Jesus' Return.....in the Air ....on the Mountain

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GRACE ambassador

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Precious friends, The TWO are NOT ONE, And Must Be Rightly Divided:

(1) Prophecy/Law, gospel of the kingdom, Israel and TWELVE apostles
(Genesis - Acts 8; Hebrews - Revelation KJB!) EARTHLY!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!) From “Things That DIFFER!”:

(2) MYSTERY/GRACE, Gospel Of GRACE, The Body Of CHRIST & ONE apostle
(Acts 9 - Romans - Philemon KJB!) = HEAVENLY! = Departure UP!!
 

Truth7t7

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The Resurrection/Rapture of the Church and the Second Coming of Christ with His saints and angels are indeed two distinct and separate events which have two totally different purposes. The first is for SALVATION and the second is for DAMNATION. Yet there are many Christians who confuse and confound the two events.

As to Christ descending to the Mount of Olives and splitting it, that is a part of the Second Coming of Christ. The Mount of Olives and the plain of Megiddo are not too far from each other. So Christ will descend for the battle of Armageddon (Har Megiddo) and destroy all the wicked at that time.

The Resurrection/Rapture must occur at least seven years BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ. And this is in fact "the Blessed Hope" of Christians. As to the battle of Gog and Magog, that takes place only AFTER the Millennium. So we need to keep events in their proper logical nd chronological order.
Your Claim Is False, The Resurrection And Second Coming Are At The Exact Same Time And Event

When Jesus Christ Returns It Will Be (The End)

As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)

Many disregard (Then Cometh The End)

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Your response has absolutely no substance to refute the presented scriptural truth below, none

The Church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation, and second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, just as Luke 21:25-28 "Clearly" teaches below, there will be no (Pre-Trib Rapture) as dispensationalism falsely teaches, dont be deceived

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

did I suggest the church would not be present on earth for tribulation? If I did suggest It, then I didn’t mean to. To be clearer what I was suggesting was in Luke 21:25-28 the distress of nations with perplexity; the seas and the waves roaring” if eyes are focused on the literal sea and its waves roaring as a sign…then the sea of people and the waves roaring; distress of nations with perplexity…is overlooked because Ephesians 4:14 is not speaking of literal sea in tossed to and fro: “That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;”


Not the literal sea; perplexity of nations; waves roaring in James 1:6-8 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. [7] For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. [8] A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.


Nor a literal sea and waves roaring that foams out its own shame in Jude 1:13-16 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. [14] And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, [15] To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. [16] These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling (have you ever seen the great swelling of the sea?) words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.


So what signs are we looking for in Luke 21:25-28 followed by And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh?
 

Truth7t7

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The Resurrection/Rapture of the Church and the Second Coming of Christ with His saints and angels are indeed two distinct and separate events which have two totally different purposes. The first is for SALVATION and the second is for DAMNATION. Yet there are many Christians who confuse and confound the two events.

As to Christ descending to the Mount of Olives and splitting it, that is a part of the Second Coming of Christ. The Mount of Olives and the plain of Megiddo are not too far from each other. So Christ will descend for the battle of Armageddon (Har Megiddo) and destroy all the wicked at that time.

The Resurrection/Rapture must occur at least seven years BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ. And this is in fact "the Blessed Hope" of Christians. As to the battle of Gog and Magog, that takes place only AFTER the Millennium. So we need to keep events in their proper logical nd chronological order.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 Isn't A Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Dont Be Deceived

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% Yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% Yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% Yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth
; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

GISMYS_7

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Yes!! Those that reject the rapture and do not look for and expect Jesus to catch them up will be left behind on rapture day and they must try to live in the years of the great tribulation under anti-Christ rule Why do things the hard way?
 

Truth7t7

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did I suggest the church would not be present on earth for tribulation? If I did suggest It, then I didn’t mean to. To be clearer what I was suggesting was in Luke 21:25-28 the distress of nations with perplexity; the seas and the waves roaring” if eyes are focused on the literal sea and its waves roaring as a sign…then the sea of people and the waves roaring; distress of nations with perplexity…is overlooked because Ephesians 4:14 is not speaking of literal sea in tossed to and fro: “That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;”


Not the literal sea; perplexity of nations; waves roaring in James 1:6-8 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. [7] For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. [8] A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.


Nor a literal sea and waves roaring that foams out its own shame in Jude 1:13-16 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. [14] And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, [15] To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. [16] These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling (have you ever seen the great swelling of the sea?) words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.


So what signs are we looking for in Luke 21:25-28 followed by And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh?
The scripture is very clear, yes "sea/waves" represents people, signs in the heavens, mens hearts failing for fear of what's coming also seen in Revelation 6:12-17

Revelation 6:12-17KJV
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
 
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Truth7t7

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As to the battle of Gog and Magog, that takes place only AFTER the Millennium. So we need to keep events in their proper logical nd chronological order.
The book of Revelation is taught in "Parallel" teachings of same events, not Chronologically as dispensationalism falsely teaches

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations
which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
 

quietthinker

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“Scripture does not describe anything happening in secret connected to Jesus return but rather will be public and visible to all.“ agree because of Acts 26:19-28 for this was not done in a corner.

Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

Right after Paul speaks of Christ appearing to him and asking “Saul,why do you persecute Me?” When Paul asks “who are you Lord?” “I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you persecute”

Paul goes on after “I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision” which appeared

[20] But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. [21] For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. [22] Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: [23] That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles. [24] And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad. [25] But he said, I am not mad, most noble Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness. “not disobedient to the heavenly vision” which appeared [26] For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner.
Acts 22:4-6 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. [5] As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished. [6] And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me

[27] King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest. [28] Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

Jude 1:23 Lexicon: save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.

Strong's Greek: 726. ἁρπάζω (harpazó) -- to seize, catch up, snatch away
I'm not sure what your point is ViJ?
 

quietthinker

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The Resurrection/Rapture of the Church and the Second Coming of Christ with His saints and angels are indeed two distinct and separate events which have two totally different purposes. The first is for SALVATION and the second is for DAMNATION. Yet there are many Christians who confuse and confound the two events.

As to Christ descending to the Mount of Olives and splitting it, that is a part of the Second Coming of Christ. The Mount of Olives and the plain of Megiddo are not too far from each other. So Christ will descend for the battle of Armageddon (Har Megiddo) and destroy all the wicked at that time.

The Resurrection/Rapture must occur at least seven years BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ. And this is in fact "the Blessed Hope" of Christians. As to the battle of Gog and Magog, that takes place only AFTER the Millennium. So we need to keep events in their proper logical nd chronological order.
These are distinctions you have made Enoch, not the scriptures.

The Resurrection/Rapture must occur at least seven years BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ. And this is in fact "the Blessed Hope" of Christians. As to the battle of Gog and Magog, that takes place only AFTER the Millennium. So we need to keep events in their proper logical nd chronological order.
This is poor eschatological exegesis.

As to Christ descending to the Mount of Olives and splitting it, that is a part of the Second Coming of Christ. The Mount of Olives and the plain of Megiddo are not too far from each other. So Christ will descend for the battle of Armageddon (Har Megiddo) and destroy all the wicked at that time.
As already noted, the events described in 1Thessalonians 4 (second coming) and Zechariah 14 are distinctly different events as is clear from their descriptions....no need to obfuscate.
 

quietthinker

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The Resurrection/Rapture must occur at least seven years BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ. And this is in fact "the Blessed Hope" of Christians. As to the battle of Gog and Magog, that takes place only AFTER the Millennium. So we need to keep events in their proper logical nd chronological order.
The 'Rapture' a coined word which appears nowhere in scripture and an abbreviation of the 'Secret Rapture' is a construct which attempts to divide and confuse the plain descriptions of Jesus return by both by Luke, Paul and Jesus.

In your statement above Enoch, it is coupled with a fudged and erroneous understanding of the seventy week prophecy in Daniel. This exegesis is designed to confuse and make the plain statements of Jesus and the apostles unclear and questionable, often labelling it as 'rightly dividing the word of truth'
 

Enoch111

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This is poor eschatological exegesis.
I feel sorry for those who are so confused that they do not understand Bible prophecy (having been influenced by others). 1 Thessalonians 4 is about the Resurrection/Rapture.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [RESURRECTION] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them [RAPTURE] in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

"In the air" means "not on the ground"!
 

quietthinker

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I feel sorry for those who are so confused that they do not understand Bible prophecy (having been influenced by others). 1 Thessalonians 4 is about the Resurrection/Rapture.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [RESURRECTION] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them [RAPTURE] in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

"In the air" means "not on the ground"!
You couple 'rapture' to Resurrection. By this you mean 'secret Rapture', an event claimed will happen by the vanishing of God's people from the face of the Earth while the rest of the population continues along its way. Is this not your view??

The above text you have quoted has not even a hint of it being 'secret'.....and you know it!
 

Curtis

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This topic is a spill over from backlit's thread 'The Restrainer. And the Restrained'
...........
I would suggest they are talking of seperate events.....the question is what are they? We know that Paul in Thessalonians is speaking of Jesus second coming because there is the reference to the resurrection of Gods people and them meeting him in the air.

The text in Zechariah however where Jesus' feet touch the Mount of Olives has totally different circumstances surrounding it....the mountain splits and becomes a great plain. What do you think that plain might be for?

Anyway, I don't want to derail backlit's thread. Perhaps another one needs starting for this topic.

Go for it brother...I am open to read what you have to share.

.............
There is a similarity in events between Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20

Rev.20 speaks of the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven.
Zech.14 of a vast plain when the mountain splits as the result of Jesus' feet touching it.
Could it be that Jesus has prepared a place for the New Jerusalem to touch down on in Zech. 14?
The similarity here is Jerusalem and the wicked surrounding the city to do battle.
The reference to Gog and Magog in Rev 20, I'm persuaded is the vast multitude of resurrected wicked at the second resurrection which Rev.20 clearly tells us is after the millennium.

Comparing the two texts subsequently highlights the return in 1 Thessalonians 4 as a seperate event to Zech.14 / Rev 20.

Jesus ascended from mount Olive, and the angel told the apostles that this same Jesus will return the same way He left.

In Zechariah 14:5 Jesus returns to Mount Olive, with all the saints.

That is a rapture, and He gathers together the saints in the air, on His way back to that mountain from heaven.

How did he get there? Acts 1:11 tells us how, along with Revelation 1:7.

Acts 1:12 documents the apostles returning from mount Olive after Jesus ascended to heaven.

The millennium reign of Jesus starts after His second coming, and Zechariah 14 shows where He reigns for a thousand years from - Jerusalem.

Why does He split mount Olive in half with a giant chasm in between?

IMO it’s to give the huge city New Jerusalem a place to land when it comes down from heaven in Revelation chapter 22.

And it’s a real city, not a metaphor.

And yes, Jesus rules the nations with a rod of iron, from on the earth.

When Satan is released to deceive the nations and assemble armies for the final battle, they surround the city Jesus rules from, and He destroys them - among other facts that establishes His reign is on the earth.

Maranatha
 
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quietthinker

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There are several things to address and comment on here Curtis but one will do....
And yes, Jesus rules the nations with a rod of iron, from on the earth.
Iron was the strongest metal known to man and symbolised God's love subsequently David could say in Psalm 23:4 'your rod and your staff comfort me'....is this what you had in mind?
 
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Enoch111

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That is a rapture, and He gathers together the saints in the air, on His way back to that mountain from heaven.
This is pure fantasizing. The Resurrection/Rapture cannot possibly be combined with the Second Coming of Christ. It would be an absurdity.

Why is it so difficult to accept what is plainly revealed? Why is false doctrine more palatable than the truth?
 

Enoch111

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You couple 'rapture' to Resurrection.
That is exactly what is revealed in 1 Thess 4. It is the Resurrection/Rapture and indeed it is STRICTLY for the saints. The word "rapture" is equivalent to "caught up together", since the Latin rapimur (Vulgate) = rapture = caught up together.

By this you mean 'secret Rapture', an event claimed will happen by the vanishing of God's people from the face of the Earth while the rest of the population continues along its way. Is this not your view??
You can call it "secret" or "selective" or "elective" or anything else you wish. But the Resurrection/Rapture is not for the unbelieving world.
The above text you have quoted has not even a hint of it being 'secret'.....and you know it!
Since I emphasized "in the air" that should have already informed you that the Resurrection/Rapture is strictly for the saints. It is only many years later that Christ descends WITH His saints and angels at His Second Coming in order to execute judgment.
 

VictoryinJesus

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I'm not sure what your point is ViJ?

no point other than, I don’t think it is some secret rapture where People vanish and others go right along speculating where they vanished to. The reason for bringing Paul into it was how many times he said it was clearly seen who he was. How he kept saying you have seen this change which was no secret.
Galatians 1:23-24 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed. [24] And they glorified God in me.

I mean it is Significant to me that Stephen said in Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

Saul; there at the stoning of Stephen echoing in Acts 17:24 the same: God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

You said “Scripture does not describe anything happening in secret connected to Jesus return but rather will be public and visible to all.” Only meant: is it not visible when someone turns to God and the Spirit of God abides in the them, and them in Him? Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Like Paul …is it not visible? Christ in Him, and him in Christ echoing his brother Stephen whom Saul persecuted. What a turn around, it persuades me.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

“To battle” sounds like warfare?
2 Corinthians 10:3-6 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; [6] And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

1 Timothy 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

Ephesians 6:11-18 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. [13] Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; [15] And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; [16] Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. [17] And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: [18] Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

(deceive the nations) is to battle?
Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle,
 

Truman

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So, we get raptured, the world does it's insanity; at some point down the road, Jesus and us return to deal with the world. To remove the evil from the world. The army on the clouds vision would fit this. Wow!
 

VictoryinJesus

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There are several things to address and comment on here Curtis but one will do....

Iron was the strongest metal known to man and symbolised God's love subsequently David could say in Psalm 23:4 'your rod and your staff comfort me'....is this what you had in mind?
Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.