THE DAY OF THE LORD AND THE CHURCH

[GISMYS_7]

""Caught up"" IS the rapture!!
The rapture (catching up) is very real-but you can pray that you be left behind if you want to.
Luke 21:36
“Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”
1 Thessalonians 5:9
“For God hath ""not appointed us to wrath,"" but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,”
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. (9) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, ""we shall be saved from wrath through him"". (10) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.” (Romans 5:8-10)
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be ""caught up"" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.




Christian Forums @ Christianity Board
Romans 5:8-10 - English: American Standard Version

 

[Iconoclast]

Once again;
The Day of the Lord The “the day of the Lord” appears frequently in Scripture, particularly in the Old Testament prophets;
(Isa 13:6, 9;

6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

Eze 13:5;5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord.

Joel 1:15; 2:1, 11;

Am 5:18, 20;

Ob 15; 15 For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

Zep 1:7;
14 The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

Mal 4:5).5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

It also appears in the New Testament (Ac 2:20; 1Co 5:5; 1Th 5:2; 2Th 2:2; 2Pe 3:10; Rev 6:17; 16:14).

The concept can appear even apart from the full phrase, “day of the Lord.”
Scripture calls it ;

a “day of punishment” (Isa 10:3),

a “day of doom” (Jer 51:2),

a “day of trouble” (Eze 7:7),

a “day of darkness” (Joel 2:2),

a “day of the Lord’s anger” (Zep 2:2).

Or prophets may simply call it “that day” (Isa2:11, 17; 7:18; 11:10; Jer 4:9; 30:7; Eze 24:26; 29:21; Hos 1:5; 2:16, 18; Joel 3:18; Am 2:16; 8:3; Mic 2:4).

The “day of the Lord” may be “sometimes used by the prophets to refer to any specific period of time in which the God of Israel intervenes in human affairs to save and judge” and “invariably the Day of the Lord is associated with acts of violent judgment” (DBI 196, 197). This concept always appears in the singular form, as an individual day.

Nevertheless, “the ‘day of the Lord’ is not a one-time occurrence” for “there have been days of the Lord in the past” (EDBT 147).

We see them coming against Babylon (Isa 13:6, 9),

Egypt (Eze 30:3–4),

Jerusalem (Joel 1:14–15),

Edom (Oba 8, 15), and others.

He Shall Have Dominion , Gentry pg 381,382

The symbolism of disruptions of Sun, moon, and stars, accompany these judgments

notice , Jesus gave the indication of the day of the Lord happening to Jerusalem with Mal4:5 , at the time of John the baptist
Mal 4:5).5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

 

[farouk]

There will be no one "left behind" because the "so called rapture" is a figment of the imagination of a man named J.N. Darby of England or Scotland in the early 1880's and the "great tribulation" is also of his imagination. One has to do a "cut-and-paste" on 1 Thess. 4:13-17 in order to make that theology fit their pre-conceived theology. The fact that he had an "idea" and then took the "idea" to find support is a technique that dispensationalists and pre-mils have to use to verify the mis-use of "caught up" TOGETHER with the resurrected dead and the ones that were alive at his one and only coming at the end of this one long age.

Any fifth grader when handed that paragraph and asked to read it will always come to the conclusion that there is no "rapture "intended by the term "caught up". One has to be taught that theology. I know because I had never heard the theology after having read the Bible long before I heard John MacArthur and others on the radio. I would sit there with Bible in hand and say..."wwwwhaaat?""

By the way...you never answered my question appropriately.

Hi, @Moriah's Song There is always the distinction between Jews, Gentiles and the church (1 Corinthians 10.32). As well as being about what will happen, it also involves who.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Hi, @Moriah's Song There is always the distinction between Jews, Gentiles and the church (1 Corinthians 10.32). As well as being about what will happen, it also involves who.

In what way do you mean "There is always the distinction between Jews, Gentiles and the church?" Is it that you believe that the present "church" is composed of both Jews and Gentiles and that it will continue in that manner until the last day when Christ returns and both the saved and unsaved will be raised on that same Day?

 

[marks]

1 Thessalonians 5:2 KJV - For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Paul is speaking about the day of the Lord, a day of wrath: Zephaniah 1:15 KJV - That day [is] a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

1 Thessalonians 5:3 KJV - For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Paul is writing to the church of the Thessalonians: 1 Thessalonians 1:1 KJV - Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians [which is] in God the Father and [in] the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Those who Paul is speaking of as being "they and them" in 1 Thessalonians 5:3 are not the church.

1 Thessalonians 5:4 KJV - But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Here in 1 Thessalonians 5:4 and 5:9, the church is being spoken of.

Paul said in verse 2 that the day of the Lord would come as in the night, but the church was not in the darkness of night, and therefore, would not endure that judgment: 1 Thessalonians 5:2 KJV - For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 KJV - For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

The day of the Lord is a day of wrath, the church is not appointed to wrath; the church will not face the day of the Lord.

The tribulation period is also a period of wrath: Luke 21:23 KJV - But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

The church will be caught up before the day of the Lord and the tribulation: 1 Thessalonians 4:17 KJV - Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

That's a good point, follow the pronouns. God tells us who He is talking about.

Much love!

 

[marks]

information is an aid to seeing; it is not the seeing itself just as training in an art is not the art itself. One can gather all the information, even make a profession of spruiking it but remain blind.

It is the day of Jacob's trouble, but he will be saved out of it.

What is your thought?

Much love!

 

[Davy]

Once again;
The Day of the Lord The “the day of the Lord” appears frequently in Scripture, particularly in the Old Testament prophets;
(Isa 13:6, 9;

6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

Eze 13:5;5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord.

Joel 1:15; 2:1, 11;

Am 5:18, 20;

Ob 15; 15 For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

Zep 1:7;
14 The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

Mal 4:5).5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

It also appears in the New Testament (Ac 2:20; 1Co 5:5; 1Th 5:2; 2Th 2:2; 2Pe 3:10; Rev 6:17; 16:14).

The concept can appear even apart from the full phrase, “day of the Lord.”
Scripture calls it ;

a “day of punishment” (Isa 10:3),

a “day of doom” (Jer 51:2),

a “day of trouble” (Eze 7:7),

a “day of darkness” (Joel 2:2),

a “day of the Lord’s anger” (Zep 2:2).

Or prophets may simply call it “that day” (Isa2:11, 17; 7:18; 11:10; Jer 4:9; 30:7; Eze 24:26; 29:21; Hos 1:5; 2:16, 18; Joel 3:18; Am 2:16; 8:3; Mic 2:4).

The “day of the Lord” may be “sometimes used by the prophets to refer to any specific period of time in which the God of Israel intervenes in human affairs to save and judge” and “invariably the Day of the Lord is associated with acts of violent judgment” (DBI 196, 197). This concept always appears in the singular form, as an individual day.

Nevertheless, “the ‘day of the Lord’ is not a one-time occurrence” for “there have been days of the Lord in the past” (EDBT 147).

We see them coming against Babylon (Isa 13:6, 9),

Egypt (Eze 30:3–4),

Jerusalem (Joel 1:14–15),

Edom (Oba 8, 15), and others.

He Shall Have Dominion , Gentry pg 381,382

The symbolism of disruptions of Sun, moon, and stars, accompany these judgments

notice , Jesus gave the indication of the day of the Lord happening to Jerusalem with Mal4:5 , at the time of John the baptist
Mal 4:5).5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

EVERY case of that "day of the Lord" warning in the Old Testament prophets is always... about the LAST DAY of this present world.

Folks like you just are not given to understand how God uses the old destructions in OT history as 'types' for the very end "sudden destruction" that Apostle Paul forewarned of on the last day of this present world, which Apostle Peter also warned of in 2 Peter 3:10.

 

[Davy]

""Caught up"" IS the rapture!!
The rapture (catching up) is very real-but you can pray that you be left behind if you want to.
Luke 21:36
“Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”
1 Thessalonians 5:9
“For God hath ""not appointed us to wrath,"" but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,”
....

There's that example of how Pre-trib Rapture theory folks chop up their Bible to suit them.

The "wrath" Apostle Paul was pointing to in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 that those in Christ are not appointed to, is about GOD's WRATH on the LAST DAY of this world. And it will end the great tribulation. THAT... is when Jesus comes to gather His Church, and not before.

 

[Davy]

In what way do you mean "There is always the distinction between Jews, Gentiles and the church?" Is it that you believe that the present "church" is composed of both Jews and Gentiles and that it will continue in that manner until the last day when Christ returns and both the saved and unsaved will be raised on that same Day?

Sounds like confusion.

Christ's Church is made up of both believing Israelites, and believing Gentiles, both together as one body. Any ideas of separation among His Church is a teaching of the devil.

Per John 5:28-29, both the resurrection of life, and the resurrection of damnation, happen on the same day of Christ's return.

Those who err not knowing the Scriptures treat the unsaved at the end of Revelation 20 as being the resurrection of damnation. They also err with thinking that future time of Christ's "thousand years" reign still involves being in a flesh type body. Not so. On the final day of this world when Jesus returns, God's consuming fire is going to burn man's works off this earth, and it will be a complete destruction like the time of Noah, except by fire this next time instead of waters of a flood. Those of the resurrection will be in spirit bodies, and the rest of us still alive on earth will be changed to the spirit body. Christ's future reign is not one in the flesh.

 

[quietthinker]

It is the day of Jacob's trouble, but he will be saved out of it.

What is your thought?

Much love!

Wrestling with truth and the confrontation of one’s own weakness is the lot of all who want to go forward and won’t go back.

 

[Iconoclast]

EVERY case of that "day of the Lord" warning in the Old Testament prophets is always... about the LAST DAY of this present world.

Folks like you just are not given to understand how God uses the old destructions in OT history as 'types' for the very end "sudden destruction" that Apostle Paul forewarned of on the last day of this present world, which Apostle Peter also warned of in 2 Peter 3:10.

Not true. They were literal ot.judgments as posted.
Nevertheless, “the ‘day of the Lord’ is not a one-time occurrence” for “there have been days of the Lord in the past” (EDBT 147).

We see them coming against Babylon (Isa 13:6, 9),

Egypt (Eze 30:3–4),

Jerusalem (Joel 1:14–15),

Edom (Oba 8, 15), and others.

 

[amigo de christo]

The LORD will rip that sky one day as HE comes for the lambs .
There will be no second ark . There was not in noahs day , there was not a second chance in lotts .
IF one is not in CHRIST on that day , the wailing will be heard . CLING TO CHRIST NOW and NEVER LOOK BACK .

 

[Iconoclast]

It is the day of Jacob's trouble, but he will be saved out of it.

What is your thought?

Much love!

Where in the NT. is Jer.30:7 said to be the time of Jacobs trouble?
Jerusalem and the temple being destroyed looks like trouble to me.

 

[Davy]

Not true. They were literal ot.judgments as posted.
Nevertheless, “the ‘day of the Lord’ is not a one-time occurrence” for “there have been days of the Lord in the past” (EDBT 147).

We see them coming against Babylon (Isa 13:6, 9),

Egypt (Eze 30:3–4),

Jerusalem (Joel 1:14–15),

Edom (Oba 8, 15), and others.

Oh yeah, it is true those OT ensamples all... point to the main event of the "day of the Lord" to occur on the last day of this present world. The "sudden destruction" idea which Apostle Paul spoke of in 1 Thessalonians 5, that is to occur on the "day of the Lord" that comes "as a thief in the night", was from the OT prophet Isaiah, because God's consuming fire on that final day is take them by surprise. That sudden destruction is to come 'at an instant, suddenly'.

Isa 29:5-7
5 Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly.

6 Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.

7 And the multitude of all the nations that fight against Ariel, even all that fight against her and her munition, and that distress her, shall be as a dream of a night vision.
KJV

It's obvious that never happened before in past history to Ariel (put for Jerusalem there). That is a LAST DAY event linked to this...

1 Thess 5:2-3
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
KJV

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
KJV

So why not get into study of your Bible for yourself, asking God's help in understanding, instead of listening and pushing silly doctrines of men? You'll never understand these events as long as you look up to those men who think they are somewhat, when really God did not call them.

 

[Iconoclast]

Oh yeah, it is true those OT ensamples all... point to the main event of the "day of the Lord" to occur on the last day of this present world. The "sudden destruction" idea which Apostle Paul spoke of in 1 Thessalonians 5, that is to occur on the "day of the Lord" that comes "as a thief in the night", was from the OT prophet Isaiah, because God's consuming fire on that final day is take them by surprise. That sudden destruction is to come 'at an instant, suddenly'.

Isa 29:5-7
5 Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly.

6 Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.

7 And the multitude of all the nations that fight against Ariel, even all that fight against her and her munition, and that distress her, shall be as a dream of a night vision.
KJV

It's obvious that never happened before in past history to Ariel (put for Jerusalem there). That is a LAST DAY event linked to this...

1 Thess 5:2-3
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
KJV

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
KJV

So why not get into study of your Bible for yourself, asking God's help in understanding, instead of listening and pushing silly doctrines of men? You'll never understand these events as long as you look up to those men who think they are somewhat, when really God did not call them.

You make several mistakes here. You assume i have not studied the bible.
You assume these godly trained men have not studied the bible.
You suggest God did not call them,lol....you offer 3 verses and seek to dismiss men, who not only have studied the bible, not only in english,but the original languages, and the backgrounds and contexts that you are clueless about.
You have never read solid study books, but just presume you of course know more than trained persons.

 

[quietthinker]

Consequence and arbitrary Judgement are miles apart!

 

[Davy]

You make several mistakes here. You assume i have not studied the bible.
You assume these godly trained men have not studied the bible.

By that admitting, you show your condition of understanding is even in worse shape, because you should have heeded what God's Word teaches about the crept in unawares per Old Testament history, but you didn't.

Zech 14:16-21
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

That verse reveals beyond all... doubt, that it is speaking of the future time after Christ's return when He will reign over all nations with a rod of iron. This is all Millennial reign timing, which is still yet to come today. Those left of the nations are those that came up against Jerusalem on the last day of this 'present' world, and destroyed by Christ's future return of Revelation 16 (7th Vial) and Revelation 19.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowl's before the altar.

21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
KJV

That part in red above reveals that the Canaanites have crept into the House of God during this present world, and only when Jesus returns will they be finally cast out of the House of God, which today is represented by Christ's Church.

 

[Stumpmaster]

The church will be caught up before the day of the Lord and the tribulation:

Those who refuse to replace their worship of God for obesience and tribute to the combined strength of human existence do suffer tribulation but are safe from the outpouring of God's Wrath.

(Rev 15:1) Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete.
(Rev 15:2) And I saw something like a sea of glass mingled with fire, and those who have the victory over the beast, over his image and over his mark and over the number of his name, standing on the sea of glass, having harps of God.
(Rev 15:3) They sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying: "Great and marvelous are Your works, Lord God Almighty! Just and true are Your ways, O King of the saints!
(Rev 15:4) Who shall not fear You, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy. For all nations shall come and worship before You, For Your judgments have been manifested."

 

[Davy]

For those brethren interested in the simplicity of God's Word, one should read and heed what God taught in Ezekiel 13 AGAINST man's leaven ideas of a false Pre-trib Rapture theory.

It doesn't take any special scholarly training to understand what God said there in simplicity, just as it is with most of His Holy Writ. It's only men that can't... read and heed His Word in simplicity that aren't given to understand it. Instead those men seek to follow precedence from other men, and go into philosophical cycles away ... from the simplicity of God's written Word. What value is a Bible scholar that can give you 20 alternate interpretations of a Scripture, but not the sole right one according to The Holy Spirit? God's Holy Writ was given through holy men as guided by The Holy Spirit, and by The Holy Spirit that is how God's Word must be understood.

God is against those who hunt the souls of His people to make them fly.

Ezek 13:19-20
19 And will ye pollute Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to My people that hear your lies?

20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
KJV

 

[marks]

Where in the NT. is Jer.30:7 said to be the time of Jacobs trouble?

It's interesting to me the way you ask your questions.

Where ever did Jesus say it wasn't?

Much love!