Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!

[Addy]

To the newbie... You are NOT better than the drunk down the street... Just saying....
Do NOT compare yourself to others... this is the recipe for PRIDE... and it is not pleasing to the Lord.
God does not see us as better than others and we should not do that either.

All children of God ( Christians )... are works in progress... This is NOT a competition... although it seems that some Christians like to think it is.

NOT engaging in a sinful behaviour does not make us BETTER. It simply means that sin is not something we are struggling with.... NOT better.... just not a problem for that individual. Guaranteed there will be something else they are struggling with.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If these types were in my neighborhood, I would give them the chance to hear the Gospel....it would be up to God to “ open their heart” to the receiving of it..... just as He did to “ Lydia, the Seller of Purple” and everybody else that ever got Saved— including YOU, if indeed, you are Saved.....

Many a prisoner in our Penitentiaries have “ seen the light” and got rescued and saved .....Murders, Rapists, molesters , etc.....perhaps even a DRUNK! Thank God that Jesus didn’t SNEER at Lost Sinners .....as some “ Superior” ones in here do....

There will be no "Murders, Rapists, molesters , etc." in the kingdom of God. That was @Grailhunter 's point. But the new OSAS has even the unbelieving who live in sin going into the kingdom of God at the end of the age as long as they say they believe, or used to believe somewhere in the past.

Salvation and the kingdom of God is for those who believe and are transformed and who struggle against sin (because they are saved), not for those who don't believe and openly embrace sin willingly (because they are not saved). Unbelievers who have nothing more than lip service to the gospel of grace, and no change of nature, will not be going into the kingdom of God as the new OSAS claims.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Thank God that Jesus didn’t SNEER at Lost Sinners .....as some “ Superior” ones in here do.

But it's okay for those saved by grace to sneer at and feel superior to lost legalists. Oh, the hypocrisy! Lol.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I think you’ve made some “ slip-ups” lately that show the man that you truly are.....just a Modern Day Pharisee”..... The Truth always has a way of coming out.

You're right. I need to start focusing my judging and condemnation and feelings of superiority toward legalists instead of just common everyday sinners, lol.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

We SHOULD do this and we SHOULDN'T do that! Just not for SALVATION !

So we SHOULD preach "do do this and don't do that"? ↓↓↓

they were not harsh , judgmental Legalists preaching “ do do this and don’t do that” .....they were like the God and the Jesus That they preached about .....full of kindness, full of compassion, eager to forgive sinners

 

[BarneyFife]

I am a natural- Born Smart A** , and this stuff comes to me so easily, it is easy for me to give into temptation....

I sympathize with this situation. Really, I do. But when you combine it with this statement:

If you really Believed the Gospel and Rested In it as commanded to , these problems would melt away....

It doesn't seem to add up. I understand that it is an existing paradox that has to be reconciled, but can you see how inconsistent the message looks? You may correctly say that these statements are being taken out of context, but are they really? I'm familiar with "Let go, and let God" theology, and it usually entails surrendering everything to God and spiritual problems melt away, in general. So, if you really believe the Gospel and rest in it, the problem of giving in to temptation easily should be melting away before your eyes. Doesn't that seem to indicate an imbalance in your assessment of the situation? Can you see how it would appear that it should be either or and not both? Do I believe your standing with God is questionable? Not for a minute. But your theology is out of balance. There's more to your story than you're telling us, and that's fine. Am I being unreasonable? Attacking your character?

I sin every day. I'm not proud of it, but I do. Anyone who claims otherwise is probably not counting sins of omission, and I'm quite certain they count in Heaven. But sin doesn't just happen in a vacuum. People commit sin. And the wages of sin are death. I don't worry about "lucky repentance," because I don't picture God as an exacting taskmaster who sits on His throne just itching to catch me in a sin and then hoping I'll forget to ask forgiveness for it. I say the Lord's prayer every morning after my devotions and at night before I go to sleep. I like to think that "Forgive us our debts" covers all the sins that I can't bring to mind, but even if I forget to say it or fall asleep too quickly, I don't believe that I'm going to hell for the lapse of repentance and confession. My trajectory is in the other direction and I believe God is longsuffering, not willing that any should perish.

But when Christ died on the cross He took away the sin of the world according to John the Baptist. To me, that means that every single sin committed was laid on Him.

The Southern Baptists (and especially Charles Stanley) like to talk about two kinds of grace: Common grace; and saving grace. Common grace is extended to everyone who ever had so much as an evil thought. It doesn't save them but it allows them to keep on living until they can be born again or finally reject God completely. Because the wages of sin is death. Saving grace is what brings us to repentance so we can be born again. Paul said, "I die daily." Christ said "Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." We must be born again daily. If we miss a day of being born again, God doesn't say "Aha!" and just cast us off. I do believe there is sufficient evidence in the Bible that we can fall out of favor with God by committing the unpardonable sin, even after we have been born again. I'm sorry we don't all agree on that. I really wish we did. But even there, I still don't think we're as far apart as we suspect.

Btw, Bible teachers' efforts to "explain" "scary" passages usually amounts to rationalization on the side of liberal theology, in my experience. My theology is neither conservative or liberal, but moderate (I hope). I'm glad you've found some teachers that you can relate to. So have I. But we can't expect others to prefer the same teachers we do, can we? We generally gravitate toward teachers who say things we like to hear. Surely you can admit that if I can. My father-in-law and I have basically the same faith. But he prefers one teacher by far over all the rest. And as much as I believe that fellow has done for the Kingdom of God and the Gospel, he literally puts me to sleep. For the record, one of my very favorites is a fellow named Ty Gibson. If I mentioned others you might put me on -ignore-. lol

I'm rambling now.

 

[BarneyFife]

Here is Christianity in a nutshell, “Christianity 101” —— you are dirty.....only Jesus can clean you up and make you fit for Heaven.... He does that “for” you if you Believe that He died for you Sins and rose from the Grave....Believe that “ Gospel” and God will put His Spirit in you and Transform you into the Image Of His Son....making you a New Creation with a New Heart That has new desires......Chief among them is wanting to live a life that pleases God..... People will just about always do what they want—— God Changes “your “ Wants so that they line up with His...it can take a while.....Your task is to continue in the way that you started—- Faith in the Promises Of God.....You do the Faith Part ( Keep Trusting In Jesus)

and God will do HIS Part.....He will “ Save you to the Uttermost”.......

Any Questions?

This is absolutely great stuff! Why can't you stick to it and not go off on tangents? The only thing I would say in mild criticism is that faith is not our "part," per se, because God even provides that for us. All we have to do is choose to follow Him.

When we speak of faith, there is a distinction that should be borne in mind. There is a kind of belief that is wholly distinct from faith. The existence and power of God, the truth of His word, are facts that even Satan and his hosts cannot at heart deny. The Bible says that “the devils also believe, and tremble;” but this is not faith. James 2:19. Where there is not only a belief in God's word, but a submission of the will to Him; where the heart is yielded to Him, the affections fixed upon Him, there is faith—faith that works by love and purifies the soul. Through this faith the heart is renewed in the image of God. And the heart that in its unrenewed state is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be, now delights in its holy precepts, exclaiming with the psalmist, “O how love I Thy law! it is my meditation all the day.” Psalm 119:97. And the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us, “who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” Romans 8:1.

There are those who have known the pardoning love of Christ and who really desire to be children of God, yet they realize that their character is imperfect, their life faulty, and they are ready to doubt whether their hearts have been renewed by the Holy Spirit. Such should not draw back in despair. We shall often have to bow down and weep at the feet of Jesus because of our shortcomings and mistakes, but we are not to be discouraged. Even if we are overcome by the enemy, we are not cast off, not forsaken and rejected of God. No; Christ is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Said the beloved John, “These things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” 1 John 2:1. And do not forget the words of Christ, “The Father Himself loveth you.” John 16:27. He desires to restore you to Himself, to see His own purity and holiness reflected in you. And if you will but yield yourself to Him, He that hath begun a good work in you will carry it forward to the day of Jesus Christ. Pray more fervently; believe more fully. As we come to distrust our own power, let us trust the power of our Redeemer, and we shall praise Him who is the health of our countenance.

The closer you come to Jesus, the more faulty you will appear in your own eyes; for your vision will be clearer, and your imperfections will be seen in broad and distinct contrast to His perfect nature. This is evidence that Satan's delusions have lost their power; that the vivifying influence of the Spirit of God is arousing you.

No deep-seated love for Jesus can dwell in the heart that does not realize its own sinfulness. The soul that is transformed by the grace of Christ will admire His divine character; but if we do not see our own moral deformity, it is unmistakable evidence that we have not had a view of the beauty and excellence of Christ.

 

[BarneyFife]

Jesus taught us that willful, unrepentant unbelief is the unforgivable sin.

I missed that. I thought He taught that the unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which I interpret as a final refusal to allow the Holy Ghost to convict of sin. Perhaps we're saying the same thing, but I'm not so sure...

You could try the new OSAS. In it you're saved because you say you are. As long as you think you are saved all is good. Even if your life is screaming out loud that you haven't an ounce of God's grace of salvation in you. Thinking you're saved, despite all the outward evidence that you are not, is the believing that saves in that theology. As long as you have that 'believing', you are saved. Try it. You might like it.

I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this comment. It seems like you are mocking something or someone, which doesn't seem very charitable to me. Why would I try it? It sounds just like the old version to me. Did I not make it plain that eternal security doesn't work for me?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I don't worry about "lucky repentance," because I don't picture God as an exacting taskmaster who sits on His throne just itching to catch me in a sin and then hoping I'll forget to ask forgiveness for it.

I don't worry about it either, because I'm a believer.
Insofar as salvation itself is concerned the blood of Christ that I believe and trust in instantly forgives my sin when I commit it because Christ's Sacrifice and Ministry is forever on the altar for me in heaven interceding on my behalf:

"...Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. Therefore He is able to save completely those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede for them." Hebrews 7:24-25​

Since I first believed, and in my continued believing, His intercession for me has never stopped. That's why we are told to continue to believe and trust in so great a High Priest as Jesus, because you can't have the continuous benefit of the High Priest and His Sacrifice if you do not believe in and rely on Him and His Sacrifice. It's only for believers who are trusting and believing in it and relying on it.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I missed that. I thought He taught that the unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which I interpret as a final refusal to allow the Holy Ghost to convict of sin. Perhaps we're saying the same thing, but I'm not so sure...

We are saying the same thing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this comment. It seems like you are mocking something or someone, which doesn't seem very charitable to me. Why would I try it? It sounds just like the old version to me. Did I not make it plain that eternal security doesn't work for me?

I was most definitely mocking the new Progressive Hyper Grace theology, lol.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

We must be born again daily.

As long as the Holy Spirit is in us we are in a state of being born again, anew, and from above. What must be renewed every day is the filling of the Holy Spirit. IOW, the manifest experience and felt presence of the Holy Spirit must be sought after and renewed daily.

 

[Addy]

WE have made a new religion folks... Progressive Hyper Grace... as in on-going I presume... GOOD GRIEF.

These accusations remind me of the parable of the workers.

With the day at an end... the owner sends his steward out to pay the laborers. Those hired at the end of the day are paid first. Those who were hired at the start of the day were last in line. Every laborer, no matter how long they worked, received the same amount—one day's wage, a denarius.

How it must offend these Christians who have done good and been good all their lives...to see someone on their death bed who hasn't been so good... receive the gift of Salvation.

No fair.... I worked so hard to be good and do good and that idiot gets off scott free... for doing nothing.

This is the real issue here with the topic of OSAS.... It is a gospel of VIOLENT... OUTRAGEOUS GRACE.... the price that Christ paid for this GRACE is more than the human mind can begin to even comprehend. How sad that many presume to with-hold it from those who need it most.

How wonderful that GOD is in the business of saving and redeeming lives... unlike so many of His children who are filled with pride and jealousy over how God lavishes HIS mercy and kindness on the human race.

 

[Enoch111]

I missed that. I thought He taught that the unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which I interpret as a final refusal to allow the Holy Ghost to convict of sin.

Actually, according to the context of that passage, the unpardonable sin is to attribute the works of the Holy Spirit to Satan (as Christ's enemies were doing wilfully). Which also includes what you have stated.

 

[BarneyFife]

As long as the Holy Spirit is in us we are in a state of being born again, anew, and from above. What must be renewed every day is the filling of the Holy Spirit. IOW, the manifest experience and felt presence of the Holy Spirit must be sought after and renewed daily.

We are saying the same thing. lol

 

[Curtis]

You can’t have grace until you have faith.

Faith is how you access grace.

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

The claim of grace plus nothing is unbiblical.

Salvation is via faith, repentance of sins, and publicly confessing with our mouth the faith in our hearts, and by calling on the name of the lord.

The same guy who wrote Ephesians 2:8-9 about being saved by grace THROUGH faith apart from keeping the works of the law of Moses, also wrote how to be saved in Romans 10:8-13.

And Acts 3:19 states repentance is part of our conversion.

 

[BarneyFife]

@Addy

I find the thief on the cross story to be one of the most inspiring in all of the Bible:

To Jesus in His agony on the cross there came one gleam of comfort. It was the prayer of the penitent thief. Both the men who were crucified with Jesus had at first railed upon Him; and one under his suffering only became more desperate and defiant. But not so with his companion. This man was not a hardened criminal; he had been led astray by evil associations, but he was less guilty than many of those who stood beside the cross reviling the Saviour. He had seen and heard Jesus, and had been convicted by His teaching, but he had been turned away from Him by the priests and rulers. Seeking to stifle conviction, he had plunged deeper and deeper into sin, until he was arrested, tried as a criminal, and condemned to die on the cross. In the judgment hall and on the way to Calvary he had been in company with Jesus. He had heard Pilate declare, “I find no fault in Him.” John 19:4. He had marked His godlike bearing, and His pitying forgiveness of His tormentors. On the cross he sees the many great religionists shoot out the tongue with scorn, and ridicule the Lord Jesus. He sees the wagging heads. He hears the upbraiding speeches taken up by his companion in guilt: “If Thou be Christ, save Thyself and us.” Among the passers-by he hears many defending Jesus. He hears them repeat His words, and tell of His works. The conviction comes back to him that this is the Christ. Turning to his fellow criminal he says, “Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?” The dying thieves have no longer anything to fear from man. But upon one of them presses the conviction that there is a God to fear, a future to cause him to tremble. And now, all sin-polluted as it is, his life history is about to close. “And we indeed justly,” he moans; “for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this Man hath done nothing amiss.”


There is no question now. There are no doubts, no reproaches. When condemned for his crime, the thief had become hopeless and despairing; but strange, tender thoughts now spring up. He calls to mind all he has heard of Jesus, how He has healed the sick and pardoned sin. He has heard the words of those who believed in Jesus and followed Him weeping. He has seen and read the title above the Saviour's head. He has heard the passers-by repeat it, some with grieved, quivering lips, others with jesting and mockery. The Holy Spirit illuminates his mind, and little by little the chain of evidence is joined together. In Jesus, bruised, mocked, and hanging upon the cross, he sees the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world. Hope is mingled with anguish in his voice as the helpless, dying soul casts himself upon a dying Saviour. “Lord, remember me,” he cries, “when Thou comest into Thy kingdom.”


Quickly the answer came. Soft and melodious the tone, full of love, compassion, and power the words: Verily I say unto thee today, Thou shalt be with Me in paradise.


For long hours of agony, reviling and mockery have fallen upon the ears of Jesus. As He hangs upon the cross, there floats up to Him still the sound of jeers and curses. With longing heart He has listened for some expression of faith from His disciples. He has heard only the mournful words, “We trusted that it had been He which should have redeemed Israel.” How grateful then to the Saviour was the utterance of faith and love from the dying thief! While the leading Jews deny Him, and even the disciples doubt His divinity, the poor thief, upon the brink of eternity, calls Jesus Lord. Many were ready to call Him Lord when He wrought miracles, and after He had risen from the grave; but none acknowledged Him as He hung dying upon the cross save the penitent thief who was saved at the eleventh hour.


The bystanders caught the words as the thief called Jesus Lord. The tone of the repentant man arrested their attention. Those who at the foot of the cross had been quarreling over Christ's garments, and casting lots upon His vesture, stopped to listen. Their angry tones were hushed. With bated breath they looked upon Christ, and waited for the response from those dying lips.

 

[Addy]

I find the thief on the cross story to be one of the most inspiring in all of the Bible:

Tears falling... those big ones... LOL.... HOW beautifully written this is... What a precious inclusion of Christ's experience on the cross....
THIS is MY JESUS.... This is the ONE whom I LOVE.... WHY do people try to take this JOY from me??? Why do the legalists make religion about themselves instead of HIM????? This is what grieves me so deeply....
Thank you for posting this @BarnyFife ... I can barely see the keyboard through my tears... I am humbled... and in AWE... and will close my day with thoughts of this story. Much LOVE... Addy

 

[Taken]

@Grailhunter 's point. But the new OSAS has even the unbelieving who live in sin going into the kingdom of God at the end of the age as long as they say they believe, or used to believe somewhere in the past. [/QUOTE]

The "supposed NEW OSAS", was an OP started by one who DOES NOT BELIEVE in OSAS....

It's like saying LET ME DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS FOR YOU....THEN DISAGREE WITH THEM...

A load of nonsense.

 

[amigo de christo]

You could try the new OSAS. In it you're saved because you say you are. As long as you think you are saved all is good. Even if your life is screaming out loud that you haven't an ounce of God's grace of salvation in you. Thinking you're saved, despite all the outward evidence that you are not, is the believing that saves in that theology. As long as you have that 'believing', you are saved. Try it. You might like it.

Never , even in sarchasm , point to that pile of dung again . NO , He had better NOT try it . Let none that name the name of JESUS
partake in that dung pile of utter puke and vomit . I know the speech i use to describe that mess might offend some .
BUT ITS TOTAL DUNG and i had rather be dead than to believe it or follow it .
ONLY JESUS saves , the problem is , most folks are following another jesus , another light , another love , another unity
another freedom . And all of that is of darkness . Folks are gonna do as folks are gonna do . But lambs are gonna CLING TO JESUS
and BIBLES . This world can keep the rest . I want no part of it .