COVENANTS
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And billions will perish because of it (Revelation 14:6-12), and you will have been responsible for many (not because you were in simple error of ignorance, but because when the truth came to you, you refused to look at it (being hypocrite, since you click on links to get to this forum, but refuse to click on links that demonstrate in evidence and show the WTS and yourself in error), refused to conform to it and believed and practiced the traditions of men over the Law of JEHOVAH).
Joh_3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Act_5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Heb_5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Act_5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another
Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide
you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Psa 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another
Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide
you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Psa 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.
Heb_5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
This is not said in cruelty. It is said in great sorrow of heart and sadness. You will die Robert (Romans 6:23; 1 John 3:4; Revelation 21:8; 1 John 2:4), not because I desire it (Ezekiel 18:32, 33:11), but, it is foretold, for you have loved delusion and so cling to the lie of the devil (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12) rather than obey the truth of JEHOVAH.
It surely does:
According to scripture, there is "one faith" (Ephesians 4:5).
According to scripture, there is a "remnant" (Revelation 12:17).
According to scripture, that "remnant" came out the wilderness after their prophetic time there (Revelation 12:6,14-17; Song of Solomon 3:6, 8:5).
According to scripture the "church of the living God", is the "pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Timothy 3:15).
According to scripture, they have the "everlasting gospel" which is preached for a "witness" in "all the world" (Matthew 24:14), teaching all nations (Matthew 28:19-20), which brings the final harvest (Revelation 14:1-20) by the very "angels" (Matthew 13:39; Revelation 14:6-12).
According to scripture, they "keep the commandments of God" (Revelation 12:17, 14:6-7,12), which includes the sabbath commandment (Revelation 14:7,12; Exodus 20:11).
According to scripture, they have "the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).
According to scripture, they have "testimony of Jesus Christ" (Revelation 12:17), which is the "spirit of prophecy" (Revelation 19:10).
According to scripture, they would have the manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit among them (1 Corinthians 12-14; Ephesians 4).
According to scripture, they have a specific organization of the body of believers (Acts 15; 1 Timothy 3, etc).
According to scripture, they teach Jesus' and the Apostles doctrines (like state of the dead, Acts 2:29,34,42, 13:36, likeness of sinful flesh nature of Jesus (fallen flesh) Romans 8:3, the opposite of AntiChrist who denies that Jesus came in that flesh, 1 John 4:2,3; 2 John 1:7; &c).
According to scripture, they teach the Everlasting Gospel, that Jesus is "God manifest in the flesh" (1 Timothy 3:16).
According to scripture, they teach that Jesus died upon the Cross/Tree "t" (John 1:45, 5:39; Luke 24:27; Acts 3:18, 28:23; Deuteronomy 21:22-23; Galatians 3:13; Acts 5:30, 10:39; 1 Peter 2:24; Psalms 88:9; Romans 10:21; Matthew 27:38; Psalms 22:12-18; Matthew 27:37; John 20:25; Psalms 103:10-12; Zechariah 13:6; John 15:1,5; Hebrews 9:23 (Altar of burnt offering, Bronze Laver, Table of the Bread of the Presence, 7 Branch Lampstand, Altar of Incense, Ark of the Covenant); Acts 7:44; Exodus 26:30; Exodus 25:9,40; Numbers 8:4; 1 Chronicles 28:19; Ephesians 1:20; Hebrews 8:1-5, 9:11,24; Isaiah 28:16-17; Exodus 17:9-13; Judges 16; 2 Samuel 18:9-10,14; Isaiah 33:23,27:7; Numbers 21:8-9; John 3:14; and the very name of JEHOVAH itself, "יהוה", shows it, even as the "Aleph-Tav" shows it, see also Ezekiel 9:4; Exodus 12:7; Psalms 20:5, 60:4; Song of Solomon 2:4, 6:4,10; Numbers 1:51, 2:2,3,10,18,25; Isaiah 59:19, etc).
According to scripture, they teach to return tithe (Malachi 3; Hebrews 7; 1 Corinthians 15:20,23; James 1:18; Revelation 14:4, etc).
According to scripture, they teach that all the health laws of God since Genesis remain to be obeyed (Acts 10-11, 15:20; Romans 1:24, 6:19, 12:1-2; 1 Corinthians 6:13, 10:31; 2 Corinthians 6:17; Philippians 3:19; Ephesians 5:5; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:7; 1 Peter 1:15-16; 2 Peter 2:10; 3 John 1:2; Revelation 16:13, 18:2).
According to scripture there are wheat and tares, sheep and goats, wise and foolish in the church phase militant (Matthew 25, etc).
etc.
Therefore, not all persons who claim to be of the remnant are of the remnant, but many are of "Babylon" (Revelation 17).
Therefore, not all persons in Babylon are of Babylon (Revelation 17), but are of the fold of Christ, who must come out (Revelation 18:4) and join with the remnant (Revelation 12:17).
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Therefore there is the "visible" church (can be seen and identified on earth), and the "invisible" church (cannot yet be seen for they are amongst many, but God is now calling them out to join with us).
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Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
May I ask if you know who that was written to maam, and what their significance is?
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
As you can see by the verses it was Jehovah, however, He was not literally with Him here on earth. John 1:18 states that no man has ever seen God. Sometimes He sends angels in His behalf, sometimes He appears to humans in vision.
To help identify who the verses is speaking about that have removed Jehovah's name, when the LORD is all capitalized, that is where Jehovah's name is, therefore it is referring to him Re.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
You did good till this point Re, which nullifies your faith:
According to scripture, they teach the Everlasting Gospel, that Jesus is "God manifest in the flesh" (1 Timothy 3:16).
You see sir the Bible does not say that. The previous verses clearly indicate that Jesus is the one being spoken of, and with a little research it is easy to see that the translators of your version added the word God in that verse, as it is not found in the surviving manuscripts the Bible was translated from.
Because Sinaiticus was among the oldest original-language manuscripts, it not only revealed that the Greek Scriptures had remained essentially unchanged but also helped scholars to uncover errors that had crept into later manuscripts. For example, the reference to Jesus at 1 Timothy 3:16 in Sinaiticus reads: “He was made manifest in the flesh.” In place of “he,” the majority of then-known manuscripts showed an abbreviation for “God,” made by a small alteration of the Greek word for “he.” However, Sinaiticus was made many years before any Greek manuscript reading “God.” Thus, it revealed that there had been a later corruption of the text, evidently introduced to support the Trinity doctrine.
Isn't it amazing that a Jehovah's Witness, even disfellowshipped of the WTS itself, which claims that Roman Catholicism is Babylon, tries to justify their belief by a Catholic Codice, born of the bowels of the "desert", like Vaticanus (Codex B) was of the "secret chambers" (Matthew 24:26)? What hilarity, what incredulity, what hypocrisy, what asininity!
The evidence against Sinaiticus (codex Aleph) is overwhelming. First and foremost it is not a 3rd - 4th century codex. It's a fraud, with literally thousands of "emendations" by multiple scribes hands. You won't bother (as you admit) with the evidence, so I post it for others who are not blinded nor leashed by the WTS (traditions of men).
Playlist 37 videos proving Sinaiticus (Codex Aleph) is a fraud, being created by Simonides.
Playlist 15 videos.
MSS (Manuscripts, Codice, Papyrus, Lectionary, etc) evidence:
"... Aleph-c, A-c, C-2, D-2, K, L, P, Psi [also in "A" and "C" as seen by H. C. Hoskier, and F.H.A. Scrivener]
Cursives: MAJORITY
vulgate-ms
Also extant in 056, 061, 075, 0142, 0150, 0151, 0241. ... In fact, the most careful of scholars, H. C. Hoskier believed the first hand of Palimpsest C read "God", and of Codex A, F.H.A. Scrivener wrote during the latter nineteenth century:
"Cod. A, however, I have examined at least twenty times within as many years ... seeing (as every one must see for himself) with Berriman and the earlier collators that Cod A read THEOS ... the evidence of Young, of Huish, of Mill, of Berriman and his friends, when the page was comparatively unworn, cannot thus be disposed of (Plain Introduction, pp 639-640 note)."
... According to Scrivener, it is quoted by some of the very earliest fathers as Ignatius (110) and Hippolytus (235). Of the more than 250 cursive manuscripts containing I Timothy, Theos is found in all but two or three." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V. by Jack Moorman, page 135
Cursives: MAJORITY
vulgate-ms
Also extant in 056, 061, 075, 0142, 0150, 0151, 0241. ... In fact, the most careful of scholars, H. C. Hoskier believed the first hand of Palimpsest C read "God", and of Codex A, F.H.A. Scrivener wrote during the latter nineteenth century:
"Cod. A, however, I have examined at least twenty times within as many years ... seeing (as every one must see for himself) with Berriman and the earlier collators that Cod A read THEOS ... the evidence of Young, of Huish, of Mill, of Berriman and his friends, when the page was comparatively unworn, cannot thus be disposed of (Plain Introduction, pp 639-640 note)."
... According to Scrivener, it is quoted by some of the very earliest fathers as Ignatius (110) and Hippolytus (235). Of the more than 250 cursive manuscripts containing I Timothy, Theos is found in all but two or three." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V. by Jack Moorman, page 135
Evidences, even in Lectionaries:
"... NOTES: "God was made apparent in the flesh"
EVIDENCE: Se A2 C2 Dc K L P Psi 81 104 614 630 1241 1739 1881 2495 Byz Lect ..." - Textual Variants: 1 & 2 Timothy, Philemon
EVIDENCE: Se A2 C2 Dc K L P Psi 81 104 614 630 1241 1739 1881 2495 Byz Lect ..." - Textual Variants: 1 & 2 Timothy, Philemon
Another testimony and evidence by Will Kinney:
"... "GOD was manifest in the flesh" is the reading of other uncial copies as well including K, L, P, Psi. It is the reading found in the early Byzantine Lectionaries, the Georgian and Slavonic ancient versions and is so quoted by numerous early Christian writers. ...
In his book, The Revision Revised, Dean Burgon (pages 450, 454, 489-90) also cites the Georgian (6th century), Harkleian Syriac (616 AD) and the Slavonic (9th cent.) versions as reading "God." The fathers in support of this passage are as follows (Burgon, p 486-90):
Hippolytus (170-236 A.D.) "God was manifested in the flesh." (Against the Heresies of Noetus I: 1:17), and Dionysius (3rd cent.) "For God was manifested in the flesh." (Conciliations I: 1:853)
"GOD was manifest in the flesh" is also the reading of the Greek texts of Ximenes, Erasmus, Stephanus 1550, Beza 1598, Elzevir 1624, Scrivener 1894 and the Hodges and Farstad Majority Text Greek New Testament 1982. It IS the Reformation text.
" - Another King James Bible Believer
In his book, The Revision Revised, Dean Burgon (pages 450, 454, 489-90) also cites the Georgian (6th century), Harkleian Syriac (616 AD) and the Slavonic (9th cent.) versions as reading "God." The fathers in support of this passage are as follows (Burgon, p 486-90):
1st Century: Ignatius (90 AD); 2nd Century: Hippolytus (190 AD); 3rd Century: Apostolic Constitutions, Epistle ascribed to Dionysius of Alexandria (264 AD), Gregory Thaumaturgus; 4th Century: Basil the Great (355 AD), Chrysostom (380 AD), Didymus (325 AD), Diodorus (370 AD), Gregory of Nazianzus (355 AD), Gregory of Nyssa (370 AD). "Euthalian" chapter title of I Tim. 3, attesting to "God in the flesh."; 5th Century: Anon. citation in works of Athanasius (430 AD), Cyril of Alexandria (410 AD), Euthalius (458 AD), Macedonius 11(496 AD), Theodoret (420 AD); 6th Century: Severus, Bishop of Antioch (512 AD); 8th Century: Epiphanius of Catana (787 AD), John Damascene (730 AD), Theodorus Studita (790 AD); 10th Century: Ecumenius (990 AD); 11th Century: Theophylact (1077 AD); 12th Century: Euthymius (1116 AD).
Hippolytus (170-236 A.D.) "God was manifested in the flesh." (Against the Heresies of Noetus I: 1:17), and Dionysius (3rd cent.) "For God was manifested in the flesh." (Conciliations I: 1:853)
"GOD was manifest in the flesh" is also the reading of the Greek texts of Ximenes, Erasmus, Stephanus 1550, Beza 1598, Elzevir 1624, Scrivener 1894 and the Hodges and Farstad Majority Text Greek New Testament 1982. It IS the Reformation text.
" - Another King James Bible Believer
Additional ECF (so called Early Church Fathers) mention:
"... GREGORY OF NYSSA, Against Eunomius (III 5:101,155,176,232) ..." - Early Church Fathers And The Authorized Version, by Jack Moorman, page 57
The earliest attested collators of the codex, all attest to "THEOS":
"... Patrick Young was the first to collate Codex A (1628-1652) and it is certain that he read “Theos” (God). For Young transmitted this reading to Archbishop Ussher, who in turn passed this reading on to Hammond before 1653. It is certain that the scholar Huish read “Theos” in Codex A when he sent his collation to Brian Walton, who published his New Testament in 1657. In 1659 Bishop Pearson unquestionably read “Theos” when he made the statement, “we find not os (who) in any copy”. Then 16 years later (i.e. 1675) Bishop Fell further witnessed to the fact that Codex A reads “Theos” when he published his New Testament. Another individual, Mill, who worked on the New Testament from 1677 to 1707 declares that he read “Theos” in this place in the MS. Another who collated Codex A, Bentley (1716), knew no other reading than “Theos” in 1 Timothy 3:16. Still yet, one of the most resounding testimonies was made by Wooton in 1718:
In 1716 Wetstein relayed to the Rev. John Kippax that someone had apparently “retouched” the middle stroke of the Q but that the original stroke of the Q could still be seen protruding from each end of the correctors stroke. In addition to this Berriman, who gave Lectures on the authentic reading of 1 Timothy 3:16 in 1737-1738, reached the following conclusion,
Many others who examined the Codex also testified that it read “Theos”, however, so as not to abuse the patience of my readers I shall only mention two more. Perhaps one of the greatest and most learned scholars of all time, F. H. A. Scrivener, had this to say concerning Codex A:
The next and last witness we shall call is Adam Clarke. In his commentary on this verse Clarke makes the following observation:
“There can be no doubt” (he says) “that this MS. always exhibited QC [remember the horizontal line over the leters]. Of this, any one may easily convince himself who will be at the pains to examine the place with attention (Burgon citing Wooton, Revision Revised, p. 433).” [words in brackets mine]
In 1716 Wetstein relayed to the Rev. John Kippax that someone had apparently “retouched” the middle stroke of the Q but that the original stroke of the Q could still be seen protruding from each end of the correctors stroke. In addition to this Berriman, who gave Lectures on the authentic reading of 1 Timothy 3:16 in 1737-1738, reached the following conclusion,
“If therefore” (he adds) “at any time hereafter the old line should become altogether undiscoverable, there will never be just cause to doubt but that the genuine, and original reading of the MS. was QC: and that the new strokes, added at the top and in the middle by the corrector were not designed to corrupt and falsify, but to preserve and perpetuate the true reading, which was in danger of being lost by the decay of Time (Burgon citing Berriman (1741), Revision Revised, p. 433).”
Many others who examined the Codex also testified that it read “Theos”, however, so as not to abuse the patience of my readers I shall only mention two more. Perhaps one of the greatest and most learned scholars of all time, F. H. A. Scrivener, had this to say concerning Codex A:
I have examined Codex A at least twenty times within as many years and seeing (as every one must) with my own eyes, I have always felt convinced that it reads QC (Scrivener, Introduction, p.553)
The next and last witness we shall call is Adam Clarke. In his commentary on this verse Clarke makes the following observation:
This is very frequent in the oldest MSS., and is continually recurring in the Codex Bexae, and Codex Alexandrinus. If, therefore, the middle stroke of the “Theta”, in “Theos”, happened to be faint, or obliterated, and the dash above not very apparent, both of which I have observed in ancient MSS., then QC, the contraction for “Theos”, God, might be mistaken for “os” which or who; and vice versa. This appears to have been the case in the Codex Alexandrinus, in this passage. To me there is ample reason to believe that the Codex Alexandrinus originally read “Theos”, God, in this place; but the stroke becoming faint by length of time and injudicious handling, of which the MS. in this place has had a large proportion, some person has supplied the place, most reprehensibly, with a thick black line. This has destroyed the evidence of this MS., as now it can neither be quoted pro or con, though it is very likely that the person who supplied the ink line, did it from a conscientious conviction that “Theos” was the original reading of this MS. I examined this MS. about thirty years ago, and this was the conviction that rested then on my mind. I have seen the MS. several times since, and have not changed my opinion. The enemies of the Deity of Christ have been at as much pains to destroy the evidence afforded by the common reading in support of this doctrine as if this text were the only one by which it can be supported; they must be aware that John 1:1, and 14, proclaim the same truth; and that in those verses there is no authority to doubt the genuineness of the reading. We read, therefore, God was manifested in the flesh, and I cannot see what good sense can be taken out of, the GOSPEL was manifested in the flesh; or, the mystery of godliness was manifested in the flesh. After seriously considering this subject in every point of light, I hold with the reading in the commonly received text (Adam Clarke, Clarke’s Commentary, Vol. 8, ppg.151-152). ..." - 1tim3-16
You can read why there were false readings here:
"... This, then, is the whole crux of the matter concerning 1 Timothy 3:16, for a scant handful of manuscripts are missing the horizontal lines, thus APPEARING to form the word "who" instead of "Theos." This scant handful of manuscripts missing the horizontal lines are in opposition to WELL OVER THREE HUNDRED MANUSCRIPTS THAT CONTAIN the horizontal lines, and which therefore testify unmistakably to Theos, or "God".
Furthermore, the scant few manuscripts missing the horizontal lines creates a SEVERE grammatical problem, for the Greek word OS (without the horizontal lines, which means "who") is a masculine relative pronoun that ends up modifying a NEUTER noun - in this case the noun "mystery." Significantly, this is not only HORRIBLE GREEK GRAMMAR, but the resulting clause ends up containing A PREDICATE WITHOUT A SUBJECT -- I say, the RESULTING CLAUSE ENDS UP CONTAINING A PREDICATE WITHOUT A SUBJECT -- which is of course ABSURD. ..." - Lamb Lion Net
Furthermore, the scant few manuscripts missing the horizontal lines creates a SEVERE grammatical problem, for the Greek word OS (without the horizontal lines, which means "who") is a masculine relative pronoun that ends up modifying a NEUTER noun - in this case the noun "mystery." Significantly, this is not only HORRIBLE GREEK GRAMMAR, but the resulting clause ends up containing A PREDICATE WITHOUT A SUBJECT -- I say, the RESULTING CLAUSE ENDS UP CONTAINING A PREDICATE WITHOUT A SUBJECT -- which is of course ABSURD. ..." - Lamb Lion Net
The evidence for THEOC (THEOS) from Dean Burgon is seen in his book here:
"... Lastly it is condemned by internal considerations. "Os is in truth so grossly improbable--rather, so impossible--a reading ..."
- The Revision Revised
David Otis Fuller, also:- The Revision Revised
"...See also Fuller, citing the TBS, (32) p 24A1. The TBS, ibid, state that all the early Greek editions of the New Testament (Ximenes, Erasmus, Beza, Stephens-see Berry's Greek text, the Elzevirs) read "God was manifest in the flesh" and hence this must have been the reading of the manuscripts available to those editors. The wording of their editions is reflected in all the early English translations (Tyndale 1534, Great Bible 1539, Geneva 1557," ...
The extant cursive copies of Paul's letters number 300, of which 254 (designated "Paul 1" to "Paul 301") contain 1 Tim. 3:16. Of these, no less than 252 read "God," in agreement with this passage. (The two exceptions, which have already been discussed, are "Paul 17" and "Paul 73," of which the latter is a doubtful witness.) Added to this favourable testimony are 29 out of 32 Lectionary copies from the Eastern Church, reaching back to earliest times t.e. before Aleph, which support the reading "God." (Burgon, p 478, declares the 3 exceptions to be "Western documents of suspicious character.") " - Manuscript Evidence for Disputed Verses
That the WTS and yourself reject Jesus as Deity (God, of John 1:1c; Genesis 1:7 & chapter 17, etc), is your own personal error.The extant cursive copies of Paul's letters number 300, of which 254 (designated "Paul 1" to "Paul 301") contain 1 Tim. 3:16. Of these, no less than 252 read "God," in agreement with this passage. (The two exceptions, which have already been discussed, are "Paul 17" and "Paul 73," of which the latter is a doubtful witness.) Added to this favourable testimony are 29 out of 32 Lectionary copies from the Eastern Church, reaching back to earliest times t.e. before Aleph, which support the reading "God." (Burgon, p 478, declares the 3 exceptions to be "Western documents of suspicious character.") " - Manuscript Evidence for Disputed Verses
The "whole law".
[1] the Greatest Law - Love (self Sacrifice) - John 15:13
[2] Love explained, Love God, Love Neighbour - Matthew 22:40; Mark 12:31; Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:17-18, etc
[3] Love God and Love Neighbour explained/expanded, The Ten Commandments - Exodus 20:1-17; Deuteronomy 5:6-21; Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13, 10:4.
[2] Love explained, Love God, Love Neighbour - Matthew 22:40; Mark 12:31; Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:17-18, etc
[3] Love God and Love Neighbour explained/expanded, The Ten Commandments - Exodus 20:1-17; Deuteronomy 5:6-21; Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13, 10:4.
Psa_119:96 I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.
Those are the only enumerated (numbered) laws in scripture.
Sure.
Mat_24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Luk_17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk_17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Old world:
2Pe_2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
Psa_119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
Gen 7:4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
Psa_119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
Gen 7:4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
Even Adam Clarke sees the same:
"... For yet seven days - God spoke these words probably on the seventh or Sabbath day..."
Gen 7:10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
Our World:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
1Jn_2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
1Jn_2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
In the end times (which we are in), God desires that all men repent, and Keep His Sabbath, the 7th day, the Lord's day, holy:
Act 4:24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
Act 14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
Act 14:16 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.
Act_17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Act 14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
Act 14:16 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.
Act_17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Thus, as it is in the days of the Son of man, so it was in Noah's day. They transgressed the Sabbath too. Matthew and Luke also connect the type in Sodom and Gomorrah, "bought", "sold", "planted", "builded". When is it evil to do those things?
Another example, Jerusalem of old. See Ezekiel 20. It was the reason God allowed Jerusalem to be destroyed by fire (Nebuchadnezzar II), and the people killed by the sword, famine (siege, no food), pestilence, and even a fire came into the remnant.
Then another example in the NT, in the days of the Apostles, in AD 70. They broke the sabbath too, and would not repent of their sins (Mark 7:9, etc), and thus they too were destroyed by fire, crucifixion, sword, famine, pestilence.
You have your examples. Trample the Son of Father, and the Father's gift at your own peril. Because of Sin and Death, the Father provided the way out, and Jesus, rested in His death in the sealed tomb, upon the Sabbath. For He had finished the work on earth given Him to do of the Father.
Heb_10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
You have the examples in scripture.
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John 1:18 doesn't say that no man has seen God (period). Read again. If you need help, let me know. See also John 6:46 (same author). I have many other such texts to disprove your personal translation error.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
You are like these that Moses spake of:
Exo 4:1 And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice: for they will say, The LORD hath not appeared unto thee.
JEHOVAH (the Person/Being of the Son, for in the OT, He is known as 'Jesus JEHOVAH') appeared on earth (that is descended from Heaven) and spake with Abraham in Genesis 17, and with Moses in Exodus 3-4, etc.
Btw, Daniel, and others (like John) saw the Father in Heaven, see Daniel 7; Revelation 4-5, etc, and also the Son (same chapters). Even according to WTS NWT:
"... someone like a son of man x ..."
"... x Mt 24:30; Lu 21:27; Joh 3:13; Ac 7:56; Re 14:14 ..."
"... x Mt 24:30; Lu 21:27; Joh 3:13; Ac 7:56; Re 14:14 ..."
“... 9 I kept watching until thrones were set in place and the Ancient of Days o sat down ..."
"... he gained access to the Ancient of Days, y ..."
"... y ... Ps 90:2; Da 7:9; Da 7:22; Hab 1:12 ..."
"... he gained access to the Ancient of Days, y ..."
"... y ... Ps 90:2; Da 7:9; Da 7:22; Hab 1:12 ..."
"... 22 until the Ancient of Days n ..."
"... n Ps 90:2; Da 7:9; Da 7:13; Hab 1:12 ...
Psalm 90:2
General
2 Before the mountains were bornOr you brought forth the earth and the productive land,From everlasting to everlasting, you are God.
Daniel 7:9
General
9 “I kept watching until thrones were set in place and the Ancient of Days sat down. His clothing was white like snow, and the hair of his head was like clean wool. His throne was flames of fire; its wheels were a burning fire.
Daniel 7:13
General
13 “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One.
Habakkuk 1:12
General
12 Are you not from everlasting, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die. O Jehovah, you appointed them to execute judgment;My Rock, you established them for punishment. ..." - https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/daniel/7/#v27007022
"... n Ps 90:2; Da 7:9; Da 7:13; Hab 1:12 ...
Psalm 90:2
General
2 Before the mountains were bornOr you brought forth the earth and the productive land,From everlasting to everlasting, you are God.
Daniel 7:9
General
9 “I kept watching until thrones were set in place and the Ancient of Days sat down. His clothing was white like snow, and the hair of his head was like clean wool. His throne was flames of fire; its wheels were a burning fire.
Daniel 7:13
General
13 “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One.
Habakkuk 1:12
General
12 Are you not from everlasting, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die. O Jehovah, you appointed them to execute judgment;My Rock, you established them for punishment. ..." - https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/daniel/7/#v27007022
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That no flesh should glory in His presence.
.. But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus,
.... Who of God is made unto us
...... wisdom, and
........ righteousness, and
.......... sanctification, and
............ redemption:
That, according as it is written,
.. He that glorieth,
.... let Him glory in the Lord.'
(1Cor. 1:29-30)
Hello there, @Robert Gwin,
This is obviously written to the believers at Corinth, so that is not what you can be referring to. Within the immediate context, the reading of 1 Corinthians 1:18-30 in which Paul contrasts the wisdom of God with that of man. Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain your question, and tell me what you believe to be the significance of this passage.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
I did warn you sir, if you continue to make accusations about my faith, we have nothing to talk about. Unless you have a serious question, I will no longer respond to your posts. I will read them, and if there is a legitimate point I can clear up for you I will not respond.
[1] Do you know why it requires Deity (God) taking upon Himself the nature of mankind to be saved from sin?
[2] Do you know why no created being (no matter how ancient or exalted) could ever 'pay' for the sins of mankind?
[3] Do you know what the Bible says about creation (created beings) in relation to the Creator that makes it impossible for a created being to be the Saviour of the race of mankind?
What was the shape of the instrument by which Jesus was Crucified by the Romans?, in other words, was it in the shape of the T[au], t[ee], the 'x', 'y', or was it merely an single upright stake/pole/pallisade, or something else? Scripture tells us:
We can know for certain that the Scriptures point us to Christ Jesus, for it is written:
Psalms 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
John 5:39 - Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Luke 24:27 - And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
John 1:45 - Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
Acts 28:23 - And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Acts 3:18 - But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
Luke 24:27 - And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
John 1:45 - Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
Acts 28:23 - And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Acts 3:18 - But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
Let us notice that Acts 3:18, speaks that “all of his [God's] prophets” foretold that “Christ should suffer”. This means we ought to be able to go to the Old Testament to see if it speaks of this suffering, and manner by which Jesus would die. We shall then also consider the New Testament texts, which are built upon the foundation of the Old Testament texts.
"According to scripture, they teach that Jesus died upon the Cross/Tree "t" (John 1:45, 5:39; Luke 24:27; Acts 3:18, 28:23; Deuteronomy 21:22-23; Galatians 3:13; Acts 5:30, 10:39; 1 Peter 2:24; Psalms 88:9; Romans 10:21; Matthew 27:38; Psalms 22:12-18; Matthew 27:37; John 20:25; Psalms 103:10-12; Zechariah 13:6; John 15:1,5; Hebrews 9:23 (Altar of burnt offering, Bronze Laver, Table of the Bread of the Presence, 7 Branch Lampstand, Altar of Incense, Ark of the Covenant); Acts 7:44; Exodus 26:30; Exodus 25:9,40; Numbers 8:4; 1 Chronicles 28:19; Ephesians 1:20; Hebrews 8:1-5, 9:11,24; Isaiah 28:16-17; Exodus 17:9-13; Judges 16; 2 Samuel 18:9-10,14; Isaiah 33:23,27:7; Numbers 21:8-9; John 3:14; and the very name of JEHOVAH itself, "יהוה", shows it, even as the "Aleph-Tav" shows it, see also Ezekiel 9:4; Exodus 12:7; Psalms 20:5, 60:4; Song of Solomon 2:4, 6:4,10; Numbers 1:51, 2:2,3,10,18,25; Isaiah 59:19, etc)."
Psa 77:13 Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?
You see, JEHOVAH actually left us a 'picture', worth more than all the words of fallible men of the WTS:
The very places of the Sanctuary itself, demonstrate the pattern of Jesus suffering and sacrifice.
Beginning at the outer court, we have the Altar of Burnt Offering. Moving from there, we come to the Laver of Blood/Water. From thence in the outer court, we move through the veil into the Holy Place of the Sanctuary, and immediately to our right hand is the Table of Shew Bread, and to our left is then the 7 Branch Golden Candlestick, and ahead of us is the Altar of Incense. Moving past these, through the second veil, into the Most Holy Place, we come to the Ark of the Covenant and the Law of God therein. These are in the Pattern of the Cross itself.
In each place, Christ Jesus received a wound.
[1] Altar of Burnt Offering – Jesus was pierced in the Feet, by a nail.
[2] Laver of Blood Water – Jesus was pierced in His Side, by a spear, out then came blood and water.
[3] Table of Shew Bread – Jesus was pierced in the Right Hand, by a nail.
[4] 7 Branch Golden Candlestick – Jesus was pierced in the Left Hand, by a nail.
[5] Altar of Incense – Jesus died of a Broken Heart, wounded by the sin/s of mankind.
[6] Ark of the Covenant – Jesus was pierced in the Head, by the Crown of Thorns He wore.
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Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Straight from our Bible sir:
(Matthew 24:37-39) . . .just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be.
Another example sir?
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
See the distinction, we say no man can see God and yet live. You disagree, simple as that Re.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
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