Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Kermos]

Your argument is dead.

Gen 2:16
[16] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat...

Lev 22:

1. [18] Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them, Whatsoever he be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all hisfreewill offerings, which they will offer unto the LORD for a burnt offering;
2. [21] And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow, or afreewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein.
3. [23] Either a bullock or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts, that mayest thou offer for a freewill offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.

Lev.23

1. [38] Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all yourfreewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

Num.15

1. [3] And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow, or in a freewill offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savour unto the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:

Num.29

1. [39] These things ye shall do unto the LORD in your set feasts, beside your vows, and your freewillofferings, for your burnt offerings, and for your meat offerings, and for your drink offerings, and for your peace offerings.

Deut.12

1. [6] And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:
2. [17] Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:

Deut.16

1. [10] And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the LORD thy God, according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:

Deut.23

1. [23] That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

2Chr.31

1. [14] And Kore the son of Imnah the Levite, the porter toward the east, was over the freewill offerings of God, to distribute the oblations of the LORD, and the most holy things.

Ezra.1

1. [4] And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.

Ezra.3

1. [5] And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.

Ezra.7

1. [13] I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.
2. [16] And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, with the freewill offering of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of their God which is in Jerusalem:

Ezra.8

1. [28] And I said unto them, Ye are holy unto the LORD; the vessels are holy also; and the silver and the gold are a freewill offering unto the LORD God of your fathers.

Pss.119

1. [108] Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.

First, "freewill offering" is in the Old Testament, so this is not the New Testament. There are differences.

Second, as God's chosen people, the Israelites had instruction about the "freewill offering" in the Old Covenant.

Third, the definition behind "freewill offering" must be examined according the source word נְדָבָ֖ה in the Hebrew of the Old Testament. This word נְדָבָ֖ה (nedabah) has a Strong's number of 5071.

DEFINITION: from H5068; properly (abstractly) spontaneity, or (adjectively) spontaneous; also (concretely) a spontaneous or (by inference, in plural) abundant gift:-free(-will) offering, freely, plentiful, voluntary(-ily, offering), willing(-ly), offering) (this Strong's defintion obtained from BlueLetterBible.org 5071).

Fourth, the definition behind "freewill offering" must be examined according the source word αφαίρεμα in the Greek of the Old Testament in the Septuagint. This word αφαίρεμα does not appear in the New Testament, so it does not have a Strong's number, but it has been assigned a number of "850.4" in the Apostolic Bible Polyglot.

DEFINITION: That which is cut off as a choice part; a choice portion; a cut-away portion.

Fifth, it is written in the Old Testament "The Israelites, all the men and women, whose heart moved them to bring [material] for all the work, which YHWH had commanded through Moses to be done, brought a freewill offering to YHWH" (Exodus 35:29).

AND there is a Hebrew word for "choose", but it is not here, so it does not state "who chose to bring", yet it does state "whose heart moved them to bring"

AND this offering is for material for the work as opposed to choosing toward God

AND this is the first occurrence of "freewill offering" in the NASB

AND the people brought abundant offerings for it is written "They received from Moses all the contributions which the sons of Israel had brought to perform the work in the construction of the sanctuary. And they still [continued] bringing to him freewill offerings every morning. And all the skillful men who were performing all the work of the sanctuary came, each from the work which he was performing, and they said to Moses, 'The people are bringing much more than enough for the construction work which the LORD commanded [us] to perform.' So Moses issued a command, and a proclamation was circulated throughout the camp, saying, 'Let no man or woman any longer perform work for the contributions of the sanctuary.' Thus the people were restrained from bringing [any more]" (Exodus 36:3-6)

SO it is clear that the synonyms נְדָבָ֖ה (nedabah) in Hebrew and αφαίρεμα in Greek denote a heartfelt gratuitous offering.

Sixth, based upon Biblical usage neither of these words translate to "freewill" as in "freewill choice toward God":

• נְדָבָ֖ה (nedabah) in Hebrew
• αφαίρεμα in Greek

Seventh, based upon definitions, neither of these words translate to "freewill" as in "freewill choice toward God":

• נְדָבָ֖ה (nedabah) in Hebrew
• αφαίρεμα in Greek

Eighth, "freewill" is an inappropriate translation of נְדָבָ֖ה (nedabah) in Hebrew.

Nineth, based upon both Scriptural usage and definitions, both of these words translate to spontaneous heartfelt gratuitous premier portion offering:

• נְדָבָ֖ה (nedabah) in Hebrew
• αφαίρεμα in Greek

Jesus and the Apostles quoted out of the Septuagint as recorded in the New Testament.

The Septuagint uses the word αφαίρεμα which translates to "the choice portion" which references an offering.

The Brenton Septuagint Translation version of Exodus 35:29 reads as "And every man and woman whose mind inclined them to come in and do all the works as many as the Lord appointed them to do by Moses- they the children of Israel brought an offering to the Lord".

The Brenton Septuagint Translation version contains "an offering" with no mention of "freewill".

The word "freewill" in "freewill offering" is an incorrect translation, so no scripture states that man has a freewill.

The word "freewill" in "freewill offering" is an incorrect translation, so no scripture states that man has a freewill.

 

[Kermos]

Your argument is dead.

Gen 2:16
[16] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat...

Ezra.7
[13] I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.

In Ezra 7:13, the decree is by the pagan king Artaxerxes (Ezra 7:12).

So, that is not a declaration of Almighty God, YHWH, in Ezra 7:13.

A prophet of God does not make the declaration in Ezra 7:13.

Tbe word "freewill" in the KJV is "volunteer" in the NIV and "willing" in the NASB, so it is not a foregone conclusion that "freewill" is accurate in Ezra 7:13, but it matters little because the pagan king Artaxerxes was the author of the decree.

The decree is not God indicating that God imparted free will into man.

So, Ezra 7:13 fails as your proof for man's free will.

@Taken, you must have a very short term memory because As this post TO YOU in this thread shows, the word "freely" does not appear in the Hebrew of the Genesis 2:16-17 passage, and the Hebrew source word for "freely" is truly "to eat" in English for Genesis 2:16.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Taken]

You just wickedly added "choosing" into "he ate" (Genesis 3:6) where the word "choosing" does not exist.

No, I did not ADD "choosing" to Scripture.
My word "choosing" was my one word, of my understanding of God giving Adam authority to name the animals whatever Adam decided to name them.

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16),

And? Why do you repeat yourself?
Unlike YOU, I am fully aware Jesus was SPEAKING TO the disciples Jesus "CHOSE".

Don't YOU read Scripture?
Don't YOU KNOW whom Jesus CHOSE?
Don't YOU KNOW whom Jesus was speaking TO?

Luke 6:
[13] And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

False Accusation.

God chooses, Men choose.
Blessed is the man WHOM Gods chooses!
Beloved is the man WHOM chooses God!

Pss 65
[4] Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24),

FREEWILL of a man...IS a mans "WILL", TO CHOOSE as he decides!

You certainly can Freely choose, to limit yourself to Scriptures that DO NOT say FREEWILL, and ignore the Scriptures whereby God beloves a man who freely CHOOSES Him.

You obviously believe you have no "freewill", Yet you "choose" and by "YOUR FREEWILL" to write and post "false accusations" to me.

"YOUR FREEWILL" - same as others have freewill to "SAY" and "CHOOSE" what "they" decide.

Ezra 7:
[13] I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.

Josh 24;
[15] And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD,choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Romans 8:20-22 says NOTHING (as YOU CLAIM)....about:

that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree

..."ate of the tree" is YOU Freely adding".
Where Paul said no such thing.

Romans 8:
[20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
[21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
[22] For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

First of all "imparted" is your description,
Not mine.
I have no responsibility to Defend YOUR words.

Paul expressly speaks of the "creature MADE subject to vanity".

I have already EXPRESSLY posted...
God Created "AND" MADE a Creature God called a MAN-KIND of creature.

God Himself revealed the man-kind creature, God Himself "created and MADE", (that God named ADAM Adam WAS GIVEN BY GOD'S offering, the offering for Adam to NAME the animals whatever ADAM freely CHOSE to name them.

NOTHING WHATSOEVER...reveals the names ADAM chose for the animals, WERE NOT of Adams own FREEWILL Choice. (as you teach)

The woman FREELY TOOK the fruit.
The woman FREELY ATE the fruit.
The woman FREELY GAVE the fruit.
The man FREELY ATE the fruit.

Gen 3:
[6] And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

You being VOID of understanding of WHAT Freewill IS, IS your problem, not mine.

You using YOUR FREEWILL to FOCUS on making false accusations from your limited understanding, IS on you, not me.

Too bad, you exercise YOUR FREEWILL for the purpose of BEING an ACCUSER...rather than FOCUSING ON "WHY" mankind "HAS" freewill.

The LESSON IS:
God has FREEWILL
The devil has FREEWILL
Mankind has FREEWILL

God Offers...the devil Offers...mankind Offers.
An OFFER...is "NOT GIVING".
An OFFER...is notice of FREE WILL-ingress;
TO GIVE.... on CONDITIONS..."IF" one FREELY CHOOSES to "TAKE" what is OFFERED.

"IF"...establishes the Condition.
God Offers...IF a man by his own FREEWILL, the mans OWN choice...AGREES to "TAKE" what God Offers...God WILL freely Give what He Offered.

"IF" a man does not HAVE FREEWILL, use his FREEWILL to CHOOSE TO TAKE Gods Offering...
DUH! The man will NOT receive what God Offered!

The LESSON IS: Expressly ABOUT the "Cunningness and Trickery" of the Devil.
The Devil gets ones attention by his presence, by his speech.
The Devil uses appealing speech, as if "he" has something to Offer (which ONLY what the Devil has to OFFER IS: his trickery and cunning speech).
The trickery of the Devil is to GET one to reach out and "TAKE", that which God has said NOT TO TAKE.
The cunningness of the Devil sets in motion by his cunningness and trickery on his "prey" the WEAK, the IGNORANT, the (immature in wisdom.)

The Devil DID NOT PICK the Fruit, TAKE the Fruit, HAND the Fruit TO Eve.
Eve herself freely TOOK the fruit.
Eve herself freely ATE the fruit.
Eve herself freely GAVE the fruit to Adam.
Adam freely TOOK the fruit.
Adam freely ATE the fruit.

NOONE...MADE or forced, Eve or Adam to cast their eyes on the fruit, or take the fruit, or eat the fruit.
BOTH....the man and the woman of their OWN FREEWILL...took and ate the fruit.

God Himself Created AND MADE mankind.
Gods MAKING of mankind, is revealed in numerous Scripture of WHAT "making" means.
Made living.
Made to have freewill.
Made vain.
Made to exercise their freewill, by Choosing what a man Desires over and above what God desires FOR a man.
Made to exercise their freewill, by Choosing what God Desires over and above what the World desires FOR a man.

The LESSON IS;
* A man freely choosing to eat peas or not, prepare supper at 5:00 or 7:00, be an employer or employee...is of no consequence.
* A man Freely choosing to BELIEVE and COMMIT their Belief IN the Lord God: IS followed BY A Great "FAVORABLE" consequence, FROM GOD.
* A man Freely choosing to NOT BELIEVE and COMMIT their Belief IN the Lord God; IS followed BY a Great "UNFAVORABLE" consequence, FROM GOD.

THE "WHY" is: (because) a man "freely chooses WHAT" the man freely chooses...
IS WITHOUT Excuse.

( but, but ...the devil made me do it...
Nope...YOU made YOU do it.
No Excuse...of your own accord...YOU freely chose )

You toying around with the speech of "choosing and freewill" by mankind is shortsighted on your part, is zero interest to me.

I did not "choose" YOU.
I am not "subject to" YOU.
I chose for me, on a day, eons ago, what the Lord God offered me.
I chose for me, what the Lord God Offered me.
I elected by MY Freewill, to choose the Lord God.
I exercised MY FREEWILL, (according to the Order and Way, God revealed in His Word), IS expressly acceptable to Him.

There is NO QUESTION the Lord God Himself CHOOSES mankind.
There is NO QUESTION the Lord God Himself TAKES and KEEPS a man WHO FREELY CHOOSES the Lord God.

IF you have NOT exercised your freewill, your choice to CHOOSE God...the consequence of your failure to Choose God...is your burden to bear...not mine.

Gal 6:
[5] For every man shall bear his own burden.

 

[Taken]

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Your argument is dead.

Repeating yourself merely reveals your lack of comprehension and your stiffneckedness to hear the truth and believe the truth.

Gen 1
[26] ...God said, Let us make man ...after our likeness:

Uh, SINCE God can Choose...God "MADE" man that man ALSO CAN CHOOSE!

 

[post]

You just wickedly

Don't you mean "God just wickedly.."
Since you say there's no such thing as individual volition?

 

[Taken]

Don't you mean "God just wickedly.."
Since you say there's no such thing as individual volition?

Seems he thinks...God chose him...yip, yip, done deal!

 

[post]

Seems he thinks...God chose him...yip, yip, done deal!

he thinks God is the author of sin.

 

[post]

Nothing in 1 Timothy 2 declared that Adam was imparted free will.

how many times do i need to remind you that i'm not talking about free-will vs. predestination, at all ?

i'm just trying to help you understand Genesis 2-4, because clearly you don't.
you can't answer the first question about it.

go back to my first post in this thread; what did i say?

friend, until you understand what you're reading, you need to stop trying to preach.
you harm yourself & potentially others by what you're doing.

 

[Kermos]

"in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil"
- the Father of Lies

how many of you are teaching that Satan was telling the truth here?
eh?

Your thoughts are embedded in your question (also see your immediately prior post), so let's test the spirit of your thoughts.

It is written "Then the eyes of both of them were opened" (Genesis 3:7) after Adam and his wife ate of the tree.

That which you call a lie is actually true, so the spirit of your thoughts are exposed.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[post]

Your thoughts are embedded

did they become like God by sinning, yes or no?

 

[Taken]

he thinks God is the author of sin.

Clearly his thinking is and teaching is:
Philosophies of men formulated into Doctrines of men, are Greater than the Doctrine of God.

The Scripture itself, teaches the detriment of such teaching and to BEWARE, not Fall for and go along with such things.

Col 2:
[8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

2 Pet 3:
[17] Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.

Scripture further teaches...
That "beware" warning IS expressly TO...
* Anyone, first learning about God and Christ Jesus.
* Anyone, WITH the Lord.
* "They are still vunerable" and can be swayed by, spoiled by, vain deceit, traditions of men, (tickling their ears)....and can fall from "their" steadfastness, through philosophies, vain deceit, traditions of the "wickedness" of men.

Men who ARE; "WITH and IN", Christ Jesus; are not "they" being Warned.
Men who ARE; "WITH and IN", Christ Jesus;
Are KEPT from the rudiments OF the world;
BY the internal Power of God, (who IS Christ).
Following the Lord is good. (Hearing)
Believing the Lord is good (ie WITH, the Lord, ie "believing what one is Hearing"....
Both Vunerable.

He "with and IN" Christ...IS absolute. Nothing wicked or evil OF the World has power over such man.

And IFY, "wicked" IS, Knowing the Truth, but teaching a "lie".

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Kermos]

Adam was not deceived
(1 Timothy 2:14)

God judges him for listening to the voice of his wife.
what did she say to him?

he was not deceived.
sin entered the world through one man - Romans 5:12
not through Woman, who was the first in transgression. through Adam, who was not deceived.

Adam, who knew the difference between doing right and doing wrong. who knew what God said and knew what his wife had done and knew what was the sinless thing to do and what was the sinful thing to do. Adam, undeceived, 'listens to the voice of his wife'
she doesn't trick him. the serpent doesn't trick him. he doesn't trick himself. he acts voluntarily.

what did she say to him?

Woman was first in transgression, but sin entered the world through Adam.
Adam was not deceived; Woman was ((1 Timothy 2, Romans 5))
both Woman and Adam ate of the tree, but only of Adam did God say
"BEHOLD! Adam has become like one of Us, knowing good from evil!" ((Genesis 3))
this has to be understood before we can have any kind of serious discussion about freewill.
we have to understand what is happening here in the garden.

How long does it take to gather leaves, sew them into garments, put them on, then go find a place to hide, and hide there?

VS. How long does it take to reach out your hand, pick a fruit and take a bite?

God expects us to have a bit of intelligence when we read His book. Use the common sense He created you with.

You think they had clothes prior to eating?
I'm not asking for your human definition of 'naked' - it's useless.

This is the word of God we're talking about, so we need God's definition of 'naked' - and everything is laid bare before Him.

So our job is to search the scripture for 'naked' and piece together what God means by it.
Our job when we read scripture isn't to dismiss it as being simple or not worth thinking about or asking questions about. Our job is to pore over it, studying it with every effort, looking for how it testifies of Christ.

So what does God mean by naked?

listen mr. Kermos, i really don't give a $#@% about your hyper-calvinism crusade.
but you need to understand Genesis 2-4 before you can go around thinking you can teach anything from it.

so what does naked mean?

they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
(Genesis 2:25)

did Adam & his wife become naked by eating the fruit of the tree of death? nope.
note that shame is associated with nakedness here, and we're being specifically told that they had no shame being naked.
why not?
what makes a naked person ashamed?
there's no sin in the world in Genesis 2:25 -- are they unashamed because they are mindless, blind idiots who didn't even realize they had no tunics? or are they unashamed because they have no reason it be ashamed? do sinless man & woman have anything to hide? are God's perfect, sinless, "very good" first human couple oblivious morons? is that your position? and then sinning makes them wise and observant? is that what you're going with? are you going with, "Satan the Father of Lies was 100% correct, God's intention was for them to be imbecilic and to hide knowledge and wisdom and moral understanding from them" ?


they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.
(Genesis 3:7)

different situation here. they are dead. they have sin. they make coverings. are they ashamed now? yes:

I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.
(Genesis 3:10)

Adam, who is not deceived, knowing he was naked, is now afraid, covering himself, and ducking meetings, not being where he's expected.
what kind of behavior is that?
it's shame. Genesis 3:7 & 10 are the direct counterpoint to Genesis 2:25. Adam & Woman were naked & not ashamed with no sin, then they were naked and ashamed with sin. naked did not change: nothing says they didn't know they were naked prior to this. sin & shame changed.
so why are they ashamed?
are the wicked ashamed of their sin? do the repentant have shame or no-shame?

why is Adam hiding?
who is he hiding from? why is he afraid? what needs to be covered? do fig leaves cover it? from God? from who?

Adam isn't deceived -- does he think God won't see him if he covers himself with fig leaves? is Adam that stupid? do you know the omniscience of God better than Adam who walked with Him? so what is Adam doing? why? it would take him 30 seconds to reach out and eat from the fruit of the tree of life, but he spends a whole lot more than 30 seconds picking fig leaves, making a needle, stripping vine for thread, and sewing them all together into tunics. why? what is he thinking? is he a complete idiot? would you have done something wiser? do you think wow how stupid is the first human, created without sin and walking with God in the garden, naming every living soul? why doesn't he just get two elephant-ear leaves and call it a day? why doesn't he eat from the tree of life -- does it cure death?

do you even think about any of this at all when you read your Bible, @Kermos? or do you just skim through it going "yep hypercalvinist, hpercalvinist, hypercalvinist... nothing to see here... hypercalvinism, hpercalvinism... the rest doesn't matter"

??

WHY DO THEY SUDDENLY CARE THAT THEY ARE NAKED?
WHY FIGS?
WHY MAKE TUNICS?

is Genesis 2-4 a story that completely falls apart if a person asks simple, obvious questions about the narrative? do i wreck the Bible by just asking why?
or do you have an answer for any of this?

if you do not have answers for any of this it's hard for me to think you are in any way qualified to sit here in this thread and judge everyone's responses. if you don't really know what's going on here, if you don't comprehend the narrative, then you really don't have any idea if there's freewill in Genesis, because you don't know what Genesis actually says: all you're doing is arguing about words.

which is it?

is your position that Adam had two wives? lol

"she shall be called Woman" Genesis 2:23
"Adam called his wife’s name Eve" Genesis 3:20

in both places a reason is given:
when her name was Woman, because she was taken out of man.
when her name became Eve, because she would be the mother of all the living.

now, in Genesis 3:20, they have both just become "dying-they-shall-die"
they have been judged, expelled, and a guard set on the tree of life.

so i am asking you a very obvious question that anyone who reads Genesis ought to ask:
why does dead Adam change his dead wife's name to "life" ?

it's time to set your pedantry aside and study the scripture.

is Adam an idiot or has Adam just done an extraordinary thing?

death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
(Romans 5:14)

Adam sinned in a particular way, that not everyone sins in
Adam is a type of Christ

what is 'sinning according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam' ?
who sins this way, and who are the 'those' who had not sinned this way?
do you sin like Adam, or do you sin not-like-Adam? do you do both?

clearly Adam is an antithesis of Christ in that death entered the world through him ((why not Woman, who was first in transgression?)) and through him and one transgression, all died, while through Christ all live by one sacrifice -- but,
in what way is Adam like Christ?

For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
(Romans 5:6-8)

here's the opening context of the statement that Adam is like Christ, and discussion thereof.
did Adam die for someone?
did Adam demonstrate his love for someone?

As this post in this thread shows, God declares that Eve's voice was the cause for Adam to eat of the tree (Genesis 3:17), and Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree (Romans 8:20).

Continued to post 573

 

[Kermos]

Continued from post 572

Adam wasn't deceived, but his wife was. ((1 Timothy 2))

why is it important for us to know that there was deception; that one fell being deceived, and the other entered transgression without being deceived?

what does it take to be deceived? can you be deceived if you have no independent intellect? can you be deceived if you are incapable of decision? can you be deceived if you have no ability to make moral choice? can you be deceived if you have no concept of right or wrong? do you need to deceive someone who blindly does anything they're told?

suppose i have a wind-up toy that walks in whatever direction i set it down. it can't turn, it can't stop, it has no awareness of where it's going or even whether it is going anywhere at all. it's just a mechanical device, with no mind.
suppose i want it to run into a wall -- what do i do? i point it at the wall. now, do i have to deceive the wind-up-toy, and convince it that there's no wall there? does the word 'deceive' even make any sense in the context of a simple machine that can't act independently? or does 'deceive' necessarily imply consciousness, intelligence, and capacity for independent thought & volition?

why do we have two sins in the garden, one being deceived, and the other without any deception?
why does Romans 5 make a big deal out of the difference between the two being significant?
why does sin & death not enter the world through the transgression committed under deception, but enter and spread to the whole world through the sin that was committed without deception -- i.e. with full, accurate, conscious knowledge of the action & its consequence, free from any coercion?

Woman sinned first. ((1 Timothy 2))
sin did not enter the world through her.

why not?

You're not answering my questions.
I left your derisive remarks out of the quote

Is it your position that Adam and his wife are unbelievers?

Excuse me, you are saying that studying the Bible is an abominable sin against God ?

Show me the verse that says "there is no free will"

?

do you believe Adam & Woman/Eve are saved? do they believe God? what does Genesis 2-4 say?





did God choose Adam? did God choose Woman? did He reveal Himself to them; did they know Him?
did they confess their sin to Him and have faith in Him for their salvation? did Adam answer God when God called him?
did God take Adam out of the world and place him in paradise? did God shed blood and cover Adam and his wife?
did God take Woman out of Man? did God create them?

was God's purpose in creating them to murder them, their children and their animals? do you agree with the Jews at Meribah, at both Meribahs?


dude i am giving you a chance to preach the gospel through Genesis 2-4. why are you not jumping on it? who cares about your hypercalvinism when we have the Word of God? your hypercalvinism is worthless!

Your proclivity to add to scripture and to subtract from the Word of God has been repeatedly shown in this thread.

Here is one practical post and another example post showing this fact.

Not to mention how many of your questions have been addressed scripturally in this thread.

You have sufficiently demonstrated that you do not understand the creation account.

Unless I perceive that your questions are genuine hunger for the Bread of Life instead of predatory like a wolf in sheep's clothing about the creation account I do not plan to answer or address such of your questions any further.

You vehemently added freewill into the Word of God recorded in Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24.

Furthermore, you just subtracted the Apostle Paul's writing that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree because Paul conveyed that nothing in creation willingly subjected anyting in creation to futility with Paul's writing of "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Tong2020]

As this post in this thread shows, God declares that Eve's voice was the cause for Adam to eat of the tree (Genesis 3:17), and Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree (Romans 8:20).

Romans 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope

Using your line of reasoning, it would hve you adding the word “Adam”, “eat” and tree in the passage, isn’t it? There’s no “Adam” there. There’s no “eat”, no “tree” either.

Tong
R3881

 

[post]

As this post in this thread shows, God declares that Eve's voice was the cause for Adam to eat of the tree (Genesis 3:17), and Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree (Romans 8:20).

Continued to post 573

Nonsense

God did not say, 'because your wife spoke to you' but 'because you listened'

 

[Kermos]

Forced love?

Tong
R3797

Have you never read "love is from God" in "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7)?

@CharismaticLady, and you, have you read 1 John 4:7?

The very love we born of God Christians feel for others and show to others is a blessed act of God! Not man nor woman conjuring up righteous love. Righteous love is a blessed act of God in man and woman!

Behold how beautifully this ties into the words of Lord Jesus "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another" (John 13:34).

The ONLY way for "even as I have loved you" to happen is a wonderful act of God.

Adam did not love God for no scripture states that Adam loved God.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Have you never read "love is from God" in "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7)?

@CharismaticLady, and you, have you read 1 John 4:7?

The very love we born of God Christians feel for others and show to others is a blessed act of God! Not man nor woman conjuring up righteous love. Righteous love is a blessed act of God in man and woman!

Behold how beautifully this ties into the words of Lord Jesus "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another" (John 13:34).

The ONLY way for "even as I have loved you" to happen is a wonderful act of God.

Adam did not love God for no scripture states that Adam loved God.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Of course I know that scripture. It is part of the New Covenant commandments of 1 John 3:23-24

Do you think that my not agreeing with you on angels and free will shows a lack of love? Do you think it loving to let someone believe a lie?

 

[Kermos]

@Taken, this is another time that you fouled up your post, and this response is to your post, and I had to include this paragraph because you fouled up your response resulting in this site’s quoting mechanism preventing the display of your fouled up post’s quotation.

Your quotation is in error. Truly Paul wrote "knowing, brethren, beloved under God's choice of you" (1 Thessalonians 1:4, and in the Greek both "God's" and "choice' are singular so these go together impacting the plural "you").

You wrote "You are trying to Establish, men had NOT FREEWILL to Choose God, Because God Chose men First, (whereas Scripture reveals, Men DID NOT first Choose God, But Men DO hear, learn, discover, and DO Choose God).".

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16), and the Word of God places no exceptions on His statement; therefore, you do not receive the word of God (John 12:48).

You wrote "You are trying to use Rom 8:20 as verifying the Creature being Created...without Freewill.".

I have been writing that "He ate" (Genesis 3:6) was "not willingly" (Romans 8:20); therefore, there is no freewill indicated in Genesis 3:6.

You wrote "WHO exactly FORCED YOU TO BELIEVE IN GOD? Believe IN JESUS CHRIST? "

The way the Apostle Paul puts it is awesome "He who began a good work in you will complete it" (Philippians 1:6), yes he is faithful to complete it!

The Word of God tells me "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

By the grace of God, I stick with the Word of God instead of your words.

Look @Taken, since the Word of God never conveys that Adam was imparted a free will, then each and every time you convey that Adam was imparted a freewill then you are wickedly adding to the Word of God.

When you wrote "DO Choose God" you added to the Word of God and subtracted from into the Word of God recorded in Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24 as well as John 15:16-19.

Furthermore, you just subtracted the Apostle Paul's writing that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree because Paul conveyed that nothing in creation willingly subjected anyting in creation to futility with Paul's writing of "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Forced love?

Have you never read "love is from God" in "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7)?

@CharismaticLady, and you, have you read 1 John 4:7?

The very love we born of God Christians feel for others and show to others is a blessed act of God! Not man nor woman conjuring up righteous love. Righteous love is a blessed act of God in man and woman!

Behold how beautifully this ties into the words of Lord Jesus "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another" (John 13:34).

The ONLY way for "even as I have loved you" to happen is a wonderful act of God.

Adam did not love God for no scripture states that Adam loved God.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Isn’t Jesus a man? Did He not have a will? Did Jesus not love God? Does not scriptures say that Adam was a type of Jesus? Does not scripture say of Jesus as the last Adam?

Tong
R3882

 

[Tong2020]

@Kermos said in the OP, “THEN a free will Adam could not have been roaming the Garden of Eden with the ability to choose to obey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17) “

Clearly, God commanded of the first man, not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That makes it pretty clear that the first man has ability to eat and not eat of it, together with the ability to distinguish and identify of the tree and the fruit of it among all others.

Obedience/disobedience is a conscious act of the will or that involves the will.

Tong
R3883