I have a question that remains unanswered:

[Robert Gwin]

A literal, plain reading of Acts 2:33 does not dictate that it was impossible for Christ to have had the Holy Spirit before that time (or His ascension). It is not even an apparent (non-literal) contradiction.

He simply did not have that aspect of it sir. All of us have holy spirit I believe, that animates our bodies. It is called the breath of life, however no Christian today has the aspect of the holy spirit to resurrect the dead. God's holy spirit has many uses in His purpose Barn.

 

[David in NJ]

That is a very inaccurate translation you are using.....because if you look at John 1:18 in a Greek Interlinear, it literally reads...

"θεὸν God οὐδεὶς no one ἑώρακεν has seen πώποτε· at any time; μονογενὴς only-begotten θεὸς god ὁ the (one) ὢν being εἰς into τὸν the κόλπον bosom τοῦ of the πατρὸς Father ἐκεῖνος that (one) ἐξηγήσατο. explained."

The opening words of that verse prove that Jesus was not God....."No one has seen God at any time"...thousands saw Jesus.
It doesn't say "no one has seen the Father" but says that 'no one has ever seen God' and then mentions that "the only begotten god" is "in the bosom of the Father."....so your trinity is nonsense. One part of God is in a favored position with himself?
The "only begotten god" who was "in the bosom of the Father" (a position of favor) "explained him".

The Greek "theos" translated "god", applies to anyone who is considered to be of divine origin or who has divine authority.....it is not an exclusive term for the God of the Bible. Satan is also called "theos"...Jesus is called "theos" and even human judges are called "gods" by God himself. (John 10:31-36)

There is no mention of the word "son" in John 1:18 as you have qu9oted above.
If John 1:18 speaks of the "only begotten Son" (monogenes theos) then they should also translate "Son" in John 1:1.
Making John 1:1 say... "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was the Son".

You have to ignore a lot of scripture to push a trinity.

Good Morning Sassy Lady, How can Jesus lie??? How can He not tell the Truth???

Your quoting the Greek here does not prove your case - read your Greek again - it proves Christ has both been with the Father and is with the Father - In the very midst of Father
the (one) ὢν being εἰς into τὸν the κόλπον bosom τοῦ of the πατρὸς Father

 

[David in NJ]

That is what I said Dave, we fully agree.

Hello, Good Morning - i am having coffee soon so i will get back to you Friend -
Love God -All THREE of HIM - Father Son Holy Spirit

 

[David in NJ]

He simply did not have that aspect of it sir. All of us have holy spirit I believe, that animates our bodies. It is called the breath of life, however no Christian today has the aspect of the holy spirit to resurrect the dead. God's holy spirit has many uses in His purpose Barn.

Who told you that the Lord Jesus Christ did not have the Holy Spirit???

 

[Abaxvahl]

Yes God did reveal His name, the most recorded name in the Bible Abax, but you stopped Him short, what name did He actually give to Moses that would be His name forever?

Not sure what you are speaking of, all that is in the passage is "I am that I am," "I am," "Yahweh/He Who Is," "God of your ancestors," and "God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." I have already mentioned all of these things.

 

[keithr]

Who told you that the Lord Jesus Christ did not have the Holy Spirit???

According to the apostle Peter, on the day of Pentecost just after Jesus' resurrection, Jesus received God's Holy Spirit after he was resurrected, and that he pours out this holy Spirit onto Christians - God pours out His Spirit though Jesus.

Referring to Joel 2:28 (WEB):

“It will happen afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; and your sons and your daughters will prophesy. Your old men will dream dreams. Your young men will see visions.​

Peter said, Acts 2 (WEB):

32) This Jesus God raised up, to which we all are witnesses.
33) Being therefore exalted by the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this, which you now see and hear.​

Paul also wrote - Titus 3 (ASV):

4) But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and his love toward man, appeared,
5) not by works done in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6) which he poured out upon us richly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour;​

 

[David in NJ]

According to the apostle Peter, on the day of Pentecost just after Jesus' resurrection, Jesus received God's Holy Spirit after he was resurrected, and that he pours out this holy Spirit onto Christians - God pours out His Spirit though Jesus.

Referring to Joel 2:28 (WEB):

“It will happen afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; and your sons and your daughters will prophesy. Your old men will dream dreams. Your young men will see visions.​

Peter said, Acts 2 (WEB):

32) This Jesus God raised up, to which we all are witnesses.
33) Being therefore exalted by the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this, which you now see and hear.​

Paul also wrote - Titus 3 (ASV):

4) But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and his love toward man, appeared,
5) not by works done in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6) which he poured out upon us richly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour;​

Please read the Gospel of John - which came BEFORE Acts and Titus.

Believe what is written in the Gospel of John first - then you will understand what comes after.

 

[Abaxvahl]

According to the apostle Peter, on the day of Pentecost just after Jesus' resurrection, Jesus received God's Holy Spirit after he was resurrected, and that he pours out this holy Spirit onto Christians - God pours out His Spirit though Jesus.

Referring to Joel 2:28 (WEB):

“It will happen afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; and your sons and your daughters will prophesy. Your old men will dream dreams. Your young men will see visions.​

Peter said, Acts 2 (WEB):

32) This Jesus God raised up, to which we all are witnesses.
33) Being therefore exalted by the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this, which you now see and hear.​

Paul also wrote - Titus 3 (ASV):

4) But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and his love toward man, appeared,
5) not by works done in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6) which he poured out upon us richly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour;​

How does this prove that He did not have the Holy Spirit but not simply that He sent the Holy Spirit in time? On top of this it only proves Jesus' divinity, for He pours out the Holy Spirit as He said He would send the Holy Spirit, but the same is said of the Father by St. Paul, which shows again "all the Son sees the Father do the Son does."

But of course it is right to say in His humanity the Son received the Spirit, only that this has been for His humanity since it's existence, and not like us who were created lacking it.

 

[keithr]

How does this prove that He did not have the Holy Spirit but not simply that He sent the Holy Spirit in time?

I didn't say it proved that Jesus did not have the Holy Spirit before his resurrection. I was just pointing out some relevant verses of Scripture.

At his baptism, Matthew 3:16 (WEB):

Jesus, when he was baptized, went up directly from the water: and behold, the heavens were opened to him. He saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming on him.​

God's spirit came upon Jesus, as it had come upon people in Old Testament times, and God worked through Jesus, as He also works ,and has worked, through other people.

On top of this it only proves Jesus' divinity, for He pours out the Holy Spirit as He said He would send the Holy Spirit, but the same is said of the Father by St. Paul, which shows again "all the Son sees the Father do the Son does."

Jesus said:

John 14:26) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 16:7) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.​

Jesus had to sacrifice his life as the redemption price for mankind, and return to the Father, in order that he could receive God's promised Holy Spirit and pour that out upon Christians (Acts 2:33).

 

[BarneyFife]

How does this prove that He did not have the Holy Spirit but not simply that He sent the Holy Spirit in time? On top of this it only proves Jesus' divinity, for He pours out the Holy Spirit as He said He would send the Holy Spirit, but the same is said of the Father by St. Paul, which shows again "all the Son sees the Father do the Son does."

But of course it is right to say in His humanity the Son received the Spirit, only that this has been for His humanity since it's existence, and not like us who were created lacking it.

I don't know if you noticed, but the goalposts have been moved. Now the Holy Spirit has "aspects" to be considered. See post #901. At least he called me "sir," though. I don't know which "aspect" of the Spirit was in play in Luke 4:18. I guess we'll find out, maybe. Sometimes I can't tell when it's good to say I'm just tired of the nonsense, or whether it's just time to move on.

 

[Abaxvahl]

I didn't say it proved that Jesus did not have the Holy Spirit before his resurrection. I was just pointing out some relevant verses of Scripture.

At his baptism, Matthew 3:16 (WEB):

Jesus, when he was baptized, went up directly from the water: and behold, the heavens were opened to him. He saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming on him.​

God's spirit came upon Jesus, as it had come upon people in Old Testament times, and God worked through Jesus, as He also works ,and has worked, through other people.


Jesus said:

John 14:26) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 16:7) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.​

Jesus had to sacrifice his life as the redemption price for mankind, and return to the Father, in order that he could receive God's promised Holy Spirit and pour that out upon Christians (Acts 2:33).

Acts 2:33 does not say all that, and the Spirit coming upon Jesus does not mean He did not have it before that point.

 

[Abaxvahl]

I don't know if you noticed, but the goalposts have been moved. Now the Holy Spirit has "aspects" to be considered. See post #901. At least he called me "sir," though. I don't know which "aspect" of the Spirit was in play in Luke 4:18. I guess we'll find out, maybe. Sometimes I can't tell when it's good to say I'm just tired of the nonsense, or whether it's just time to move on.

That's amazing. Personally I just enjoy seeing the numerous interpretations and considering them in comparison to the Fathers and so on, it is educational and I learn new things from seeing these engagements or interacting myself. One amusing point is that this whole debate does not prove or disprove His divinity (I assume this was the original point of bringing it up) at all and Trinitarian teaching already acknowledges that Jesus received the Holy Spirit as man (just being created in grace, unfallen, and having the Spirit since conception/existence of the human nature).

On top of that St. Luke's Gospel in the first chapter proves Jesus had the Holy Spirit from His conception so it's really no debate to be had.

 

[Wrangler]

I don't know if you noticed, but the goalposts have been moved. Now the Holy Spirit has "aspects" to be considered.

Hmmm. I think St Paul uses the word meaning gifts. Some gifts are speaking in tongues. Other gifts are reading in hearing in different languages. Still other gifts are prophecy, which Paul says is the most useful. Hopefully, you are not playing some kind of word game with @Robert Gwin.

If Jesus is God, then Peter is the only man to walk on water. How is it he was able to do it, even for a short time, while other saints cannot? Differently gifted? Different aspects?

 

[Wrangler]

I didn't say it proved that Jesus did not have the Holy Spirit before his resurrection ...
God's spirit came upon Jesus

Definition
Logic
Language Usage

I recall that scene in Dances with Wolves when the character played by Kevin Costner wanted his hat back. If this were put into words, it logically means he did not have his hat. Logically, the only way the Spirit of God could come upon Jesus is the Spirit was not there before. What more 'proof' is needed?

It's only when someone is attempting to advance a false belief, like the inherently contradictory trinity, that Definition, Logic, Language Usage
cannot be allowed to qualify as 'proof.'

 

[Waiting on him]

He simply did not have that aspect of it sir. All of us have holy spirit I believe, that animates our bodies. It is called the breath of life, however no Christian today has the aspect of the holy spirit to resurrect the dead. God's holy spirit has many uses in His purpose Barn.

I sincerely believe Jesus to be the first man to have received this breath of life at His baptism, other than the first Adam. John the Baptist referenced it as the Bride.


John 3:29 KJV
[29] He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.


crazy thing is the voice JtB heard came from heaven?

 

[BarneyFife]

Conspicuous by its absence is "the breath of life" among the gifts/"aspects" of the Holy Spirit. A plain statement has been made that Christ did not have the Holy Spirit until His ascension. The statement is absurd. All the window dressing surrounding this discussion is of no consequence. Either Christ had the Holy Spirit before His ascension or He didn't. And He most certainly did. The scriptural evidence is overwhelming. He prophesied, He taught, He discerned spirits, He worked miracles, He healed, He was full of knowledge and wisdom; He was filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[David in NJ]

Conspicuous by its absence is "the breath of life" among the gifts/"aspects" of the Holy Spirit. A plain statement has been made that Christ did not have the Holy Spirit until His ascension. The statement is absurd. All the window dressing surrounding this discussion is of no consequence. Either Christ had the Holy Spirit before His ascension or He didn't. And He most certainly did. The scriptural evidence is overwhelming. He prophesied, He taught, He discerned spirits, He worked miracles, He healed, He was full of knowledge and wisdom; He was filled with the Holy Spirit.

Emphasis on "ABSURD" is correct, according to Scripture.

 

[David in NJ]

Definition
Logic
Language Usage

I recall that scene in Dances with Wolves when the character played by Kevin Costner wanted his hat back. If this were put into words, it logically means he did not have his hat. Logically, the only way the Spirit of God could come upon Jesus is the Spirit was not there before. What more 'proof' is needed?

It's only when someone is attempting to advance a false belief, like the inherently contradictory trinity, that Definition, Logic, Language Usage
cannot be allowed to qualify as 'proof.'

That is human carnal logic which cannot understand the things of God.

 

[Wrangler]

Conspicuous by its absence is "the breath of life" among the gifts/"aspects" of the Holy Spirit.

While I appreciate the reliance on explicit textual reference, again logic leads the way. If "the breath of life" is NOT among the gifts/"aspects" of the Holy Spirit, on what basis caused the act of Creation?

Some say God is a gardener, an artist, a creator, a warrior. All require a certain kind of Spirit.

 

[BarneyFife]

Either Christ had the Holy Spirit before His ascension or He didn't. And He most certainly did.