Biblical Mary
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The Meaning of Kecharitomene: Full of Grace (Luke 1:28)
by pfairban at the Catholic-Convert.com discussion board
For a FULL ARTICLE on the Theology and History of the Immaculate Conception
This is kind of a return to an old thread. The main point here is that, just as the man Christ Jesus is excepted from original sin (including original sin as described in various places in Romans, with such statements by St. Paul as "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" and "death passed to all men because all have sinned") and just as that fact can be demonstrated from specific Scriptural verses when those verses are correctly understood, Mary is excepted from original sin and this fact can be demonstrated from specific verses. One well-known verse that shows this is Luke 1:28, and particularly the angel Gabriel's salutation to Mary: "Chaire, Kecharitomene" (translated in the Douay-Rheims and other Catholic versions as "Hail, Full of Grace" or "gratia plena" in the Latin Vulgate).
To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David: and the virgin’s name was Mary. And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. Who having heard, was troubled at his saying and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God. (Luke 1:27-30 Douay-Rheims); [Latin Vulgate: ad virginem desponsatam viro cui nomen erat Ioseph de domo David et nomen virginis Maria et ingressus angelus ad eam dixit have gratia plena Dominus tecum benedicta tu in mulieribus quae cum vidisset turbata est in sermone eius et cogitabat qualis esset ista salutatio et ait angelus ei ne timeas Maria invenisti enim gratiam apud Deum....]
Tangent time: In the old thread, one of our wizened protestant fellow-travelers pointed out that the word Gabriel uses when saluting Mary, "Kecharitomene" is formed from the same root (charitoo) as a word used in one of the great early Christian hymns (I wish that the Catholic hymn writers would do a modern version, they actually are pretty good at doing Scripturally-based hymns). The hymn appears in the first chapter of Ephesians (ironically, the letter to the Ephesians was probably written by Luke, as well, but this hymn probably was not, it probably pre-existed the letter). There, the relevant stanza is
"for the praise of the glory of his grace that he granted us in the beloved" (Ephesians 1:6).
The variant of charitoo here is echaritosen. While Kecharitomene is, according to everything I've read, a perfect passive participle, echaritosen is an indicative active aorist. Kecharitomene means "having been" or "have already been" graced, according to this commentary on the Book of Zechariah -- talking about perfect passive participles in a different context and a different verse [brackets indicate where I am inserting "graced" for the word in the relevant text]:
"That which will accompany, and be a result of, Jewish recognition, is a direct quotation from the Septuagint in Ps. 118:26, 'Blessed be he that comes in the name of the LORD.' This verse also is better understood with a Greek analysis. The word Blessed, 'eulogamenos' is a perfect passive participle. It literally means 'having been blessed or praised.' The 'perfect' action of the participle is considered to have been completed before the time of the speaker. How long before is not a consideration but the Greek verbal idea is that the action has already been completed. Time is still secondary but perfected action must imply the past in relationship to the speaker. The person using the word is confessing that the one referred to has already been blessed [or graced]." (Zechariah and Jewish Renewal: From Gloom to Glory by Fred P. Miller, chapter 31 on Zechariah 20)
Other examples of the perfect tense and what it means:
"There are seven tenses of the Greek verb. They are: the Aorist, Present, Imperfect, Future, Pluperfect, and Future Perfect. Let us exemplify the Perfect and Present tenses. In the words of the Greek grammarian J. Gresham Machen, 'The Greek perfect tense denotes the present state resultant upon a past action' (New Testament Greek for Beginners, p. 187). The perfect is used in Matthew 4:4,7,10 ('it is written'). Literally translated, 'It has been written in the past and is still in force.' Hence, Jesus expresses the continuing authority of God’s written law by using the perfect tense." ("How About the Greek Language?" from BibleQuestions.org)
"...Ephesians 2:8, 'For by grace are you saved through faith...' The word 'saved' is translated from the Greek word sesosmenoi, which is a perfect passive participle. It means that this salvation took place at some point in the past and is continuing on in the present...." ("The Lord is not Slack Concerning His Promise" from CephasMinistry.com)
In other words, the perfect tense in Greek is a past tense with a special meaning: it is used to refer to a past action which has effects felt in the present. So, here's what some modern, English-speaking scholars tell us "Kecharitomene" denotes, based purely on the definition of the word and its grammatical usage:
" 'Highly favoured' (kecharitomene). Perfect passive participle of charitoo and means endowed with grace (charis), enriched with grace as in Ephesians 1:6 . . . The Vulgate gratiae plena [full of grace] "is right, if it means 'full of grace which thou hast received'; wrong, if it means 'full of grace which thou hast to bestow' " (A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament, p. 14)
"It is permissible, on Greek grammatical and linguistic grounds, to paraphrase kecharitomene as completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace." (Blass and DeBrunner, Greek Grammar of the New Testament).
However, Luke 1:28 uses a special conjugated form of "charitoo." It uses "kecharitomene," while Ephesians 1:6 uses "echaritosen," which is a different form of the verb "charitoo." Echaritosen means "he graced" (or bestowed grace). Echaritosen signifies a momentary action, an action brought to pass (Blass and DeBrunner, Greek Grammar of the New Testament, p. 166). Whereas, Kecharitomene, the perfect passive participle, shows a completeness with a permanent result. Kecharitomene denotes continuance of a completed action (H. W. Smyth, Greek Grammar [Harvard Univ Press, 1968], p. 108-109, sec 1852:b; also Blass and DeBrunner, p. 175).
And our friend's citation of what the term denotes:
"...to bestow grace, to show favor to someone...the divine favor for a special vocation...." (Fritz Rienecker/Cleon Rogers in their Linguistic Key to the Greek New Testament)
Ironically, that final definition is essentially coextensive with the Catholic understanding of the why of Mary's sinlessness --
Supreme Reason for the Privilege: The Divine Maternity
"And indeed it was wholly fitting that so wonderful a mother should be ever resplendent with the glory of most sublime holiness and so completely free from all taint of original sin that she would triumph utterly over the ancient serpent. To her did the Father will to give his only-begotten Son -- the Son whom, equal to the Father and begotten by him, the Father loves from his heart -- and to give this Son in such a way that he would be the one and the same common Son of God the Father and of the Blessed Virgin Mary. It was she whom the Son himself chose to make his Mother and it was from her that the Holy Spirit willed and brought it about that he should be conceived and born from whom he himself proceeds."
(Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus)
However, I still haven't really gotten to my argument: whatever the denotation of "chaire, Kecharitomene," its connotation, what it actually meant to ancient Greek-speakers, is why it is communicating precisely that Mary was immaculately conceived.
Contd....
Contd...
The Greek Fathers
Here are a number of ancient experts and what they say it means; each of them is a Greek-speaker from a culture basically identical to that of St. Luke; there are a couple repeats from the previous thread, but from them I give new material, too; the passages are expositions by the authors of the meaning of Luke 1:28, generally centered on chaire, Kecharitomene:
Gregory Thaumaturgus (205-270 AD):
O purest one
O purest virgin
where the Holy Spirit is, there are all things readily ordered.
Where divine grace is present
the soil that, all untilled, bears bounteous fruit
in the life of the flesh, was in possession of the incorruptible citizenship,
and walked as such in all manner of virtues, and lived a life more excellent than man's common standard
thou hast put on the vesture of purity
has selected thee as the holy one and the wholly fair;
and through thy holy, and chaste, and pure, and undefiled womb
since of all the race of man thou art by birth the holy one,
and the more honourable, and the purer, and the more pious than any other:
and thou hast a mind whiter than the snow, and a body made purer than any gold
Akathist hymn (5th or 6th century AD):
Hail, O you, through whom Joy will shine forth!
Hail, O you, through whom the curse will disappear!
Hail, O Restoration of the Fallen Adam!
Hail, O Redemption of the Tears of Eve!
Hail, O Peak above the reach of human thought!
Hail, O Depth even beyond the sight of angels!
Hail, O you who have become a Kingly Throne!
Hail, O you who carry Him Who Carries All!
Hail, O Star who manifest the Sun!
Hail, O Womb of the Divine Incarnation!
Hail, O you through whom creation is renewed!
Hail, O you through whom the Creator becomes a Babe!
Hail, O Bride and Maiden ever-pure!
Theodotus of Ancyra (early 5th century AD):
Hail, our desirable gladness;
Hail, O rejoicing of the churches;
Hail, O name that breathes out sweetness;
Hail, face that radiates divinity and grace;
Hail, most venerable memory;
Hail, O spiritual and saving fleece;
Hail, O Mother of unsetting splendor, filled with light;
Hail, unstained Mother of holiness;
Hail, most limpid font of the lifegiving wave;
Hail, new Mother, workshop of the birth.
Hail, ineffable mother of a mystery beyond understanding;
Hail, new book of a new Scripture, of which, as Isaiah tells, angels and men are faithful witnesses;
Hail, alabaster jar of sanctifying ointment;
Hail, best trader of the coin of virginity;
Hail, creature embracing your Creator;
Hail, little container containing the Uncontainable.
(Homily 4:3; PG 77:1391B-C; Gambero, page 267-8)
"In the place of Eve, an instrument of death, is chosen a Virgin, most pleasing to God and full of His grace, as an instrument of life. A Virgin included in woman's sex, but without a share in woman's fault. A Virgin innocent; immaculate; free from all guilt; spotless; undefiled; holy in spirit and body; a lily among thorns." (Theodotus, Hom 6 in S. Deiparam, No 11; PG 77:1427A) or another translation: "Innocent virgin, spotless, without defect, untouched, unstained, holy in body and in soul, like a lily flower sprung among thorns, unschooled in the wickedness of Eve, unclouded by womanly vanity...Even before the Nativity, she was consecrated to the Creator...Holy apprentice, guest in the Temple, disciple of the law, anointed by the Holy Spirit, clothed with divine grace as with a cloak, divinely wise in your mind; united to God in your heart...Praiseworthy in your speech, even more praiseworthy in your action...God in the eyes of men, better in the sight of God." (Theodotus, Hom 6:11; Gambero, page 268)
"What did the divine messenger do then? Perceiving the Virgin's interior dispositions and perspicacity in her outward appearance and admiring her just prudence, he began to weave her a kind of floral crown with two peaks: one of joy and one of blessing; then he addressed her in a thrilling speech of praise, lifting up his hand and crying out: 'Hail, O full of grace, the Lord is with you, you are blessed' (Lk 1:28), O most beautiful and most noble among women. The Lord is with you, O all-holy one, glorious and good. The Lord is with you, O worthy of praise, O incomparable, O more than glorious, all splendor, worthy of God, worthy of all blessedness....Through you, Eve's odious condition is ended; through you, abjection has been destroyed; through you, error is dissolved; through you, sorrow is abolished; through you, condemnation has been erased. Through you, Eve has been redeemed. He who is born of the holy [Virgin] is holy, holy and Lord of all the saints, holy and Giver of holiness. Wondrous is he who generated the Woman of wonder; Ineffable is he who precedes the Woman beyond words; Son of the Most High is he who springs from this highest creature, he who appears, not by man's willing it, but by the power of the Holy Spirit; he who is born is not a mere man, but God, the incarnate Word." (Theodotus, On the Mother of God and on the Nativity; Patrologia orientalis 19:330-1; Gambero, page 271)
According to Fr. Luigi Gambero, author of Mary and the Fathers of the Church, "This kind of apostrophe addressed to the Virgin occurs frequently in Greek homilies of the fifth century onward; it constitutes a literary form called chairetismoi, from the Greek word chaire, which translates as 'hail' or 'rejoice' (cf. Luke 1:28)."
Romanos the Melodist (d. c. 560 AD):
Hail, untouched Virgin!
Hail, chosen spouse of God!
Hail holy one!
Hail, delightful and beautiful!
Hail, joyful sight!
Hail, unseeded earth!
Hail, uncontaminate!
Hail, Mother who knows not man!
Hail, Virgin Bride!
John the Theologian (c. 400 AD):
"[T]he Lord said to his Mother, ‘Let your heart rejoice and be glad, for every favor and every gift has been given to you from my Father in heaven and from me and from the Holy Spirit. Every soul that calls upon your name shall not be ashamed, but shall find mercy and comfort and support and confidence, both in the world that now is and in that which is to come, in the presence of my Father in the heavens’" (The Falling Asleep of Mary).
This previous one appears also to be a commentary on Luke 1:28, but that's debatable. Another one of my favorite expositions on the meaning of Kecharitomene occurs at this link, the rule for an 11th or early 12th century Greek monastery; it's too long to completely recite (see Typikon of Empress Irene Doukaina Komnene for the Convent of the Mother of God Kecharitomene in Constantinople, trans. Robert Jordan).
So, there you go, what pre-industrial Greek-speakers say "Kecharitomene" means in the context of Luke 1:28.
The Greek Fathers
Here are a number of ancient experts and what they say it means; each of them is a Greek-speaker from a culture basically identical to that of St. Luke; there are a couple repeats from the previous thread, but from them I give new material, too; the passages are expositions by the authors of the meaning of Luke 1:28, generally centered on chaire, Kecharitomene:
Gregory Thaumaturgus (205-270 AD):
O purest one
O purest virgin
where the Holy Spirit is, there are all things readily ordered.
Where divine grace is present
the soil that, all untilled, bears bounteous fruit
in the life of the flesh, was in possession of the incorruptible citizenship,
and walked as such in all manner of virtues, and lived a life more excellent than man's common standard
thou hast put on the vesture of purity
has selected thee as the holy one and the wholly fair;
and through thy holy, and chaste, and pure, and undefiled womb
since of all the race of man thou art by birth the holy one,
and the more honourable, and the purer, and the more pious than any other:
and thou hast a mind whiter than the snow, and a body made purer than any gold
Akathist hymn (5th or 6th century AD):
Hail, O you, through whom Joy will shine forth!
Hail, O you, through whom the curse will disappear!
Hail, O Restoration of the Fallen Adam!
Hail, O Redemption of the Tears of Eve!
Hail, O Peak above the reach of human thought!
Hail, O Depth even beyond the sight of angels!
Hail, O you who have become a Kingly Throne!
Hail, O you who carry Him Who Carries All!
Hail, O Star who manifest the Sun!
Hail, O Womb of the Divine Incarnation!
Hail, O you through whom creation is renewed!
Hail, O you through whom the Creator becomes a Babe!
Hail, O Bride and Maiden ever-pure!
Theodotus of Ancyra (early 5th century AD):
Hail, our desirable gladness;
Hail, O rejoicing of the churches;
Hail, O name that breathes out sweetness;
Hail, face that radiates divinity and grace;
Hail, most venerable memory;
Hail, O spiritual and saving fleece;
Hail, O Mother of unsetting splendor, filled with light;
Hail, unstained Mother of holiness;
Hail, most limpid font of the lifegiving wave;
Hail, new Mother, workshop of the birth.
Hail, ineffable mother of a mystery beyond understanding;
Hail, new book of a new Scripture, of which, as Isaiah tells, angels and men are faithful witnesses;
Hail, alabaster jar of sanctifying ointment;
Hail, best trader of the coin of virginity;
Hail, creature embracing your Creator;
Hail, little container containing the Uncontainable.
(Homily 4:3; PG 77:1391B-C; Gambero, page 267-8)
"In the place of Eve, an instrument of death, is chosen a Virgin, most pleasing to God and full of His grace, as an instrument of life. A Virgin included in woman's sex, but without a share in woman's fault. A Virgin innocent; immaculate; free from all guilt; spotless; undefiled; holy in spirit and body; a lily among thorns." (Theodotus, Hom 6 in S. Deiparam, No 11; PG 77:1427A) or another translation: "Innocent virgin, spotless, without defect, untouched, unstained, holy in body and in soul, like a lily flower sprung among thorns, unschooled in the wickedness of Eve, unclouded by womanly vanity...Even before the Nativity, she was consecrated to the Creator...Holy apprentice, guest in the Temple, disciple of the law, anointed by the Holy Spirit, clothed with divine grace as with a cloak, divinely wise in your mind; united to God in your heart...Praiseworthy in your speech, even more praiseworthy in your action...God in the eyes of men, better in the sight of God." (Theodotus, Hom 6:11; Gambero, page 268)
"What did the divine messenger do then? Perceiving the Virgin's interior dispositions and perspicacity in her outward appearance and admiring her just prudence, he began to weave her a kind of floral crown with two peaks: one of joy and one of blessing; then he addressed her in a thrilling speech of praise, lifting up his hand and crying out: 'Hail, O full of grace, the Lord is with you, you are blessed' (Lk 1:28), O most beautiful and most noble among women. The Lord is with you, O all-holy one, glorious and good. The Lord is with you, O worthy of praise, O incomparable, O more than glorious, all splendor, worthy of God, worthy of all blessedness....Through you, Eve's odious condition is ended; through you, abjection has been destroyed; through you, error is dissolved; through you, sorrow is abolished; through you, condemnation has been erased. Through you, Eve has been redeemed. He who is born of the holy [Virgin] is holy, holy and Lord of all the saints, holy and Giver of holiness. Wondrous is he who generated the Woman of wonder; Ineffable is he who precedes the Woman beyond words; Son of the Most High is he who springs from this highest creature, he who appears, not by man's willing it, but by the power of the Holy Spirit; he who is born is not a mere man, but God, the incarnate Word." (Theodotus, On the Mother of God and on the Nativity; Patrologia orientalis 19:330-1; Gambero, page 271)
According to Fr. Luigi Gambero, author of Mary and the Fathers of the Church, "This kind of apostrophe addressed to the Virgin occurs frequently in Greek homilies of the fifth century onward; it constitutes a literary form called chairetismoi, from the Greek word chaire, which translates as 'hail' or 'rejoice' (cf. Luke 1:28)."
Romanos the Melodist (d. c. 560 AD):
Hail, untouched Virgin!
Hail, chosen spouse of God!
Hail holy one!
Hail, delightful and beautiful!
Hail, joyful sight!
Hail, unseeded earth!
Hail, uncontaminate!
Hail, Mother who knows not man!
Hail, Virgin Bride!
John the Theologian (c. 400 AD):
"[T]he Lord said to his Mother, ‘Let your heart rejoice and be glad, for every favor and every gift has been given to you from my Father in heaven and from me and from the Holy Spirit. Every soul that calls upon your name shall not be ashamed, but shall find mercy and comfort and support and confidence, both in the world that now is and in that which is to come, in the presence of my Father in the heavens’" (The Falling Asleep of Mary).
This previous one appears also to be a commentary on Luke 1:28, but that's debatable. Another one of my favorite expositions on the meaning of Kecharitomene occurs at this link, the rule for an 11th or early 12th century Greek monastery; it's too long to completely recite (see Typikon of Empress Irene Doukaina Komnene for the Convent of the Mother of God Kecharitomene in Constantinople, trans. Robert Jordan).
So, there you go, what pre-industrial Greek-speakers say "Kecharitomene" means in the context of Luke 1:28.
Thank you for the effort you put into that. Nonetheless, I still see no reason for me to have “pleres charitos” = “kecharitomene”.
And my observation/argument/question remains.
If by a miracle, a natural conception could bring forth Mary as sinless and immaculate and without the original sin that the RCC teach, it is strange that it could not be with Jesus, that for Jesus to be without original sin, it needs for Mary to be without sin and original sin as well.
If God can do it with Mary, why not with Jesus?
Curious further, why not have a title Immaculate Conception of Jesus?
Tong
R4707
The definition of the Immaculate Conception states that it was "by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race".
1.How could Jesus merit his own Immaculate Conception? It sounds a bit circular to say Jesus saved himself at the moment of his own conception.
Then there is the point that Jesus should have a pure and holy dwelling place.
Also the statement from Job “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.” (Job 14:4).
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
1. Why would jesus need saved? Adams seed did not touch him. so he was not "in adam" hence he was not born dead
2. Adams seed touched mary. So she was in adam
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="Eternally Grateful, post: 1141855, member: 8558"
It’s a matter of trusting God who is the one who establishes authority in men!
ever heard of Moses? Why
probably never heard this either
Christ and his church are one acts 9;4
salvation is only possible in the new covenant church founded by Christ Matt 16:18-19 1 pet 3:20-21 the church is the ark of salvation entered by baptism
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
Noah’s ark was a type of the church and no one outside the ark lived so no one outside the church’s has eternal life
It’s a matter of trusting God who is the one who establishes authority in men!
ever heard of Moses? Why
probably never heard this either
Christ and his church are one acts 9;4
salvation is only possible in the new covenant church founded by Christ Matt 16:18-19 1 pet 3:20-21 the church is the ark of salvation entered by baptism
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
Noah’s ark was a type of the church and no one outside the ark lived so no one outside the church’s has eternal life
Christ is king and when we obey and submit to his ministers and representatives we are submitting to Christ
how different is a Christian
Faithful
Obedient
Submissive
Humble
Meek
Patient
opposed to your pride presumption and arrogance
Protests
Disobedience
And the rebellion of heretics
Well, a title of Immaculate Conception of Jesus could be given a different meaning, right? So, why not?
And what would be your response to this:
If by a miracle, a natural conception could bring forth Mary as sinless and immaculate and without the original sin that the RCC teach, it is strange that it could not be with Jesus, that for Jesus to be without original sin, it needs for Mary to be without sin and original sin as well.
If God can do it with Mary, why not with Jesus?
Tong
R4710
I don't usually engage much in this area for different reasons, but I read your statement and the one sentence highlighted in blue caught my eye. Could you make a connection between that the word I highlighted in the following verse?
"And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20
I already have an idea about the Matthew highlight, but would be interested in any connection you might make.
My own idea is that Jesus is the Head of the Body of Christ. When he spoke those words there was not yet any Body of Christ [Church] on which to lay/rest his Head. The Body was not ready, the people of which it consist were still impure and unclean, not yet prepared to be a part of a Body on which Jesus could be the Head.
How clean was the womb of Mary? How clean was the infant Jesus when he came out of that womb?
What did Jesus have to overcome before being ready to go to the cross and be crucified?
What was the difference between the baby Jesus and the overcomer Jesus who went to the cross?
I am not wanting to argue or prove a point but rather to hear a point of view which explains or amplifies even if it may also raise additional questions. Thank you for anything you can provide here.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
lol
I protest a pagan religion that claims to be the bride of Christ.
You protest Christ himself.
anyway, Been here done that. You won't hear anything, You have shown this.
the successors are in the seat of Moses
Matt 23 he was mediator not high priest
the old priesthood was temporary until Christ came
5. What happened to the authority of Moses when Jesus came and became the mediator of a new covenant?
taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles and their successors Matt 21:43 Matt 16:18-19 18:18
6. What authority did Jesus gave the chosen apostles?
the same mission ministry power and authority as Christ Jn 20:21-23
7. Did Jesus gave commandment to the apostles about succession? What commandment did Jesus give them?
same as his successors Jn 20:21-23
Christ has authority to make and send apostles do the apostles having the same authority do likewise until Christ returns
Christ and his church are one acts 9:4
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
you accuse the church of being pagan
Christ and his church are one acts 9:4 so you are accusing Christ of being pagan
Also an attack on the church is an attack on Christ
The one true founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18-19 18:18 prevails until his return without error Jn 16:13 with the same mission power and authority as christ Jn 20:21-23
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