Judas Went to His Own Place – A Biblical Verdict of Eternal Judgment

[David Lamb]

And no one conceived, carried, gave birth to, and raised God the Word in the flesh, except Mary. I'm going to ask you to use your God-given reason and then give your explanation for why God, the Most Pure and Holy Being, Who lives in Heaven, a place where no sin or evil can dwell, would become incarnate in the womb of and be raised by a sinful and impure woman? And, then explain to me why Mary couldn't have been without sin through God's and Her own will?

But that just pushes the question back a generation. How could Mary, if sinless, be conceived in the womb of and be raised by a sinful and impure woman? Not only so, unlike Jesus, Mary had a sinful father.

 

[Scott Downey]

And no one conceived, carried, gave birth to, and raised God the Word in the flesh, except Mary. I'm going to ask you to use your God-given reason and then give your explanation for why God, the Most Pure and Holy Being, Who lives in Heaven, a place where no sin or evil can dwell, would become incarnate in the womb of and be raised by a sinful and impure woman? And, then explain to me why Mary couldn't have been without sin through God's and Her own will?

You do realize God has used all sorts of people to accomplish His purposes and will through all of history.
It was never said of Mary she was without sin her entire whole life from birth.
All of what you said to me you are adding in as requirements for God to act and do this work in Christ on the earth.
Why did the virgin conceive? Why the need for a virgin birth of Christ?
This is not because of sin, it was a sign from God about how His Son would be born. The sign was meant for people to understand who He would become.

Isaiah 7
10 Moreover the Lord spoke again to Ahaz, saying, 11 “Ask a sign for yourself from the Lord your God; [h]ask it either in the depth or in the height above.”

12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask, nor will I test the Lord!”

13 Then he said, “Hear now, O house of David! Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will you weary my God also?

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

15 Curds and honey He shall eat, that He may know to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16 For before the Child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that you dread will be forsaken by both her kings.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

presumption isn't a sin

It is however a mistake and those who are sinless do not make mistakes.

It's clear that Mary made some mistakes which proves she is not sinless

Better luck on the next topic!

An accusation is a claim that someone has done something wrong

Mary accused Jesus of wrongdoing by staying behind being about His Father's Work.

She knew Who Jesus was, so to dress Him down for being about His Father's Work is sinful behavior.

Feel free to continue ignoring what constitutes as sin.

Worshiping Jesus's momma is sin as is worshiping angels and dead people

But that just pushes the question back a generation. How could Mary, if sinless, be conceived in the womb of and be raised by a sinful and impure woman? Not only so, unlike Jesus, Mary had a sinful father.

Good point that cannot be explained away

God not have preserved Mary's soul from inheriting the stain of the original sin at the moment of Her conception?

But as has already been established, Mary did sin and she did make mistakes so she is not sinless because like everyone else she sinned and made mistakes after having been born

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God, even Mary and all the catholic popes!

 

[Scott Downey]

The incarnation of God could've taken place in the womb of a Virgin Who was without sin as well, and it wouldn't change how He was born or Who He would become. So, give your explanation for why God, the Most Pure and Holy Being, Who lives in Heaven, a place where no sin or evil can dwell, would become incarnate in the womb of and be raised by a sinful/impure woman, when He could've by a sinless/pure woman? And, then explain to me why Mary couldn't have been without sin through God's and Her own will?

I am not saying Mary was sinful when she conceived Jesus.
I am saying Mary must have sinned at some point in her life.
Do you know that John's parents were also blameless and righteous in their walk in the Lord God?
I view Mary to be like them, blameless without sin.
Of note, the angel pronounces a small judgment on Zacharias because he questioned the angel's words, whereas Mary did not.
Naturally any normal old guy might do the same.
But the visitation was heavenly and highly unusual, so like Mary, he should have just said ok!

Luke 1
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. 7 But they had no child, because Elizabeth was barren, and they were both well advanced in years.

8 So it was, that while he was serving as priest before God in the order of his division, 9 according to the custom of the priesthood, [c]his lot fell to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord. 10 And the whole multitude of the people was praying outside at the hour of incense. 11 Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.

13 But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your prayer is heard; and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. 14 And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. 15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. 16 And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, ‘to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,’ and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

18 And Zacharias said to the angel, “How shall I know this? For I am an old man, and my wife is well advanced in years.”

19 And the angel answered and said to him, “I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and was sent to speak to you and bring you [d]these glad tidings. 20 But behold, you will be mute and not able to speak until the day these things take place, because you did not believe my words which will be fulfilled in their own time.”

 

[David Lamb]

While Mary's parents weren't without sin, they were just.

As far as I am aware, Scripture doesn't even tell us who Mary's parents were, let alone whether they were just or not.

And, could God not have preserved Mary's soul from inheriting the stain of the original sin at the moment of Her conception?

Exactly, and if God could have done that, He could (and did) do the same with His Son when He took on human flesh.

And could Mary's body and soul not have remained immaculate and in God's Grace of Her own free will throughout Her life?

She recognised that she needed a Saviour. "My spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour," she said. Saviour from what, if she was immaculate and sinless?

 

[David Lamb]

He saved Her by preserving Her soul from inheriting the original sin, which means that Her soul remained immaculate and full of God's Grace, and She remained thus of Her own free will.

Scriptural basis for that?

So, you believe that God was capable of preserving Mary's soul from inheriting the original sin at the moment of Her conception?

No, I was using your argument concerning Mary's conception, to say that if He could keep her from inheriting sinfulness at conception, what is the problem with Him keeping Jesus from inheriting it, without the need for an immaculately-conceived mother? I certainly wasn't saying that I believe He actually did cause Mary to be conceived immaculately - we are not told that in Scripture.

The living Being Who is our God has spoken about Mary and Her parents. All of His thoughts and words aren't confined between the covers of any one book.

This is a problem then. If His word is not the final authority for belief and practice, how do we as Christians know which of the multitude of ideas around about Jesus, heaven, hell, Mary, Creation, etc. are correct?

 

[David Lamb]

God is a living Being and what I've read from Him about Mary and Her parents was said in the 1940's to Maria Valtorta, and so how could it be found in the writings of the Evangelists thousands of years ago?....



But do you believe that God was capable of preserving Mary's soul from inheriting the original sin at the moment of Her conception? And could Mary not have continued to remain immaculate of Her own free will?



God is a living Being just like you and I. Are all of your thoughts and words confined between the covers of any one book? No. Could they ever be? No. So, if that's true for us who are lesser beings, then how could it not be for God who is a greater Being? Scripture is sufficient for bringing people to belief and salvation, but it doesn't encompass all of God's thoughts and words about things. God is a living, loving, interactive God. God could come to you right now and speak about, for example, you and your life, and what He says won't be found in Scripture, but does that mean you shouldn't listen to what He says? No. Does it make Scripture less important? No. And when God truly speaks to a person, like Maria Valtorta, and has them write down all that He shows and says, He's going to make it known that they are His instrument, His "pen", just as He's always done with His instruments. Maria Valtorta was truly an instrument of His, and I can provide many proofs for it, and its all thanks to God.

I am sorry, but I don't agree that we must use additions to the bible, whether by Maria Valtorta or anybody else.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

As far as I am aware, Scripture doesn't even tell us who Mary's parents were, let alone whether they were just or not.

Exactly, and if God could have done that, He could (and did) do the same with His Son when He took on human flesh.

She recognised that she needed a Saviour. "My spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour," she said. Saviour from what, if she was immaculate and sinless?

Mary's parents are named in the Apocrypha.
Joachim and Anne.

Omission of those texts labeled apocrypha leads to confusion in full contextual comprehension of the canonical books we have today.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

what I've read from Him about Mary and Her parents was said in the 1940's to Maria Valtorta

In other words, let's don't accept God's written Word.

This is exactly how and why the catholics have so much false doctrine they follow.

Mary's parents are named in the Apocrypha.

The co called apocrypha are not writings inspired by the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ.

There are things in the apocrypha that contradicts inspired writing from the Lord so the apocrypha be given the boot at the direction of the Lord.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I thank God I'm not someone who confines His thoughts and words to between the covers of any one book.

Yeah some folks are so open minded, the devil can put anything he wants in there and they fall for it!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I thank God that He taught how to discern

You should use it then and follow the Doctrine of Christ instead of men's wisdom being presented as the wisdom of God when it's not.