Eternal Security Promised

[MatthewG]

Christians should be encouraged that God loves them, and that He cares for them, and that God accepts them as they are now today. Christians should be encouraged that they are made right with God by faith in Christ, because of Jesus had done for them. Christians should know that it is up to them to continue in their relationship or not, and they know who they are.

 

[MatthewG]

If “Eternal Security” and “Once Saved Always Saved” were true none of the many warnings and instructions (explicit and in parable form) for avoiding sin would be in the Holy Bible.

Isolated Bible reading easily exposes all falsehoods and cleaver speeches by smooth talking, well dressed, men.

Don’t let any man take the Bible away from you with private interpretations and “Greek” speak.

Hello Michiah-Imla,

This is encouraging because the same thoughts occur to me is that a person who desires to know about God, and Jesus Christ and what the bible does say should seek out what the bible itself says. Though would suggest that even getting down into the definition of words can not hurt a person however can reveal to them more how a word can be defined especially when it comes down to Greek, and Hebrew. You are right about the encouragement that seen in the bible where it is known that Jesus Christ sets us free from from death and sin.

Today made a video on Freedom and Bondage talking about these things, that Jesus has set us free from,

Thank you for your encouragement in the aspect of going to read the word of God for ones self to get an understanding, question and challenge anything anyone may say to them and seek the answers found in the bible,

With love in Christ,
Matthew G.

 

[MatthewG]

Consider, regarding salvation unto eternal life, what we read in scriptures.

Jesus said “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. ”

Jesus said “He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.”

Jesus said “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. ”

Jesus said “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. ”

What can you say about that?

Also @Michiah-Imla

Tong
R4250

It is encouraging but not enough to live off of, there is more to the bible than just these 4 things that Jesus had said. They are true, however, that does not mean people can not walk away from Jesus... or renounce their own faith in Christ leading in to being what is called an Apostate.

An Apostate is someone who no longer stands with.

apostasia: defection, revolt
Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Definition: defection, revolt
Usage: defection, apostasy, revolt.
HELPS Word-studies
646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."

 

[MatthewG]

Christ will not let a believer hunger or thirst.

That is right Ferris, Jesus is our everlasting bread, and everlasting water to help us by and through the spirit of Christ with-in us to continue to look towards the goodness of God, and give praise.

with love in Christ, to you all,
Matthew G.

 

[CadyandZoe]

A little common sense is all that is needed to debunk any use of Jhn 10:27-30 as Christ guaranteeing eternal life. Notice Christ says no man can pluck a Christian out of His or the Father's hand. What it doesn't say is that a Christian can't choose to leave Their hands. God and Christ 's protection are like an impenetrable fortress: it can only protect a Christian from Satan if they stay inside it. If they choose to leave it, the Christian leaves the protection that the fortress provides. The fact that Rev. 2-3 shows Christ telling apostates to return to being faithful and encouraging the faithful to stay the course says the eternal security doctrine is baloney.

I don't disagree with your statements here except for your view that Jesus' statement in John 10 doesn't support eternal security.

In John 10, Jesus is making promises to those whom he calls "my sheep." And he declares that no one can snatch them out of his hand "because the father has given them to me." To understand the full impact of Jesus' promise, we must consider that John 10:25-30 contains two promises rather than one.

The promise Jesus made to his sheep:
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

The promise the Father made to Jesus:
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

While it always remains true that some Christians, some believers will fall away from the faith, not all of them do. And while we are accepting the fact that the promise of salvation is not without conditions, we must also come to terms with the fact that a fraction of believers DON'T fall away. And from John 10, we get a picture that is repeated throughout the Bible. Namely, that election is without contingency. In this context, Jesus declares that the Father has promised to give Jesus some sheep, indicating that the status of the sheep can not change.

Jesus tells a parable about a farmer who broadcasts seed in his field. The seed falls on soils that are more or less suitable for crop production. Jesus lists three types of soil wherein the seed is able to germinate and produce plant growth. But only one type of soil is suitable for crop production. This illustrates the fact that it is the farmer, not the seed, that determines crop production, because it is the farmer who tills the soil, removing both rocks and weeds. Likewise, it is the Father who prepares the hearts of the sheep and it is the Father who guarantees that the seed will mature to produce a crop.

Thus, when Jesus tells the Pharisees that it is the Father who gives the sheep to Jesus, he strongly implies that He, himself is not ultimately responsible for who is a sheep and who is not a sheep, and neither is the sheep itself responsible for being a sheep.

The argument for or against eternal security boils down to the difference between "can" and "will". In other words, just because a man "can" do something doesn't mean he "will" do it. Just because a person "can" fall away, doesn't mean he "will" fall away.

Even as we acknowledge that the promise of salvation is not without conditions, we must also acknowledge that the promise of salvation is without contingency when God is choosing whom to save. While a promise of salvation always remains possible and not certain to occur from our perspective; the salvation of the sheep is unquestionably established by the one who speaks things into existence. At his command, all those whom the Father has given to Jesus will be saved.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Do you believe that Jesus will by no means cast them out?

Christ will not cast out a believer.

I’ll take that as a yes answer to the question.

Tong
R4264

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Jesus said “He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.”

Do you believe that those who come and believe Jesus, them whom the Father gives Him, will never hunger and thirst?

Christ will not let a believer hunger or thirst.

I’ll take that as a yes answer to the question.

Tong
R4265

 

[Taken]

Jesus brought a new teaching.

No he did not. It’s folks like yourself who bring new teachings.

Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

The rest of your post is complete jibberish. Learn to write clearly and concisely.

Matt 15:
[16] And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

Old Testament...Old Teaching.
Gods POWER WITH a believer.

New (BETTER) Testament...New Teaching.
Gods POWER WITH AND IN a Converted believer.

If that ^ be jibberish and foolish unto you....
so be it.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Do you believe that no one can come to Jesus unless he is drawn by the Father?

Yes.
The ability to trust in God is offered to a person. They do not have that ability on their own. And God offers it to a person at the time of His choosing.

Thank for your direct and clear answer this time. So it is a yes to the question.

Regardless of the person’s ability, the truth remains, that NO ONE can come to Jesus UNLESS he is DRAWN by the Father.

An implication is that those not drawn by the Father to the Son can not come to Jesus. And that as many, even if all men, as seems to go to Jesus, only those given to the Son by the Father and drawn by Him, will and can come to Jesus, in faith, to believe and trust in Jesus.

Tong
R4266

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Do you believe that Jesus will raise him who comes to Him, at the last day?

I believe that Jesus will raise up every one who believes at the last day.

I’ll take that as a yes answer to the question.

Tong
R4267

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Do you believe that he who believes in Jesus has everlasting life?

I believe that everyone who believes has the life that never ends in them.

I’ll take that as a yes answer to the question, regardless if everlasting life for you, with reference to Jesus’ statement “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.”, only means a life that never ends.

Tong
R4268

 

[Ferris Bueller]

An implication is that those not drawn by the Father to the Son can not come to Jesus.

They can not come to Jesus, successfully. That is the implication. For there are lots of people who come to Jesus who are fake and are not saved at all in their coming to Jesus. The church is full of them.

 

[Tong2020]

…….Christians should know that it is up to them to continue in their relationship or not, and they know who they are.

Yes they should know who they are, if they are children of God or not. If they are legitimate children or not.

I have the mind that their relationship as children of God, legitimate that is, is not something that is up to them to choose to continue or not.

Tong
R4269

 

[Nancy]

Christians should be encouraged that God loves them, and that He cares for them, and that God accepts them as they are now today. Christians should be encouraged that they are made right with God by faith in Christ, because of Jesus had done for them. Christians should know that it is up to them to continue in their relationship or not, and they know who they are.

Hello Matthew,
Fellowship with other Christians is vital for uplifting one another, strengthening and encouraging each other. We become burning embers that flew out of the fire and eventually will fade from the things of God. It is not easy to find now a days, at least not for myself. This is my church, right here and God has blessed me so much with wonderful God fearing and loving people who DO lift me up every day. Thank you for sharing this very important aspect. It was once said "No Christian is an Island". We NEED one another.
God bless you abundantly bro!

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Consider, regarding salvation unto eternal life, what we read in scriptures.

Jesus said “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. ”

Jesus said “He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.”

Jesus said “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. ”

Jesus said “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. ”

What can you say about that?

It is encouraging but not enough to live off of, there is more to the bible than just these 4 things that Jesus had said. They are true, however, that does not mean people can not walk away from Jesus... or renounce their own faith in Christ leading in to being what is called an Apostate.

An Apostate is someone who no longer stands with.

apostasia: defection, revolt
Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Definition: defection, revolt
Usage: defection, apostasy, revolt.
HELPS Word-studies
646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."

<<<They are true, however, that does not mean people can not walk away from Jesus... or renounce their own faith in Christ leading in to being what is called an Apostate.>>>

Definitely and certainly, they are true. Significantly, it is Jesus Himself who said and revealed those truths. And they are plain and clearly understood by the child of God.

If so one may ask, can just anybody come to the Son and believe/trust Jesus? According to what He said, the answer to that is No.

If so one may ask, can any of all those who were given by the Father to the Son, those who were drawn by the Father to the Son to come to Jesus in faith, to believe and trust in Him, later walk away in unbelief?

The answer to that is a No. One that one needs to look at and consider is how a one was drawn by God to come to Jesus, to believe and trust in Him. God had done something in him, something that is beyond his power to do nor undo.

Another thing that one needs to consider is that, if it were possible, that such a one later walk away in unbelief, it would mean that Jesus fails in each instance, to accomplish the will of the Father that He was to do, that of all that the Father has given Him, He should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

Tong
R4270

 

[Taken]

I believe that Jesus will raise up every one who believes at the last day.

I believe those "IN" Christ are raised UP Before "the last day".
These ^ are men "WITH and IN" Christ.
These ^ are men Christ is "WITH and IN".
These ^ are men KEPT IN BELIEF, BY GODS POWER "IN" them.
These men Occupy Christ's "LIMITED" Earthy Kingdom...
The LIMITED KINGDOM OF CHRIST?
~ Limited BY 1,000 Years
~ Limited BY the LAND AREA Promised to Abraham and his descendants.
"OUTSIDE" Christ's Kingdom, MORTALS continue to Occupy Land (not Promised to Abraham)

I believe those WHO believe IN God, IN Jesus shall be raised UP "in the last day".
These ^ are men "WITH" God.
These ^ are men God is "WITH".
These ^ men "ENDURED" (continued TO BELIEVE IN God, IN Jesus, KEPT BY their OWN POWER) to "THEIR end of moral life".
WHEN;
ALL living MORTALS no longer Occupy EARTH.
ALL EVIL Demonic Angels no longer Occupy Earth.
(Which occurs FOR men nearing the END of the Tribulation...Which occurs For men and Demonic angels AFTER the 1,000 years reign).

"ALL" the RISEN "IN" a glorified Body...
Risen:
Before Tribulation... "IN Christ"
Risen;
After Tribulation... "WITH God, WITH Jesus"
* SHALL Occupy and Have ACCESS to the UNLIMITED KINGDOM of GOD.

UNLIMITED....Kingdom of God?
* Entire renewed Earth,
* Entire renewed Heavens.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
An implication is that those not drawn by the Father to the Son can not come to Jesus.

They can not come to Jesus, successfully. That is the implication. For there are lots of people who come to Jesus who are fake and are not saved at all in their coming to Jesus. The church is full of them.

What do you mean by “They can not come to Jesus, successfully.”?

After Jesus miraculously fed the multitude of five thousand, Jesus said to those who went after Him, seeking Him the following day, that no one can ‘come to Him’ unless it has been granted to him by My Father. It could be said that they had ‘come to Him’. But obviously, that is not the sense of ‘come to Him’ that Jesus meant in what He said to them. What He meant by ‘come to Me’ is to have faith in Him, that is, believe and trust Him.

Tong
R4271

 

[Taken]

An Apostate is someone who no longer stands with.

apostasia: defection, revolt
Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Definition: defection, revolt
Usage: defection, apostasy, revolt.
HELPS Word-studies
646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."

Agree.
Only "STANDING WITH"...
With God, With Jesus, IN a world OF Constant EVIL Demonic Presence and Cunning INFLUENCE and INFLUENCE of WICKED men.... requires a person "ONLY" Standing "WITH" God, "WITH" Jesus...
TO endure...KEEP "standing"
WITH God, WITH Jesus .... BY their own Power, stamina, fortitude, strength.

LOOK, LISTEN, OBSERVE....To men (in authority, power positions), preach, dictate, shout, demand, people TURN TO THEM...
TO SAVE THEIR LIVES...

LOOK, LISTEN, OBSERVE....WHAT occurs TO men WHO "Object, Refuse", (TO TURN TO men in authority, power positions, "TO SAVE THEM")...

Beaten, Corralled, Silenced, Imprisoned, Forced, Separated, Eliminated....

NOTHING NEW...Men in Power have been DOING this FOR Centuries...
* WORLD power Controlled kingdoms, dynasties, etc.
* Men trying famously to Control the whole world...ie Hitler.
* Individual Nation Heads Colluding to Control the whole world....ie United Nations
* UN Heads...each in their own NATION; DICTATING, beating, Oppressing, Silencing, Separating, Imprisoning, Eliminating....
* AND MEN who WILL "ACQUIESCE" (their STANDING...WITH God, WITH Jesus)...to AVOID the beatings, Oppressing, Silencing, Separating, Imprisioning, Eliminating...

THE PROTESTERS?
Are the "unwilling" to acquiesce their LIBERTY, "IN" Christ....TO power hungry, national heads sending out their goons to threaten, beat, oppress, silence, separate, imprison, eliminate....

PROPHECY UNFOLDING Before our eyes...

 

[Taken]

Christians should be encouraged that God loves them, and that He cares for them, and that God accepts them as they are now today. Christians should be encouraged that they are made right with God by faith in Christ, because of Jesus had done for them. Christians should know that it is up to them to continue in their relationship or not, and they know who they are.

Yes...a man WITH God, WITH Jesus....must by his own POWER continue THAT "with" relationship.

No....a man IN Christ...IS KEPT IN that relationship BY Gods indwelt POWER.

And WHY....a man ONLY "WITH" is continually WARNED...Demonic spirits have great power and cunning trickery to SWAY a man AWAY from ONLY standing WITH God, WITH Jesus...

And the continual teaching to BECOME "MADE IN Christ"....to which, Demonic spirits, Wicked men, HAVE NO POWER to SWAY a man with cunning trickery, TO STAND AGAINST Christ.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Jesus brought a new teaching.



Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.



Matt 15:
[16] And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

Old Testament...Old Teaching.
Gods POWER WITH a believer.

New (BETTER) Testament...New Teaching.
Gods POWER WITH AND IN a Converted believer.

If that ^ be jibberish and foolish unto you....
so be it.

Better post.

New Covenant, yes. That was not the issue though.

I already posted the scripture. If you cannot understand, so be it.