The Flesh & The Spirit
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Alethos,
Below is the link to my response on Ezek.28 you asked for.
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13742-the-flesh-the-spirit/page__view__findpost__p__108323
You never replied.
I'm still waiting.
Veteran
Below is the link to my response on Ezek.28 you asked for.
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13742-the-flesh-the-spirit/page__view__findpost__p__108323
You never replied.
I'm still waiting.
Veteran
Robbie
New Member
It's hard for me to even hear what anyone's saying in this topic because my minds so distracted with all the vicious accusations... This is just a thought but do you think it's possible that someone might just be mistaken and not that they're the spawn of satan? haha
Foreigner
In Numbers 21 why were two diferent serpents used?
1. To kill
2 To save
And how does this relate to Jesus Christ
Alethos
I believe Satan represents the serpent and the enmity between man and God since man followed the advice of the serpent. I believe the serpent on the pole was a picture of Christ. I believe Christ took the place of Satan and man on the cross. Satan should be the one up there, and so should we. He has taken the punishment of all sin and disobedienceupon himself.
I believe since man first sinned, he was cast out of the garden, and was no longer to live under the provision of God of which there is eternal life. Spiritual separation (the equivalent of death) began when he disobeyed God, and the decaying process began the moment he sinned. I believe the gene pool started to be changed negatively by being outside of God's provision, and each generation afterwords got worse and worse. God has a perfect plan for each of us, but our bodies have been tainted by the effects of sin before birth, and only Christ who was born by the Spirit had the body, mind, and spirit to be considered perfect. In and through Christ all things can still work together for His glory despite the effect sin has had in each of our lives. We have eternal life to expect in both body and spirit, just as Christ was raised back to life and our new spirit in Christ is a sign of that promise. And now we will gain new perfected bodies without the effects of sin on/in them.
I believe lust of the flesh is a perversion of our desires; when we try to fulfill our godly desires outside of God. My need for intimacy can be fulfilled by God or perverted by sins like pornography to fill the need inside me. For there to be a perversion there needs to be truth which is then perverted. Our desires begin wholesome and good placed in us by God.
Man was given delegated authority by God over the world. Satan didn't have that authority until man took sinful advice from Satan and delegated the authority over to him.
I think the reason why sin/satan/the flesh can be so easily related is because those who sin are considered "children of the devil". Through disobedience to God we become children of the devil. We are born in this nature of Adam's disobedience. Adam, a son of God, gave up his inheritance as a son for worldly living and man gave up their rights as sons and daughters of God. Our race was no longer of His kind. God's kind obey him like a good son obeys his father. Through Christ's inner work and by His spirit, we are born into His family.
I don't think I have said much that contradicts your view, but in your opinion what is happening in Mark 5? What is your view on demon possession as described here?
Jesus Heals a Demon-Possessed Man
[sup]1[/sup] So they arrived at the other side of the lake, in the region of the Gerasenes.[sup][a][/sup] [sup]2[/sup] When Jesus climbed out of the boat, a man possessed by an evil[sup][b][/sup] spirit came out from a cemetery to meet him. [sup]3[/sup] This man lived among the burial caves and could no longer be restrained, even with a chain. [sup]4[/sup] Whenever he was put into chains and shackles—as he often was—he snapped the chains from his wrists and smashed the shackles. No one was strong enough to subdue him. [sup]5[/sup] Day and night he wandered among the burial caves and in the hills, howling and cutting himself with sharp stones. [sup]6[/sup] When Jesus was still some distance away, the man saw him, ran to meet him, and bowed low before him. [sup]7[/sup] With a shriek, he screamed, “Why are you interfering with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? In the name of God, I beg you, don’t torture me!” [sup]8[/sup] For Jesus had already said to the spirit, “Come out of the man, you evil spirit.”
[sup]9[/sup] Then Jesus demanded, “What is your name?”
And he replied, “My name is Legion, because there are many of us inside this man.” [sup]10[/sup] Then the evil spirits begged him again and again not to send them to some distant place.
[sup]11[/sup] There happened to be a large herd of pigs feeding on the hillside nearby. [sup]12[/sup] “Send us into those pigs,” the spirits begged. “Let us enter them.”
[sup]13[/sup] So Jesus gave them permission. The evil spirits came out of the man and entered the pigs, and the entire herd of 2,000 pigs plunged down the steep hillside into the lake and drowned in the water.
[sup]14[/sup] The herdsmen fled to the nearby town and the surrounding countryside, spreading the news as they ran. People rushed out to see what had happened. [sup]15[/sup] A crowd soon gathered around Jesus, and they saw the man who had been possessed by the legion of demons. He was sitting there fully clothed and perfectly sane, and they were all afraid. [sup]16[/sup] Then those who had seen what happened told the others about the demon-possessed man and the pigs. [sup]17[/sup] And the crowd began pleading with Jesus to go away and leave them alone.
[sup]18[/sup] As Jesus was getting into the boat, the man who had been demon possessed begged to go with him. [sup]19[/sup] But Jesus said, “No, go home to your family, and tell them everything the Lord has done for you and how merciful he has been.” [sup]20[/sup] So the man started off to visit the Ten Towns[sup][c][/sup] of that region and began to proclaim the great things Jesus had done for him; and everyone was amazed at what he told them.
I believe since man first sinned, he was cast out of the garden, and was no longer to live under the provision of God of which there is eternal life. Spiritual separation (the equivalent of death) began when he disobeyed God, and the decaying process began the moment he sinned. I believe the gene pool started to be changed negatively by being outside of God's provision, and each generation afterwords got worse and worse. God has a perfect plan for each of us, but our bodies have been tainted by the effects of sin before birth, and only Christ who was born by the Spirit had the body, mind, and spirit to be considered perfect. In and through Christ all things can still work together for His glory despite the effect sin has had in each of our lives. We have eternal life to expect in both body and spirit, just as Christ was raised back to life and our new spirit in Christ is a sign of that promise. And now we will gain new perfected bodies without the effects of sin on/in them.
I believe lust of the flesh is a perversion of our desires; when we try to fulfill our godly desires outside of God. My need for intimacy can be fulfilled by God or perverted by sins like pornography to fill the need inside me. For there to be a perversion there needs to be truth which is then perverted. Our desires begin wholesome and good placed in us by God.
Man was given delegated authority by God over the world. Satan didn't have that authority until man took sinful advice from Satan and delegated the authority over to him.
I think the reason why sin/satan/the flesh can be so easily related is because those who sin are considered "children of the devil". Through disobedience to God we become children of the devil. We are born in this nature of Adam's disobedience. Adam, a son of God, gave up his inheritance as a son for worldly living and man gave up their rights as sons and daughters of God. Our race was no longer of His kind. God's kind obey him like a good son obeys his father. Through Christ's inner work and by His spirit, we are born into His family.
I don't think I have said much that contradicts your view, but in your opinion what is happening in Mark 5? What is your view on demon possession as described here?
Jesus Heals a Demon-Possessed Man
[sup]1[/sup] So they arrived at the other side of the lake, in the region of the Gerasenes.[sup][a][/sup] [sup]2[/sup] When Jesus climbed out of the boat, a man possessed by an evil[sup][b][/sup] spirit came out from a cemetery to meet him. [sup]3[/sup] This man lived among the burial caves and could no longer be restrained, even with a chain. [sup]4[/sup] Whenever he was put into chains and shackles—as he often was—he snapped the chains from his wrists and smashed the shackles. No one was strong enough to subdue him. [sup]5[/sup] Day and night he wandered among the burial caves and in the hills, howling and cutting himself with sharp stones. [sup]6[/sup] When Jesus was still some distance away, the man saw him, ran to meet him, and bowed low before him. [sup]7[/sup] With a shriek, he screamed, “Why are you interfering with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? In the name of God, I beg you, don’t torture me!” [sup]8[/sup] For Jesus had already said to the spirit, “Come out of the man, you evil spirit.”
[sup]9[/sup] Then Jesus demanded, “What is your name?”
And he replied, “My name is Legion, because there are many of us inside this man.” [sup]10[/sup] Then the evil spirits begged him again and again not to send them to some distant place.
[sup]11[/sup] There happened to be a large herd of pigs feeding on the hillside nearby. [sup]12[/sup] “Send us into those pigs,” the spirits begged. “Let us enter them.”
[sup]13[/sup] So Jesus gave them permission. The evil spirits came out of the man and entered the pigs, and the entire herd of 2,000 pigs plunged down the steep hillside into the lake and drowned in the water.
[sup]14[/sup] The herdsmen fled to the nearby town and the surrounding countryside, spreading the news as they ran. People rushed out to see what had happened. [sup]15[/sup] A crowd soon gathered around Jesus, and they saw the man who had been possessed by the legion of demons. He was sitting there fully clothed and perfectly sane, and they were all afraid. [sup]16[/sup] Then those who had seen what happened told the others about the demon-possessed man and the pigs. [sup]17[/sup] And the crowd began pleading with Jesus to go away and leave them alone.
[sup]18[/sup] As Jesus was getting into the boat, the man who had been demon possessed begged to go with him. [sup]19[/sup] But Jesus said, “No, go home to your family, and tell them everything the Lord has done for you and how merciful he has been.” [sup]20[/sup] So the man started off to visit the Ten Towns[sup][c][/sup] of that region and began to proclaim the great things Jesus had done for him; and everyone was amazed at what he told them.
Ezekiel 28:13-15
Ezekiel 28:13-15 "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God . . . Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; . . . Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."
In Ezek 28 Can you find anywhere the terms "devil", "satan", or "fallen angel"?
You mention this chapter a lot in “your” (you must take ownship of the belief) satan posts but nowhere is he mentioned. If anything before we progress you must state your demonic being is inferred!
ESV [sup]14[/sup]You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God;
NIV [sup]14[/sup] You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you.
The anointed cherub accepting the A.V. translation is identified in the passage, but not with a rebel angel:
"Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus . . ." Ezek 28:2. In chapters 26 and 27 prophecies recorded the then impending doom of the city of Tyre.
I know you have prefaced your comments that this is not speaking of the prince of Tyrus, so I require proof, verse 2 states clearly the person in mention is the Prince of Tyre.
Lets consider the verse in context:
In chapters 26 and 27 of Ezekiel's prophecy speaks to the destruction of Tyre - and literally enough, since today the site of ancient Tyre is like "the top of a rock . . . a place to spread nets upon" and has never been rebuilt. (Ezek. 26:14). The remainder of chapter 28 is a prophecy directed against Sidon and the future restoration of Israel.
So why in this context would the prophet introduce a new "revelation" about the origin of Satan?
Veteran this requires an answer?
If Satan is a rebel angel, why is he called "a man"? (Ezek 28:2, 9 RSV)
Does Satan the devil really traffic in riches - gold and silver? (Ezek 28: 4, 5). This is what humans do?
Veteran you have mentioned many times that Satans greed was for Gods throne, but here in Ezek 28:4,5 “thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches"?
Since Jesus stated that angels do not die: "neither can they [children of the resurrection] die any more: for they are equal unto the angels' (Luke 20:36), how is Satan to die "by the hand of strangers" (Ezek 28:10)?, to be devoured by fire and brought "to ashes" (Ezek 28:18), and "to be no more forever" (Ezek 28: 19, R.S.V.)?
"There is no secret that they can hide from thee." (Ezek 28:3). Veteran this illustration is similar to "the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light." (Luke 16:8). The king of Tyre was wise in his ability to increase his riches through trade (Ezek 28:5, Zech. 9:2), but this does not mean that he was wiser than Daniel in divine matters.
"Thou has been in Eden the garden of God." (Ezek 28:13) Do you believe this refers back to the days of Adam and Eve? But they are not mentioned?
This passage is not saying the King of Tyre lived contemporary with Adam and Eve. It just requires the king to have been in Eden, the garden of God, no mention of time is provided. Eden is an area in which the garden was placed in the east. (Gen. 2:8 cp Ezek. 27:23).
I will leave it there for now, as you have much to consider and I eagerly await your response.
Alethos
ps I am still waiting for you to deal with the above observations.
Num 21:9 So Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on a pole. And if a serpent bit anyone, he would look at the bronze serpent and live.
So Satan (serpent) can actually save us?
Num 21:9 & John 3:13-15 teaching is lost until you reconcile that Jesus was referring to himself being a serpent on the pole...one which was venomless - diening without sin, but still representing the flesh (bronze)
Why is it so differcult for you all to understand Jesus had the same nature as you and I? That why he made the ref to Num 21:9...he is telling you he is the serpent lifted up the representative of flesh destroyed on the cross Heb 2:14.
Alethos
If you claim to be a Christian, I think you need to seriously rethink that kind of statement.
Our Lord Jesus didn't take Satan's place upon His cross, especially not Satan's. The cross was for Christ alone. Consider what it would mean if Christ had not been sent to die on the cross. Not Satan, nor some serpent image of brass in Moses' day, nor any other but Christ crucified could give us eternal salvation. What did that brass serpent in Numbers 21 do for the people? Did it save their souls, or just temporarily their flesh? Their flesh only, and that just temporarily, for they are already dead, and would stay dead without Christ Jesus.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Martin is correct, Veteran.
Satan always pretends to be the scapegoat - unlawfully accused and condemned in his own eyes. Jesus actually did it. He died for the redemption of humankind - taking the place of us on the Cross...He took all sin upon His innocent body for us.
It’s sad to see such confusion over a straight forward passage of scripture, as it seems you do not understand “how” Jesus represents human nature in its fullest sense on the cross.
Did you consider the “bronze” reference in the serpent on the pole? Num 21:9
Bronze is always associated with man in his weakness, frailty and sinfulness. Here are some examples for you all to consider Num 16:38, 39-40 The bronze censers of the rebels, Korah, Dathan and Abiram, were made into plates to cover the altar, "To be a memorial unto the children of Israel, that no stranger, which is not of the seed of Aaron, come near to offer incense before the LORD..." Eze.16:36,RSV - The hebrew word 'nechosheth' is translated 'filthiness', and 'shame', R.S.V.
Jesus understood exactly what he was taking to the cross and the bronze fleshy serpent on the pole symbolised his sacrifice perfectly. You see the serpent with venom could not save, if so, would point forward to Jesus as sinner, but the bronze venomless serpent was the perfect example of the Son of Man taking his nature and nailing it to a pole. In his flesh was the law of sin and death and its in his flesh the battle was fought and won Heb 2:14.
In Num 21:9 the serpents would no doubt remind the Israelites of the serpent in Eden. They knew a seed would come to bruise the head of the serpent, which would ultimately fatally bruise the serpent's head. Gen 3:15.
Maybe 2 Cor 11:3 will make more sense to you now that you understand why Paul warns of the subtlety of the serpent mind as Christ taught as Moses lifted up the bronze serpent in the Wilderness so Jesus must allow himself to be lifted up that once and for all the serpent (devil) is destroyed.
Alethos
It's a symbolic reference to Satan. No flesh prince or king of Tyrus is an "anointed cherub". A cherub is a heavenly being, not flesh born. That's something that should have been learned in 1st year Sunday School class.
God's Word uses a lot of symbolic references, some of them about GOD Himself. Evidently you deny those references too, like Deut.32:31 with GOD as the "Rock". One can find some direct references of GOD as The Rock. That's why Rev.12:9 gives "that old serpent" as a direct symbolic reference to Satan. Guess you're not that familiar with that part of God's Word as written. Wonder what else you missed, or simply chose to miss.
As for my covering the Ezek.28 chapter about Satan, I do it because of so many sweet preachers out there that refuse to. And I will continue to cover it too per God's Word.
No, that's not speaking of a flesh prince or king of Tyre, because God later reveals He was speaking of an "anointed cherub" who was once in His Garden of Eden, like that old serpent was. But Ezek.28 is speaking of that old serpent in Eden at time long prior to Adam and Eve being there. God originally created that "anointed cherub" good, but iniquity was found in him when he rebelled in coveting God's Throne. In the Isaiah 14 example, God gives another symbolic reference to him as a fake morning star (Lucifer in the KJV).
What you require at present will not satisfy you. You'll have to wait until you meet Satan personally, since you deny God's Word about him being real. I notice you spend a lot of time trying to prove Satan and hell don't exist. If you're not careful, you'll force God to show you what's real, that is, if you truly are one of His, for He disciplines those whom He loves, as written.
Simple. God was speaking about a cherub, the Devil, Satan, that old serpent. And who did the flesh kings of Tyre follow? The Devil. They worshipped idols.
In Who's image and likeness was man and the angels made? Why does the Archangel Gabriel have a name that means 'man of God', since he has never been born as a flesh man? That's your answer.
Yep. And when the final beast kingdom is setup in these last days, Satan's servants will have stolen most of the wealth of God's people, which actually belong to God. All riches belong to God. That's why Satan himself is coming to this earth to claim those riches in the last days. But when Christ returns all those riches will be taken away from him and his servants on earth!
Isa 23:17-18
17 And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the LORD will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth.
18 And her merchandise and her hire shall be holiness to the LORD: it shall not be treasured nor laid up; for her merchandise shall be for them that dwell before the LORD, to eat sufficiently, and for durable clothing.
(KJV)
When Christ returns, that wealth will be returned to God's people. Those who worship Satan and idols will have nothing.
You're not paying attention. Even the words 'neither can they die any more' requires that death had happenned before. The only immortality state belongs to GOD and His Son, those around His Throne, and... those who have believed on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ and the witness of His Apostles. All others are subject to the death of their spirit in the lake of fire, which definitely is not immortality. Per Isaiah 30, that fire of old by God's breath has been prepared for the king, that is, the king of the bottomless pit, Satan. He's going to have company too.
Who said anything about a flesh king being wiser than Daniel? But Satan is wiser than Daniel. And God's prophets were wiser than you, otherwise you would have believed their witness about the Devil being real.
The children which are Satan's servants on earth, the "synagogue of Satan", have a slight advantage over God's people for this world. But not much longer now and they will be in the pit with their god Satan, for his time left is very short and he knows it. I think I'll wait to the end of this world to see him in the pit with his buddies when Christ puts him in his prison. Not much longer now.
The time of that anointed cherub following God before iniquity was found him was long before Adam and Eve's day in Eden. No one in history has ever found Eden's location. Man still does not know. Only those of God's servants know that He has shown, and also know what kind of place it was and will be again.
I don't have to deal. God already gave me the winning hand through His Son Jesus Christ of Nazareth, along with all those who believe on Him. Only a matter of time, and I can wait.
Those are some really crazy statements.
Don't you know why God told Moses to make a brass serpent for the rebellious to be forced to look upon to live?
Num 21:7-8
7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that He take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.
8 And the LORD said unto Moses, "Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live."
(KJV)
How can a graven brass serpent image give life? It cannot, only God can. So WHY did God use it?
It's simple. God used that brass serpent image to MOCK THOSE WHO REBELLED AGAINST HIM! It was like making those rebellious who were bitten to bow down and kiss dung in order to receive God's mercy. That serpent image represented Satan ("that old serpent"), and that's who they had followed in sinning against God, so He mocked them by making them look upon it to live. Images of wood, stone, metal, etc., cannot save, and didn't then. God saved them by His mercy by HIS HAND; the brass image did nothing. And it still did not give them eternal life to the soul and spirit. Their flesh still died later.
But if you think a brass image can save, then keep on thinking that. God will let you have at it.
That brass serpent image being put on a pole represents FAKE SALVATION OF IDOL WORSHIP. IT IS FOR THE REBELLIOUS WHO PERISH WITH IT.
But the TRUE CROSS unto ETERNAL LIFE is what Christ Jesus hung upon since HE is The TRUE SAVIOUR.
I find if very interesting 'Truth' that you are obsessed with making Jesus 'the serpent', giving Jesus a sinful nature, deny that Satan exists, deny that Jesus is God, deny eternal punishment, etc. I see VERY little resemblance to Christianity.
Veteran, here are the facts.
SERPENT in the wilderness
· lifted up (like Christ)
· bronze serpent (symbol of flesh- like Christ)
· the flesh (Like Christ)
· venomless (No sin in Christ)
· outside the law (Like Christ)
· belief required (Like Christ)
CHRIST on calvary
· publicly crucified for all to “see” Gal.3:1
· the flesh - rightly related to death Heb 2:14
· sin dethroned - in a sinless bearer of human nature Eph 2:14 Heb
4:15 Rom 6:10
· outside the law Heb 13:13
· "whoso believeth might not perish" John 3:13-15
“SO MUST THE SON OF MAN BE LIFTED UP"
Veteran can you see the connection Christ made between His Fathers work in Num 21:9 and Jesus declaration in John 3:13-15
No matter how you twist the scriptures that bronze serpent provided temporary salvation which pointed forward to a great salvation, which your Lord and Master said. in Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him (the greater bronze serpent) should not perish (like those in Number 21:9), but have eternal life.
It would be disappointing if out of pride you rejected the above truth, to protect a false understanding of satan.
Alethos
And yet I believe in the things concerning the Kingdom of God and the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 19:8 Acts 8:12
For you Ducky it reveals how far christianity has come in 2000 years.
Alethos
But clearly a different Jesus. My Jesus is Almighty God.
Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.
Did you think Christianity could be improved?
I believe in the existence of such things as witchcraft, voodoo, etc. That Fortune-telling, mysticism, and the like can actually can have a perverted power behind them. Some are just crazy and are trying to make money. If there is true supernatural power they can access, what authority/whom do they access it from?
I've wondered that also.
Note what some of the people of Israel did with that brass serpent many years later...
II Ki 18:1-4
1 Now it came to pass in the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign.
2 Twenty and five years old was he when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and nine years in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Abi, the daughter of Zachariah.
3 And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did.
4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.
(KJV)
Some among Israel were still burning incense to that brass serpent image in worship to it in the days of king Hezekiah.
What's disappointing is the gross darkness of confusion you're in with such an ignorant comparison. The ONLY thing in common was the idea of being hung up on a pole or tree.
The following are YOUR WORDS, NOT MINE: you said, "that bronze serpent provided temporary salvation".
The correct answer of course is, that GOD Himself preserved them by His Own Hand, by His Own Mercy.
The brass serpent image God told Moses to carve did NOTHING, and is NOTHING. They were saved by GOD'S POWER, not of power from the brass image which is equal to dung.
IF you claim images of metal can offer ANY salvation, even temporarily, then you have gone to Baal worship.
Hi Veteran,
If you think I implied the serpent had any power you would be mistaken, similar to the tree of life which had no power in itself and could not provide eternal life. However, these symbols have their power in the principles God associates with them...to this you would agree, and we agree.
However, God through the symbol of the bronze serpent gave life, while temporary; the symbol points to Jesus Christ and is exactly why Jesus made reference to it in association to his lifting up. He was lifting up the serpent once and for all (Heb 2:14) the devil to Jesus is dead never to tempt him to sin ever again. The manner of his death was often on his mind and here and John 12:32 he understood exactly why he would be lifted up John 32:42 to once and for all destroy the glory of man, death, sin, temptation and the devil.
Some questions to consider:
1. Why did God choose a serpent to point forward to Jesus? Why not a Cherub? Or an angel?
2. Why couldn’t the serpent with venom (sin) save the Israelites?
3. Why a serpent without venom (sin) saves?
4. Why did Jesus make the personal connection with the serpent being lifted up?
5. Why was it made of bronze?
6. What is the difference between looking upon a serpent and believing “in” him?
7. In being lifted up how did Jesus in John 12:32 draw all men into himself?
I understand why many here struggle to reconcile Jesus with the serpent as it conflicts with other beliefs which are held higher than the truth hidden here in Num 21:9 & John 3:13-15.
This should stand as a warning to those reading. The Word of God is one complete message. I will explain.
In Jesus having real flesh and blood like those of Heb 2:14 it is impossible to recognised Jesus as "being" God. Because God cannot be related to sin at all!!! although he made Jesus to be sin for us. 2 Cor 5:21.
Did God make himself sin for us...ridiculous nonesense!
The Bible goes to great lengths to explain Jesus was in every way born of the woman Gal 4:29 born after the flesh. Tempted in all points as we Heb 4:15...
If we counted all the scriptures which speak of Jesus sharing our nature, one which has death reigning Rom 5:17 Rom 5:21 we could write countless volumes of books.
However, many (Ducky, Veteran and Foreigner) cannot bring themselves to acknowledge this simple Bible truth, else it would compromise their belief in the doctrine of the Trinity and all the theories they were taught as children.
No, they would prefer to remain in darkness than come into the glorious light.
Alethos
Topic Sin & Death explains how God through Jesus saved mankind
Why was Christ made in Adam's nature?
Jesus death for us involved the condemnation of that nature 1 Pet. 4:1; Rom 8:3
Do you believe Jesus suffered in the Flesh?
Jesus was put to the proof of obedience where Adam failed Rom. 5:19; Heb. 5:8; Phil.2:8
If it were not so, for what purpose was Jesus born of Mary? It would have been suffecient for such to be out of the ground, a full grown adult as Adam was. But the plan was to condemn sin in its own nature Rom 8:3
We have seen the example of the serpent in the wilderness in Num 21:9. The bitten Israelites were asked to look at the biter impaled, as the condition of being healed. Jesus said this had to be fulfilled in him John 3:14.
Therefore human nature (serpent) as the sinner was the biter (venom), and in him (Jesus), it (flesh) was lifted up and condemned on the cross.
Alethos
Jesus death for us involved the condemnation of that nature 1 Pet. 4:1; Rom 8:3
Do you believe Jesus suffered in the Flesh?
Jesus was put to the proof of obedience where Adam failed Rom. 5:19; Heb. 5:8; Phil.2:8
If it were not so, for what purpose was Jesus born of Mary? It would have been suffecient for such to be out of the ground, a full grown adult as Adam was. But the plan was to condemn sin in its own nature Rom 8:3
We have seen the example of the serpent in the wilderness in Num 21:9. The bitten Israelites were asked to look at the biter impaled, as the condition of being healed. Jesus said this had to be fulfilled in him John 3:14.
Therefore human nature (serpent) as the sinner was the biter (venom), and in him (Jesus), it (flesh) was lifted up and condemned on the cross.
Alethos
