Can the Soul Die?

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I'm not saying that, Jesus is. "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:46. I believe Jesus, don't you?

I disagree with you there. Jesus doesn't contradict scripture. Scripture, meaning the inspired word of God that God had written down says, the Soul that is sinning dies. The scriptures also say that the first man Adam died, Jesus didn't contradict that. The word Soul is talking about a person, so either you believe the first person Adam died or you don't believe he did, which is it that you believe?
The eternal punishment is death, not eternal life. Eternal life is a reward for the righteous not a punishment for the unrighteous. So if you believe a person who is considered unrighteous is still living somewhere. Are you then saying he/she is still living and will continue to live in some kind of torture? If so you are saying that they are still alive and that death doesn't exist but instead is just a doorway to another plain of existence aren't you? Aren't you saying that when God said to Adam he would die if he ate from the forbidden tree is a lie if you don't believe in death. Death is the opposite of life isn't it? Life means you are still conscious or aware of your surroundings death which is the opposite of life means you're not aware or conscious of your surroundings. Life and death are not the same they are opposite.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

I'm not saying that, Jesus is. "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:46. I believe Jesus, don't you?

What you need to do is a detailed study into the texts available and read them not only in context but for what they say ( as opposed to what you want to hear or think they say)

Eternal" is never ending ( doesn't mean it cannot be destroyed, that's another word)

Punishment is the final state ( not "punishing" as in an ongoing event)

"eternal punishment" simply means a state of punishment ( which the punishment of sin is death) that will never end. ( no return from the 2nd death)

People often don't see the obvious contradiction that if someone was being "eternally punished" would mean that have "eternal life" ( obviously because nobody is going to be "hurt" by boiling a dead corpse) and that "eternal life" would be in a 'state" of punishment.

But "everybody" doesn't get eternal life- only those in the book of life get "eternal life".

Yeah they get the lake of fine and an agonizing death ( process) but it ends in death. (cessation of existence)

 

[BroRando]

The truth is simple...

"For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)


The Lie is complicated....

At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die. (Genesis 3:4)

Consider the Source to your beliefs..... "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten." (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

 

[MatthewG]

No matter how you believe on this topic; the fact of the matter is you will believe how you will believe.

 

[DPMartin]

The word “soul” in the Bible is a translation of the Hebrew word neʹphesh and the Greek word psy·kheʹ. The Hebrew word literally means “a creature that breathes,” and the Greek word means “a living being.” Many Bible translations render the words neʹphesh and psy·kheʹ differently according to the context, using words such as soul, life, person, creature, or body.

"And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7)

Adam wasn't given a soul as many religions teach, but rather, Adam, Became a Living Soul. Notice how others translated this verse @ (Genesis 2:7) | New International Version Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

• Young's Literal Translation And Jehovah God formeth the man -- dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.
• American Standard Version And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
• World English Bible Yahweh God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
• NWT And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person.

The punishment for disobedience was Death, not an eternal life of punishment. "But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” (Genesis 2:17)

• "In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”(Genesis 3:19)
• “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” —Ezekiel 18: 4, 20, King James Version.

“Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.” (Exodus 31:14 KJV)

Note: Although many Bible translations use the terms “dead body” or “dead person” in some verses, the original Hebrew uses the word neʹphesh, or “soul.”


Many Religions teach that the soul never dies. It that was true, then the Resurrection would be an unnecessary act.

• Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” (John 11:23-25)
• The Apostles Paul also stated, "And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a Resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15) Is There Hope for the Dead?

here's your answer:
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[MatthewG]

DPMartin; that word in hell means Gehenna.

What does that mean?

Here are some thoughts on it

1067 géenna (a transliteration of the Hebrew term, Gêhinnōm, "the valley of Hinnom") – Gehenna, i.e. hell (also referred to as the "lake of fire" in Revelation).

Gehenna ("hell"), the place of post-resurrection torment (judgment), refers strictly to the everlasting abode of the unredeemed where they experience divine judgment in their individual resurrection-bodies. Each of the unredeemed receives one at the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev 20:11-15), i.e. a body that "matches" their capacity for torment relating to their (unique) judgment.


This is according to Biblehub; which - Gehenna and the Lake of Fire are two different things in my opinion as well.


So it seems they would receive some type of body that is lesser than those who believe. I personally do not believe in eternal punishment or anything like that but we receive our due punishment of our own life choices; and having no faith has an effect on the spiritual part of a person in the eternal aspect.

No one can really tell what the resurrection after this life is like; but there will be one given to the unbeliever in which God will judge justly and rightly and give what is needed to them as far as a spiritual body which is the same result for believers.

That is my opinion and understanding from what the bible itself says.

Some being on the outside of the heavenly Jerusalem and some being on the inside of the heavenly Jerusalem just like Sheol/Hell had to parts Paradise and Prison; so does the Heavenly Realm now too; having two parts to it.

 

[LTJMP14]

What you need to do is a detailed study into the texts available and read them not only in context but for what they say ( as opposed to what you want to hear or think they say)

Eternal" is never ending ( doesn't mean it cannot be destroyed, that's another word)

Punishment is the final state ( not "punishing" as in an ongoing event)

"eternal punishment" simply means a state of punishment ( which the punishment of sin is death) that will never end. ( no return from the 2nd death)

People often don't see the obvious contradiction that if someone was being "eternally punished" would mean that have "eternal life" ( obviously because nobody is going to be "hurt" by boiling a dead corpse) and that "eternal life" would be in a 'state" of punishment.

But "everybody" doesn't get eternal life- only those in the book of life get "eternal life".

Yeah they get the lake of fine and an agonizing death ( process) but it ends in death. (cessation of existence)

Gee, for someone to suggest I read the text to see what you think it says "as opposed to what want to hear or think they say", you've certainly convinced me that you're reading the text as to how you want it to speak "as opposed to what you want [orhers] to hear or think they say."

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Gee, for someone to suggest I read the text to see what you think it says "as opposed to what want to hear or think they say", you've certainly convinced me that you're reading the text as to how you want it to speak "as opposed to what you want [orhers] to hear or think they say."

No, I'm telling you what it actually says and means.

If you feel that is in error then by all means refute it with scripture.

I have no problem with reading as written, do you?

 

[LTJMP14]

No, I'm telling you what it actually says and means.

If you feel that is in error then by all means refute it with scripture.

I have no problem with reading as written, do you?

"the spirit returns to God who gave it." Ecclesiastese 12:7.

"And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Daniel 12:2.

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:46.

The Bible is clear: the soul is immortal and lives on forever either with God or separated from God.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

"the spirit returns to God who gave it." Ecclesiastese 12:7.

That is true but doesn't address the issue on the table because when that was written, The white throne has not yet happened.

"And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Daniel 12:2.

That's right, no chance of further REDEMPTION thus "everlasting" abhorrence. ( and that leads to death in the lake)

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:46.

Yes punishment as the act ( completed) not eternal "punishing" as in continuous for all eternity

The Bible is clear: the soul is immortal and lives on forever either with God or separated from God.

Yes it is clear, its your understanding of it I am correcting as I just did.

Got more on the subject? Lets correct all of them while we're at it.

 

[farouk]

"the spirit returns to God who gave it." Ecclesiastese 12:7.

"And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Daniel 12:2.

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:46.

The Bible is clear: the soul is immortal and lives on forever either with God or separated from God.

....and therefore being active in the Gospel for the benefit of others is so important... (Matthew 28) .

 

[LTJMP14]

That is true but doesn't address the issue on the table because when that was written, The white throne has not yet happened.



That's right, no chance of further REDEMPTION thus "everlasting" abhorrence. ( and that leads to death in the lake)




Yes punishment as the act ( completed) not eternal "punishing" as in continuous for all eternity




Yes it is clear, its your understanding of it I am correcting as I just did.

Got more on the subject? Lets correct all of them while we're at it.

What denomination are you, or taught you?

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

What denomination are you, or taught you?

I claim no adherence to any of "mans" denominations but was "taught" as a member by several ( all the way from the snake handling charismatics to the RCC so I have had a personal broad spectrum of them all)- it was when I cast "churchianity" and all its baggage away and studied scripture academically and with others of Apologia did the false doctrinal teachings of many churches peel away like layers of the onion under legitimate scrutiny.

I would advise you to do the same.

 

[LTJMP14]

I claim no adherence to any of "mans" denominations but was "taught" as a member by several ( all the way from the snake handling charismatics to the RCC so I have had a personal broad spectrum of them all)- it was when I cast "churchianity" and all its baggage away and studied scripture academically and with others of Apologia did the false doctrinal teachings of many churches peel away like layers of the onion under legitimate scrutiny.

I would advise you to do the same.

I don't agree with annihilationism, or soul sleep, and I believe I've showed you we're you are wrong. So, I thank you and wholeheartedly agree to disagree.

 

[marks]

That eternal punishment is eternal death.

No, actually, what it says there is "eternal torment", using the same word as in 1 John where it says, "fear hath torment". It's not saying fear has death, rather, fear has torment. And so in Matthew, these go away into eternal torment.

If anyone cares! Many don't seem to care about things like this.

Much love!

 

[marks]

That Abraham yet lives is attested by Jesus as He points us to YHWH speaking to Moses at the burning bush, I AM the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. God is the God of the living and not the dead.

Much love!

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

I don't agree with annihilationism, or soul sleep, and I believe I've showed you we're you are wrong. So, I thank you and wholeheartedly agree to disagree.

What you "agree with" is of no concern as there is no private interpretation of scripture and your "belief" is also incorrect ( although I do not doubt your sincerity in that belief).

"Soul Sleep" is not annihilation and is a different subject in and of itself and both are non sequitur in relation to the 2nd death as is being discussed here.

At best your "points" are disjointed and not relative to the subject or question.

 

[LTJMP14]

I disagree with you there. Jesus doesn't contradict scripture. Scripture, meaning the inspired word of God that God had written down says, the Soul that is sinning dies. The scriptures also say that the first man Adam died, Jesus didn't contradict that. The word Soul is talking about a person, so either you believe the first person Adam died or you don't believe he did, which is it that you believe?
The eternal punishment is death, not eternal life. Eternal life is a reward for the righteous not a punishment for the unrighteous. So if you believe a person who is considered unrighteous is still living somewhere. Are you then saying he/she is still living and will continue to live in some kind of torture? If so you are saying that they are still alive and that death doesn't exist but instead is just a doorway to another plain of existence aren't you? Aren't you saying that when God said to Adam he would die if he ate from the forbidden tree is a lie if you don't believe in death. Death is the opposite of life isn't it? Life means you are still conscious or aware of your surroundings death which is the opposite of life means you're not aware or conscious of your surroundings. Life and death are not the same they are opposite.

Yes, all have sinned therefore all will experirnce physical death. The souls of all survive after the body dies. The souls of the saved live forever in peace and glory with the Lord. The souls of the damned live forever in punishment and separation from the Lord. I don't believe in annihilationism or soul sleep. So, thank you and I wholeheartedly agree to disagree.

 

[LTJMP14]

What you "agree with" is of no concern as there is no private interpretation of scripture and your "belief" is also incorrect ( although I do not doubt your sincerity in that belief).

"Soul Sleep" is not annihilation and is a different subject in and of itself and both are non sequitur in relation to the 2nd death as is being discussed here.

At best your "points" are disjointed and not relative to the subject or question.

My positionot interpretation is not privately held and is not my own, but is shared by hundreds of millions of Christians throughout the ages. Thanks again.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Yes, all have sinned therefore all will experirnce physical death.

What about those here at the 7th trump?

The souls of the damned live forever in punishment and separation from the Lord.

Where is that scripture please?