Biblical Mary

[Brakelite]

Deleted... Wrong thread.

 

[Illuminator]

As a former Catholic myself I can say this: Your picture of the wafer is not Holy and it is not Jesus. It is idolatry.

As a former Catholic I say to you: Escape these doctrines of demons and run into the Grace of Christ - PLEASE Read Ephesians and the Gospel of John. The Catholic church will be burned with fire upon the Lord's Return - the Pope and the Vatican are wolves in sheeps clothing as are many pedophile preists.

Are you referring to something I said??? I know the Catholic church is pure evil. There is only One Holy Temple and it is His Body which we whom know Him consist as Living Stones built up into a Spiritual House - the House of God. 1 Peter 2: 1-5

These posts have been reported to the moderators as rule violations. One reason the internet is so flooded with anti-Catholicism is because it makes lots of money.

 

[Illuminator]

Worth Repeating Here = Matthew 12: 46-50

While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."
He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

“Here are my mother and my brothers" serve as models for all those seeking to be more like Christ. Jesus elevates "whoever does the will of my Father" to the level of His mother and brothers who do the will of God. That's the point of all Marian devotion that anti-Catholics are stubbornly blind to. If Jesus was putting His mother down in any way, He would be violating the 4th commandment "Honor your father and mother". The standard abuse of these verses makes Jesus a sinner. Mary is the perfect model of faith who did the will of God perfectly, and did so as a mere human. Matthew 12: 46-50 is not the "gotcha verse" you think it is.

Mary had children with her betrothed husband Joseph - They never divorced and God did not take her away from Joseph.

Not one reformer taught this lie, and no Protestant before the 18th century accepted it. This lie crawled out of the sewage of the false philosophies of the Enlightenment Era that also "enlightened" Europe with formalized atheism and communism. This lie is a 200 year old man made tradition. This lie has infected segments of Protestantism like a virus.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Worth Repeating Here = Matthew 12: 46-50

While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."
He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

Mary had children with her betrothed husband Joseph - They never divorced and God did not take her away from Joseph.

Apparently you haven't been reading the thread.
This is ALSO worth repeating here . . .

The Greek word "Adelphos" used in the NT is replete with meanings, such as brother of same parents, half-brother (same father), cousin, uncle, relative, kinship, same tribe, fellow believer and even a fellow countryman.
A few examples are:
- In Gen. 14:14, Lot is called Abraham’s "brother", even though he was Abraham’s nephew (Gen. 11:26–28).
- In Gen. 29:15, Jacob is referred to as the "brother" of his uncle Laban.
- Brothers Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar’s daughters married their "brethren”, the sons of Kish - who were actually their cousins (1 Chr. 23:21–22).

In fact, of the 344 instances where the word “Adelphos” and all of its variations are used in the NT:
- 41 times (12%) are cases where "Adelphos" clearly or probably refers to a family sibling.
- 47 instances (14%) are cases where "Adelphos" may or may not refer to a family sibling.
- 256 instances (74%) are cases where "Adelphos" cannot or almost certainly does NOT refer to a family sibling.

As for the "named brethren" of Jesus in the NT - NONE of them are said to be His mother's (Mary's) children.
In fact - His "brethren", James and Joses are explicitly said to be children of the OTHER Mary standing near the cross, who is the "adelphe" of Mary, mother of Jesus and wife of Clopas/Alphaeus.
Checkmate.

Yup - that certainly WAS worth repeating . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Catholicism is not Christianity and is at war with the Saints.

Wrong again.

The Catholic Church was built by Jesus Christ some 2000 years ago. He had 12 Apostles - and they also had students and disciples.
One of John's disciples was Ignatius, who succeeded Peter as Bishop of Antioch in the FIRST century.

He wrote the following about that Church on his way to be martyred in Rome at the beginning of the 2nd century:

Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church. (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

In like manner let everyone respect the deacons as they would respect Jesus Christ, and just as they respect the bishop as a type of the Father, and the presbyters as the council of God and college of the apostles. Without these, it cannot be called a Church. I am confident that you accept this, for I have received the exemplar of your love and have it with me in the person of your bishop. His very demeanor is a great lesson and his meekness is his strength. I believe that even the godless do respect him (Letter to the Trallians 3:1-2 [A. D. 110]).


Does this sound like YOUR church?
I didn't think so . . .

 

[Illuminator]

Catholicism is not Christianity and is at war with the Saints.

There is nothing "Christian" in your hatred. Good bye.

 

[Brakelite]

There is a simple explanation to the issue of Jesus' brothers and sisters, without giving to them a symbolic or allegorical meaning. The scripture actually says that His brothers at one time didn't believe He was the Messiah. This negates any fanciful idea that any reference to brothers or sisters must mean spiritual brothers. So while retaining the concept of Mary's continuing virginity, for there is no reason not to, there is no reason to discount the idea that Joseph had his own children by his previous marriage, him now being a widower, thus the brothers and sisters referred to throughout the NT as being Jesus' own family, were half brothers and sisters.

 

[Taken]

Uh-huh - and "Pope" is not a title, but a simple term of endearment.

LOL

 

[Taken]

Luke 1:28 is proof of Mary's sinlessness

Luke 1:
[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Hi Mary, you are highly favored....
Why?
Because;
....you are a Jew
....you live in Judah
....you have a virgin womb
....you are betrothed to a man of the House of David.
....God wants to send His Word to the Lost Jews very soon.
....God has prepared a body for His Word.

Luke 1
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:

Luke 1
[31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Luke 1
[32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
[33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Oh, oh, I see, "lost Jews", "Gods Word", "virgin womb", "Joseph his father, of the House of David" "ruler over Israel"....Awesome!

Luke 1
[38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

OH...and that is ALSO WHY Mary was Highly Favored...
....Faithful
....a godly woman
....And most agreeable to Serve her God!

No need to make up nonsense, and call Mary what she was NOT, when Scripture tells exactly why she was Highly Favored!

Many Servants of God were Favored. Mary gets the boost of "highly", since only she alone was given the Honor to Serve God by having the Lord revealed forth from her womb....
And by her bethrothal to Joseph...and subsequent marriage....MADE JESUS, Lawfully Entitled ( By Jewish Law ) TO SIT on king Davids everlasting Throne! And Also MADE JESUS, a ( Lawful ) descendant of ABRAHAM, and heir to Abraham's Promised LAND!

After Jesus' accession, Jesus' Apostles, Some Disciples, men and women and Mary received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit....Just as Jesus said they would.

Mary's special gift from God?
A blessing;

Luke 1
[28] ... blessed art thou among women.

Mary being "highly favored" says nothing about her being favored "because she was sinless"!
Open the Bible and read the truth...
Mary was a faithful servant.
You tarnish her reputation with nonsense.

 

[Taken]

In verse 5, we see that God keeps company with the "RIGHTEOUS".
[/B]
You like to toss the word ignorant around;
Yet you have not yet come to the understanding of How or When or Why
unrighteous men ...become righteous.

Gee - and I though "NONE" were righteous . . .

Gee... maybe he was refering to certain people that claim they are serving the Lord, using his Name, but corrupting His Word.
Matt 7:21-22

 

[David in NJ]

Luke 1:
[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Hi Mary, you are highly favored....
Why?
Because;
....you are a Jew
....you live in Judah
....you have a virgin womb
....you are betrothed to a man of the House of David.
....God wants to send His Word to the Lost Jews very soon.
....God has prepared a body for His Word.

Luke 1
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:


Luke 1
[31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Luke 1
[32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
[33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Oh, oh, I see, "lost Jews", "Gods Word", "virgin womb", "Joseph his father, of the House of David" "ruler over Israel"....Awesome!

Luke 1
[38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

OH...and that is ALSO WHY Mary was Highly Favored...
....Faithful
....a godly woman
....And most agreeable to Serve her God!

No need to make up nonsense, and call Mary what she was NOT, when Scripture tells exactly why she was Highly Favored!

Many Servants of God were Favored. Mary gets the boost of "highly", since only she alone was given the Honor to Serve God by having the Lord revealed forth from her womb....
And by her bethrothal to Joseph...and subsequent marriage....MADE JESUS, Lawfully Entitled ( By Jewish Law ) TO SIT on king Davids everlasting Throne! And Also MADE JESUS, a ( Lawful ) descendant of ABRAHAM, and heir to Abraham's Promised LAND!

After Jesus' accession, Jesus' Apostles, Some Disciples, men and women and Mary received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit....Just as Jesus said they would.

Mary's special gift from God?
A blessing;

Luke 1
[28] ... blessed art thou among women.

Mary being "highly favored" says nothing about her being favored "because she was sinless"!
Open the Bible and read the truth...
Mary was a faithful servant.
You tarnish her reputation with nonsense.

You can add to this what Jesus said about John the Baptist - " What then did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. This is the one about whom it is written: ‘Behold, I will send My messenger ahead of You, who will prepare Your way before You.’ I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John, yet even the least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”…

But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Mary was under the law.
Mary needed God's Redemption = Salvation through Jesus Christ

 

[David in NJ]

“Here are my mother and my brothers" serve as models for all those seeking to be more like Christ. Jesus elevates "whoever does the will of my Father" to the level of His mother and brothers who do the will of God. That's the point of all Marian devotion that anti-Catholics are stubbornly blind to. If Jesus was putting His mother down in any way, He would be violating the 4th commandment "Honor your father and mother". The standard abuse of these verses makes Jesus a sinner. Mary is the perfect model of faith who did the will of God perfectly, and did so as a mere human. Matthew 12: 46-50 is not the "gotcha verse" you think it is.
Not one reformer taught this lie, and no Protestant before the 18th century accepted it. This lie crawled out of the sewage of the false philosophies of the Enlightenment Era that also "enlightened" Europe with formalized atheism and communism. This lie is a 200 year old man made tradition. This lie has infected segments of Protestantism like a virus.

The sinless Lord Jesus Christ did not put down his mother - Sin put down his mother, for all have sinned.
Mary had no authority over the LORD Jesus Christ. Mary was conceived in sin = Psalm 51:5 and Romans 5:12
So, CLEARLY, Jesus emphasizes this point - Nobody is without sin, "not even my mother and my brothers".
Therefore whoever wants to be part of His Kingdom MUST do the will of my Father, including Mary.
The will of the Father is that the world (including Mary) through Christ might be saved. John 3:16

 

[BreadOfLife]

Luke 1:
[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Hi Mary, you are highly favored....
Why?
Because;
....you are a Jew
....you live in Judah
....you have a virgin womb
....you are betrothed to a man of the House of David.
....God wants to send His Word to the Lost Jews very soon.
....God has prepared a body for His Word.

Luke 1
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:

Luke 1
[31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Luke 1
[32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
[33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Oh, oh, I see, "lost Jews", "Gods Word", "virgin womb", "Joseph his father, of the House of David" "ruler over Israel"....Awesome!

Luke 1
[38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

OH...and that is ALSO WHY Mary was Highly Favored...
....Faithful
....a godly woman
....And most agreeable to Serve her God!

No need to make up nonsense, and call Mary what she was NOT, when Scripture tells exactly why she was Highly Favored!

Many Servants of God were Favored. Mary gets the boost of "highly", since only she alone was given the Honor to Serve God by having the Lord revealed forth from her womb....
And by her bethrothal to Joseph...and subsequent marriage....MADE JESUS, Lawfully Entitled ( By Jewish Law ) TO SIT on king Davids everlasting Throne! And Also MADE JESUS, a ( Lawful ) descendant of ABRAHAM, and heir to Abraham's Promised LAND!

After Jesus' accession, Jesus' Apostles, Some Disciples, men and women and Mary received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit....Just as Jesus said they would.

Mary's special gift from God?
A blessing;

Luke 1
[28] ... blessed art thou among women.

Mary being "highly favored" says nothing about her being favored "because she was sinless"!
Open the Bible and read the truth...
Mary was a faithful servant.
You tarnish her reputation with nonsense.

Uhhhhhh, that's NOT what the Angel said to Mary in Luke 1:28.

First of all - he never said "hail" anything.
He said, "Rejoice, Kecharitomene."

Jerome transliterated this title into the phrase, "Gratia plena" (full of grace).
Protestants later rendered it as "highly favoured."

However, as I have schooled you MANY times - Kecharitomene is translated as, "one having been completely, perfectly and enduringly endowed with grace". It indicates a PAST event with a PERMANENT result. We are not completely, perfectly and enduringly endowed with grace until we are FULLY sanctified - which is a condition that NONE of us is in. The very next verse tells us that Mary was "greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be." (v. 29).

We HAVE to be completely and perfectly holy before entering Heaven because NOTHING impure OR imperfect can enter (Rev. 21:27).
Mary was already in this condition when the Angel came to her.

 

[BreadOfLife]

There is a simple explanation to the issue of Jesus' brothers and sisters, without giving to them a symbolic or allegorical meaning. The scripture actually says that His brothers at one time didn't believe He was the Messiah. This negates any fanciful idea that any reference to brothers or sisters must mean spiritual brothers. So while retaining the concept of Mary's continuing virginity, for there is no reason not to, there is no reason to discount the idea that Joseph had his own children by his previous marriage, him now being a widower, thus the brothers and sisters referred to throughout the NT as being Jesus' own family, were half brothers and sisters.

That's good because I've NEVER made the claim that these "brethren" were "spiritual brothers".
They were definitely related - just NOT uterine siblings.

Your argument - as well as ALL the others who insist that Mary had "other children" circles the drain when we read the different accounts of the Crucifixion.

Observe . . .
Matt. 27:56 says, "…among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee".

Mark 15:40 states, "There were also women looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome".

Finally, John 19:25 states, "But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas (Alphaeus), and Mary Magdalene".

When you compare the different accounts of the crucifixion, they CLEARLY show the mother of James and Joseph(es) to be the wife of Clopas (also called, Alphaeus) – not Mary, the mother of Jesus. She is called an "adelphe" (sister) of Mary, mother of Jesus.
ANY attempt to connect these people as uterine brothers of Jesus are squashed by the Bible.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You like to toss the word ignorant around;
Yet you have not yet come to the understanding of How or When or Why
unrighteous men ...become righteous.

Gee - and I though "NONE" were righteous . . .
Gee... maybe he was refering to certain people that claim they are serving the Lord, using his Name, but corrupting His Word.
Matt 7:21-22

Nope - you Protestants can't have it BOTH ways.
Either there is NONE righteous - or there ARE some who are righteous - and Mary is simply an example of ONE of them.

Take your pick . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL

Look - I know it's embarrassing for you when you are proven wrong - but just take your lumps and move on.
"Pope" is NOT a title of the Bishop of Rome - just a term of endearment.

And that's just a fact.

 

[Taken]

Uhhhhhh, that's NOT what the Angel said to Mary in Luke 1:28.

First of all - he never said "hail" anything.

Spanked!

 

[Taken]

can't have it BOTH ways.
Either there is NONE righteous - or there ARE some who are righteous -

Spiritual Understanding Supersedes your Carnal Understanding.

Col 1
[9] For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

Prayers FOR YOU;

Rom 8:
[7] Because the canal mind enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[Taken]

"Pope" is NOT a title...

You don't have to call your Pope, Pope, or Pope Francis, or Vicar of Christ or any other of list of titles and names Catholics have assigned to themselves...You can refer to him as plain old "Jorge"... just as his name appears in the official Catholic annual directory as; “Jorge Mario Bergoglio".

Splintering Catholics.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Spanked!

No, "Kecharitomene".

Case closed.

Spiritual Understanding Supersedes your Carnal Understanding.

Col 1
[9] For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

Prayers FOR YOU;

Rom 8:
[7] Because the canal mind enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

TRANSLATION:
"You backed me into a corner again that I cannot get out of."

That's what I thought . . .

You don't have to call your Pope, Pope, or Pope Francis, or Vicar of Christ or any other of list of titles and names Catholics have assigned to themselves...You can refer to him as plain old "Jorge"... just as his name appears in the official Catholic annual directory as; “Jorge Mario Bergoglio".

Splintering Catholics.

Like I said - I realize how humiliating this is for you to be proven wrong - but get over it already . . .