Interesting Verses - Not The Trinity

[MatthewG]

On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. (John 14:20)

That day Jesus is talking about here is the day of resurrection.

Thomas was correct in His saying, of my Lord and My God. (Meaning that to seeing the One was to see the Two.)

To see Jesus was to see the Father (With-in the Lord Jesus Christ - Flesh) as Jesus was the image of the Father.

Not the trinity.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

John 20:
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”​

To see Jesus Christ then was to see the Father as Jesus was the expressed image of the Father; Interesting right? it doesn't support the trinity claims if you take the whole book of John and look at it.

One more Scripture:

John 14:
5“Lord,” said Thomas, “we do not know where You are going, so how can we know the way?”
6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. 7If you had known Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.”
8Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.”
9Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in Me, performing His works.​

 

[DPMartin]

On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. (John 14:20)

That day Jesus is talking about here is the day of resurrection.

Thomas was correct in His saying, of my Lord and My God. (Meaning that to seeing the One was to see the Two.)

To see Jesus was to see the Father (With-in the Lord Jesus Christ - Flesh) as Jesus was the image of the Father.

Not the trinity.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

John 20:
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”​

To see Jesus Christ then was to see the Father as Jesus was the expressed image of the Father; Interesting right? it doesn't support the trinity claims if you take the whole book of John and look at it.

One more Scripture:

John 14:
5“Lord,” said Thomas, “we do not know where You are going, so how can we know the way?”
6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. 7If you had known Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.”
8Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.”
9Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in Me, performing His works.​

you can't know the Lord because you just don't get that basics

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:


Mat_28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


three distinctions one from another not without the others of which Jesus declares. hence God telling you about Himself. how can you know more about God then He does?


and the reason why i say you don't know the Lord is because by your postings you don't know Spirit.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello DpMartin,

My name is Matthew. You may have your own opinions about this subject if you would like and will not have any objections to what you may freely post here on this thread, just desire to keep it civil without pointing fingers, and accusing others, which seems to be your direction.

If that is your direction you may continue to do so however, will not respond further to your directives. May you have a good day, may the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you, the love of God, and the fellowship of the holy spirit, Martin.

- With love ; Matthew.

 

[marks]

Thomas was correct in His saying, of my Lord and My God.

Wasn't Thomas addressing Jesus as both Lord and God? That's how it reads to me.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Another verse not in the Bible (until corrupted). Nevertheless, it is still not the doctrine of the trinity as much as trinitarians wish it was. They were not able to convince themselves to corrupt Scripture enough to actually put the trinity in the Bible explicitly.

 

[Wrangler]

Wasn't Thomas addressing Jesus as both Lord and God? That's how it reads to me.

Much love!

Other translations read differently. In any event it is an exclamatory statement not a declarative statement. When I drop my toast, I am not declaring that the toast is literally feces, when I exclaim "Oh crap."

 

[marks]

Other translations read differently. In any event it is an exclamatory statement not a declarative statement. When I drop my toast, I am not declaring that the toast is literally feces, when I exclaim "Oh crap."

I don't think Thomas was making a vain exclamation, like when one of us drops our toast on the floor. I see no evidence of anything like that. We modern Americans may be rather loose with vulgar language, but that doesn't mean these men were.

Vain and empty declarations of "my Lord", and, "my God", but not actually addressing the One to Whom he speaks?

No, I think that reflects on the poor way some of us speak, but I see nothing other than Thomas addressing Jesus, Who stands in front of His.

For Thomas, "My God!" in the OMG sense, I think would have been sacrilege to him. The Name of the Lord in vain, that sort of thing.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

If one takes time to read the original post they will see what is being said. Thank you wrangler and marks for your comments, and just trying to present something that has been in the bible for many generations.

It is up to you to take time to read, and consider the original post.

It is not my agenda to derive other persons and their belief system it is simply sharing something very interesting that maybe someone has maybe never considered before.

 

[DPMartin]

Another verse not in the Bible (until corrupted). Nevertheless, it is still not the doctrine of the trinity as much as trinitarians wish it was. They were not able to convince themselves to corrupt Scripture enough to actually put the trinity in the Bible explicitly.

well if what you say is true then you don't believe anything or trust anything in the bible so, why are you here? seeing you must not be of Christian belief, as some say Faith. and if not this isn't your section of the site to be in.

 

[MatthewG]

To anyone who reads this post below.

Hello you,

When it comes to baptism,

None of that bothers me personally. Believe people can be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost; in the name of Jesus; of the Father, they can be sprinkled with water, and have anyone they desire to dunk them into water.

There is something wonderful for professing believers to experience when they are committing their life in to devotion of desiring to worship God, and live by the spirit, in thankfulness for the Victory of the Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God.

That is my view on the baptism; If you read the bible you can see the one who really does the baptism is Jesus Christ Himself - I believe considering what the text says when John the Baptist stated 'The one to come will baptize you in the holy spirit, and fire'

Thank you for taking time to read, friend.

 

[amadeus]

@MatthewG One more interesting verse to consider which understood in one way would indicate more than three persons in the One God or...?

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11

So then as "these" become one as Jesus and the Father are one, then we move up from Trinity to Multiplicity with perhaps a multitude of person within God...

Hmmm?

 

[Wrangler]

I don't think Thomas was making a vain exclamation, like when one of us drops our toast on the floor. I see no evidence of anything like that.

Friend, the evidence is steering you in the face. Only vain thing is denying it is a non-vain exclamatory statement but a non-declarative statement.

Said differently, it is vain to impose trinitarian doctrine onto unitarian text, which every single author of the Bible was a monotheist Jew.

Jesus Himself said his Father is is one true God who knows more, is greater than him, sent him and told him what to say. The resurrected Jesus said he had not yet gone to his God. And in Revelations 1, the resurrected Jesus said he got a revelation from God.

It is in vain to suppose Thomas’ comment is anything but exclamatory and meant to violate the Sh’ma, 1C and all these words of Jesus.

 

[marks]

Said differently, it is vain to impose trinitarian doctrine onto unitarian text, which every single author of the Bible was a monotheist Jew.

I'm just commenting on what he said. Whatever conclusions, draw them as you will.

Much love!

 

[marks]

which every single author of the Bible was a monotheist Jew

And Thomas apparently recognized that the one true God had come to them.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It is in vain to suppose Thomas’ comment is anything but exclamatory and meant to violate the Sh’ma, 1C and all these words of Jesus.

"My God", standing in front of Jesus, as a way to say "WOW!!"

 

[Wrangler]

well if what you say is true then you don't believe anything or trust anything in the bible so, why are you here? seeing you must not be of Christian belief, as some say Faith. and if not this isn't your section of the site to be in.

Such is the power of the trinitarian delusion that if one does not accept the heresy, one cannot even accept Jesus as one's master (lord) and Savior while recognizing he is not his father who alone is the LORD God almighty who raised Jesus, his servant from the dead.

 

[Wrangler]

And Thomas apparently recognized that the one true God had come to them.

Much love!

So Thomas is the authority on who the one true God is and not Jesus, huh? I'll take Jesus words over yours or anyone else's. Thanks.

 

[marks]

So Thomas is the authority on who the one true God is and not Jesus, huh? I'll take Jesus words over yours or anyone else's. Thanks.

Is that what I said? Or are you putting words into my mouth so I appear to be saying what I'm not?

Jesus was quit remiss if Thomas were calling Him his God, and Jesus didn't correct him. Unless, well, can you think of any reason why Jesus would not correct Him? Was Jesus less or more honorable than the angel who told John to not worship the angel?

Besides, Jesus said who He is, and the Jews understood, that was one of the reasons they wanted to kill Him. Because you, a man, make yourself to be God. That was their complaint. Do we somehow know better what Jesus was saying than those who stood in front of Him listening to Him? In their native language?

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

esus was quit remiss if Thomas were calling Him his God, and Jesus didn't correct him.

David was called God and also did not correct him. That Jesus did not correct him supports the obvious context that what was spoken was an exclamatory statement. I've surprised people and they exclaim 'Oh my God!' but I deny that I've been remiss in not correcting them. It's obvious they do not mean to state that I am God by virtue of my surprise.

 

[marks]

David was called God and also did not correct him.

When was that?

Much love!