Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Kermos]

You can’t escape the fact that faith comes from hearing the word of God Romans 10:17.

You can’t escape the fact that Jesus draws all men unto Himself now. John 12:32

You can’t escape that God gives everyone a measure of faith. Romans 12:3

You can’t escape the fact of freewill in the Bible, such as when Israel was told to CHOOSE who they will serve, Jehovah God, or the Gods of the Amorites: Joshua 24:14

You can’t escape the freewill shown in Jeremiah 18, the potter and clay chapter, where God makes clear that He will have mercy on those who repent, even if He’s decided to punish them, and take back His mercy from those He already blessed, if they turn to evil:

Jer 18:7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;

Jer 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

Jer 18:9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;

Jer 18:10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

And you can’t escape the warning against calling good evil, by your making God the evil author of sin for making Adam sin, then punishing him and all mankind for committing the sin that God forced him to commit.

God had judged Nineveh and was going to destroy them, but when they chose to repent God gave them mercy.

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACT THAT hearing and understanding is the work of God in man; therefore, hearng and understanding is not dependent upon a so-called free will of man.

The Word of God says "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted" (Matthew 13:11).

Hearing does not equal free will.

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACT THAT the Apostle John attributed that statement of Jesus specifically to "He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die" (John 12:33), and there is no indication for a supposed ability for man to choose Jesus for salvation respecting the recorded Word in John 12:32.

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACT THAT in Romans 12:3 Paul had written the Roman epistle to believers, so the measure of faith refers to only persons of God's choosing being imparted a measure of faith by God.

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACT THAT Adonai YHWH was not among the choices for the people of Israel in Jeremiah 24:14-15.

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACT THAT nothing in Jeremiah 18 indicates man has the ability to repent; on the other hand, the spostles said that repentance is granted by God to man (Acts 11:18).

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACT THAT you just made the complaint that the Apostle Paul coverd in "You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory" (Romans 9:19-23).

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACT THAT no place in scripture does it say that Nineveh "chose" to repent, not the book of Jonah, nowhere in the Word of God.

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACT THAT you just added "chose" into the Word of God; furthermore, you just subtracted the Apostle Paul's writing about God's exclusive control of the salvation of man:

"it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for [His] good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

You proclaim the word of @Curtis.. For you adulterate the Word of God with man "chooses" God such that it is no longer the Word of God.

This post in this thread proclaims the Word of God declaring all aspects of man's salvation is a merciful and gracious act of God exclusively!

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[post]

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACT THAT hearing and understanding is the work of God in man; therefore, hearng and understanding is not dependent upon a so-called free will of man.

The Word of God says "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted" (Matthew 13:11).

Hearing does not equal free will.

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACT THAT the Apostle John attributed that statement of Jesus specifically to "He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die" (John 12:33), and there is no indication for a supposed ability for man to choose Jesus for salvation respecting the recorded Word in John 12:32.

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACT THAT in Romans 12:3 Paul had written the Roman epistle to believers, so the measure of faith refers to only persons of God's choosing being imparted a measure of faith by God.

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACT THAT Adonai YHWH was not among the choices for the people of Israel in Jeremiah 24:14-15.

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACT THAT nothing in Jeremiah 18 indicates man has the ability to repent; on the other hand, the spostles said that repentance is granted by God to man (Acts 11:18).

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACT THAT you just made the complaint that the Apostle Paul coverd in "You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory" (Romans 9:19-23).

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACT THAT no place in scripture does it say that Nineveh "chose" to repent, not the book of Jonah, nowhere in the Word of God.

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACT THAT you just added "chose" into the Word of God; furthermore, you just subtracted the Apostle Paul's writing about God's exclusive control of the salvation of man:

"it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for [His] good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

You proclaim the word of @Curtis.. For you adulterate the Word of God with man "chooses" God such that it is no longer the Word of God.

This post in this thread expounds the fact that the Word of God declares all aspects of man's salvation is a merciful and gracious act of God exclusively!

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Blah blah blah blah

Can you answer any of my questions?
Do you understand Genesis 2-4?

And since you apparently can't answer anything about it, I take it you are blaming God for your inability?

 

[Kermos]

BTW

i'm pretty sure when God tells Adam "because you listened to the voice of your wife" He's indicating that Adam, undeceived, made a choice

In the true declaration of "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife" (Genesis 3:17), God LITERALLY stated that the CAUSE was Adam LISTENED to Adam's wife's voice; moreover, free will is NOT included as a CAUSE; therefore, the Apostle Paul's conveyance that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree (Romans 8:20) is in accord with the recorded Word of God in (Genesis 3:17).

From whence does your surety of "choice" birth? Ler us seek in the Word of God for the answer.

FIRST, the Word of God declared "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife" (Genesis 3:17).

SECOND, the word of @post declared "Because you have chose to listen to the voice of your wife".

One of the FIRST or SECOND declarations is a lie. Since the father of lies is the devil (John 8:44), then the FIRST declaration is true for it is the Word of God. Thus the SECOND declaration is a lie.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ronald Nolette, you do not provide scripture citation for your writing of "Adam was given free will".

There is no free will mentioned in the creation account as recorded in Genesis 1-3.

In fact, the Apostle Paul had something to write about Adam and will.

Despite the Creation account in Genesis 1-3 being silent about man's "will", there exists Apostolic teaching on the matter of man's "will" with regard to the creation account.

Adam did not exercise willpower to disobey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17) for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, NASB); therefore, Adam did not make a choice, not a willing choice, to eat.

A "choice" by Adam is explicitly excluded by using scripture with scripture referencing, in fact, "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, KJV), so Adam acted not willingly but rather acted subject to vanity in his eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

"Not willingly" indicates "not choice".

"Not willingly" indicates "not free will".

Some people may claim that Paul was referring to a timeframe exclusively after what they call "the fall" (after Adam ate of the tree [Genesis 3:6]), but the continuity of the passage of Romans 8:20-22must be taken as a whole.

Paul left no room for disputing to the timeframe for which "not willingly" applies, for Paul also wrote "we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:22), and the phrase "until now" is the timeframe's most recent limiting factor which memes that all times prior to "now" are included, so "the whole creation" includes the moment after God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7) until Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6); therefore, we can be certain that Paul includes the timeframe that Adam ate of the tree in the travailing/groaning because Paul wrote of all of this in the same passage, i.e. Romans 8:20-22.

Paul includes the "not willingly" (Romans 8:20-22) to apply to the time that Adam ate of the tree (Genesis 3:6).

This means Adam did NOT choose to sin and surrender His free will.
Adam was not imparted a free will just as the original post shows, and no person thereafter has a free will either.

You are overgeneralizing the word creation to include Adam. Adam freely chose to listen to eve and eat of the fruit! Just because the words free will do not appear, does not mean they did not have it. Genesis doesn't mention Adam actually eating the food God allowed, but we know Her did. but in Gen. 3 :

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.

9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

speaks of freedom to choose or not. Eve allowed herself to be beguiled and Adam simply ate when offered the fruit from Eve. Because of this sin all of creation was subjected to vanity and cursed. It was when god cursed and imposed the start of death on Adam and Eve did they lose free will.

Free will has to do with the ability to have a spiritual relationship with god. No one since before Adam and eve have that free will because they lost it and we are born in that state as their offspring. Our free will is restored when we are born again and made alive spiritually again. then we have the ability and power to choose to obey or not obey god. the lost can do nothing to please god as it is written that even our good works as lost people are filthy rags before God.

 

[post]

In the true declaration of "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife" (Genesis 3:17), God LITERALLY stated that the CAUSE was Adam LISTENED to Adam's wife's voice; moreover, free will is NOT included as a CAUSE; therefore, the Apostle Paul's conveyance that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree (Romans 8:20) is in accord with the recorded Word of God in (Genesis 3:17).

From whence does your surety of "choice" birth? Ler us seek in the Word of God for the answer.

FIRST, the Word of God declared "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife" (Genesis 3:17).

SECOND, the word of @post declared "Because you have chose to listen to the voice of your wife".

One of the FIRST or SECOND declarations is a lie. Since the father of lies is the devil (John 8:44), then the FIRST declaration is true for it is the Word of God. Thus the SECOND declaration is a lie.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Blah blah blah hypercalvinism blah


Why did Adam listen to his wife, and what did she say?

 

[post]

free will, and no man thereafter

I think you missed all those times where I told you I don't care about your monistic atheist physicalism.
And the funny thing is, every where I go, people call me a Calvinist, because I uphold the sovereignty of God.

But I have not been writing in order to discuss such droll human theologies.
I'm writing, and have been since the beginning of my activity in this thread, because this was the active thread in this forum that had to do with Genesis. As I've been saying, if we don't fully understand Genesis 2-4 then all 30 pages or 300 pages of you saying 'blah blah blah no free will' is utterly worthless, complete nonsense.

You have to comprehend the scripture before you can go around using it as a sword. If you have no answer for the most basic questions like why does dead Adam suddenly name his dead wife "life" then you have no business traipsing around acting like you have even the first clue what you are talking about. It's like you don't even know which end is the handle but you think you're some kind of mighty warrior??

I am not talking about free will. I am talking about, what happens in Genesis 2-4??

You don't seem to get it.

 

[post]

We will talk about free will and predestination in Genesis

But we have to understand Genesis first. I'm not here to play little word games and eisegesis.

 

[Kermos]

some context would clear away the fog here:

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
(Romans 8:18-25, nkjv)

our hope - being fully redeemed as sons of God, is here contrasted with the hope of the creation ((being a separate entity from "us" who are already a new creation)): the hope of the creation ((distinct from "us")) is the revealing of the redeemed & restored mankind reconciled with God.

You wrote "the creation is the revealing of the redeemed".

Paul wrote "the glory which shall be revealed in us".

You used "revealing" which is present tense; on the other hand, Paul wrote "shall be revealed" which is future tense.

Even with the scripture right in front of you, you add to and/or subtract from scripture.

so Romans 8:18-25 isn't talking about Adam being subject to frustration 'not willingly' but about the ground being cursed in Genesis 2 for Adam's sake.

Look at you @post trying to stuff words into Paul such that Romans 8:18-25 exclusively refers to "the ground being cursed".

The word "ground" does not appear in Romans 8:18-25.

Paul's use of the word "creation" in Romans 8:18-25 is much broader in scope than your use of the word "ground".

In effect, you subtract "creation" from scripture; meanwhile, you add "ground".

Adam sinned in a very particular way, after his wife sinned ((see Romans 5)). Adam sinned without being deceived ((see 1 Timothy 2)).

Not deceived Adam did not willingly eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Romans 8:20-25).

sin entered the world through Adam even tho he was not the first to sin: 1st Satan, then those angels he deceived, then Woman, then Adam ((why?)). Adam wasn't deceived, and God cursed the earth for the sake of Adam. God did not curse the creation because of Satan, nor the fallen angels, nor for Woman: He cursed the earth for Adam's sake -- for Adam's benefit; because of Adam: God is good. He's saving Adam, saving us -- not cursing us.

Adam & Woman confessed their sin before Him. they repented. they recognized their actions as sin. they turned to Him

You wrote "they turned to Him", yet no scripture states such, so you are adding to scripture.

"They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden" (Genesis 3:8).

They hid themselves and based on scripture they answered from their hiding place.

This means they did not turn to God in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24).

answering Him, not hiding their iniquity form Him when He called. Adam heard, understood, & believed God

You effectively wrote "Adam believed", yet no scripture states that "Adam believed", so you are adding to scripture.

therefore Adam changed his wife's name. he is one of the wisest men in all of scripture - of whom God said, he has become like Us, and of whom God said, he is a type of Christ ((see again Romans 5, and Genesis 3)).

You introduce fog with your interpretation of Romans 8:18-25.

You think your word is so very important that you dictate to God as you add to and subtract from scripture.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Wynona]

@Kermos did you see my earlier post?

If not its okay. You seem...busy

 

[post]

You wrote "the creation is the revealing of the redeemed".

no i didn't -- i put this:

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
(Romans 8:18-25, nkjv)​

our hope - being fully redeemed as sons of God, is here contrasted with the hope of the creation ((being a separate entity from "us" who are already a new creation)): the hope of the creation ((distinct from "us")) is the revealing of the redeemed & restored mankind reconciled with God.

Paul wrote "the glory which shall be revealed in us".

You used "revealing" which is present tense; on the other hand, Paul wrote "shall be revealed" which is future tense.

Even with the scripture right in front of you, you add to and/or subtract from scripture.

this is nonsense.
i used "the revealing" as a noun, just like Paul does here.

Look at you @post trying to stuff words into Paul such that Romans 8:18-25 exclusively refers to "the ground being cursed".

The word "ground" does not appear in Romans 8:18-25.

Paul's use of the word "creation" in Romans 8:18-25 is much broader in scope than your use of the word "ground".

In effect, you subtract "creation" from scripture; meanwhile, you add "ground".

we are dust. did you forget that?
what do you think, God cursed only dirt in Genesis 3?
why does He say the serpent is cursed above all cattle?
wait what? when did cattle get cursed?
and how is it that plants and animals decay and die?
you think all that corruption and death is part of God's original creation?

problem here is that you do not understand the scripture, apparently.
and while that's being revealed, you have no better response than to try to attack my character.

You wrote "they turned to Him", yet no scripture states such

*ahem*

And he said, I heard Thy voice in the garden​

(Genesis 3:10)

and they confessed their sin:

I did eat.
(Genesis 3:12)

I did eat.
(Genesis 3:13)
​

You effectively wrote "Adam believed", yet no scripture states that "Adam believed"

*ahem* Genesis 3:20 *cough*

WHY DID DEAD ADAM CHANGE HIS DEAD WIFE'S NAME TO "LIFE" ?

Still, no free will written

still no where in the entire Bible is it written, "there is no free will"
you have yet to produce any scripture saying 'there is no free will'
yet you keep saying that over and over and over.


hmm.

 

[post]

Not deceived Adam did not willingly eat

really?

who forced him to sin?
who caused Adam to do evil?

who authored wickedness in him?

 

[post]

Romans 8:21
because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Note the word "also" here - why is that there?

Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Because we have already been made free, if we are in Christ! All we wait for is our sure hope that He that freed us in spirit will also redeem our bodies in the resurrection. So we, the children of God, have not yet "appeared" in the creation, and the creation earnestly waits for that resurrection, when not only will we appear like Him, but the heavens and the earth will be made new, and redeemed just as our souls already have been.

The souls of the rest of the creatures He made were not put in bondage, as we once were to sin, but their bodies were made subject to death and decay - but 'the last enemy to be destroyed is death' and that bondage the whole physical universe is under ((note: "dust")), which was not by its own will but "for Adam's sake" will be lifted on the day of His returning.

 

[post]

Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree

so whose will is it that Adam sinned?
God's will?

God forced Adam to sin, that's what you're saying?
God gave Adam life, caused Him to sin, then condemned him to death because of the sin He made him commit? that's your story?
God created mankind in order to murder them, that's your position?
you say God is a capricious, sadistic, psychotic murderer? and you say God's a liar, too? since God says He isn't the author of sin -- but you insist that He is?

so if i sin, isn't it blasphemy to repent?
since it's God's will that i sin, according to you?

 

[post]

i mean @Kermos we can talk about your atheist monistic physicalism, if you've seriously given up on actually studying scripture. i had really hoped you could talk about the Bible instead tho. you are not going to want to hear what i have to say about your theological ideas.

whoops! i meant, hypercalvinism. i get hypercalvinism and atheist monistic physicalism mixed up sometimes, because they both say the same thing. they say man is nothing but a robot reacting to stimuli, and has no independent will or thought. that any individual existence is purely illusionary, a deception of the complexity of the underlying factors. only difference is that atheist monist physicalists say the "underlying factors" that 100% control every evil thing someone does are chemical. hypercalvinists say God is the one forcing everyone to be wicked, so He can kill them for it.

substitute "evil sadistic lying god" for "physio-chemical stimuli" and a hypercalvinist & an atheist monistic physicalist are equivalent in their 'theology'

 

[Kermos]

Well then, literally nothing matters.

God matters!!!

I'm either in or out, no matter what I choose

Salvation of man is not caused by man choosing (John 15:16, John 15:19).

Salvation of man is caused by God choosing (John 15:16, John 15:19).

God matters!!!

and I can never know if I'm saved or not.

You self-proclaimed and assigned such a permanent inability to yourself with your word "never".

We saved persons know we are saved because of fruits the Holy Spirit of God in us for the Apostle Paul wrote "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them" (Ephesians 2:8-10).

However, that's not the gospel.
The gospel is:
Glad tidings" or "good news, " from Anglo-Saxon godspell.
It's for all people not just some chosen ones.
"And the angel said unto them, “Fear not, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people." Luke 2:10

It is prudent to receive more of the angelic praise in the passage, but first...

Oh look, you subtracted the definite article for the word "people" in Luke 2:10.

Back to the angelic praise in the passage.

Here is the proper rendering "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people" (Luke 2:10).

"The people" refers to the people of God, and scripture reveals "the people" are specifically the people with whom God is pleased for the host of heaven praised God saying:

Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased (Luke 2:14)

Behold @Renniks "men with whom He is pleased" (Luke 2:14).

Here is the gospel, here is good news, God sent the Savior to save from the wrath of God the people with whom God is pleased.

God's chosen people are "the people".

"For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."
1 Corinthians 1:21

I'm glad you brought attention to the phrase "those who believe".

The angels who proclaimed the Saviour as mentioned in Luke 2:8-15 praise God.

The Saviour the angels proclaimed says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

The Saviour the angels proclaimed says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

The Saviour the angels proclaimed says "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation)

On the other hand, you praise yourself in your proclamation of "I chose to believe in Jesus".

You add your purported ability to choose the Saviour to the Word of God.

You subtract the Saviour's exclusive ability to choose man from the Word of God.

You add your purported ability to control believing in the Saviour to the Word of God.

The Saviour is God (John 20:28).

Like Eve in the flesh (Genesis 3:3), you add to the Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Kermos]

You desperately keep trying to show that Adam had free will to choose away from God which does absolutely nothing to support the free willian philosophy that Adam (or anyone) could choose toward God.

The main point is Adam was incapable of causing himself to be right with God

you need to pay attention to Romans 1-7

we, in Christ, through faith, are made new, reconciled with God. we wait for the completion of our redemption, "to wit" our bodies being fully brought into conformity with the image of Him -- but He has given us a surety, a new heart and a portion of His Spirit. the creation -- which is the rest of the created order waits eagerly for the restitution of all things, the resurrection. specifically, the rest of creation waits just as we do for Christ to appear and make us like Him.
the passage you keep quoting isn't about Adam; it's about the ground which was cursed for Adam's sake. we are not under this curse: we are in Adam, and Adam was never cursed.

Romans chapters 1 to 7 are wonderfully composed by Paul, and they lead to chapter 8.

Now, being on Romans 8, look at you @post trying to stuff words into Paul such that Romans 8 exclusively refers to "the ground being cursed".

The word "ground" does not appear in Romans 8:18-25.

Paul's use of the word "creation" in Romans 8:18-20 is much broader in scope than your use of the word "ground".

In effect, you subtract "creation" from scripture; meanwhile, you add "ground"..

Despite the Creation account in Genesis 1-3 being silent about man's "will", there exists Apostolic teaching on the matter of man's "will" with regard to the creation account.

Adam did not exercise willpower to disobey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17) for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, NASB); therefore, Adam did not make a choice, not a willing choice, to eat.

A "choice" by Adam is explicitly excluded by using scripture with scripture referencing, in fact, "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, KJV), so Adam acted not willingly but rather acted subject to vanity in his eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

"Not willingly" indicates "not choice".

Some people may claim that Paul was referring to a timeframe exclusively after what they call "the fall" (after Adam ate of the tree [Genesis 3:6]), but the continuity of the passage of Romans 8:20-22must be taken as a whole.

Paul left no room for disputing to the timeframe for which "not willingly" applies, for Paul also wrote "we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:22), and the phrase "until now" is the timeframe's most recent limiting factor which memes that all times prior to "now" are included, so "the whole creation" includes the moment after God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7) until Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6); therefore, we can be certain that Paul includes the timeframe that Adam ate of the tree in the travailing/groaning because Paul wrote of all of this in the same passage, i.e. Romans 8:20-22.

Paul includes the "not willingly" (Romans 8:20-22) to apply to the time that Adam ate of the tree (Genesis 3:6).

After Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6), to Adam, God said "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." (Genesis 3:17-19).

The word "because" inherently indicates cause in (Genesis 3:17), and the word "because" is the first word that God said to Adam in Genesis 3:17-19.

God declares the cause as being that Adam listened to the voice of his wife.

God LITERALLY stated that the CAUSE was Adam LISTENED to Adam's wife's voice; moveover, free will choice is NOT included as a CAUSE; therefore, the Apostle Paul's conveyance that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree (Romans 8:20) is in accord with the recorded Word of God in Genesis 3:17.

God declares the effect as being that the ground would be cursed because of Adam as well as to dust Adam would return.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[post]

Not willingly" indicates

"not willingly" Indicates without dispute that there is such a thing as "willingly"


Why did Adam who had just become dead name his wife who had just become dead, "life"?

Is your position that they are saved or that they are unsaved?

 

[post]

Cains answer to God:

Genesis 4:9
"I do not know; am I my brother's keeper?"

Result: Cain is cursed.


Woman's answer to God:

Genesis 3:13
"The Serpent deceived me, and I ate."

Result:

The Serpent cursed, Woman not cursed.


WHY?

 

[Renniks]

You self-proclaimed and assigned such a permanent inability to yourself with your word "never".

Uh- uh... naughty, naughty. You are appealing to my freedom and autonomy to assign something to myself.
You have no wiggle room in your cult to do that.

 

[post]

Uh- uh... naughty, naughty. You are appealing to my freedom and autonomy to assign something to myself.
You have no wiggle room in your cult to do that.

Lol