Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

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Kermos

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I didn't see any reason to go to the Scripture, because that isn't going to change your mind. But, since you did actually state its impossible, I will make the time to share it for other's sakes. I'll put a link here when I get it done. There is scriptural record of TWO things that God said would happen, that DID NOT end up happening at all. And, the reason they didn't happen, was because David exercised the free will God gave him.

Your first sentence conveys that you do not believe the Word of God is capable of saving man, so you serve a weak god, and your writing is very confused.

The Word of God is good unto salvation (Romans 1:16).

I know that the Word of God is strong enough to save people at Lord Jesus' exclusive discretion (Matthew 19:25-26), even persons that are lost in the free-will precepts of men (Matthew 15:9)

"When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, 'Then who can be saved?' And looking at them, Jesus said to them, 'With people this is impossible, but with God all thingsare possible.'” (Matthew 19:25-26)

Still, you make no scriptural argument that man thwarted God's plan.

I'll tell you why you didn't, because it is written Job said to YHWH "no purpose of Yours can be thwarted" (Job 42:2).

Freewill precepts of men lead to worship in vain for the Lord Jesus says "in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men" (Matthew 15:9).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.
 
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Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
Not that what you think and see is what scriptures says.

If you cannot see the choice in the commandment in Gen.2:16-17, that is your problem, not mine. I am not adding to scriptures. You are just missing out and in denial. I would guess you would deny that man, even Jesus, have a will.

Consider this a simple commandment to you, love God with all your heart, mind, and soul. Do you see the word “choice” in there? Nope.

Do you want to obey that or do you want to not obey it? Do you have the will to obey it or do you not have the will to obey it?

Tong
R3794
The word "choose" is not in 'and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying"' (Genesis 2:16-17), so you are adding choice into the Word of God; furthermore, a command of God is obeyed or disobeyed, so an action occurs, not a choice without explicit expression in the command of God, but fruit occurs.

You guess wrong about "will" for Lord Jesus prayed "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done" (Luke 22:42).

Lord Jesus did NOT say a person chooses in "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind" (Matthew 22:37) for this is a command again just as Genesis 2:16-17 is a command.

Lord Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3), so a person cannot love God without a person being born again in the Spirit of God.

After a person is born again in the Spirit of God, then such a person has a new heart that loves God.

This very love is manifest as wrought in God for the Lord Jesus says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

Blessed be the Name of the Lord Yeshua Who converts us children of God into children of God! He is merciful, and He is gracious!

You just added that Adam had a choice into the Word of God recorded in Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24.

Furthermore, you just subtracted the Apostle Paul's writing that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree because Paul conveyed that nothing in creation willingly subjected anyting in creation to futility with Paul's writing of "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

If one looks at the content of your posts , one will easily see that it is filled with accusations of adding and subtracting. And your argument seems to only be that on whether there is the word “choice” or there is none such as stated below.

<<<The word "choose" is not in 'and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying"' (Genesis 2:16-17), >>>

So? There are many commandments where the word “choose” isn’t there. Like in the ten commandments. With your line of reasoning, keeping them or not keeping them isn’t a choice, right? So the conclusion? No free will.

<<<You guess wrong about "will" for Lord Jesus prayed "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done" (Luke 22:42).>>>

So, it seems you at least think that Jesus have a will. But with your line of reasoning perhaps, His will is not about making choices, right? For the word “choice” is not there nor it is free will because the word “free” is not there either.

With regards Adam not willingly eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, with your line of reasoning, and with the reference scriptures you cited, the word “eat” is not in Romans 8:20-22, nor is the name of “Adam” mentioned that. With your line of concluding, you have added to the passage those words, right?

Tong
R3867
 

Taken

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Your spurious argument that "mind of a babe" differs from "mind of an infant" is moot.

You add freewill where freewill does not exist

You just added "choosing" when you wrote "Adam CHOOSING Names for the Animals" into the word recorded in Genesis 2:19-20.

NO SCRIPTURE STATES ADAM HAD A FREEWILL.

YOU CANNOT PROVIDE A SCRIPTURE THAT STATES ADAM HAD A FREEWILL, SO YOU WICKEDLY ADD FREEWILL FOR ADAM INTO SCRIPTURE WHERE FREEWILL FOR ADAM DOES NOT EXIST.

ADAM NAMING THE BEASTS AND BIRDS DOES NOT INDICATE ABILITY TO CHOOSE GOD UNTO ETERNAL LIFE.

A PERSON SAVED FROM THE WRATH OF GOD DOES NOT ADD TO NOR SUBTRACT FROM THE SCRIPTURE.

Furthermore, you just subtracted the Apostle Paul's writing that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree because Paul conveyed that nothing in creation willingly subjected anyting in creation to futility with Paul's writing of "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

You think your word is so very important that you dictate to God as you add to and subtract from scripture.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

I received a little notice, "you had quoted me", Yet, when I opened the "notice"...
Not one of my "quotes" appeared.

For future reference;
You do not need to pretend you are "quoting me" to exercise your FREEWILL by posting a long list of accusations toward me.

:p
 

Kermos

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There is the answer, Kermos.

Not one, but TWO things God "forknew "....that never happened at all....

You failed to examine the passage properly before you levied your evil accusation of "So, in spite of God's perfect foreknowledge, Saul never besieged Keilah, and the men of Keilah never handed David over to Saul. God "forknew two things...that never happened" (your words) against God.

First, regarding Saul coming down to Keilah, that process of Saul's travel was currently underway when the Word of God said "He comes down" (1 Samuel 23:11, there are translations that render this as "He will come down", but it is accurate as "He comes down" according to the Hebrew grammar and when the preceding verses alight context).

In a nearby earlier verse, it is written "So Saul summoned all the people for war, to go down to Keilah to besiege David and his men" (1 Samuel 23:11), so Saul was making way for Keilah.

Your deception regarding your first point in 1 Samuel 23 is exposed.

Second, regarding the men of Keilah surrendering David and David's men to Saul, again the Word of God reveals the intention of the hearts of the men of Keilah with "They are surrendering you" (1 Samuel 23:12, there are translations that render this as "They will surrender you", but it is accurate as "They are surrendering you" according to the Hebrew grammar and when the subsequent verses alight context).

Scriptural evidence shows that the men of Keilah were adversarial to David and David's men for it is written "David had escaped from Keilah" (1 Samuel 23:13). That is not merely departed from Keilah as if amicably, but that is ESCAPED from Keilah.

The men of Keilah's adversarial relationship to David appears to have included the men of Keilah colluding with Saul AT THE TIME THAT THE WORD OF GOD SAID TO DAVID "THEY ARE SURRENDERING YOU" (1 Samuel 23:13).

Your deception regarding your second point in 1 Samuel 23 is exposed.

The Word of God declared events in progress in these passages.

The Word of God did not state that Saul would successfully arrive at Keilah.

The Word of God did not state that the men of Keilah would successfully deliver David and David's men into the hands of Saul.

On the other hand, in this passage, God's foreknowledge is shown to be true because the Word of God did state that David would successfully conquer the Philistines who were fighting against Keilah.

The Word of God commanded "Arise, go down to Keilah, for I will give the Philistines into your hand" (1 Samuel 23:4), and there is prophecy by God about a future event.

Subsequently, it is written "So David and his men went to Keilah and fought with the Philistines; and he led away their livestock and struck them with a great slaughter. Thus David delivered the inhabitants of Keilah" (1 Samuel 23:4), and that is a proper example of God's foreknowledge. The prophecy was fulfilled!

Not only do you miserably fail in your endeavor to prove that God's foreknowledge is fallible, but you have successfully proven that you do not know who God says that God is.

God knows all things (John 16:30), and no one can thwart that which God knows will come to pass (Job 42:2).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.
 
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Renniks

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You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? T
Who is " you" here?
Paul doesn't say we can not resist God, you do!
Paul says we can answer back to God.
You say we can't.
You are the kind of person Paul was talking about!
The kind who twists what God has said into fatalism.
 
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Kermos

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@Taken, this response is to your post, and I had to include this paragraph because you fouled up your response resulting in this site's quoting mechanism preventing the display of your fouled up post's quotation.

The "mind of a babe" is the same thing as a "mind of an infant". For example, here are two English translations of the same verse, one uses "infants" while the other "babes":

Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation (1 Peter 2:2, ESV)

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby (1 Peter 2:2, KJV)

Your spurious argument that "mind of a babe" differs from "mind of an infant" is moot.

You add freewill where freewill does not exist in "Out of the ground the LORDGod formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him" (Genesis 2:19-20).

You just added "choosing" when you wrote "Adam CHOOSING Names for the Animals" into the word recorded in Genesis 2:19-20.

The Hebrew word בָּחר (choose in English) is NOT in the word recorded in Genesis 2:19-20, so you are adding בָּחר (choose in English).

NO SCRIPTURE STATES ADAM HAD A FREEWILL.

YOU CANNOT PROVIDE A SCRIPTURE THAT STATES ADAM HAD A FREEWILL, SO YOU WICKEDLY ADD FREEWILL FOR ADAM INTO SCRIPTURE WHERE FREEWILL FOR ADAM DOES NOT EXIST.

ADAM NAMING THE BEASTS AND BIRDS DOES NOT INDICATE ABILITY TO CHOOSE GOD UNTO ETERNAL LIFE.

A PERSON SAVED FROM THE WRATH OF GOD DOES NOT ADD TO NOR SUBTRACT FROM THE SCRIPTURE.

Furthermore, you just subtracted the Apostle Paul's writing that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree because Paul conveyed that nothing in creation willingly subjected anyting in creation to futility with Paul's writing of "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

You think your word is so very important that you dictate to God as you add to and subtract from scripture.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.
 
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Kermos

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The Word of God is life (John 14:6).

Four for more posts on page 23 filled with the word of grumix8, and not one scripture citation to support freewill. That's a whole lot of your thoughts without the Word of God!

You thoughts that you control you being saved from the wrath of God in your freewill keep heaping up into your precepts of men that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

A word about your thoughts. It is written, "'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,' declares the LORD. 'For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27) - notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God's thoughts with man's thoughts, and that is evil.

We have made great analysis about freewill and the human consciousness part in how our actions decide your path. Freewill existed before creation and when Adam made mistake it also freewill, we have all learn but the most important we use it in our life for love and do good like G-d wants. Post let me find you that understanding Doug batchelor spoke about it and will find more information so you can understand the situation you find you can't understand.
Kermos you just say everything is wrong and your not wrong and your perfect try again young man because I see you make errors and have no recollection of them.
Nope your putting words in my mouth Kermos stop that it shows you don't have education shameful thing, and your just arguing and arguing for arguing sake. All you have posted means A different thing in hebrew not you mean stop paraphrasing Kermos. Your not G-d you a siple man who wants everything he's way.
Kermos you've been paraphrasing and puttin your own thoughts you have your pet indoctrination and it's not the same for all of us. Perhaps you should see things like back how Hebrew people in Abraham people said and talk.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.
 

grumix8

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You came all this way and with such great lengths try to argue just to argue. I came here and said freewill I showed with verses people decide and G-d decides that he lets us decided and destiny hasn't been written it can be change for us sinners. He doesn't force love he wants love to be sincere, you've written before and mistakes you make you don't recognize anything and you said to forget that post put lines on them so you see errors no no no. You have A promblem your always right and your not Kermos so Kermos wanna be taken seriously don't make so many errors and then dash erase them you don't know what your written you take to long.

Know freewill existed even before creation the devil made an error and he decided wrong. Adam made mistake proves he coudl fail and decison are amde the point that changes everything and your consciousness is the tool for it.
 

Kermos

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"Until now" doesn't mean forever.
If I say I've been hungry "until now", when food is available, you don't assume I've never eaten before.

And you don't understand Genesis if you think creation was subject to frustration before the fall.
God said it was all " very good". It could not be good if it was always corrupted.

Behold as @Renniks subtracts the Apostle Paul's literal words of "until now" (Romans 8:22) which means all times previous to Paul in "the whole creation" in:

the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now (Romans 8:20-22).

So, Adam did "not willingly" eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil subjecting creation to futility.

"Subjected to futility" (Romans 8:20) is not mutually exclusive from "very good" (Genesis 1:31), for behold:

Adam as part of God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world

SINCE God saw creation was very good on the 6th Day (Genesis 1:31)

AND God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind is very good (Ephesians 1:1-14,Ephesians 2:13)

THEN a free will Adam could not have been roaming the Garden of Eden with the ability to choose to obey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17)

SINCE the only command carrying a punishment was the prohibition upon Adam against eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

THUS a free will Adam could have disrupted God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind

SO God could not conclude with certainty by declaring everything was good on the sixth day with a free will Adam in control roaming the Garden of Eden

THEREFORE it follows that Adam could not be endowed with the attribute of free will

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.
 

grumix8

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your paraphrasing and still paraphrasing there kermos you say futility and your just twisting your words. Your just saying one thing and your not adding other things that go with G-d's creation and your not completing the rest of the scriptures that accompany by those theachings. Freewill is deciding and you have liberty tod ecide to do good or evil. simple as that and your just from one corner trying to disagree with everything.

You ahve flaws Kermos and you already showed them in this posts. ;D.
 

Kermos

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I subtracted nothing.
In context. We are given Knowledge.
The Knowledge is God Did Know us Before we were naturally born.
God Did Choose "First" Whom He Will,
WITHOUT a man having chosen Him.

* Did you hear, learn, believe, have faith...
And EVER Freely Choose Him?

Because in context, Once a man heartfully chooses God...Scripture notifies you, He acknowledges YOUR Election of choosing Him.

1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.



Gods Works granted are Powerful. However I highly doubt God had something to show me, via you. If God was showing you something, it more likely was for your benefit....
Like; for your consideration, IF you do not FREELY HEARTFULLY CHOOSE God, do you think instead God FORCES YOU to be With Him, Love Him, Submit to Him?



I am not subject to your Opinions.
I am well aware Of Gods CHOICE of me.
I am well aware WHEN God CHOSE me.
(Long before Mankind was created 6 + thousand years ago)
I am well aware of MY CHOICE of God.
I am well aware of WHEN MY CHOICE of God was made.
(decades ago).
Different entities, Different Choice, Different times.



Your accusation that I "subtracted" Scripture is False.
You are trying to apply a Scripture that no longer applies to me. Me choosing God, already has been fulfilled.

A precept from Ancient History.
Joshua 24:15
[15] And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but [/B] as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.[/B]

Glory to God,
Taken

When you wrote "God is all knowing. He knows a mans choice Before the man IS Born. God chooses a man 'WHO WILL CHOOSE HIM!!!!'",

then at that moment you subtracted "you did not choose Me" from the Word of God (John 15:16), and His statement is limitless to His glory in man's salvation!

JESUS PRESENTED NO EXCEPTIONS FOR "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME" (JOHN 15:16), yet you conjure up an exception based upon your precepts of men that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

You saying that you did not subtract "you did not choose Me" from the Word of God (John 15:16) does not change the fact that you did subtract those very words.

God had me show you the Word of God on God's exclusive choosing of man previously.

You do no receive the Word of God because you subtract from the Word of God.

The Word of God says "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

Lost persons claim that Joshua 24:15 indicates a person can choose God. The "choose" in Joshua 24:15 applies to false gods only. The "as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD" in Joshua 24:15 is an imperative, NOT an interogative, NOT a clause with Joshua "choosing" God, NOT "as for me and my house, we will choose to serve the LORD", but specifically a declaration of action which is "serve".

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.
 

Taken

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When you wrote "God is all knowing. He knows a mans choice Before the man IS Born. God chooses a man 'WHO WILL CHOOSE HIM!!!!'", [/B]

then at that moment you subtracted "you did not choose Me" from the Word of God (John 15:16)

Were "YOU" at the passover supper with Jesus, when He said EXPRESSLY TO HIS 12 Chosen Desciples...that HE CHOSE THEM?

Did you miss the teaching of Jesus' Choosing His 12 Disciples?

Running amuck out of context is on you, not me.
 

Kermos

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You have a problem of making errounous accusations because you DO NOT LISTEN.

Outside of the Garden Adam was CREATED AND MADE... WITHOUT "HIS" WILL
(* Gods creation and making of mankind WAS GODS WILL!!!!)
Once Adam was put in the Garden... Adam HAD FREEWILL, made his OWN CHOICES

That was clearly told you, Scriptural examples of Adam "freely choosing" given you...
SHEESH...



Some people need a course in Learning HOW TO Learn.


Your second and third paragraph lacks scriptural support; therefore, that is all the word of Taken, not the Word of God.

You keep adding "freely choosing" into the Word of God recorded in Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24.

Furthermore, you just subtracted the Apostle Paul's writing that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree because Paul conveyed that nothing in creation willingly subjected anyting in creation to futility with Paul's writing of "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.
 

grumix8

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You have made many accusations and nothing of love you say the word of taken now to incrimenate he is not A bible nor am I ot A prophet neither i'm i no one here. You have made it all the word of Kermos and he is absolute. That's all that's what you wanted accused everyone and be the accuser you and I know who is the accuser now in the bible. You don't need to share that you are G-d son and you must not be fighting and argue and bickering. The whole situation has been resolved there is freewill it existed and G-d gave it to us all of us make decisons and it is based on good and evil.

Those who show stubborness just dig thier ownhole and show they have no merit just anger. change your ways Kermos and loving to all and do not say he did that and did this but be the one who puts it in God's hand and not your own ;D.
 

Kermos

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Of course, just like the angels have free will. God doesn't wanted forced love and obedience. He wants us to Love Him freely with all our heart, mind and strength and also to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, loving them as yourself. Only those who do will be with Him for eternity, and it will be heaven! No devil. No sinners. No demons. No tears. No death.

1) No scripture states angels have free will, so you are adding to scripture.

2) Angels are not humans, and humans are not angels, so Adam is not an angel.

3) The angel Gabriel said "I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God" (Luke 1:19), so angels are or were in heaven at one point or another.

No scripture states Adam was imparted free will, so you just added free will into the Word of God recorded in Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24.

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.
 

grumix8

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devil was an angel and he disobeyed and decided wrong any being who has consciousness can do good or evil the devil is an example bad one.
 

Kermos

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You @post (since you assumed @Renniks position) are contradicting the Apostle Paul who wrote all time prior to the present with "until now" (Romans 8:20-22) or using what you submitted - prior to "right up to the present time" which means all God created was "very good" (Genesis 1:31) for the creation fits into God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world (see the original post).

Back to you contradicting Paul with your writing of "Not always" directly subtracting "until now" (Romans 8:22).

That "until now" (Romans 8:22) includes "the whole creation" (Romans 8:22).

That "whole creation" (Romans 8:20-22) includes Adam.

Paul includes the "not willingly" (Romans 8:20-22) to apply to the time that Adam ate of the tree (Genesis 3:6).

"Not willingly" (Romans 8:20) for Adam by Paul indicates "not choice" for the recorded words in (Genesis 3:6).

"Not willingly" (Romans 8:20) for Adam by Paul indicates "not freewill" for the recorded words in (Genesis 3:6).

Paul wrote Romans 8:20-22, and his writing is Christian doctrine, but self-willed people (2 Peter 2:9-10) call this Christian doctrine strange things like hypercalvinism.

this is rubbish, friend.
you're so obsessed with your hyper-calvinism that you aren't reading the text.
all you do when you look at it is think of how to deny anyone's independent volition in it.
but i ain't even addressing that, as i told you. i'm just talking about what is going on in Genesis 3, because until we get that straight, we can't talk about your hypercalvinism.


Adam was not deceived ((1 Timothy 2)) therefore Adam knew exactly what he was doing.

Nothing in 1 Timothy 2 declared that Adam was imparted free will.

Woman was first in transgression but sin & death entered the world through Adam ((Romans 5))
Adam sinned in a different way than his wife ((Romans 5))
Adam sinned knowing exactly what he was doing, fully knowing he was doing evil,

Nothing in Romans 5 declared that Adam was imparted free will.

and choosing it.

You just wickedly added "choosing" into "he ate" (Genesis 3:6) where the word "choosing" does not exist.

he 'listened to the voice of his wife'

You just wickedly subtracted the prior two Word of God of "Because you" by which God attributes the cause of Adam eating of the tree to Adam "listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’" (Genesis 3:17); therefore, the cause is not freewill per the Word of God recorded in Genesis 3:17.

and that was sin: he wasn't deceived in doing it, and he understood completely that it was contrary to God's will, and he fully comprehended that doing so was evil, not good.

You just wrote that Adam had the knowledge of good and evil prior to the time that Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

You just subtracted the Word of God "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:22).

it is said of Adam, and Adam only that he 'became like one of Us knowing good from evil'
-- the language is clear; it is not 'mankind' and it is singular, carrying the definite article, it is the name "Adam"
why is Woman not included in this statement?
because Satan was lying when he told her that she would 'become like God and know good from evil' by eating the tree.
it isn't because of their eating that Adam became a type of Christ. it isn't because of the fruit of the tree of surely-die that he knew good from evil.

You in your self-proclaimed godness you gave the tree of the knowledge of good and evil an unscriptural name of "the tree of surely-die".

You convey that it is the tree of death, such evil in the name you assign.

The Word of God uses "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" (Genesis 2:16-17).

it's because he changed his wife's name from Woman to Eve.

Adam added another identifier for his wife. Her name was not changed.

"She shall be called woman" (Genesis 2:23), so Adam did not say her name is woman; therefore, you just added "named" to and subtracted "called" from scripture.

While Adam's wife was still a woman, Adam gave her the name Eve.

That is not the extraction of one name and the insertion of a new name as a replacement.

that is the order of events: God pronounces judgements, Adam changes his dead wife's name to "life", God sheds the blood of a lamb to makes garments for Adam & Eve, and says BEHOLD Adam has become like Elohim, knowing good-from-evil.
so you have to figure out the answer to this question: why did Adam change her name? why does God say BEHOLD and who is God saying BEHOLD to? that's 3rd person, 'Adam has become.. ' -- God isn't talking to Adam. whose benefit is this said for, and why?

Your question is based on dead man's additions to scripture and subtractions from scripture, so your question is just part of the dung heap of the precepts of men (Matthew 15:9), so your question is to be ignored, so there is no need to answer your question.

Furthermore, you just subtracted the Apostle Paul's writing that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree because Paul conveyed that nothing in creation willingly subjected anyting in creation to futility with Paul's writing of "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.
 

Kermos

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No one can UNDERSTAND "FOR YOU".
No one IS "Changing" Scripture, because they Do NOT Agree with "YOUR" Understanding.

* Outside of the Garden God created and made A man.
* Clearly THEN, and Clearly TO THIS DAY....
Not Adam, Not Any man IS Created or Made, BY HIS OWN WILL!!
Man is Created and Made, BY the WiLL OF GOD!
(Not rocket science!)

* Clearly ONCE God created and made Adam, and PUT HIM IN THE GARDEN...
* God Himself reveals BY His own Example...."HOW" the man "HAS FREEWILL."

(Hey lookie here man, here are some animals.....YOU "MAN", "YOU FREELY CHOOSE" AND DECIDE A NAME for these animals....
And What? According to you... (Adam must have DECLINED because he didn't have FREEWILL to Decide and Choose WHAT to Name the animals.) :rolleyes:

Well, I KNOW that is FALSE, because Adam DID by his own Freewill, Name the animals!

You wrote of God to Adam 'YOU "MAN", "YOU FREELY CHOOSE" AND DECIDE A NAME for these animals'.

Of Adam naming the beasts and birds, it is written "Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him" (Genesis 2:19-20).

It is NOT written "and God placed one of the four footed creatures in front of Adam and God asked 'what name do you choose for this creature cat dog or deer?'".

As the recorded word in Genesis 2:19-20 indicate, Adam gave names to the creatures; in other words, Adam assigned names to the creatures.

The Hebrew word בָּחר (choose in English) is NOT in the word recorded in Genesis 2:19-20, so you are adding בָּחר (choose in English).

"Assigned" is conveyed in Genesis 2:19-20; on the contrary, "choose" is absent in Genesis 2:19-20.

Adam naming the beasts and birds does not indicate ability for Adam to choose God unto eternal life.

No scripture states Adam have a freewill.

You are incapable of conjuring scripture that states that Adam had a free will, so you wickedly add free will for Adam into scripture where free will for Adam does not exist

THE PERSON GOD SAVEDS FROM THE WRATH OF GOD DOES NOT ADD TO NOR SUBTRACT FROM SCRIPTURE.

This post goes for you too @post since you liked @Taken's post.

(And Hey listen Adam, eat of every tree IN THE GARDEN, but not "THIS ONE Tree"...
Again, Adam of his own FREEWILL, (ATE from THAT ONE TREE)... Nothing says ANYONE forced the fruit of the tree in Adams mouth, held his mouth shut, forcing him to EAT IT!)

NOTHING NEW...All day long from the beginning to this day...Men of their own FREEWILL pick and choose...what they WILL eat, WILL not eat, WILL do, WILL not do.

You wrote "Adam of his own FREEWILL, (ATE from THAT ONE TREE)"

You just wickedly added "choosing" into "he ate" (Genesis 3:6) where the word "choosing" does not exist.

AND somewhere in every INDIVIDUALS life time....they CAN FREELY CHOOSE to Believe, Love, Commit, to the Lord Jesus...OR FREELY CHOOSE "NOT TO".

NONSENSE! There is "no level" (your words), a man (WHO IS "NOT GOOD", which applies to ALL natural born men) CAN BECOME "GOOD", WITHOUT WILL-ingly, FREELY CHOOSING the Lord Jesus.

JESUS' WILL is revealed. He WILL restore and make a man anew.... IF THE MAN IS "WILLING".

You wrote 'There is "no level" (your words), a man (WHO IS "NOT GOOD", which applies to ALL natural born men) CAN BECOME "GOOD", WITHOUT WILL-ingly, FREELY CHOOSING the Lord Jesus'.

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16), and the Word of God places no exceptions on His statement; therefore, you do not receive the word of God (John 12:48).

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.