The First Condition of salvation

[robert derrick]

our righteousness as dirty rags..
first you have to know that you are naked, and blind, and poor...
and they knew that they were naked...

but they hid themselves and covered themselves with leaves.
their righteousness was gone.

Kind of like what Jesus did when he was blasting the Saducees and Pharisees.
He was calling them out.
They had no where to hide.

What did Adam and Eve do?
What did the Saducess and Pharisees do?

They all got kicked out on their fannies.
Adam and Eve were sent out of the garden,
and Israel lost it's temple.

Our righteousness as dirty rags...

Thank You
hugs

"Our righteousness as dirty rags..."

So is our salvation without doing the righteousness of God:

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. (I John 3)

Being righteous as Jesus is only by doing His righteousness, not just by believing in it, which is the same as believing we are saved, which has nothing to do with being saved.

Salvation through faith only is a righteousness without doing it, which is not righteous with God at all.

Separate the faith from the doing,and the faith is dead, along with a salvation separated from the things that come with it, not that only come later.

Unless,
1. Salvation does not come with the things accompany it.

2. Salvation comes alone, with the things that accompany salvation coming later.

 

[robert derrick]

There really only is one condition ultimately.
And once this one condition is met, all others fall into place.
The same way that keeping the Two commandment meets the conditions of all 10.

This one condition is the very verse most commonly used around the world.

And this is that condition:

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Amen
Hugs

Calling believeth in Him a 'condition' is anathema to them that call it unconditional salvation and eternal life.

The one condition of God's salvation is believing in Him, and the first principle of believing in Him is obedience to Him (Heb 6:1): obedience to the faith (Rom 1:3), without which faith is dead, and believing in Him is in mind and name only.

Believing in Jesus from the heart is with obeying Him from the heart: no obeying now, no believing now, no eternal life now.

He that is doing righteousness now is righteous, even as He is righteous (1 John 3). Now, not later.

And he that is doing unrighteousness is of the devil now, no matter what before or later:

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8)

The only question that matters is what are we doing today, now. If righteousness of God, then saved by God. If sin of the devil, then of the devil.

And believing we are saved, has nothing to do with it. Believing in a salvation through faith alone is believing in our own faith, which is believing in ourselves, not believing in Him to do His faith.

 

[robert derrick]

I don’t know where you got that definition of metaneo from, but the Strongs exhaustive on my bible software, defines it as changing your mind:

G3340 (Strong)

μετανοέω

metanoeō

met-an-o-eh'-o

From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.

Total KJV occurrences: 34

God hasn’t changed His mind about what repentance means, from the old covenant to the new.

Shalom Aleichem

Repentance in mind only is the same as faith in mind only: dead.

They are trying to apply 'repentance of mind' to conviction of heart. They are repenting in their minds of what they are now convicted of: i.e. they are freed from the conviction of God by agreeing with Him it is sin, without agreeing to stop now.

Such 'repentance' is in mind only, in order to have liberty from conviction, while yet in sin.

It is the covenant made with hell (Is 28:15), where they can cry peace and safety, without repentance from dead works.

"God hasn’t changed His mind about what repentance means, from the old covenant to the new."

The only thing changed is the means of repentance: faith from the written, rather than outward works of the law only, which was what Paul writing against. Even as James was writing against inward faith only, without outward works thereof. The former is vain, and the latter is dead, neither of which have justification of God.

 

[Invisibilis]

You’re right there, because what you said seems to be “doublespeak” to me.
Shalom

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

I pray that you will have the faith to penetrate deeper into your own truth, to get a 'knowing' of unconditionality. Then you will notice that the only true power we have is to become unconditional.

Matthew 10:39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

God is Everything. We have to let go of everything for Everything.

 

[Curtis]

Repentance in mind only is the same as faith in mind only: dead.

They are trying to apply 'repentance of mind' to conviction of heart. They are repenting in their minds of what they are now convicted of: i.e. they are freed from the conviction of God by agreeing with Him it is sin, without agreeing to stop now.

Such 'repentance' is in mind only, in order to have liberty from conviction, while yet in sin.

It is the covenant made with hell (Is 28:15), where they can cry peace and safety, without repentance from dead works.

"God hasn’t changed His mind about what repentance means, from the old covenant to the new."

The only thing changed is the means of repentance: faith from the written, rather than outward works of the law only, which was what Paul writing against. Even as James was writing against inward faith only, without outward works thereof. The former is vain, and the latter is dead, neither of which have justification of God.

When Acts 3:19 says repent - metaneo, - and be converted, for the forgiveness of sins, the only definition you can apply to the repentance there, is the one given in the Strongs exhaustive Greek dictionary for that word - and metaneo means to change your mind.

That’s why when God repented of His desire to destroy all of Israel after the golden calf idol worship incident - after Moses talked Him out of it - it meant that God changed His mind.

That’s why scripture says, “and be ye transformed BY THE RENEWING OF YOUR MIND”

Our mind is to be transformed and renewed.

None of the passages regarding repentance for salvation, use the words “repentance from dead works” they always use METANEO - changing one’s mind - you are trying to equate Paul teaching Jewish Christians about leaving behind useless ceremonial rituals from Mosaic law, in Hebrews 6, with repentance for salvation/conversion.


Christian Jews had a real problem with desiring to keep circumcision, and keeping the law of Moses, per Acts 15, where all the apostles and elders came together to decide what to do about it.

Shalom

 

[Wrangler]

The very first step of salvation is found at Jn 17:3 Bob.

Wow! I think the very first step to salvation is Matthew 7:21, which reinforces what is said in the OT dozens, if not 100's of times. Submit to and obey the will of God, his command's etc.

Too many confuse OSAS with the idea that salvation is OPEN to all while still having a price. In fact, I was just reading Spirit Lead Reading about figuring the cost before beginning. Luke 14:28-30

 

[Curtis]

Wow! I think the very first step to salvation is Matthew 7:21, which reinforces what is said in the OT dozens, if not 100's of times. Submit to and obey the will of God, his command's etc.

Too many confuse OSAS with the idea that salvation is OPEN to all while still having a price. In fact, I was just reading Spirit Lead Reading about figuring the cost before beginning. Luke 14:28-30

For what the apostles actually taught on HOW TO BE SAVED read Romans 10:8-13.

Rom 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”

Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.

Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Post# 10

Lot's wife… she had other children. …she lingered because she loved her children.

It amazes me the length of imagination and excessive reading into scriptures some do to come up with things in scriptures that are not there.

The reason we are to remember Lot’s wife is so we don’t look back on things we are told to leave behind.

And if there were other daughters left behind (which there weren’t), why didn’t Lot look back as well? What, Lot didn’t love his (fictitious) daughters???

Stop with these vain things man.

 

[post]

It amazes me the length of imagination and excessive reading into scriptures some do to come up with things in scriptures that are not there.

Why did Abraham ask God to spare the city for specifically 10 people?

What amazes me is that people think the words of God are insignificant, arbitrary and meaningless - that many think scripture has no great depth and there is nothing to be gained by peering over it intently.

 

[post]

And if there were other daughters left behind

I already put justification through scripture for all the things I said.
Where is your justification in the text for scoffing?
There are scoffers in the text, yes. The sons in law who had married the daughters who remained in the city.

So thank you for your illustration

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Why did Abraham ask God to spare the city for specifically 10 people?

For God’s sake man!

Abraham started at 50!

Was 50 significant?

NO!

Why would 10 be????

Whatever man…

 

[post]

Was 50 significant?

NO!

Well I do not agree that scripture is insignificant.

 

[marks]

I don’t know where you got that definition of metaneo from, but the Strongs exhaustive on my bible software, defines it as changing your mind:

G3340 (Strong)

μετανοέω

metanoeō

met-an-o-eh'-o

From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.

Total KJV occurrences: 34

God hasn’t changed His mind about what repentance means, from the old covenant to the new.

Shalom Aleichem

The word I'm talking about is metanoia, actually. I'm going off of my schooling and reference books. There's a lot out there you can research. I find Strong's a good starting point if you want to get into the original language.

Much love!

 

[Curtis]

Post# 10


It amazes me the length of imagination and excessive reading into scriptures some do to come up with things in scriptures that are not there.

The reason we are to remember Lot’s wife is so we don’t look back on things we are told to leave behind.

And if there were other daughters left behind (which there weren’t), why didn’t Lot look back as well? What, Lot didn’t love his (fictitious) daughters???

Stop with these vain things man.

How is what he said fictitious?


Do you not remember that Lot offered his daughters to be raped, to spare his two angelic guests from being raped by the sodomites?

I’m betting that somewhere scripture says Abraham had family in sodom, too.

Speculation on why Lots wife looked back, is just that.

 

[marks]

Such 'repentance' is in mind only, in order to have liberty from conviction, while yet in sin.

Of course this is not correct.

From the abundance of your heart your mouth speaks, Jesus said. There are the sins you commit, and there is where sin is coming from.

What we are we are first in our minds. We make our choices of who to be and what to think and do, and from those choices, our internal mental culture, out from that come our words and actions.

Changing your mind, having a new mind, is no small or empty thing. We exchange from the fleshy child of Adam to be now the spirit child of God.

To me, what I'll call "behavioral repentance" is about what we do. But the true repentance is about who we are.

Much love!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

No repent ye, no be converted, no being saved. Without repentance, there is no salvation. And so, salvation is conditioned on repentance.

Did you ever think that repentance means simply to turn to God?
God draws us and eventually we come to a place of humility (Godly sorrow) and we turn to God for help. That is the act of repentance.
An unsaved soul cannot do anything with their sin nature, they are slaves in chains, bound, they CAN'T STOP SINNING UNTIL THEY ARE BORN AGAIN. Even after that, they sin, but because God has forgiven them for all time, their wages of sin no longer has a penalty of spiritual death. Repentance is not telling that slave to stop doing what they are doing, break your chains of bondage and then God will free you. No, you can't stop, because you have this nature to sin. You can't break your bondage to sin. This is why God says turn to Me and ask and believe and I WILL FREE YOU FROM BONDAGE.
REPENTANCE MEANS TURN TO GOD.
Some definitions:
The repentance (metanoia) called for throughout the Bible is a summons to a personal, absolute and ultimate unconditional surrender to God as Sovereign. Wikipedia

>>> surrendering your will, your fallen nature because you cannot save yourself
-------
re·pent·ance
/rəˈpentəns/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the action of repenting; sincere regret or remorse.
"each person who turns to God in genuine repentance and faith will be saved" Oxford

>>>Turning to God with feelings if remorse, godly sorrow.
----------
met·a·noi·a
/ˌmedəˈnoiə/
noun
change in one's way of life resulting from penitence or spiritual conversion.
"what he demanded of people was metanoia, repentance, a complete change of heart"

>>>Notice it is a change of mind/heart
after a spiritual conversion

 

[Robert Gwin]

Wow! I think the very first step to salvation is Matthew 7:21, which reinforces what is said in the OT dozens, if not 100's of times. Submit to and obey the will of God, his command's etc.

Too many confuse OSAS with the idea that salvation is OPEN to all while still having a price. In fact, I was just reading Spirit Lead Reading about figuring the cost before beginning. Luke 14:28-30

Interesting Wrangler, I consider that the last, as they were judged, obviously one would have to know the will of God before they can do it.

 

[robert derrick]

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

I pray that you will have the faith to penetrate deeper into your own truth, to get a 'knowing' of unconditionality. Then you will notice that the only true power we have is to become unconditional.

Matthew 10:39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

God is Everything. We have to let go of everything for Everything.

"I pray that you will have the faith to penetrate deeper into your own truth, to get a 'knowing' of unconditionality. Then you will notice that the only true power we have is to become unconditional. God is Everything. We have to let go of everything for Everything"

New age 'truth seeking' in the name of God: How can God be 'everything', if we are seeking our own truth, which certainly is not His truth.

"God is Everything. We have to let go of everything for Everything"

Quote the Scripture: "God is everything" Because God certainly is not everything: God is not the world, nor is He the devil; nor is God in everything, not in the sins of darkness, nor in the hearts of unbelievers, nor in the trees.

The deeper we dig into our own truth, the deeper hole we dig for ourselves: Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. (Matthew 15)

Truly 'unconditional' would involve no digging at all, because all we would find is how we have nothing to do with anything about God and salvation and faith, which is a void salvation devoid of truth, righteousness, and fulfilling the royal law.

This kind of 'letting go', is letting go of conviction and guilt without repentance.

Unless,
1. There is nothing accompanying salvation.
2. Letting go of everything includes casting off works of darkness in repentance from dead works.

 

[robert derrick]

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

I pray that you will have the faith to penetrate deeper into your own truth, to get a 'knowing' of unconditionality. Then you will notice that the only true power we have is to become unconditional.

Matthew 10:39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

God is Everything. We have to let go of everything for Everything.

The piercing of the Word of God is not us 'diggin deeper into our own truth' but God rooting out our own lies and foolishness within: all the inner sins of darkness: lies of self-deception, hypocrisies, envy, malice, hatred...

And putting off these can only occur after mortifying the deeds of the body; otherwise we are only trying to control our temper without control of our body:

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. (Col 3)

 

[robert derrick]

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. (Col 3)

Firis is mortifying the outer deeds of the body, then is putting off the inner sins of the spirit.

No casting off by repentance of dead works, no armour of Light.

Unconditional salvation without anything accompanying it is pretending to have put on a cloak of 'light' around our sins of the flesh:

If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness! (Matthew 6)

Unless,

1. We can be wearing an armour of Light, while still practicing sins of the devil.

2. Or, wearing the armour of Light is not necessary for salvation.