God changed Seventh Day Sabbath Worship to First Day of the Week

[Ziggy]

It is the LORD who said that man gathering sticks must be put to death by the whole congregation.

Exo 19:10 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes,
Exo 19:11 And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.
Exo 19:12 And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death:
Exo 19:13 There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.


Luk 8:43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,
Luk 8:44 Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.
Luk 8:45 And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
Luk 8:46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.
Luk 8:47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.
Luk 8:48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.

I believe it was a test.

Thou shalt NOT kill.
But it was in their heart to do so, and God gave them what they desired.

He is our ROCK. He IS Mt. Sinai.

She touched His border and did not die.
why?
She had faith, they did not.

I think they interpreted the law as they chose to hear it.
And Jesus came to set the record straight.

If everyone stoned everyone for committing sins,
who would be left???

The ones MAKING the laws.

HUGS

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You know what I was thinking...

The law stated that no one should go out of his place on the sabbath day. NO ONE.
And yet, apparently a couple guys decided they was going to go for a walk and saw this other guy picking up sticks.
Did they even wait for the next day to run to Moses and have this guy convicted of a crime, that they themselves were guilty of?
Nope, they even stoned him to death by violating the law which says thou shalt not kill.

The Mosaic Law said to rest on the Sabbath day from your labors-- all the rest came from the Mishnah, Sepharim and Tanachim.

The guys walking weren't violating Sabbath from the traditions.- you were allowed to travel a Sabbath days journey. The command was simple- REmember the Sabbath to keep it holy and don't work- everything else was man made tradition.

 

[Ziggy]

The Mosaic Law said to rest on the Sabbath day from your labors-- all the rest came from the Mishnah, Sepharim and Tanachim.

The guys walking weren't violating Sabbath from the traditions.- you were allowed to travel a Sabbath days journey. The command was simple- REmember the Sabbath to keep it holy and don't work- everything else was man made tradition.

They was accusing, pointing fingers, bringing in the judges...
I think they caused quite a commotion over one guy picking up sticks.
They caused the whole community to sin by waking them all up and putting them to work stoning the guy.
They had to pick up STONES... that's more work than a few sticks.

Hugs

 

[farouk]

They was accusing, pointing fingers, bringing in the judges...
I think they caused quite a commotion over one guy picking up sticks.
They caused the whole community to sin by waking them all up and putting them to work stoning the guy.
They had to pick up STONES... that's more work than a few sticks.

Hugs

@Ziggy: It's not just Pharisees who have added a burden of legalism to Scripture...

(PS: Great header text there from Psalm 51...)

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Paul wrote whole entire epistles against keeping the law of Moses as believers, such as Galatians.

Paul wrote whole entire epistles to believers, such as in Galatia, against keeping the law of Moses for salvation, as if Jesus Christ is not the "End of the Law for Righteousness".

 

[post]

Exo 19:10 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes,
Exo 19:11 And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.
Exo 19:12 And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death:
Exo 19:13 There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.


Luk 8:43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,
Luk 8:44 Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.
Luk 8:45 And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
Luk 8:46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.
Luk 8:47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.
Luk 8:48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.

I believe it was a test.

Thou shalt NOT kill.
But it was in their heart to do so, and God gave them what they desired.

He is our ROCK. He IS Mt. Sinai.

She touched His border and did not die.
why?
She had faith, they did not.

I think they interpreted the law as they chose to hear it.
And Jesus came to set the record straight.

If everyone stoned everyone for committing sins,
who would be left???

The ones MAKING the laws.

HUGS

the commandment is 'you shall not murder' not you shall not kill.
He commanded the sacrifice of sinless animals -- killing them.
the penalty for many sins was death, according to the word of God Himself.

look:

Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the LORD said to Moses,
“The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.”
So, as the LORD commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.
(Numbers 15:32-36)​

God does not command anyone to sin to see if they will think better of what God has told them to do.
God does not command anyone to sin. it is not 'unfair' that a person should die for their sin. life and death are in God's hands, and judgement belongs to Him. this man in Numbers 15 was not innocent; he deserves death; we all do. Salvation is mercy; life is mercy.

 

[post]

Paul wrote whole entire epistles to believers, such as in Galatia, against keeping the law of Moses for salvation, as if Jesus Christ is not the "End of the Law for Righteousness".

what??

are you saying Paul wrote Galatians as a farce, or in unbelief??

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

What was engraved on stone was a ministry of death.

Simply not correct and therefore simply not true. What was engraved on stone was the Law, not a ministry of death.
The ministry of death was just that, the administration by mortal priests of blood sacrifices for offerings for sins.
Every man ever born is a priest and administrator of the ministry of death by having killed Jesus our Passover Lamb of God.

 

[Ziggy]

the commandment is 'you shall not murder' not you shall not kill.
He commanded the sacrifice of sinless animals -- killing them.
the penalty for many sins was death, according to the word of God Himself.

look:

Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the LORD said to Moses,
“The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.”
So, as the LORD commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.
(Numbers 15:32-36)​

God does not command anyone to sin to see if they will think better of what God has told them to do.
God does not command anyone to sin. it is not 'unfair' that a person should die for their sin. life and death are in God's hands, and judgement belongs to Him. this man in Numbers 15 was not innocent; he deserves death; we all do. Salvation is mercy; life is mercy.

So they all was without sin and able to cast the first stones then?

Do you see the contradiction?
Either God did not tell Moses to stone him.... remember Moses brought up stoning was a thing the Egyptians did..
If we sacrifice the abomination before the Egyptians eyes, will they not stone us?
Moses asked this of Pharaoh... so who's idea of stoning was it originated with?

And then we have Jesus defying Moses law when it came to the woman caught in adultery,
He who is without sin, cast the first stone.

Jesus was taken outside the camp too..
Reminds me of Stephen.

I'm not arguing with you Post,
I just have questions... and questions lead to answers.. and answers lead to the truth... and the truth shall set you free.

just thinking..
Hugs

 

[post]

So they all was without sin and able to cast the first stones then?

Do you see the contradiction?
Either God did not tell Moses to stone him.... remember Moses brought up stoning was a thing the Egyptians did..
If we sacrifice the abomination before the Egyptians eyes, will they not stone us?
Moses asked this of Pharaoh... so who's idea of stoning was it originated with?

And then we have Jesus defying Moses law when it came to the woman caught in adultery,
He who is without sin, cast the first stone.

Jesus was taken outside the camp too..
Reminds me of Stephen.

I'm not arguing with you Post,
I just have questions... and questions lead to answers.. and answers lead to the truth... and the truth shall set you free.

just thinking..
Hugs

there is a great deal of evidence that the story of Jesus and the woman caught in adultery is a later addition to the Bible - it is not in any of the earliest copies of John.
if your understanding of it causes you to think the Torah is a forgery or Moses was blaspheming the whole time as a false prophet, or that God is lying or tempting people to sin, then i think you really need to rethink either how you understand John 8 or whether John 8 belongs in the Bible at all. if they really do contradict ((i don't suspect they do, in the final analysis)) then i would trust Numbers over John 8, based on the textual criticism, and the fact that God commanding a sinner be put to death isn't an isolated event in Numbers 15. it's all over the OT, and it's in the NT too.

much love, Ziggy =]
it is often the difficult to understand things in the scripture that are the greatest treasures, when we finally discover what they truly mean.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

They was accusing, pointing fingers, bringing in the judges...
I think they caused quite a commotion over one guy picking up sticks.
They caused the whole community to sin by waking them all up and putting them to work stoning the guy.
They had to pick up STONES... that's more work than a few sticks.

Hugs

Well all teh subsequent stuff is not considered work but judicial activity which was allowed.

Once again this is the whole

They was accusing, pointing fingers, bringing in the judges...
I think they caused quite a commotion over one guy picking up sticks.
They caused the whole community to sin by waking them all up and putting them to work stoning the guy.
They had to pick up STONES... that's more work than a few sticks.

Hugs

all that other stuff was judicial activity which was allowed by pharisaic law.

Here is the whole commandment Israel was required to observe:

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[QuickFilly]

Gal 5:18 But if you be led of the Spirit, you are not under the law.

It couldn't be plainer, and yet many stumble.

“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)

 

[Ziggy]

there is a great deal of evidence that the story of Jesus and the woman caught in adultery is a later addition to the Bible - it is not in any of the earliest copies of John.
if your understanding of it causes you to think the Torah is a forgery or Moses was blaspheming the whole time as a false prophet, or that God is lying or tempting people to sin, then i think you really need to rethink either how you understand John 8 or whether John 8 belongs in the Bible at all. if they really do contradict ((i don't suspect they do, in the final analysis)) then i would trust Numbers over John 8, based on the textual criticism, and the fact that God commanding a sinner be put to death isn't an isolated event in Numbers 15. it's all over the OT, and it's in the NT too.

much love, Ziggy =]
it is often the difficult to understand things in the scripture that are the greatest treasures, when we finally discover what they truly mean.

I think Moses made himself a God. Well, God told Moses that he would be God to Pharaoh..
So he was given the authority to be in God's stead.
Showing himself that he was God... except with authority.. He didn't willingly usurp God, God gave him that job.
Ugh.. I wouldn't want that job, and neither did Moses. So He had Aaron his brother be his mouth...
you see where this is going right??
And Aaron it was that performed signs and wonders with the rod...
and the whole world admired Moses and Aaron....

And then there is Jethro...
For some reason this guy is a thorn, a midianite, which God had destroyed in battles later.
The Midianite who was Moses' Father-in law, gave Moses councel on how to organize the "church" .
He told him how to set up judges because the work was too heavy for Moses to do alone.
As if God is too small to be judge over a few people...

Moses would go to the Lord with matters that were heavy, but Jethro... the Midianite...
What is a Midianite?
They lived near Egypt. Even his daughters recognized Moses as an Egyptian.
They even accused Paul of being an Egyptian that led 400 murderers out in the wilderness...

So, some people like to just nibble at the top layer of an onion, and that's ok.
It's when you get near the center the onion gets sweeter and not so.. what is onion? Bitter, acidic, sour...
I like onions.. and all the layers..
It can make you cry though.. it has this ability to defend itself with some liquid that squirts in your eye when you least expect it.
I always find that running an onion under some nice "cold water" helps reduce this defence mechanism.

Everything has layers...
I don't believe God changed any days for people to worship him.
But people think to change times and laws, like calendars and clocks and right and wrong.

Regardless where the path leads me,
I will always believe in and have faith in the creator of Heaven and Earth.
No man can take that from me.
Even if I was to learn that everything I ever learned was a lie...
It would never move me away from my faith.

Let every man be a liar...
Only God is Truth.

Shabbat Shalom

Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

Well all teh subsequent stuff is not considered work but judicial activity which was allowed.

Once again this is the whole


all that other stuff was judicial activity which was allowed by pharisaic law.

Here is the whole commandment Israel was required to observe:

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

So it's ok to do the work of a judiciary on the sabbath?
Even though God says no work is allowed?
Except the priests... and now the judges too?

So what's good for the geese, isn't necessarily good for the gander.
They are exempt from the law.
Wait a minute...
We just went through 4 years of NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW!!! here in the US.
Except the ones making the laws, that is...
Then it doesn't apply to them.

Like Pelosi coming out and telling the House they are mandated to wear masks, all the while not wearing a mask herself.

HYPOCRISY!!!

No wonder Jesus called them all hypocrites...
Just saying..

Hugs

 

[Stumpmaster]

“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)

That's because the law is fulfilled in Christ. When something's purpose has been fulfilled it remains valid but in a different form. The purpose of the law was to train and discipline Israel to obey God. Now that Christ has fulfilled all the law with His obedience we have Him as our example, so that we are saved by grace through faith that He has done all the work on our behalf.

 

[post]

“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)

And yet the church in Galatia was told they would be putting Christ to open shame if they became circumcised - which is in the law, and is greater than sabbath, because a male child is still circumcised if the 8th day falls on a seventh.

So how easy was it for God to save us?
And which is the least part of the letter of the law?

 

[post]

The purpose of the law was to train and discipline Israel to obey God.

It is a law given to prove that they would not obey - so that they must come to Him looking for mercy.
Remember that Exodus 16 comes before Sinai, and it is a test to prove their disobedience. Righteousness does not come through the law. It magnifies sin. The sabbath in particular, is a sign to Israel that they don't sanctify themselves: the LORD does. ((Exodus 31:13, Ezekiel 20:12))

 

[post]

I think Moses made himself a God. Well, God told Moses that he would be God to Pharaoh..
So he was given the authority to be in God's stead.
Showing himself that he was God... except with authority.. He didn't willingly usurp God, God gave him that job.
Ugh.. I wouldn't want that job, and neither did Moses. So He had Aaron his brother be his mouth...
you see where this is going right??
And Aaron it was that performed signs and wonders with the rod...
and the whole world admired Moses and Aaron....

Problem with where that is going is that scripture says Moses was meeker than any man, and that he was more faithful than all of Israel, and everything in the law is 'thus saith the LORD' not 'Moses says...'

Moses didn't want that job either. He tried to resign, several times. That's the kind of man God wanted for that job.

Remember, when scripture is difficult for us to understand, we will find it absolutely wonderful and amazing when we finally do. A treasure in a field takes digging and searching to find out. The Bible isn't 'simple'

 

[Instant]

We read in Acts 13:42, 44
42) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
44) And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Please note that the Jews gathered together on the seventh day of the week [Saturday] and also note the term "next" in Strong's Concordance means "between" therefore, in this case, "next/between sabbaths" would mean the day after Saturday will have to mean Sunday the first day of the week.

Now the most significant and profound Scripture reference concerning the change from Saturday Sabbath to Sunday Sabbath worship [which BTW, can't be seen in the English translation] is Matthew 28:1 that reads:
"In the end of the sabbath as it began to dawn towards the first day of the week came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher."

Please note that the printer is warning the English reader that words in italicize in the KJV Bible, are not in the original manuscripts. Also note that the word "week" is the plural Hebrew word "sabaton" that can be proven.

Hence, Matthew 28:1 can be rendered thus:
"In the end of the sabbaths as it began to dawn towards the first of the sabbaths came Mary..."

Now Matthew 28:1 seems to be in harmony and that God teaches us that He changed the Seventh Day Sabbath Worship to the First Day Sabbath which to us is Sunday.

To God Be The Glory

Nothing you posted shows that God changed the Sabbath from the 7th day to the 1st day. This passage only shows that the Christians would meet on the first day of the week. This was for practical reasons, so they could still attend services at the Synagogue on the Sabbath Day where they could witness for Christ. To say the Sabbath was changed would require that you show that God commands this change and has hallowed the first day of the week. You would have to show that God now says we are to rest on the first day of the week. The 7th day of the week being hallowed pre-dates the Law of Moses and goes back to the time of the creation in Genesis. I see no problem with Christians meeting on the first day of the week, but to claim that God changed the Sabbath to the first day of the week is a serious stretch.

 

[Ziggy]

Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

were is italicized.. why?

So looking at multiple translations...
The law and the prophets were preached and taught up until the time of John the Baptist.
Jesus came to complete everything that was written about him in them.

Jhn 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

NLT: “You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!

ESV: You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,

NIV: You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,

So the beginning of Jesus is the end of Moses.
It's a new day..

But the only way to learn about and come to the knowledge of Jesus is through the scriptures.
They are our school master until one knows Jesus.
I don't think the world is ready to set aside the classroom.
Still too many unruly children needing discipline.
But for those who have graduated, they then become the teachers about the law and the prophets which lead others to graduation.

And the beginning of Jesus is also the end of the prophets....
chew on that one..

And while you chew, understand that history is repeating itself all the time.
So instead of Moses, we have Paul.
Paul also sets down "rules" by which we learn about Jesus according to the scriptures.
Kind of like layers of a burrito..
When Jesus returns we won't need Paul or Peter or any of the NT because Jesus will be here, just like he was there in Jerusalem, like he was there in the Garden, the Tree of Life.

So do we just abolish the law?
No, because we still use it to come to Jerusalem to find Jesus.
It is a path that we have to tread from the beginning to the end.
But we are not ruled by or controlled by the law or the prophets..
their days of authority have ended.
The authority belongs to Christ and the Spirit of the law is what now leads us.
And there will come a day when no man will need to teach us anything..
be cause we will know even as we are known.

We're still in class.
Some are in kindergarten and some are nearing graduation day.
Sometimes we even get kept back a year or two because there are lessons we haven't fully learned yet.
And sometimes that year or two can seem like 20 or even 30 years.

I find myself going from the fire and into the water a lot.
There is this kind of unknown fear walking away from the old and into the new.
Like walking through a door not knowing what's on the other side, and knowing once you've passed through, there is no going back.
What if your wrong?
That is where the trial of faith by fire comes in.
This is where you take up your cross and follow him.
Knowing that God has said: This is my beloved son, hear ye him.
We still want to cling on to the old school teacher.
There is no fear in Love.

But in order to get to love one must walk through fear.
Yea thou I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for thou art with me.

The shadow of death is the law and the prophets.. we have to walk through to get to the other side of the Jordan.

Just thinking...
Hugs