Biblical Mary

[Taken]

No, "Kecharitomene".

Case closed.

Case closed Because your twisted philosophical yabba dabba, is clearly debunked by Scripture itself.

YOUR POST, as you have clearly stated, you have repeated over and over and over;

BreadOfLife # 979
Kecharitomeme;
This word translates as "One having been completely, perfectly and enduringlyendowed with grace."
It connotes a PAST action with a PERMANENT result...

Luke 1:
[30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast
FOUND FAVOUR with God.

Your whole Catholic Theory hangs on:
"Having BEEN...A PAST ACTION"...
DEBUNKED!

"FOUND" does not indicate ANYTHING PAST!

Be off with you, with your FACE to the corner, with your own humiliating, embarrassing and repetitious false preaching;
until you are ready to humble yourself, stand IN the Truth and Face those standing IN the Truth.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

• 
  
  

You left out a cople of uses for the word "Adelphos".
It is ALSO used for cousin, unvle, half brother, step brother, etc.

The people spoken of in Matt. 12 and Mark 3 were MORE than likely cousins.
HOW do we know this? Because - as I have ALREADY shown you - James and Joses are shown to be the sons of Mary's "adelphe" (John 19:25), who was the wife of Clopas, also called, Alphaeus.

So, NO - you didn't do your homework. You simply regurgitated the SAME ignorant manure as before.
Do your homework before responding . . .

I did do my homework and now to show why you have intentionally misled people about Mary th ewife of Joseph the Carpenters other children.

1. Adelphos is never used even once to describe, cousins, half brothers, uncles aunts etc. To describe kin folk the word used in syneges.

You will never find one instance of adelphos meaning a relative. It alway8s means immediate brothers and sisters, same nationality (borther Jews i.e.) or fellow believers in Christ.

I challenge you to find one instance of a cousin or uncle described as adelphos.

adelphos ἄλφα (G1) (as a connective particle) and delphus (the womb)
Greek Inflections of ἀδελφός ἀδελφέ — 5x
Ἀδελφέ — 1x
ἀδελφοὶ — 30x
ἀδελφοί — 111x
Ἀδελφοί — 8x
ἀδελφοῖς — 17x
ἀδελφὸν — 33x
ἀδελφόν — 9x
ἀδελφὸς — 28x
ἀδελφός — 15x
ἀδελφοῦ — 17x
ἀδελφοὺς — 28x
ἀδελφούς — 11x
ἀδελφῷ — 13x
ἀδελφῶν — 20x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: brethren (226x), brother (113x), brother's (6x), brother's way (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
   
   
2. having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
   
   
3. any fellow or man
   
   
4. a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
   
   
5. an associate in employment or office
   
   
6. brethren in Christ
   

syngenēs σύν (G4862) and γένος (G1085)
Greek Inflections of συγγενής [?]
mGNT
12x in 6 unique form(s) TR
12x in 6 unique form(s) LXX
5x in 4 unique form(s)
συγγενεῖς — 5x
συγγενέσιν — 2x
συγγενῆ — 1x
συγγενὴς — 1x
συγγενής — 1x
συγγενῶν — 2x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: kinsman (7x), cousin (2x), kinsfolk (2x), kin (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. of the same kin, akin to, related by blood
   
   
2. in a wider sense, of the same nation, a fellow countryman
   

You will not find a borther or sister called synenges either.

YOu simply fail.

Mark 6:3
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
To go from Mother to cousins makes no sense except to those indoctrrinated as I was once.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No - YOU unfortunately represent the more ignorant ones.

Flattery will get you nowhere!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Worth Repeating Here = Matthew 12: 46-50

While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."
He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

Mary had children with her betrothed husband Joseph - They never divorced and God did not take her away from Joseph.

Don't tell that to Bread of Life. He will tell you that means cousins.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

FULL SOMMUNION means that they are CATHOLIC.
We are NOT in full communion with the Orthodox, Einstein.

ONE more time, my extremely dense friend:
NOBODY recognizes the Pope as "vicarius Filius Dei" .
This false title is from a forged document, the Donation of Constantine.

I'm at the point now where I just feel sorry for you.
It's no fun winning arguments against an UNARMED person . . .

But the other Catholics do not recognize the Pope as their leader Pogo! Pope is only the head of the roman Catholic church!

Well I stand corrected about the Pope . I had no idea it was in the same forged documents that outlines th ePopes from Peter till the fourth century!
So pontificus maximus is not also vicaius filei dei!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I looked up the very first link you gave and it says:

The Coptic Catholic Patriarchate of Alexandria is the Patriarchal and only Metropolitan see of the head of the Eastern sui iuris Coptic Catholic Church, a particular Church in the Catholic Church in full communion with the Holy See,……
……..The patriarchal see as such ranks third among all Catholic (arch)bishoprics of the world (only after the Apostolic See of Rome and the Catholic Patriarch of Constantinople), by the virtue of Canon Law (CCEO 58, 59.2).

And this from the Second Vatican Council

DECREE ON THE CATHOLIC CHURCHES
OF THE EASTERN RITE
ORIENTALIUM ECCLESIARUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964​

2. The Holy Catholic Church, which is the Mystical Body of Christ, is made up of the faithful who are organically united in the Holy Spirit by the same faith, the same sacraments and the same government and who, combining together into various groups which are held together by a hierarchy, form separate Churches or Rites. Between these there exists an admirable bond of union, such that the variety within the Church in no way harms its unity; rather it manifests it, for it is the mind of the Catholic Church that each individual Church or Rite should retain its traditions whole and entire and likewise that it should adapt its way of life to the different needs of time and place.(2)

3. These individual Churches, whether of the East or the West, although they differ somewhat among themselves in rite (to use the current phrase), that is, in liturgy, ecclesiastical discipline, and spiritual heritage, are, nevertheless, each as much as the others, entrusted to the pastoral government of the Roman Pontiff, the divinely appointed successor of St. Peter in primacy over the universal Church. They are consequently of equal dignity, so that none of them is superior to the others as regards rite and they enjoy the same rights and are under the same obligations, also in respect of preaching the Gospel to the whole world (cf. Mark 16, 15) under the guidance of the Roman Pontiff.

\
So the Pope at Vatican 2 said He was ruler over the other catholic churches and their patriarchs. He also said He is the supreme ruler over all Christians, the successor to Peter. I haven't seen any non-catholic sect agree to the Popes announcement and that Rome is the seat of the whole churches authority on eardth. Now if you can show the documents that teh patriarchs of the various other Catholic churches agreed to be under the pastoral guidance of the Pope, I will recant this line.

We are not arguing about Catholics- for there are varied churches called catholic. But we are discussing whether these other Catholic churches signed on to what Poppa said in Vatican 2 and submitted themselves to the authority (or as the encyclical said pastoral government of the Roman pontiff)

Do all these other Catholic churches look to Rome for rules, regulations, and orders and such? do they look to the Vatican as the seat of their church? You know what I am asking, so why don't you answer it!.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

MAN, you're ignorant.
Or is it just an act??

You haven't proven you rpoint. Nor have you refuted what I have written.

Here are the lists of the varied catholic sects besides the Roman Catholic Sect. I picked three at random and see the result!

• Alexandrian Rite:
  • Coptic Catholic Church headquartered in Cairo Cairo and Pope Terawdos 2 as their spiritual head- NOT FRANCIS
  • Ethiopian Catholic Church
  • Eritrean Catholic Church
• Antiochian Rite:
  • Maronite Church headquartered in Beirut Lebanon and Patriarch Nasrallah Sfeir is the head not Francis
  • Syrian Catholic Church
  • Syro-Malankara Catholic Church
• Armenian Rite:
  • Armenian Catholic Church
• Chaldean or East Syrian Rite:
  • Chaldean Catholic Church
  • Syro-Malabar Catholic Church
• Byzantine Rite:
  • Albanian Catholic Church
  • Belarusian Catholic Church
  • Bulgarian Catholic Church
  • Serbo-Croatian Catholic Church
  • Greek Catholic Church
  • Hungarian Catholic Church
  • Italo-Albanian Catholic Church
  • Macedonian Catholic Church
  • Melkite Catholic Church headquartered in Antioch and Patriarch Youssef Absi is the head not Francis.
  • Romanian Catholic Church
  • Russian Catholic Church
  • Ruthenian Catholic Church
  • Slovak Catholic Church
  • Ukrainian Catholic Church

 

[amigo de christo]

Correct - ALL Catholics don't agree.
Those that don't agree with the teachings of the Church are called dissidents or outright Protestants.

Faithful Catholics believe what is taught by Christ's 2000 year old Church.

Are you saying that all who dont agree with the catholic church are dissidents .
THEN call me a dissident . And i have no shame in that name . ITS THE BIBLCAL JESUS FOR ME .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Case closed Because your twisted philosophical yabba dabba, is clearly debunked by Scripture itself.

YOUR POST, as you have clearly stated, you have repeated over and over and over;

Luke 1:
[30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast
FOUND FAVOUR with God.

Your whole Catholic Theory hangs on:
"Having BEEN...A PAST ACTION"...
DEBUNKED!
"FOUND" does not indicate ANYTHING PAST!

Be off with you, with your FACE to the corner, with your own humiliating, embarrassing and repetitious false preaching;
until you are ready to humble yourself, stand IN the Truth and Face those standing IN the Truth.

And your argument FAILS because the NT wasn't written in the King's Old English.
Those of us who are educated know that it was written in Koine Greek. Anyway - your argument ALSO fails in English because "FOUND" indeed indicates a past event . . .

As I have educated you MANY times now - the title for Mary that is used in Luke 1:28 is "Kecharitomene".
This word is a perfect participle and translates as "One having been completely, perfectly and enduringly endowed with grace."
It indicates a PAST action with a PERMANENT result. - and ALL of your whining can't change that . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I did do my homework and now to show why you have intentionally misled people about Mary th ewife of Joseph the Carpenters other children.
1. Adelphos is never used even once to describe, cousins, half brothers, uncles aunts etc. To describe kin folk the word used in syneges.

You will never find one instance of adelphos meaning a relative. It alway8s means immediate brothers and sisters, same nationality (borther Jews i.e.) or fellow believers in Christ.

I challenge you to find one instance of a cousin or uncle described as adelphos.

adelphos ἄλφα (G1) (as a connective particle) and delphus (the womb)
Greek Inflections of ἀδελφός ἀδελφέ — 5x
Ἀδελφέ — 1x
ἀδελφοὶ — 30x
ἀδελφοί — 111x
Ἀδελφοί — 8x
ἀδελφοῖς — 17x
ἀδελφὸν — 33x
ἀδελφόν — 9x
ἀδελφὸς — 28x
ἀδελφός — 15x
ἀδελφοῦ — 17x
ἀδελφοὺς — 28x
ἀδελφούς — 11x
ἀδελφῷ — 13x
ἀδελφῶν — 20x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: brethren (226x), brother (113x), brother's (6x), brother's way (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
   
   
2. having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
   
   
3. any fellow or man
   
   
4. a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
   
   
5. an associate in employment or office
   
   
6. brethren in Christ

syngenēs σύν (G4862) and γένος (G1085)
Greek Inflections of συγγενής [?]
mGNT
12x in 6 unique form(s) TR
12x in 6 unique form(s) LXX
5x in 4 unique form(s)
συγγενεῖς — 5x
συγγενέσιν — 2x
συγγενῆ — 1x
συγγενὴς — 1x
συγγενής — 1x
συγγενῶν — 2x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: kinsman (7x), cousin (2x), kinsfolk (2x), kin (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. of the same kin, akin to, related by blood
   
   
2. in a wider sense, of the same nation, a fellow countryman

You will not find a borther or sister called synenges either.

YOu simply fail.

Mark 6:3
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
To go from Mother to cousins makes no sense except to those indoctrrinated as I was once.

Why do you insist on LYING - when you know that I will publicly expose you for it??
Regarding your idiotic and dishonest statement above in RED - a debunked that in my LAST post.

Here it is again:
- In Gen. 14:14, Lot is called Abraham’s "brother" (adelphos), even though he was Abraham’s NEPHEW (Gen. 11:26–28).
- In Gen. 29:15, Jacob is referred to as the "brother" (adelphos) of his UNCLE Laban.
- Brothers Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar’s daughters married their "brethren”(adelphoi), the sons of Kish - who were actually their COUSINS (1 Chr. 23:21–22).

THREE clear examples that PROVE you are lying about the use of "Adelphos".
ENOUGH with the LIES already . . .

 

[Mungo]

\
So the Pope at Vatican 2 said He was ruler over the other catholic churches and their patriarchs. He also said He is the supreme ruler over all Christians, the successor to Peter. I haven't seen any non-catholic sect agree to the Popes announcement and that Rome is the seat of the whole churches authority on eardth. Now if you can show the documents that teh patriarchs of the various other Catholic churches agreed to be under the pastoral guidance of the Pope, I will recant this line.

We are not arguing about Catholics- for there are varied churches called catholic. But we are discussing whether these other Catholic churches signed on to what Poppa said in Vatican 2 and submitted themselves to the authority (or as the encyclical said pastoral government of the Roman pontiff)

Do all these other Catholic churches look to Rome for rules, regulations, and orders and such? do they look to the Vatican as the seat of their church? You know what I am asking, so why don't you answer it!.

So You give a link to prove your case ans show you that it proves mine. Suddenly that link is no longer valid. How mendacious is that.
Please stop wasting my time on this.

I'll give you a link to what I thin k is a good explanation but first here is an extract that shows that they submit ti the Pope.

So who are these "other" Catholics? They have their own hierarchies and liturgies, as well as their own distinct apostolic lineages. They may look and act like Eastern Orthodox churches, but they recognize the pope of Rome as the head of the visible Church on earth and have suffered for the cause of that unity......

The following is a brief survey of each of the 24 sui iuris Catholic Churches all of which are in full communion with Rome. Parishes can be found throughout the United States and Canada. They are grouped by rite and include brief descriptions, along with an estimate of their current membership numbers. Some of these Churches are headed by metropolitans or major archbishops who are independently elected and then confirmed by the pope. The Patriarchal Eastern Catholic Churches elect and consecrate their own patriarch completely independent of the pontiff; letters of official communion are exchanged after the installation. Other Churches simply submit a list of eligible candidates to Rome for consideration.
The Other Catholics: A Short Guide to the Eastern Catholic Churches

 

[BreadOfLife]

But the other Catholics do not recognize the Pope as their leader Pogo! Pope is only the head of the roman Catholic church!

Well I stand corrected about the Pope . I had no idea it was in the same forged documents that outlines th ePopes from Peter till the fourth century!
So pontificus maximus is not also vicaius filei dei!

WRONG.

He is the earthly head of the ENTIRE Catholic Church - which includes ALL of the Bishops and Liturgical Rites.
Their "Patriarchs" are BISHOPS - as were the Patriarchs in the Early Church.

As for "Pontifex Maximus" and "Vicarius fili Dei" - they are NOT the same title, Einstein.
Good grief - take some time OFF and do some studying. Your responses are asinine . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You haven't proven you rpoint. Nor have you refuted what I have written.

Here are the lists of the varied catholic sects besides the Roman Catholic Sect. I picked three at random and see the result!

• Alexandrian Rite:
  • Coptic Catholic Church headquartered in Cairo Cairo and Pope Terawdos 2 as their spiritual head- NOT FRANCIS
  • Ethiopian Catholic Church
  • Eritrean Catholic Church
• Antiochian Rite:
  • Maronite Church headquartered in Beirut Lebanon and Patriarch Nasrallah Sfeir is the head not Francis
  • Syrian Catholic Church
  • Syro-Malankara Catholic Church
• Armenian Rite:
  • Armenian Catholic Church
• Chaldean or East Syrian Rite:
  • Chaldean Catholic Church
  • Syro-Malabar Catholic Church
• Byzantine Rite:
  • Albanian Catholic Church
  • Belarusian Catholic Church
  • Bulgarian Catholic Church
  • Serbo-Croatian Catholic Church
  • Greek Catholic Church
  • Hungarian Catholic Church
  • Italo-Albanian Catholic Church
  • Macedonian Catholic Church
  • Melkite Catholic Church headquartered in Antioch and Patriarch Youssef Absi is the head not Francis.
  • Romanian Catholic Church
  • Russian Catholic Church
  • Ruthenian Catholic Church
  • Slovak Catholic Church
  • Ukrainian Catholic Church

Sheer idiocy . . .

A I educated yo in my LAST post - the Patriarchs (Bishops) of these Liturgical Rites are ALL in FULL COMMUNION with the Bishop of Rome, the Pope.

Do some more studying - then come back after you can define what "FULL COMMUNION" means, Einstein . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Are you saying that all who dont agree with the catholic church are dissidents .
THEN call me a dissident . And i have no shame in that name . ITS THE BIBLCAL JESUS FOR ME .

Apparently, you have a reading problem because that is NOT what I said.
Go back and READ what I said.

I said that CATHOLICS who disagree with Catholic teaching are dissidents.
YOU are a Protestant - who doesn't pay attention . . .

 

[amigo de christo]

Apparently, you have a reading problem because that is NOT what I said.
Go back and READ what I said.

I said that CATHOLICS who disagree with Catholic teaching are dissidents.
YOU are a Protestant - who doesn't pay attention . . .

I suppose i will claim either title . just dont call me of the RCC . JESUS IS THE HOPE OF THE LAMBS .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I suppose i will claim either title . just dont call me of the RCC . JESUS IS THE HOPE OF THE LAMBS .

That's good because I'm not one of the "RCC" either - whatever that means.
And you can't claim "either" title. You're a Protestant - and that's it . . .

 

[Taken]

And your argument FAILS

There is no argument.
The Lord Found favor with Mary.
(Not an argument.)

The Scripture notifies us of WHY/ WHAT made Mary Favored. (Just as Scripture notifies us every other Person Favored/Chosen, to Serve the Lord).
(Not an argument.)

The Disagreement is;
I trust What Scripture says is the WHY/WHAT and WHEN, Mary Became Favorable.

You make up Mary was MADE "SINLESS". ....and thus MADE "Favored", thus "SINLESS".


NOT ONCE, Does Scripture notify ANYONE, THAT ANY natural born Earthly man-kind of thing was "created, made or naturally born SINLESS".

* IN FACT, the Scripture teaches the complete Opposite.
Pss 51:5
Rom 5:12
Rom 3:23

* Jesus, born of God, IS THE ONLY, one revealed having come forth out from God, and EXPRESSLY Revealed WITHOUT Sin.
John 1:13
John 16: 27-28
1 Pet 2:22

* John the Baptist himself, filled with the Holy Spirit while IN his mothers Womb, Was NEVER called SINLESS.
Luke 1:16

a PERMANENT result.

Gods Favor does not mean SINLESS.
Being FILLED with the HOLY SPIRIT, does not mean SINLESS.

Scripture expressly Teaches ALL Earthly mankind HAVE been born IN Sin and HAVE Sinned.

Scripture expressly Teaches ANY man who says otherwise, DOES NOT HAVE THE TRUTH IN HIM.
1 John 1:
[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

* Mary herself, never said, "she has no sin".

* The Absolute Disdain and Contempt of the Catholic Church IS "THEM speaking FOR Mary"... "Claiming Mary had no sin".

* You mimic what the Catholic Church has taught you. You repeat the Catholic Church's Lie pertaining to MARY.
You repeatedly SPEAK false claims FOR OTHERS.

* You fool noone.

- and ALL of your whining can't change that . . .

And...The SAME as the Catholic Church does, and has also taught you... you ALSO couple your False Claims, with intended derogatory accusations, when one rejects YOUR CLAIMS.

As you have Revealed....from the cradle you have been STEEPED in the Catholic Church's (FALSE) Teachings.

As you have Revealed....you are a dedicated Servant of "the Catholic Church" and "it's (corrupt) Doctrine".

As you have been Notified...men STEEPED in the Lords Teachings, men dedicated Servants of "the Lord" and "His Doctrine"...
Reject your Teachings and Catholic Doctrine.

As you have been Notified...no man serving the Lord "according to" His Teaching and His Doctrine Are ashamed, or embarrassed, or Wrong, or beaten .... because you say so.

* Scripture reveals Jesus Gave NOTICE to His own Disciples, that AFTER, Jesus returned TO Heaven, from whence He Came....THEN would His Faithful RECEIVE Baptism of the Holy Spirit...AND THAT, being Baptized with the HOLY SPIRIT..."DID NOT MAKE ANYONE "SINLESS"...

* Clearly, YOU favor being a disciple of the Catholic Church's Teachings and Doctrine.

* Clearly, Not everyone is favorable to being "on your Catholic path"... and have "instead" chosen "Jesus' path".

* Clearly, the Catholic Church is your favored and chosen Church, as the ONLY True Church.

* Clearly, others favor and have chosen their membership in the Temple of the Lord, as the ONLY True Church.

* Get over it. The Lord NEVER call all men to follow you.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

* Clearly, Not everyone is favorable to being "on your Catholic path"... and have "instead" chosen "Jesus' path".

Amen! I was In Bondage {rcc Path} for 27 years! Been in Liberty And FREEdom
Of The "LORD JESUS CHRIST Path" for 42!! Thanks Be To HIS Precious Name!!!

 

[Wrangler]

Be off with you, with your FACE to the corner, with your own humiliating, embarrassing and repetitious false preaching

Posts like what you responded to is why I put him on ignore.

He does preach falsely and he does not even attempt to respond to posts that scrutinize his false doctrine. He just repeats his false doctrine.

 

[Wrangler]

I did do my homework and now to show why you have intentionally misled people about Mary th ewife of Joseph the Carpenters other children.

Well done. The whole line of reasoning of Catholic doctrine is absurd to me. The opposition to a married woman having sex with her husband is deserving of ridicule on its face.

On top of that, to play word games with text that states her known son had both brothers and sisters is laughable.

Finally, the theological significance of all this attention Catholics place on Mary's forever virgin status is non-existent. It's as though they have replaced theology with speculation on top of speculation. Not only was Jesus sinless but he mother had to be also. Well, why not her mother all the way back to Eve?

There is no getting around the basic fact that Jesus was born into a fallen, sin-filled world. To suppose his physical emergence into our world had to be abnormal takes away from his humanity and the humanity of Mary. Most married women like to have sex. Most married women do have sex. God made sex. There is nothing wrong with it. Geesh!