THE DAY OF THE LORD AND THE CHURCH

[Moriah's Song]

Jesus silences this entire charade over and over in the book of John when He states repeatedly that He will not return to take His people with Him until the Last Day, Last Day, …. Laaaaast Day of the world.

John 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24; 12:48

AMEN TO THAT!!

To those who have walked blindly into the "rapture" theory my heart truly goes out to them. Sadly I went into a local Christian bookstore and tried to find a book called "The Knowledge of the Holy" by A.W. Tozer and as I browsed through the isles with book after book after book of well-known pre-trib and dispensational authors only on the shelves, I just shook my head and kept saying, "indoctrination, indoctrination, indoctrination..." People go into these bookstores thinking they are going to get truth when the only truth is in the scriptures themselves as you have shown in John.

 

[michaelvpardo]

1 Thessalonians 5:2 KJV - For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Paul is speaking about the day of the Lord, a day of wrath: Zephaniah 1:15 KJV - That day [is] a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

1 Thessalonians 5:3 KJV - For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Paul is writing to the church of the Thessalonians: 1 Thessalonians 1:1 KJV - Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians [which is] in God the Father and [in] the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Those who Paul is speaking of as being "they and them" in 1 Thessalonians 5:3 are not the church.

1 Thessalonians 5:4 KJV - But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Here in 1 Thessalonians 5:4 and 5:9, the church is being spoken of.

Paul said in verse 2 that the day of the Lord would come as in the night, but the church was not in the darkness of night, and therefore, would not endure that judgment: 1 Thessalonians 5:2 KJV - For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 KJV - For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

The day of the Lord is a day of wrath, the church is not appointed to wrath; the church will not face the day of the Lord.

The tribulation period is also a period of wrath: Luke 21:23 KJV - But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

The church will be caught up before the day of the Lord and the tribulation: 1 Thessalonians 4:17 KJV - Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Good attempt at supporting a contrived doctrine, but plucking verses out of context and reinterpreting them to mean something other than what they mean in context is called eisogesis (as opposed to exegesis) and is how cults are built. A guy named Chuck Smith built a huge Cultic following based on this imaginative interpretation of scripture, but he wasn't the first.
The book of the Revelation has letters to 7 churches, not 1 church and 6 wannabe churches, yet only promises 1 out of 7 will be spared "the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. "
Tim Lahaye's books are entertaining, but they're fiction, not scripture.
Tribulation is not wrath, but testing. Great tribulation is great testing. The Earth is in tribulation now. Worldwide fires, flooding, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, droughts, famines, all these things are tribulations. What's the magic line between the accelerating rate of tribulations and "the great tribulation?" When does the expression of God's wrath in nature become "too great" for God to save His people?
With a little wrath I hid My face from you for a moment;
But with everlasting kindness I will have mercy on you,”
Says the Lord, your Redeemer. Isaiah 54:8
Was this inspired by the same God that you believe?
Sounds a little like the wrath of God shed upon the redeemed "for a moment." God doesn't change my friend, and a god that does change isn't worth your trust.

 

[Truman]

I suspect that thought the Great Tribulation is going to be unpleasant, perhaps the worst thing about it will be fear.
I think that if we can get past the fear, pulling together, assisting each other, and comforting each other will help greatly.
We have time to prepare for this...today.

 

[farouk]

AMEN TO THAT!!

To those who have walked blindly into the "rapture" theory my heart truly goes out to them. Sadly I went into a local Christian bookstore and tried to find a book called "The Knowledge of the Holy" by A.W. Tozer and as I browsed through the isles with book after book after book of well-known pre-trib and dispensational authors only on the shelves, I just shook my head and kept saying, "indoctrination, indoctrination, indoctrination..." People go into these bookstores thinking they are going to get truth when the only truth is in the scriptures themselves as you have shown in John.

Interesting that 1 Corinthians 10.32 refers to Jews, Gentiles and the church of God. The question of who will be taken is significant and adds light to the question of where and when...

 

[amigo de christo]

I suspect that thought the Great Tribulation is going to be unpleasant, perhaps the worst thing about it will be fear.
I think that if we can get past the fear, pulling together, assisting each other, and comforting each other will help greatly.
We have time to prepare for this...today.

This may seem hard to believe for some , hard to fathom for others , BUT I ALREADY HAVE MY PEACE .
The only preparation i make , IS TO CLING TO JESUS . Truman i am of this mind . Pull up a chair
and make sure you are sitting down before i say this .
I say that , in case one might pass out or faint .
THERE IS NO FEAR OF MAN , OF DEATH . No matter what comes against me , WAS ALLOWED BY GOD .
And so long as i have CHRIST , THEN I GOT ALL I NEED . FOR WHETHER I LIVE < SUFFER OR DIE
I WIN , CAUSE JESUS ALREADY WON .
There is no hope for me in this world . I long for the glorious LORD and HIS COMING .
But the closer His coming gets , the MORE I GET UNCTIONED to get up and do something . cause time is running out .
POINT THEM TO JESUS . In the end lambs win . EVEN IF WE SUFFER we can and will rejoice .
TOO MANY folks got hopes in this world . THEY DONT EVEN REALIZE a simple truth anymore .
BLESSED are ye when you are persecuted . GOD is counting one worthy to suffer shame for HIS NAME .
NO WONDER THE APOSTELS danced and sang in prison . TOO many have HOPE in this life and in this world .
OUR HOPE ought to be IN JESUS ALONE and our hands should be raised daily with MASSIVE PRAISES and THANKSGIVING
unto GOD , that HE EVEN SENT us grace IN The first place . My advice is , IF FOLKS WANT TO BE or GET PREPARED .
OPEN BIBLES and START FEEDING ON THAT TRUTH which indeed makes one wise unto salvation through FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS .

 

[farouk]

I don't think in any case that the church - as properly defined - will go through the Great Tribulation (Matthew 24; Luke 21), even though the tribulation principle is in the world, which the Lord Jesus has overcome (John 16.33).

 

[theefaith]

don’t forget Matt 24

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

After after after shall gather the elect

 

[GEN2REV]

I don't think in any case that the church - as properly defined - will go through the Great Tribulation (Matthew 24; Luke 21), even though the tribulation principle is in the world, which the Lord Jesus has overcome (John 16.33).

Well, that is a very dangerous position to take.

Dangerous for you and for all you may encourage to agree with you.

God bless your discernment and spiritual reasoning.

 

[MatthewG]

It’s interesting that today when making a video on who is the Word of life, the Word of God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

I found a snippet of something I never found again until coming across it.

Now the book or letter of Hebrews was written to Jewish Christian believers who in their lives had Judaism and Paganism to choose from as well. And the book itself was to encourage believers to look to Jesus Christ who is superior to all things relating to prophets, Moses, preisthoods.

I found in Hebrews 1:2 it says God has spoke to them in those last days, through the Son of God.


“God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:1-2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

It seems though the debate of the authorship and dating of it is not know. However just from the text in verse two alone it seems as though the last days are coming up then at that time.

I believe all of the Bible involving the New Testament collectively was written prior to the destruction of Jerusalem when God poured his wrath on the nation materially divorcing the old covenant, establishing the new which is found in the book of Hebrews.

@farouk any insights? Or anyone else? Have you ever seen or consider this?

 

[farouk]

It’s interesting that today when making a video on who is the Word of life, the Word of God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

I found a snippet of something I never found again until coming across it.

Now the book or letter of Hebrews was written to Jewish Christian believers who in their lives had Judaism and Paganism to choose from as well. And the book itself was to encourage believers to look to Jesus Christ who is superior to all things relating to prophets, Moses, preisthoods.

I found in Hebrews 1:2 it says God has spoke to them in those last days, through the Son of God.


“God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:1-2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

It seems though the debate of the authorship and dating of it is not know. However just from the text in verse two alone it seems as though the last days are coming up then at that time.

I believe all of the Bible involving the New Testament collectively was written prior to the destruction of Jerusalem when God poured his wrath on the nation materially divorcing the old covenant, establishing the new which is found in the book of Hebrews.

@farouk any insights? Or anyone else? Have you ever seen or consider this?

@MatthewG I think among really significant aspects of Hebrews are that all that the Lord Jesus is His Person, titles and work are better than all that ever went before in the Old Testament, or indeed ever could be. This is why when the outward trappings of the old system finally collapsed in AD70 it was almost an afterthought, in the sense that what is in Him was already finally and definitely established.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Interesting that 1 Corinthians 10.32 refers to Jews, Gentiles and the church of God.

The letter to the Corinthians was written around 55 A.D. - only 25 years after Christ' resurrection and ascension. At that time all the world fell under one of these denominations, they were either Jews, or Gentiles, (that is, heathens), or the church of God (that is, Christians). Taking place during those years is regarded as the "transition" period. It wasn't until after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. that both Jews and "Gentiles" began to refer to the "blended" Jews and Gentiles" as "Christians."

Eph 2:12-21..."remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility to an end. And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near; for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord;"​

In the case of eating things offered to idols, care was to be taken that neither Jews nor Gentiles were offended, being both members of the church.

 

[theefaith]

Well, that is a very dangerous position to take.

Dangerous for you and for all you may encourage to agree with you.

God bless your discernment and spiritual reasoning.

why did the church go through the first 300 years of persecution and martyrs and many since then?

 

[Moriah's Song]

why did the church go through the first 300 years of persecution and martyrs and many since then?

Why Were Christians Persecuted you ask?

John 15:20- - From the words of Jesus Himself: "Remember the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will persecute you;...

Acts 5:41- Then [the apostles] left the presence of the counsel [of Gamaliel], rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer dishonor for the name."
Romans 8:17- "...and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him."
Romans 8:35-..."Who shall separate us from the love of Christ: Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?"
1 Peter 4:16- expressed it well “If you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.”
Philippians 3:10-..."...that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death..."
1 Peter 4:13 &16-..."But rejoice in so far as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed...yet if one suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but under that name let him glorify God.​

Many people think that persecution began with the Romans but the New Testament writings reveal conflict between Jews and Christians after they separated from their first-century synagogues. Early Christians expected suffering. Christ had died on the cross, so there was no higher honor than to imitate that death through accepting martyrdom (witness by one’s blood). According to the verses above, Jesus spoke of what Christians would have to endure through persecution of which many, like Steven and most all of the apostles would inevitably have held the martyr’s death in high esteem.

But what finally mattered is what they did have. They had a faith. They had a fellowship. They had a new way of life. They had a confidence that their Lord was alive in heaven and guiding their daily lives. These were the important things. And it made all the difference in laying a Christian foundation for all of Western civilization.

We live in a country where we have a constitution that protects our right to believe in Christ as our Savior so we have difficulties trying to comprehend what the early church considered it to be a privilege to be persecuted as their Savior was persecuted.

I think the question for each of us today is: "Would I be willing to sacrifice my life to the lions in the Roman Coliseum as a martyr for Christ rather than deny Him and serve the Roman deities instead?"

Were we not being persecuted in a subtle way when the WHO said lock the door to the churches due to the virus?

 

[GEN2REV]

why did the church go through the first 300 years of persecution and martyrs and many since then?

Explain what your question has to do with Pre-Tribulation Rapture and I might have a response for you.

 

[theefaith]

Explain what your question has to do with Pre-Tribulation Rapture and I might have a response for you.

the church always endures suffering and persecution

 

[GEN2REV]

the church always endures suffering and persecution

(e)xactly