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Lol....so I ask you to show me in Scripture where it says that every Christian gets to decide for themselves what the truth is and you quote back passages that tell me not to judge you or debate you or criticize you or argue with you?????
Why didn't anyone notice this "falling away" until the middle of a 16th century revolt? It would have been a major historical event, so why is there no mention of this "falling away" in any historical record?
Interesting. You admit you don't know who they are but feel qualified to judge them as "confused/deceived people".
In other words, "God's truth" is based on your private opinion what the Scriptures originally said, there is no higher authority than what you think. It always boils down to who has the authority, doesn't it? Can you name one Early Church Father that fell into apostasy? Or do you just make blind assertions without any thought or research? Some of the ECF were taught directly by the Apostles; they should know something about what the Scriptures mean. Your arrogance is typical.
Jesus founded a living, indefectible, indestructible CHURCH, not a book club. If you don't believe what the Bible says about the CHURCH, you don't believe the Bible!
The stupidity of "sola scriptura".
Good morning.
The Spirit is Gods power in action? I know this is a waste of time because you are only going to listen to the men from the 19th century who are teaching you that theory but here it goes:
Hi David.
No, I don't understand how you can think that God's son is called Yahweh from the Old Testament. Reveal that to me if you can (from the Old Testament only). Is the Holy Spirit also called Yahweh? I'm not aware of the Holy Spirit having a name. If Jesus is Yahweh then that means the Trinity theory/doctrine can't be correct!
(We seem to be covering every topic under the sun here!)
Except, as I mentioned when I started this thread, Matthew didn't include the words "baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" in his Gospel - it was added later, corrupting the verse.
What makes you think that nobody noticed?! The Roman Catholic church persecuted a lot of Christians because their beliefs were different to what the Pope and bishops said they should be.
You said they believed in the Trinity, which is contrary to the Bible, therefore I consider them to be confused/deceived people.
Of course not! God's truth is based on God's written word to us - the Bible. That's why I keep quoting from the Bible to support what I understand it to mean. I don't expect anybody to believe a word I say if it is contrary to what the Bible says.
And yet Paul said that "This you know, that all who are in Asia turned away from me; of whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes" (2 Timothy 1:15), so being taught by the Apostles doesn't mean that they won't fall away from the truth and into error.
Read Revelation chapters 2 and 3 to see what Jesus said about the early Church. Revelation 2:14-15 shows that there were some Christians who held to wrong teachings. Paul wrote that there will be a falling away from the truth - he was right.
Not necessarily! While we may learn and understand more as we continue studying God's word, that doesn't mean that we all reach the same level of understanding. We may already understand more than that 95 year old, or we may not. Some start with wrong foundational truths and don't break free of them.
Sorry, but I'm older than you.
(1Ti 3:15) which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Like most people, I learnt from other Christians from local churches, from Christian writers of Bible Studies, a course run by a local church on Bible study, and from Christian teachers on TV. Plus reading and searching the Bible myself, of course. God even spoke to me in a dream once to point me to a page in my Bible after I had been seeking to understand something, but nobody could give me a satisfactory explanation (i.e. it still didn't make much sense to me). I'd love it if He would do that more frequently!
Wow! I'm OLDER than both of you, but DON'T listen to me, THANKS!!
It's not corrupted. The Greek word ecclesia can be translated as assembly or church. In the KJV it is translated as church 115 times and as assembly 3 times. Other translations also use 'assembly' in Matthew 18:17, e.g. Darby, Young's Literal Translation, Literal Standard Version, Hebrew Names Version. Strong's Greek Lexicon interprets it as "a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): — assembly, church".
No, Jesus was saying that whatever the whole church will have decided will have been agreed on in heaven, i.e. the church will have been led by God's Holy Spirit to come to the decision that God wants. As the Cambridgle Bible notes comment: "What was spoken to Peter alone is now spoken to all the disciples, representing the Church. “Whatsoever you as a Church declare binding or declare not binding, that decision shall be ratified in heaven.”"
That's a problem for the church to sort out. Jesus said (verse 18, TLV), "I tell you, whatever you forbid on earth will have been forbidden in heaven and what you permit on earth will have been permitted in heaven". If the church can't come to a decision then they will not have forbidden or permitted anything.
According to what Jesus said, that won't happen, because the decisions taken will have been influenced by the Holy Spirit, with Jesus present in both church assemblies.
I am not an expert on Greek, but I have read in the past that there are no seperate words for he, she or it, that it is all the same word in Greek. The Online Bible Greek Lexicon describes ekeinos as meaning "he, she it, etc.", and says that in the KJV it is translated as "that 99, those 40, he 40, the same 20, they 14, misc 38; 251" (i.e. 'that' 99 times, 'those' 40 times ...; 251 occurrences in total). So the verse you quoted could have been translated as "it will teach you all things".
If God is working in you, then He can teach and remind you of things. The "Counselor" or "Spirit of truth" coming from the Father is God's Holy Spirit in action. It comes from the Father (God). It is not a seperate person, if it was then why does Jesus need to request that his Father send it (him)? Why doesn't he ask the 'Holy Spirit' directly, or just do it himself?
It is Yahweh speaking. His redeemer could be refering to to Israel's redeemer (as the International Standard Version translates it - "the King of Israel and its Redeemer". Yahweh is both Israel's king and redeemer.
Yahweh is saying in Isaiah 44:6 that He (Yahweh) is the only almighty God. He is the first in time and in rank - nobody is greater than Him. As He said a little earlier, in Isaiah 43:10, "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."
Jesus is God's son, and he now has the same immortal divine nature as God, but that does not mean that God is a Trinity of persons. God is God, His son is His son. Christians too are promised to be given the same divine nature and to become adopted sons of God - just because Jesus became His firstborn son before us doesn't mean that God is made up of three persons.
Because it's a misleading translation (translated by Trinity believers who missed out 'a') and it is inconsistent with other verses of Scripture if it truly was "the Word was God".
Because I believe Jesus, not what the Jews mistakenly thought.
Because it's another poor translation (I covered this in a previous post) - 'God' should be 'who'. Why would God need to be justified, seen of angels and received up into glory (received by who)?
