Christ was placed the titulus, as to the wording of which the Four Evangelists do not agree. St. Matthew (xxvii, 37) gives, "This is Jesus the King of the Jews"; St. Mark (xv, 26) "The King of the Jews"; St. Luke (xxiii, 38), "This is the King of the Jews"; St. John, an eyewitness (xix, 19), "Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews". In representations of the Crucifixion there often appears beneath the feet a wooden support (, suppedaneum); that it ever existed is very doubtful. The first express mention of it occurs in Gregory of Tours (De Gloriâ Martyrum, vi). St. Cyprian, Theodoret, and Rufinus hint at it. ..." - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Archaeology of the Cross and Crucifix
​

You admitted that the WTS makes mistakes. Will they correct this one? or no? Will you, Robert, personally make the correction in your own life even if they do not?

 

[ReChoired]

The question is Robert, why cannot you admit so simple an error as that? Should we look at your reference for "pole" Robert, from scripture?

 

[ReChoired]

The Bible does not give the shape of the execution instrument of Jesus' death sir.

Robert, are you sure, even after all I have been presenting from scripture?

It simply states he died on a stauros and also states xylon. Stauros is defined as an upright pole, and xylon is translated tree.

I don't know Robert, it sounds like you are attempting awfully hard to define from "the Bible" "the shape of the execution instrument of Jesus' death". Is the shape found in the words, or in how the words are used in context in the Bible and confirming in history Robert? A tree is an upright pole with branches Robert.

Jehovah's witnesses believe that Jesus was nailed to an upright pole ... The simple truth is that no one knows exactly what the form of the stauros was. Anything submitted on it is simply opinion.

So the WTS is merely stating their own "opinion" Robert? Could they be wrong as they have been before as you admitted to me? Did you know that they (WTS) used to teach that Jesus died on a Cross, not a Pole Robert?

The tombstone/marker of C. T. Russell bears this out, as does several WTS magazines:

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ISvcCeJHEXQ/WAXgB18Th8I/AAAAAAAACB0/4HpXb5ElbM4vGeG3d14QvRUcIQNuV5jTwCLcB/s1600/pyramid.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BswjvKdQkvs/WAVHGCJ5cRI/AAAAAAAACBQ/6C83eJxoo28MRLjThC_rA254DOc6ECREwCLcB/s1600/EarlyWTmag.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Do you see the Cross and Crown (also a Knight's Templar symbol, a thing of occult, just as Johannes Greber was into) Robert? Were they wrong before and so changed, or are they wrong now and need to change back do you think? If they could hold the idea that it was a cross (with patiblum) is it so bad Robert to hold to it now?

So, you are saying that the WTS "believe" but have no solid evidence for that belief, and so say, "The simple truth is that no one knows exactly what the form of the stauros was. Anything submitted on it is simply opinion." If it is only the WTS "opinion" Robert, then what is the harm in giving up their unfounded opinion and taking hold of the plethora of evidence from scripture and nature, typology, prophecy, history as I have, and will yet give (by JEHOVAH's grace)? Can you answer that for me? I press this point for a good reason.

 

[ReChoired]

... which is most efficient in the mode of death. All physical fitness people realize that it is easier to breathe with arms extended outright, whereas very difficult if hanging by arms overhead.

Robert, the Cross of the Romans, was not to put people to death quickly. It was an instrument of extreme pain, suffering, (public) shame and torture. It was so that the criminals died a horrible, slow and agonizing and public death. I didn't realize Jesus was on the Cross for a workout routine, to obtain physical fitness. I thought it was to suffer because of our sins.

If we consider the testimony of the scriptures, it seems Jesus was speaking unto the last breath, and even with a great and loud voice at that.

However, the Scripture says nothing about Christ dying of "suffocation/asphyxiation", but rather it expresses He died of a great sorrow of heart, and separation, because of our sin, from the Father and Holy Spirit.

Therefore, without in any way saying that any given scientific articles about crucifixion in general is bad, but that the apriori that Christ must have died in that manner (suffocation) is incorrect, and thus, while the science is fine in its specific demonstration, it fails to address the Scriptures in what they themselves portray. We are not dealing in "popular" belief, but rather – Truth.

Matthew 27:45 - Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
Matthew 27:46 - And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mark 15:33 - And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.
Mark 15:34 - And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?​

This is citing Psalms 22 KJB, to which Jesus directed us:

Psalm 22:1 - [[To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.]] My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? [why art thou so] far from helping me, [and from] the words of my roaring?
Psalm 22:2 - O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
Psalm 22:24 - For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard. etc.​

Therefore, all the science which declares a man may indeed suffocate unto death in such a manner being upraised, accurate in its details as may be as demonstrated, is not the Scriptural account at all. Notice where the weight of the sin of the world, already begun to come upon Christ Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane.

Isaiah 53:4 - Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Matthew 26:38 - Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

Mark 14:34 - And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.

Luke 22:44 - And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.​

Notice please, that Jesus was not suffocating (surely He is suffering some suffocation, and breathing becomes harder) unto death for lack of breath, for He cries out loud so the whole country side could hear him, even after many hours [3rd hour to 9th hour, about 9 AM to 3 PM, time of the morning and evening sacrifices] upon the Cross, and spoke clearly many times during the events.

This would not be possible if dying for breath and suffocation, and I am sure the same science which has been so kindly demonstrated would reveal this clearly if sought after more deeply:

Psalm 22:1 - [[To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.]] My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? [why art thou so] far from helping me, [and from] the words of my roaring?
Psalm 22:2 - O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
Psalm 22:24 - For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

Matthew 27:45 - Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
Matthew 27:46 - And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Matthew 27:47 - Some of them that stood there, when they heard [that], said, This [man] calleth for Elias.
Matthew 27:50 - Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Mark 15:33 - And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.
Mark 15:34 - And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mark 15:35 - And some of them that stood by, when they heard [it], said, Behold, he calleth Elias.
Mark 15:37 - And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.

Luke 23:43 - And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Luke 23:46 - And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

John 19:26 - When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
John 19:27 - Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own [home].
John 19:28 - After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
John 19:29 - Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put [it] upon hyssop, and put [it] to his mouth.
John 19:30 - When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.​

He still had breath/ghost unto the last Robert, even enough to speak a thoughtful sentence.

Robert, do you think your own testimony is holding weight with scripture as evidence? Can you demonstrate from scripture Robert your position, as I have?

If the WTS was wrong in the past Robert, can't they simply be wrong on this, and if they only hold a mere "opinion", isn't it better to go with the evidences in belief instead?

Jesus himself said, speaking in another manner:

John 15:1 - I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

John 15:5 - I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.​

And since Jesus is “the vine”, it climbs up and supported by wood, and stretches out its tendrils along the trellises.









Can you see what Jesus said Robert? He drew from Nature itself, created by His own hand at the command of the Father. When His side was pierced by the Roman spear, dear Robert, what came out? Blood (red) and water right? When you pierce the fresh grape upon the vine, what come out Robert? Have you been to a vineyard Robert to see how they grow and what they look like "hanging"? I have. They all look like the events at Calvary as far as the eye can see. What say you Robert?

 

[ReChoired]

The Bible does not give the shape of the execution instrument of Jesus' death sir. It simply states he died on a stauros and also states xylon. Stauros is defined as an upright pole, and xylon is translated tree. Jehovah's witnesses believe that Jesus was nailed to an upright pole, which is most efficient in the mode of death. All physical fitness people realize that it is easier to breathe with arms extended outright, whereas very difficult if hanging by arms overhead. The simple truth is that no one knows exactly what the form of the stauros was. Anything submitted on it is simply opinion.

Let's see some more typology, since Jesus is in all of scripture, and even how He would suffer:

Samson; Judges 16. - Judges 16 :: King James Version (KJV)

[A.] Just as Samson, representing Jesus as deliverer, was born specially, by promise from God, to a woman which could not bare, and he was to be filled with the Holy Ghost, and to be dedicated to the Lord from birth to death, and to be deliverer of the people [Judges 13].

Jesus, a holy child, was born of the virgin Mary, by Holy Ghost, to be dedicated to the Lord forever [Luke 1:35; Acts 4:27,30], and to be the Saviour and deliverer of all people, who would accept the sacrifice [Matthew 1:21; Acts 13:23; Romans 11:26, etc].​

[B.] Just as Samson, representing Jesus as deliverer, was attempted to be taken many times by his enemies, but could not be until betrayed by a woman [harlot] he loved, for silver [Judges 16:5,18; even as the type of Christ, Joseph was sold/betrayed by Juda for silver [Genesis 37:27,28]], into the hands of his enemies as a slave, even though he had “shewed [her] all his heart” [Judges 16:18].

Jesus, also could not be taken, until his appropriate time [Daniel 9:24-27, in the Year AD 31, in the First Month, Aviv/Nisan, on the 14th Day of the Month, being the 6th Day of the week [aka Friday, preparation day], dying at the 9th hour [roughly 3 PM, the time of the evening Sacrifice], to enter into the 7th Day the Sabbath rest of Creation/Redemption] betrayed by a woman [the harlot Church, physical Israel, even at the hands of Judas], for silver [Zechariah 11:12,13; Matthew 26:15, 27:3], into the hands of the enemy, for the price of a slave [Matthew 27:9].​

[C.] Just as Samson, representing Jesus as deliverer, carried “the bar” of the “gate” [the place of judgment], even the great weight, across his “shoulders”, up to the top of a “hill” [Judges 16:3].

Jesus, also carried the cross [John 19:17], after a manner [Simon of Cyrene, being an example for us, to take up that Cross and bear it for Jesus; Matthew 16:24; Mark 8:34; Luke 9:23], up to the hill of Golgotha [Matthew 27:33; Mark 15:22; John 19:17], the place of the Skull, bearing the weight of the not merely the cross, but the sins of the whole world [Isaiah 63:9], the government and judgment should be upon his shoulders [Isaiah 9:6, 22:22].​

[D.] Just as Samson, representing Jesus as deliverer, was blinded [Judges 16:21], that he could not see, and was ill-treated and mocked of his enemies [Judges 16:25], the LORD being departing from him [Judges 16:20].

Jesus, also was blind-folded [Luke 22:64], that he could not see, and was ill-treated and mocked of his enemies [Job 12:4; Matthew 27:29,31; Mark 15:20; Luke 23:11,36], apparently forsaken of God [Psalms 22:1; Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34].​

[E.] Just as Samson, representing Jesus as deliverer, then in the last moments of his life, was taken out, placed between two pillars [Judges 16:25] and leaned upon them with his hands outstretched, to the right and to the left [Judges 16:29], east and west, praying [Judges 16:28], and dying with the enemies [Judges 16:30], destroyed the Temple [Judges 16:30], slaying his enemies more in his death, than in his life.

Jesus, also then was placed between two persons, one of the Right hand, the other on the left [Matthew 27:38; Mark 15:27; Luke 23:33; John 19:18]. Jesus said that He would destroy the Temple [John 2:19], by which he slays in/by his death the enmity between God and mankind [Genesis 3:15; Ephesians 2;16, etc], forever magnifying the Law of God, making it honourable [Isaiah 42:21], demonstrating its eternality. His hands and arms outstretched, with a “nail” [“as a nail in a sure place”; Isaiah 22:23,25] in each hand, whose “bones were out of joint”, even “as far as the east is from the west” to save and deliver, even unto a gainsaying people.
​

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https://lh3.ggpht.com/-LbZZbF6UOpk/UJR_GmCBNwI/AAAAAAAACIM/QbBcyhp9Y0c/s1600/samsongate.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.BOwJhJ3omS6IRzct7PQyPwHaDt&pid=Api&f=1

Do you see the arms outstretched in the WTS/JW artwork Robert?

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https://i.pinimg.com/originals/98/35/ef/9835efcafdb21b102208aa6a981a8dfb.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Do you see the Cross Bar (of servitude as he treads alone) in His hands Robert?

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.r7aqh11zmNZsf815a0T86AHaLu&pid=Api&f=1

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/11/77/4c/11774ce4ce319f10252a85380d033bd2.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http://www.bibleinsong.com/Promises/Quotes_characters/Samson_Delilah/Top/4.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Do you see how Samson dies in the WTS/JW artwork, and others, Robert? Hands outstretched between two?

You admitted that the WTS makes mistakes. Will they correct this one? or no? Will you, Robert, personally make the correction in your own life even if they do not?

 

[ReChoired]

The Bible does not give the shape of the execution instrument of Jesus' death sir. It simply states he died on a stauros and also states xylon. Stauros is defined as an upright pole, and xylon is translated tree. Jehovah's witnesses believe that Jesus was nailed to an upright pole, which is most efficient in the mode of death. All physical fitness people realize that it is easier to breathe with arms extended outright, whereas very difficult if hanging by arms overhead. The simple truth is that no one knows exactly what the form of the stauros was. Anything submitted on it is simply opinion.

Robert, have you looked into the name JEHOVAH as written in pictographs?

Moses [an Hebrew [Exodus 2:11 KJB], of the tribe of Levi, not Judah; Exodus 2:1; 1 Chronicles 23:14 KJB] wrote the very words of Genesis 1:1-31, 2:1-4 [etc.], and more specifically that of Genesis 1:1, and 2:4, yes/no, Robert?

Moses, inspired of God [2 Peter 1:21 KJB], wrote the name of God, in Genesis 2:4, as "יהוה" [trans. lit. YHVH], and in Genesis 1:1, the words used were "אלהים את ... ואת", yes/no, Robert?

Therefore, the question is concerned with the specific words, in either ancient Hebrew pictograph and/or modern Hebrew script. For instance, both the Mesha Stele [for the YHVH] - link, and the Gezer Calendar [for some ancient script] - link, and so, consider the ancient Hebrew script here -

https://archive.org/download/book-h...tal Hebrew Alphabet - Douglas N Petrovich.pdf

https://archive.org/download/hebrew...ph And Script Chart - Douglas N Petrovich.jpg

https://archive.org/download/awhn-paleo-hebrew/AWHN - Paleo-Hebrew.jpg

https://archive.org/download/awhn-picto-hebrew/AWHN - Picto-Hebrew.png

Thus, I am interested in the specific words/letters themselves.

For instance, the name of God, given to Moses, "יהוה" [trans. lit. YHVH], given some 6528 times in the OT, in pictographic Hebrew is:

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-s3F4A924...As4/PFmArO3vXx0/s1600/YHWH_Picto-Hebrew_2.jpg

which can mean, "hand", "Behold", "the nail [print]", "Behold", see John 20:27 KJB:

Joh 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.​

It can also mean a covenant between two, by sacrifice/piercing.

Even more than this, the words in Genesis 1:1, Hebrew - בראשׁית ברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ׃, reveal two untranslated words, the Aleph, Tav, and the Vav, Aleph, Tav, which is the nail piercing the sacrifice to the cross, in Pictographic Hebrew, the very "sign" suspended between the words "Heaven" and "Earth":

Heart To Heart: Image

Yeshua and the Hebrew Alphabet

It is WRIT LARGE for all the universe to see and understand, for those who love the Truth. Jesus said, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify about me." [John 5:39 KJB] [This statement by Jesus, is easily tested, and shown to be absolutely true, from beginning to end, my next questions will concern these things.]

Robert, is it possible yet, that the WTS is simply wrong on this one, and they hold to an erroneous "opinion", not backed by anything substantial, not from scripture, typology, prophecy, nature, history, linguistics?

 

[ReChoired]

The Bible does not give the shape of the execution instrument of Jesus' death sir. It simply states he died on a stauros and also states xylon. Stauros is defined as an upright pole, and xylon is translated tree. Jehovah's witnesses believe that Jesus was nailed to an upright pole, which is most efficient in the mode of death. All physical fitness people realize that it is easier to breathe with arms extended outright, whereas very difficult if hanging by arms overhead. The simple truth is that no one knows exactly what the form of the stauros was. Anything submitted on it is simply opinion.

"Opinion", Robert? Are you sure? Or am I providing documented facts of the matter?

In Ezekiel 9:4 we read a mark (a sign) set upon those who follow God:

Eze 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

Eze 9:4 ויאמר יהוה אלו עבר בתוך העיר בתוך ירושׁלם והתוית תו על־מצחות האנשׁים הנאנחים והנאנקים על כל־התועבות הנעשׂות בתוכה׃

Eze 9:4 waYomer y'hwäh *ëlô [ëläyw] ávor B'tôkh' häiyr B'tôkh' y'rûshäläim w'hit'wiytä Täw al-mitz'chôt häánäshiym haNeénächiym w'haNeénäqiym al Käl-haTôëvôt haNaásôt B'tôkhäH​

The "Tav" ("Tau" or "Täw") in hebrew Pictograph is "t" (a cross):

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https://livingmanna.net/store/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/ANCIENT_TAV_2012_1024x1024.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

The Hebrew "Tav" "ת" in the Old Testament, is also seen in the Passover service, when the blood of the Lamb was painted on two sides of the Doorposts, and across on the lintel:

Exo_12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.​

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https://i.pinimg.com/originals/94/f5/76/94f57668dc9120cb0d5b22ec4fa434b1.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

This makes the Hebrew "Tav" or "Mark" (Sign) set by God. When both pillars are seen as one (Vertical), and the lintel as the cross piece (Horizonal), it makes the Cross in the Hebrew Pictograph which represents the "Tav" in modern Hebrew.

Robert, have you ever seen this evidence before? Could the WTS be wrong in their "opinion"? What is the WTS evidence for the "opinion" Robert? Is it as vast and in depth as what has been presented so far (there is yet more)?

 

[ReChoired]

The Bible does not give the shape of the execution instrument of Jesus' death sir. It simply states he died on a stauros and also states xylon. Stauros is defined as an upright pole, and xylon is translated tree. Jehovah's witnesses believe that Jesus was nailed to an upright pole, which is most efficient in the mode of death. All physical fitness people realize that it is easier to breathe with arms extended outright, whereas very difficult if hanging by arms overhead. The simple truth is that no one knows exactly what the form of the stauros was. Anything submitted on it is simply opinion.

Consider hanging from the tree again, in type, with Absalom, with WTS materials!:

While the central root "stock" would be a pole-beam, there would also be the cross-beam, the 'Patiblum', which would be the "branches" coming off the root stock, and thus be a "tree" as Paul and others called it.

Even in the Footnotes of the NWT, they allow for the word "tree":

"... [Acts 5:20 NWT] The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom you killed, hanging him on a stake.*n ..."; "... *Or “tree.” ..." [1]

"... [Acts 10:39 NWT] And we are witnesses of all the things he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem; but they did away with him by hanging him on a stake.* ..."; "... *Or “tree.” ..." [1]

"... [Acts 13:29 NWT] And when they had accomplished all the things written about him, they took him down from the stake* and laid him in a tomb.*z ..."; "... *Or “tree.” ..." [1]

"... [1 Peter 2:24 NWT] He himself bore our sinsu in his own body on the stake,*v so that we might die to* sins and live to righteousness. And “by his wounds you were healed.”w ..."; "... *Or “tree.” ..." [1]​

Other mentions:

"... [Joshua 8:29 NWT] He hung the king of Aʹi on a stake* until the evening, and as the sun was about to set, Joshua gave the order to take his dead body down from the stake.v Then they pitched it at the entrance of the city gate and raised up a great pile of stones over him, which is there to this day. ..."; "... *Or “tree.” ..." [1]

"... [2 Samuel 18:9,10,14 NWT] 9 Abʹsa·lom eventually found himself facing the servants of David. Abʹsa·lom was riding on a mule, and the mule went under the thick branches of a large tree, and his head got entangled in the big tree, so that he was suspended in midair* while the mule he had been riding kept going.

10 Then someone saw it and told Joʹab:l “Look! I have seen Abʹsa·lom hanging in a big tree.”
14 To this Joʹab said: “I am not going to waste any more time with you!” So he took three spikes* in his hand and drove them through the heart of Abʹsa·lom while he was still alive in the midst of the big tree. ..." [1]​

In the Typology of 2 Samuel 18:9,10,14 KJB, we read of Absalom [the son of David; whose name means the "Father's peace"] was, because of sin, rebellion against the King, hung upon a tree [by his hair, his glory], and was suspended between Heaven and Earth, and struck with three piercings, or as the NWT says, "three spikes", as large nails, and then in his death buried as wicked.

2 Samuel 18:9 KJB - And Absalom met the servants of David. And Absalom rode upon a mule, and the mule went under the thick boughs of a great oak, and his head caught hold of the oak, and he was taken up between the heaven and the earth; and the mule that was under him went away.
2 Samuel 18:10 KJB - And a certain man saw it, and told Joab, and said, Behold, I saw Absalom hanged in an oak.
2 Samuel 18:14 KJB - Then said Joab, I may not tarry thus with thee. And he took three darts in his hand, and thrust them through the heart of Absalom, while he was yet alive in the midst of the oak.​

Just as Jesus, who took our sins upon himself, was hung upon a Tree, the son of David, the Father's peace towards man, suspended between Heaven and Earth, pierced by three nails upon the Cross, then in His death, taken down and buried as with the wicked [Isaiah 53:9 KJB].



Can you see the "tree" yet Robert?

 

[ReChoired]

The Bible does not give the shape of the execution instrument of Jesus' death sir. It simply states he died on a stauros and also states xylon. Stauros is defined as an upright pole, and xylon is translated tree. Jehovah's witnesses believe that Jesus was nailed to an upright pole, which is most efficient in the mode of death. All physical fitness people realize that it is easier to breathe with arms extended outright, whereas very difficult if hanging by arms overhead. The simple truth is that no one knows exactly what the form of the stauros was. Anything submitted on it is simply opinion.

The WTS teach that Jesus died on a 'torture stake' [see "What Does the Bible Really Teach?", page 52 or [1]] rather than crucified on a "cross". On what textual, historical, prophetical, typological, natural (of Nature), medical grounds does the WTS substantiate its claims? [please be specific, cite official and original (not WTS edited) sources]

Side Note:

If any Jehovah's Witnesses, choose not to be associated with such T or t symbol as the Cross, then this is their choice, but they should know that by simply assaulting this symbol [the Cross], they have left untouched many others which exist in the Watch Tower and Tract Society materials [Divine Plan of the Ages, New Creation, etc] and buildings, like the Winged Sun-disk of Thebes, Pyramids, the W-Fingered Hand, Keys, etc.

More than this, the very "torture stake" is also seen within paganism, and “phallic”, under the Pole, May-pole, the Stella, Needle, Pyramid, Spike, Yule-Log, Obelisk and so on. Perhaps they have a “beam” in their eye on this, while they are attempting to remove the cross splinter [those who wrongly wear such things] in others.

Yet, none of that would matter so much to us, since even an idol is "nothing" as Paul says, but rather what ought to interest us, is what are the Doctrines that are taught, and are they in harmony with Scripture/Christ Jesus, and that is what is important to us.

If we, who believe Jesus died upon the "cross" are called "fools" for so believing, then let us be "fools" after this manner alone:

1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:27 - But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;​

And prayerfully and hopefully, all may see the love of God that He has for you, and so also I, and desire you to have the Truth, even as it is written.

If people say, "What does it matter?"

Jesus said:

John 17:17 - Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

John 17:19 - And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.​

For Error cannot ever sanctify. Psalms 77:13 stated that God's Way, His Truth, is found in the Sanctuary. We have already seen what picture it gives.

Jesus Himself, also went about correcting error and misunderstanding, and I follow after Him.

Matthew 22:29 - Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Mark 12:24 - And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Mark 12:27 - "... ye therefore do greatly err."​

etc.

Jesus is very concerned about right answers, in the right attitude, spirit:

Luke 7:43 - Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

Luke 10:26-28 - [26] He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? [27] And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. [28] And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Luke 20:21 - And they asked him, saying, Master, we know that thou sayest and teachest rightly, neither acceptest thou the person of any, but teachest the way of God truly:

2 Timothy 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.​

The plan of Redemption, the Image of God again seen in mankind, the Tree of Life (Cross of Calvary), planted in the Heart, that God may once again Walk in the Garden of the heart of man [a Garden enclosed by the Wall, even that Law of Love], for through sin, we evicted God from the Heart, and He had to evict us from the Garden and from the Tree of Life, but now Christ Jesus has made a way, through Himself, that we may once again be in Atonement with God and man, God with us, yes, God Himself indwelt in us... who can explain it? But what everlasting Joy, what Fruit of Righteousness, what Fruit of Love...

What of the Serpent upon a Pole? Did it have any cross piece or branching? Yes ...

The Hebrew H5251, "נס", "nês", is also used for a "sail" on a Mast of a ship, which is not merely a pole, but a pole with small crossbeams to hold the sails, and top sail, crows nests, etc.:

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/detail-ship-s-mast-greek-flag-32846403.jpg

People even make Jewelry (not that it should be done or worn), for sailors, seamen, out of this:

https://external-content.duckduckgo...MG_6300_1024x1024.jpg?v=1594325799&f=1&nofb=1

Isa 33:23 - Thy tacklings are loosed; they could not well strengthen their mast, they could not spread the sail: then is the prey of a great spoil divided; the lame take the prey.

Eze 27:7 - Fine linen with broidered work from Egypt was that which thou spreadest forth to be thy sail; blue and purple from the isles of Elishah was that which covered thee.​

 

[ReChoired]

The Bible does not give the shape of the execution instrument of Jesus' death sir. It simply states he died on a stauros and also states xylon. Stauros is defined as an upright pole, and xylon is translated tree. Jehovah's witnesses believe that Jesus was nailed to an upright pole, which is most efficient in the mode of death. All physical fitness people realize that it is easier to breathe with arms extended outright, whereas very difficult if hanging by arms overhead. The simple truth is that no one knows exactly what the form of the stauros was. Anything submitted on it is simply opinion.

The WTS teach that Jesus died on a 'torture stake' [see "What Does the Bible Really Teach?", page 52 or [1]] rather than crucified on a "cross". On what textual, historical, prophetical, typological, natural (of Nature), medical grounds does the WTS substantiate its claims? [please be specific, cite official and original (not WTS edited) sources]

It is also used in a "banner", which was an upright pole, with a crosspiece for the ensign:

https://www.biblecartoons.co.uk/images/345.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/96/e8/a7/96e8a76f290c8355b7b7a33543b42d56--israel-flag-bible-knowledge.jpg

standard, 7

Isaiah 49:22, 62:10; Jeremiah 4:6,21; Jeremiah 50:2, 51:12,27​

ensign, 6

Isaiah 5:26, 11:10,12, 18:3, 30:17, 31:9​

banner, 2

Psalms 60:4; Isaiah 13:2​

Do you see the "Banner" hung on a pole with a cross-piece?

Son_2:4 He brought me to the banqueting house, and his banner over me was love.

1Jn_4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1Jn_4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.​

Christ Jesus upon the Cross, is Love.

Just like this:

https://i2.wp.com/craigladams.com/b...ads/2015/03/bronze_serpent_3.jpg?w=1024&ssl=1

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4juIneRsTj0/maxresdefault.jpg

Redirect Notice

moses Cross serpent pole picture - Google Search

Numbers 21:8 - And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

Numbers 21:9 - And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.​

The Serpent also represents Christ Jesus, as He bare our sins upon the "tree".

2 Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 Peter 2:24 - Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.​

Later on the bronze serpent was destroyed:

2 Kings 18:4 - He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.
​

So, is it possible, that the WTS is simply just wrong, and that their "opinion" is not founded on anything substantial?

In the NT, Jesus had to place mud upon the eye of the blind man - so that he could see, yet there were several things that the man needed to do. The first thing was to believe Jesus in who He said He was. The second thing was to go where Jesus told him to go. The third thing was to do what Jesus told him to do. I long to heal you Robert, in the name of the LORD Jesus Christ.