Holiness, Apostolic and Pentecostal Denominations?

[IanLC]

I belong to the United Holy Church of America(UHCA) we are the oldest African-American holiness church organization in the United States. We beleive in the same things as other Christian churches. We are biblicaly founded and our doctrine aligns with the word of God. We speak in tongues under the inspiration and aunction of the Holy Spirit, baptize in the name of Jesus, preach salvation in Jesus Christ, teach, express the gifts of the Holy Spirit and express our praise and glory to God in dance (as we call it a shout). We stress holiness in the lives of the people of God. Why is there so much back lash against we who belong to Holiness, Apostolic and Penetecostal denominations? We are not chrismatics that is another denomination! Some of their beliefs are different than our own. Why is there such stigma and in al naturality intolerance and not the love of Christ toward us?

 

[charlesj]

I belong to the United Holy Church of America(UHCA) we are the oldest African-American holiness church organization in the United States. We beleive in the same things as other Christian churches. We are biblicaly founded and our doctrine aligns with the word of God. We speak in tongues under the inspiration and aunction of the Holy Spirit, baptize in the name of Jesus, preach salvation in Jesus Christ, teach, express the gifts of the Holy Spirit and express our praise and glory to God in dance (as we call it a shout). We stress holiness in the lives of the people of God. Why is there so much back lash against we who belong to Holiness, Apostolic and Penetecostal denominations? We are not chrismatics that is another denomination! Some of their beliefs are different than our own. Why is there such stigma and in al naturality intolerance and not the love of Christ toward us?

Hello
UHCAIan:


I personally don’t have anything against you or your group. I can really say that I love you in Christ.


Your group (UHCA) is not much different than the 38,000+ denominations who ALL say
they are going by the Word of the Lord.

I am very familiar with the Pentecostals as I started out Pentecostal in 1969 and
even went to a Pentecostal Bible College.
I even spoke “in tongues” (which I say now “is of the flesh.”) I can
still speak in tongues if I wanted to, but haven’t since 1974.


It took me about four years of study to realize how far off the Pentecostals were from the Word of God.
I’ve seen all kinds of stuff done in their services etc. Many times, I’ve seen a preacher “blow” on someone
and they fall to the floor, “slain in the sprit.” (I’ve always thought it was bad breath. LOL)


You will never see the first century miracles done by Jesus and His apostles done today. Have you
ever seen anyone raised from the dead? Have you ever seen anyone who has lost a leg and it restored? I’ve seen people wheeled by nurses into
services for healing. Those same people would leave crying and without a change. I’ve seen this MANY times in the past.


When I was in the Pentecostal movement some told me the dead was being raised in Africa. I had a missionary friend that was in Africa
and the Pentecostals told him the dead were being raised in America. If you notice, “its ALWAYS someplace else
these great miracles are being done.” My missionary friend told them, well when I was in America, they told me the dead was being raised in Africa!


I do think the Pentecostals are very sincere loving people, but confused in their doctrine(s). All
the signs, mighty deeds and wonders done by the apostles were for “confirmation of the Word.” (2Cor 12:12)


We ALL need to go back to the Word of God for our instruction(s) and training.


I have much more to say to you, but will do it in time.


May the Lord be with US as we study His Word,

Your servant in Christ,


charlesj

 

[Angelina]

Hi UHCAIan!

I'm from a Pentecostal background also...our stream moves powerfully in the gifts and impartation of the Holy Spirit ..I was not aware that there was any stigma or intolerance attached to being pentecostal from other denomination types? :huh:

One of my good friends, is a youth pastor in the Baptist Church and he would always laugh when I got all excited about something and I would let out a "Glory" or "Thank you Jesus!" because they are more conservative than we are ...which has never been a problem...so far.

I have also represented my Church as the "Prayer Warrior" for combined Church prayer nights which included Baptists, Presbyterian, Salvation Army, AOG, Anglican and Episcopalian Pastors and leaders. The only thing I was mindful of though, was not to offend anyone by my freedom in Christ.
At the same time also....not allowing that to hinder me from praying according to the will of God.

I think that some mainline denominations may perceive us to be these happy clappy, hang from the light-shade types...but we have more depth than that...as you already know.

Does it really matter what others think?

Bless you! :)

 

[Miss Hepburn]

I belong to the United Holy Church of America(UHCA) we are the oldest African-American holiness church organization in the United States. We beleive in the same things as other Christian churches. We are biblicaly founded and our doctrine aligns with the word of God. We speak in tongues under the inspiration and aunction of the Holy Spirit, baptize in the name of Jesus, preach salvation in Jesus Christ, teach, express the gifts of the Holy Spirit and express our praise and glory to God in dance (as we call it a shout). We stress holiness in the lives of the people of God. Why is there so much back lash against we who belong to Holiness, Apostolic and Penetecostal denominations? We are not chrismatics that is another denomination! Some of their beliefs are different than our own. Why is there such stigma and in al naturality intolerance and not the love of Christ toward us?

Hi Ian,
I say if you are into being a member of any church - go where the love is.
Yours sounds wonderful.
Who cares what others think or if they are intolerant of y'all ?
You don't need an answer that you already know , brother--as to why others do not show the love of Christ toward y'all, now do you?
:) Miss Hepburn

 

[IanLC]

Hello
UHCAIan:


I personally don’t have anything against you or your group. I can really say that I love you in Christ.


Your group (UHCA) is not much different than the 38,000+ denominations who ALL say
they are going by the Word of the Lord.

I am very familiar with the Pentecostals as I started out Pentecostal in 1969 and
even went to a Pentecostal Bible College.
I even spoke “in tongues” (which I say now “is of the flesh.”) I can
still speak in tongues if I wanted to, but haven’t since 1974.


It took me about four years of study to realize how far off the Pentecostals were from the Word of God.
I’ve seen all kinds of stuff done in their services etc. Many times, I’ve seen a preacher “blow” on someone
and they fall to the floor, “slain in the sprit.” (I’ve always thought it was bad breath. LOL)


You will never see the first century miracles done by Jesus and His apostles done today. Have you
ever seen anyone raised from the dead? Have you ever seen anyone who has lost a leg and it restored? I’ve seen people wheeled by nurses into
services for healing. Those same people would leave crying and without a change. I’ve seen this MANY times in the past.


When I was in the Pentecostal movement some told me the dead was being raised in Africa. I had a missionary friend that was in Africa
and the Pentecostals told him the dead were being raised in America. If you notice, “its ALWAYS someplace else
these great miracles are being done.” My missionary friend told them, well when I was in America, they told me the dead was being raised in Africa!


I do think the Pentecostals are very sincere loving people, but confused in their doctrine(s). All
the signs, mighty deeds and wonders done by the apostles were for “confirmation of the Word.” (2Cor 12:12)


We ALL need to go back to the Word of God for our instruction(s) and training.


I have much more to say to you, but will do it in time.


May the Lord be with US as we study His Word,

Your servant in Christ,


charlesj

My Grandmother was raised from the dead by the prayers of the righteous and healing power of Jesus Christ. I feel but I do not know that you went to a church regardless if it was pentecostal or not that was stuck in emotion. I have seen healing, deliverance, and the manifestation of God with in my church. I am sorry but I know that the spirit of Jesus visits and takes up residency in my life and in our church when we gather to corporatly
and in unity of the love of Jesus Christ to worship God. We are not far from the word of God or deceived we are in the word of god. and that leads our lives!

Shalom, and thank you for your input

Thank you Angelina and Ms Hepburn for your sincere an kind words. I can tell the fruits of the Spirit reside in you!

 

[Foreigner]

Hello
UHCAIan:


I personally don’t have anything against you or your group. I can really say that I love you in Christ.


Your group (UHCA) is not much different than the 38,000+ denominations who ALL say
they are going by the Word of the Lord.

I am very familiar with the Pentecostals as I started out Pentecostal in 1969 and
even went to a Pentecostal Bible College.
I even spoke “in tongues” (which I say now “is of the flesh.”) I can
still speak in tongues if I wanted to, but haven’t since 1974.


It took me about four years of study to realize how far off the Pentecostals were from the Word of God.
I’ve seen all kinds of stuff done in their services etc. Many times, I’ve seen a preacher “blow” on someone
and they fall to the floor, “slain in the sprit.” (I’ve always thought it was bad breath. LOL)


You will never see the first century miracles done by Jesus and His apostles done today. Have you
ever seen anyone raised from the dead? Have you ever seen anyone who has lost a leg and it restored? I’ve seen people wheeled by nurses into
services for healing. Those same people would leave crying and without a change. I’ve seen this MANY times in the past.


When I was in the Pentecostal movement some told me the dead was being raised in Africa. I had a missionary friend that was in Africa
and the Pentecostals told him the dead were being raised in America. If you notice, “its ALWAYS someplace else
these great miracles are being done.” My missionary friend told them, well when I was in America, they told me the dead was being raised in Africa!


I do think the Pentecostals are very sincere loving people, but confused in their doctrine(s). All
the signs, mighty deeds and wonders done by the apostles were for “confirmation of the Word.” (2Cor 12:12)


We ALL need to go back to the Word of God for our instruction(s) and training.


I have much more to say to you, but will do it in time.


May the Lord be with US as we study His Word,

Your servant in Christ,


charlesj

-- Ah yes, the dreaded "blanket condemnation."
Apparently you do not realize that the "Pentecostal" paint brush does not fairly paint all churches that practice what you have condemned.

That is like condemning all Lutheran churches just because the ECLA has decided to ordain gay ministers as long as they are in monogamous relationships.

I grew up in the Catholic church and had horrendous experiences. At first I thought it was just my home church but when I went to multiple other churches in other cities and encountered the same type of non-scriptural systems, I realized it was the policy and practice of ALL Catholics from the Pope on down.

After I left the Catholic church I joined a 'Pentecostal" church, fully expecting to be just as disillusioned and doubtful.

But unlike you, I witnessed (and as late as this last Sunday, still witness) the gifts of the Holy Spirit in full force. Complete healings, prophecies (that actually come to pass) etc.

Are there other "Pentecostal" churches that are "doing it wrong?" I have no doubt.

But that hardly warrants a blanket condemnation. Especially when results say otherwise.

 

[charlesj]

My Grandmother was raised from the dead by the prayers of the righteous and healing power of Jesus Christ. I feel but I do not know that you went to a church regardless if it was pentecostal or not that was stuck in emotion. I have seen healing, deliverance, and the manifestation of God with in my church. I am sorry but I know that the spirit of Jesus visits and takes up residency in my life and in our church when we gather to corporatly
and in unity of the love of Jesus Christ to worship God. We are not far from the word of God or deceived we are in the word of god. and that leads our lives!

Shalom, and thank you for your input

Thank you Angelina and Ms Hepburn for your sincere an kind words. I can tell the fruits of the Spirit reside in you!

Hello UHCAian:


Today, with modern medicine a dying person can be kept alive for days (even months).

Was your grandmother declared dead? How long was she dead? Two or three days? How about like Lazarus who was dead for three days and Jesus raised him?


If this really happened and you grandmother was dead for three days every newspaper in the world would be printing it. Do you have a copy of the news article because
I missed it?


Most of the “miracles” I’m told about are those that you can’t see. Huh? That is, they
say, “I had a stomach problem and God healed me.” “I had one leg shorter than
the other and God stretched my leg out and now they are both the same length.” Etc. etc. etc.


My brother (in the flesh) is Pentecostal and has been now for about 40 years. His son had
bone cancer at the age of 21. He had all kinds of faith healers lay hands on him and declared him healed. The church prayed over him etc. He died at the
age of 22. My brother, five years ago, has been diagnosed with the same kind of cancer and the cancer has left holes
in his bones throughout his body and skull. The medical people have given him a drug that has healed his bones back to normal, but the cancer came back. This is the lethal cancer.


I am not attacking you, but I am saying all this “hype” is just what it is “hype.”




“I say if you are into being a member of any church - go where the love is.” (Miss Hepburn)


Really Miss Hepburn?


A “church” is an assembly of people by definition. (Read my article on “Is
church a religious name?” http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13552-is-church-a-religious-name/


When you get an assembly of people it doesn’t always mean you are hearing the Word of God. Would it be okay to attend Mormon
worship? I have Mormon friends and they express “love.” Would that be okay since they express
love? I just studied with a fifth generation Mormon. Is it okay to teach that you can
become God if you are righteous enough? Also, do you believe that God was a man at one time? They teach this. Is that okay as long as they do it with “love”?
These people (Mormons) are hard working, decent and loving people!


This fifth generation Mormon told me his great grandfather had five wives. He asked me “do you think he is in hell because he had five wives?” I told him, “no, if he had five wives he has
already LIVED HELL on earth.”


The Masonic lodge is religious. I spent five years as a Mason. I can remember one of the “secret” questions
they ask when you are initiated, “whom do you place your trust?” I replied, “Jesus Christ!” The man asking me the questions whispered, “No,
you can’t say that, there may be some Jews present.” Now, by what you’ve said, these people show “love”
is it okay to fellowship with this assembly (church) who can’t mention Jesus Christ in their meeting openly.

May the Lord be with us as we study His Word,

Your servant in Messiah,

charlesj

 

[charlesj]

-- Ah yes, the dreaded "blanket condemnation."
Apparently you do not realize that the "Pentecostal" paint brush does not fairly paint all churches that practice what you have condemned.

That is like condemning all Lutheran churches just because the ECLA has decided to ordain gay ministers as long as they are in monogamous relationships.

I grew up in the Catholic church and had horrendous experiences. At first I thought it was just my home church but when I went to multiple other churches in other cities and encountered the same type of non-scriptural systems, I realized it was the policy and practice of ALL Catholics from the Pope on down.

After I left the Catholic church I joined a 'Pentecostal" church, fully expecting to be just as disillusioned and doubtful.

But unlike you, I witnessed (and as late as this last Sunday, still witness) the gifts of the Holy Spirit in full force. Complete healings, prophecies (that actually come to pass) etc.

Are there other "Pentecostal" churches that are "doing it wrong?" I have no doubt.

But that hardly warrants a blanket condemnation. Especially when results say otherwise.

Hello Foreigner:

Hmmmmm… so, with a ‘paint brush’ you’ve condemned all Catholics? Isn’t that just
what you said about me using a “paint brush?” LOL


I replied to UHCAIan with his question(s). Words are hard sometimes in writing as they carry no feeling(s). I am writing what I find to be factual in my
lifetime with the Pentecostals just as you did with the Catholics. In my younger years I must have attended every tent meeting and Pentecostal church in
San Antonio, Texas. John Hagee use to be one of my teachers and I use to have great respect for the man. John
is a typical Pentecostal. I lost all respect for him around 1970 when he was fooling around with his piano player, divorced his then wife and married the
piano player.


If you (or others)want to worship at a Pentecostal assembly, then I have no objections. This is between you and God. This doesn’t
change my mind on what I feel or know about Pentecostalism.


Can we be friends? OF COURSE!



May the Lord bless us with His Word,


Your servant in Messiah,


charlesj

 

[rockytopva]

I belong to the United Holy Church of America(UHCA) we are the oldest African-American holiness church organization in the United States. We beleive in the same things as other Christian churches. We are biblicaly founded and our doctrine aligns with the word of God. We speak in tongues under the inspiration and aunction of the Holy Spirit, baptize in the name of Jesus, preach salvation in Jesus Christ, teach, express the gifts of the Holy Spirit and express our praise and glory to God in dance (as we call it a shout). We stress holiness in the lives of the people of God. Why is there so much back lash against we who belong to Holiness, Apostolic and Penetecostal denominations? We are not chrismatics that is another denomination! Some of their beliefs are different than our own. Why is there such stigma and in al naturality intolerance and not the love of Christ toward us?

Dear Sir:

Welcome and greetings in Jesus name! I was banned on three boards for my pentecostal / word of faith views. My reasoning in this is that the devil tries his best to keep folks from the anointing. I was brought up Baptist in which I was sure that speaking of tongues was of the devil. And then I experienced the Holy Spirit in its power in a Pentecostal church and all of that changed. William Seymour was African American and I did a video on his doctrine on the Baptism in the Holy Ghost. The image of the temple came right out of devotions! Blessings!

Seymour's devotions

I believe that there are seven churches that came about in seven church ages.

Seven Churches


In which the sardisean folks really have good time in bashing we Pentecostals! But I don't care if they believe in it or not! If he said it he'll do it! And if he spoke it he will bring it to pass! And all my days I will attest that...

Every promise in the Book in mine!
Every chapter every verse, every line!
All the blessings of His love divine!
Every promise in the Book in mine!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdCZGicUWv0

 

[IanLC]

Hello Foreigner:

Hmmmmm… so, with a ‘paint brush’ you’ve condemned all Catholics? Isn’t that just
what you said about me using a “paint brush?” LOL


I replied to UHCAIan with his question(s). Words are hard sometimes in writing as they carry no feeling(s). I am writing what I find to be factual in my
lifetime with the Pentecostals just as you did with the Catholics. In my younger years I must have attended every tent meeting and Pentecostal church in
San Antonio, Texas. John Hagee use to be one of my teachers and I use to have great respect for the man. John
is a typical Pentecostal. I lost all respect for him around 1970 when he was fooling around with his piano player, divorced his then wife and married the
piano player.


If you (or others)want to worship at a Pentecostal assembly, then I have no objections. This is between you and God. This doesn’t
change my mind on what I feel or know about Pentecostalism.


Can we be friends? OF COURSE!



May the Lord bless us with His Word,


Your servant in Messiah,


charlesj

John Hagee a typical pentecostal? What? You are comparing one or two people and your personal feelings, hurts and pains to a wide variety of people! Just because the pentecostal church you went to did not satisfy you does not mean it is not from God. God revealed to me that one of the reasons for the many different kind of denominations is that no one can say that they never had a church that they felt his Spirit at! I and many other christians have experienced the power of God at Holiness, Pentecostal, Apostolic and other denominational churches. Maybe that church was not right for you?

Shalom and God bless you fellow laborer in Christ!

 

[charlesj]

John Hagee a typical pentecostal? What? You are comparing one or two people and your personal feelings, hurts and pains to a wide variety of people! Just because the pentecostal church you went to did not satisfy you does not mean it is not from God. God revealed to me that one of the reasons for the many different kind of denominations is that no one can say that they never had a church that they felt his Spirit at! I and many other christians have experienced the power of God at Holiness, Pentecostal, Apostolic and other denominational churches. Maybe that church was not right for you?

Shalom and God bless you fellow laborer in Christ!

which one? I attended many here in San Antonio over the years. I only attended Hagee's assembly a short time.
They all showed a lot of emotion, some even rolled on the floor, jumped up and down etc. The majority taught "if you don't speak in tongues, then you are not saved."

One Christmas I was in my office (I worked for IBM) and a little ol' lady came in selling candy. I always bring up Jesus and so I did with her. She asked me "are you 'fully' saved?"

At that time I knew where she was going, but I asked her, "what do you mean?" She said, "do you speak in tongues?" I told her I speak English, Spanish and can read and write the Greek.

charlesj

 

[IanLC]

which one? I attended many here in San Antonio over the years. I only attended Hagee's assembly a short time.
They all showed a lot of emotion, some even rolled on the floor, jumped up and down etc. The majority taught "if you don't speak in tongues, then you are not saved."

One Christmas I was in my office (I worked for IBM) and a little ol' lady came in selling candy. I always bring up Jesus and so I did with her. She asked me "are you 'fully' saved?"

At that time I knew where she was going, but I asked her, "what do you mean?" She said, "do you speak in tongues?" I told her I speak English, Spanish and can read and write the Greek.

charlesj

Stereotypical again not all Holiness, Pentecostal, or Apostolic churches say you have to speak in tongues. My church says that it is one of the evidences of the Holy Spirit! Not that if you do not speak in tongues then you are not saved! There are a couple of people that do not speak in tongues and are filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[charlesj]

Stereotypical again not all Holiness, Pentecostal, or Apostolic churches say you have to speak in tongues. My church says that it is one of the evidences of the Holy Spirit! Not that if you do not speak in tongues then you are not saved! There are a couple of people that do not speak in tongues and are filled with the Holy Spirit.

UHDAIan:

Apparently, you didn't read what I said. I said, "She asked me are you 'fully' saved?" At that time I knew where she was going, but I asked her, "what do you mean?" She said, "do you speak in tongues?"

I told her I speak English, Spanish and can read and write the Greek.

How can you say I was "sterotypical" when I made reference to a Pentecostal lady? I never said "all Pentecostals are this way."

charlesj

 

[Foreigner]

Hello Foreigner:

Hmmmmm… so, with a ‘paint brush’ you’ve condemned all Catholics? Isn’t that just
what you said about me using a “paint brush?” LOL


I replied to UHCAIan with his question(s). Words are hard sometimes in writing as they carry no feeling(s). I am writing what I find to be factual in my
lifetime with the Pentecostals just as you did with the Catholics. In my younger years I must have attended every tent meeting and Pentecostal church in
San Antonio, Texas. John Hagee use to be one of my teachers and I use to have great respect for the man. John
is a typical Pentecostal. I lost all respect for him around 1970 when he was fooling around with his piano player, divorced his then wife and married the
piano player.


If you (or others)want to worship at a Pentecostal assembly, then I have no objections. This is between you and God. This doesn’t
change my mind on what I feel or know about Pentecostalism.


Can we be friends? OF COURSE!



May the Lord bless us with His Word,


Your servant in Messiah,


charlesj

-- Knew you were going to miss that. The policies and stated belief of ALL Catholic churches run contrary to scripture. Not exactly splitting hairs.
Hope this helped.


Also, as far as John Hagee, I don't know him. Never been to his church. But you have null and voided his right to be a spiritual leader because of a past indiscretion.

David had the husband of the woman he was fornicating with murdered. Does that null and void all he did, as well?

Does that mean he shouldn't be seen as the great leader that he was?





.

 

[charlesj]

-- Knew you were going to miss that. The policies and stated belief of ALL Catholic churches run contrary to scripture. Not exactly splitting hairs.
Hope this helped.


Also, as far as John Hagee, I don't know him. Never been to his church. But you have null and voided his right to be a spiritual leader because of a past indiscretion.

David had the husband of the woman he was fornicating with murdered. Does that null and void all he did, as well?

Does that mean he shouldn't be seen as the great leader that he was?





.

Hagee is still preching with over 5000 in his church... and national TV shows. Hagee is doing well without me, he is a RICH man and lives in the same gated complex of San Antonio as the San Antonio Spurs and other high dollar people.

I just told you I don't respect him. I don't think he cares what I think.

charlesj

 

[rockytopva]

Hagee is still preching with over 5000 in his church... and national TV shows. Hagee is doing well without me, he is a RICH man and lives in the same gated complex of San Antonio as the San Antonio Spurs and other high dollar people.

I just told you I don't respect him. I don't think he cares what I think.

charlesj

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. - 1 John 4:1


I don't care for John Hagee either. Most TV preachers are in it for the career move, to try to make a name for themselves, and for the money. I heard Perry Stone the other day preaching the prosperity message when I know deep down he was doing it as David Cerullo was in the audience... Oh how I grieve over the Laodicean preacher!

Davud Cerullo's new home

 

[Foreigner]

Hagee is still preching with over 5000 in his church... and national TV shows. Hagee is doing well without me, he is a RICH man and lives in the same gated complex of San Antonio as the San Antonio Spurs and other high dollar people.

I just told you I don't respect him. I don't think he cares what I think.

charlesj

-- But you said you don't respect him because he committed the same sin that David did (although he didn't compound it with murder as David did).

If he has sought God's forgiveness and been washed clean....what is your basis for feeling justified in not respecting him?

 

[charlesj]

-- But you said you don't respect him because he committed the same sin that David did (although he didn't compound it with murder as David did).

If he has sought God's forgiveness and been washed clean....what is your basis for feeling justified in not respecting him?

Hello Foreigner:

Not respecting someone is not a sin. There are people now and in my lifetime I haven't any respect for.

I did make a mistake in saying how large his church is. I said 5000, but the latest is 13,000.

Here is a link that you can read on Mr. Hagee. (He says he is Dr. Hagee, but he only has a master's, never got a Phd from any college)


http://apprising.org/2007/11/18/the-other-gospel-of-john-hagee-christian-zionism-and-ethnic-salvation/

charlesj

 

[Amazing Grace]

AC 4:31 After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

AC 4:32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. 34 There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.

AC 4:36 Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means Son of Encouragement), 37 sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles' feet.

Not so today. You will never see a Church like this again. It was in those early days and praise God for that.

Are there any Good Churches today. I leave that to individuals to discern as we are all given the Holy Spirit to know where God is in the midst of a congregation or not. It is more than just good teaching we need to look for as you can see from the verses above.

I have found the best I can in my area. That is all I can say.

I am not into judging other people's churches. You have to do that for yourselves. The Bible gives you more than enough help to know how to gauge wether a Church is worth attending or not. No use us debating it because we in the end are not the Ultimate Judge nor can we make decisions for other Christians. All we can do is point to the scriptures on this matter.

 

[Foreigner]

Hello Foreigner:

Not respecting someone is not a sin. There are people now and in my lifetime I haven't any respect for.

I did make a mistake in saying how large his church is. I said 5000, but the latest is 13,000.

Here is a link that you can read on Mr. Hagee. (He says he is Dr. Hagee, but he only has a master's, never got a Phd from any college)


http://apprising.org/2007/11/18/the-other-gospel-of-john-hagee-christian-zionism-and-ethnic-salvation/

charlesj

-- I am not a fan of John Hagee, either. Don't send him money. Don't agree with all he has said.
But I do know, though, that people are being saved through his ministry so he must be doing something positive.


I saw different sources that state he got a Th D. from Trinity University, but his own web site does not mention a Doctorate (although they do call him 'Dr.')
They list a number of honorary doctorates so perhaps he is taking the not-so-accurate route of calling himself 'Dr.' due to that.


As far as his past mistakes, the biggest sins I have ever committed have been AFTER I became a Christian. It took a long time to come to grips with that, seek forgiveness, and actually repent in every sense of that word. Thankfully, that is now in the past.


Because I have gone through having to seek sincere forgiveness from major sin well AFTER becoming a Christian, I am more understanding of how people can fall into sin while a Christian.

Perhaps I understand a little better then than those who have not gone through this, what a wonderful thing total and complete forgiveness and restoration is.

David had the husband of the woman he was fornicating with killed in battle. It took Nathan slapping him in the face (metaphorically speaking) before he realized how much he had offended God. Yet he sought and was granted total forgiveness.


Peter, just hours after stating he could never deny Christ and promising to die for Him, denied Him three times. Yet he received total and complete forgiveness from Jesus and went on to be one of the great cornerstones of the early church. You and I study his words and deeds to this day.


If God is willing to totally forgive and restore someone, I know I am not in a position to 'not respect' them because of that sin.






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