She needed saving from the effects of original sin because either:Tong2020 said: ↑
I was not saying or suggesting anything. I was reacting to what your brethren in the RCC said regarding Mary, and I quote “In the first moment of her existence God created her without original sin”.
<<<But Mary needed a saviour to save her from the effects of original sin that she would normally be afflicted with as we all are.>>>
Can I read anything about that conception and about how she was supposedly saved from the effects of original sin? Or is this just a speculation or conjecture or a make belief?
Why do you say that Mary needed a Savior to save her from the effects of ‘original sin’?
a) Jesus would have been afflicted wither effects of original sin
or
b) Jesus would need a saviour.
Jesus was conceived pure and immaculate because Mary was pure and immaculate. As Job said “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.” (Job 14:4).
We can be saved in two ways. An example often given is falling into a muddy pit.
1. Being rescued from the muddy pit after we have fallen into it
2. Being prevented from falling into that muddy it at the moment we are about to fall into it
In Lk 1:18 the angel greets Mary with the Greek word kecharitomene which is sometimes translated as “highly favoured”. However this a rather weak translation and more accurately is should be translated as “full of grace”. Even that is a simplification. The Greek kecharitomene is the perfect passive participle of the Greek charitoo. It means endowed with grace. The Greek perfect tense denotes something which took place in the past and continues in the present.
"It is permissible, on Greek grammatical and linguistic grounds, to paraphrase kecharitomene as completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace." (Blass and DeBrunner, Greek Grammar of the New Testament, (University of Chicago Press, 1961), 166; H.W. Smyth, Greek Grammar (Cambridge Harvard University Press, 1968, sect 1852:b. - citation from Dave Armstong's A Biblical Defense of Catholicism, p178)
So Mary was completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.
<<<She needed saving from the effects of original sin because either:
a) Jesus would have been afflicted wither effects of original sin
or
b) Jesus would need a saviour.>>>
Can I read anything about that in scriptures? If so, please cite the scriptures. If not, is this just RCC reasoning using human logic, or is this speculation, or is this conjecture, or is this make belief?
Also, may I know your response to my question “Can I read anything about that conception and about how she was supposedly saved from the effects of original sin?”
<<<In Lk 1:18 the angel greets Mary with the Greek word kecharitomene which is sometimes translated as “highly favoured”. However this a rather weak translation and more accurately is should be translated as “full of grace”. >>>
I think you are referring to Luke 1:28.
To take “ketcharitomene” as “full of grace” would put Mary equal to Jesus in that respect, for in John 1:14, Jesus is said to be full of grace. Do you or RCC believe and teach that Mary is equal to Jesus in that respect?
Tong
R4676