John 14:6 and Context

[charity]

if?
why if?
i suggest that if is a pretty big word

'Let not your heart be troubled:
ye believe in God,
believe also in Me.
In My Father's house are many mansions:
IF it were not so,
I would have told you.
I go to prepare a place for you.
And IF I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come again,
and receive you unto Myself;
that where I am,
there ye may be also.'
(Joh 14:1)

Hello @bbyrd009,

Yes, I agree, it can be a big word in terms of importance sometimes.

This IF is confirmed in the words, 'I go to prepare a place for you': there is no doubt or contingency about it's coming to pass.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[bbyrd009]

there is no doubt or contingency about it's coming to pass.

ha ok then
gnosticism is so reassuring, innit?

anyway i suggest that the “if” is meant to indicate “this is a perspective”

 

[Curtis]

As Paul mentioned in verse 50 they will not physically enter into the heavens, nor did Jesus maam.

WHAT!?

Jesus rose bodily and visibly as scripture makes not just clear, but ridiculously clear, from Jesus saying tear down this temple, His body, and He will rebuild it in three days, to His saying he isn’t a spirit, but has a body of flesh and bone, to having the apostles touch Him and His scars, to eating a fish, then ascending bodily and visibly to heaven in Acts 1.

These facts are incontrovertible and unequivocal!

The watchtower is absolutely wrong. Jesus isn’t an invisible man. He rose bodily.

 

[Curtis]

'Let not your heart be troubled:
ye believe in God,
believe also in Me.
In My Father's house are many mansions:
IF it were not so,
I would have told you.
I go to prepare a place for you.
And IF I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come again,
and receive you unto Myself;
that where I am,
there ye may be also.'
(Joh 14:1)

Hello @bbyrd009,

Yes, I agree, it can be a big word in terms of importance sometimes.

This IF is confirmed in the words, 'I go to prepare a place for you': there is no doubt or contingency about it's coming to pass.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

The place Jesus is preparing for us descends our of heaven in Revelation 21, BTW.

 

[Robert Gwin]

it doth not yet appear what we shall be:
but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him
(1 John 3:2)​

He is in heaven, is He not?
and He was physically resurrected -- a body, His own body, scars and all, this is what ascended.
He ate a fish, with honey: irrefutable proof. ((Luke 24:42-43))

Both Paul and Jesus are in heaven we believe Post. No neither were resurrected physically. Jesus' body was sacrificed in our behalf. And Paul was an anointed Christian who was resurrected in the first resurrection. All of those will reside in heaven, where flesh and blood cannot go. All beings who reside in the heavens, are as the angels and God, spirit beings.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Hello @Robert Gwin,

What Scripture are you referring to, please?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris, 1 Cor 15, the chapter the poster was talking about.

 

[Robert Gwin]

WHAT!?

Jesus rose bodily and visibly as scripture makes not just clear, but ridiculously clear, from Jesus saying tear down this temple, His body, and He will rebuild it in three days, to His saying he isn’t a spirit, but has a body of flesh and bone, to having the apostles touch Him and His scars, to eating a fish, then ascending bodily and visibly to heaven in Acts 1.

These facts are incontrovertible and unequivocal!

The watchtower is absolutely wrong. Jesus isn’t an invisible man. He rose bodily.

Jesus gave his flesh and blood in sacrifice for what Adam lost for humans. One cannot take back what was offered. Jesus fulfilled his role, and returned to heaven as the being he was prior to coming to heaven. Jesus heavenly life was not sacrificed, only his earthly life. God did reward him however, and promoted him to the #2 position in heaven, sitting at His right hand, and subjecting everything to him, with the exception of Himself of course.

If as you say he took back the sacrifice, on what basis do we have hope?

 

[charity]

As Paul mentioned in verse 50 they will not physically enter into the heavens, nor did Jesus maam.

Hi Chris, 1 Cor 15, the chapter the poster was talking about.

'Now this I say, brethren,
that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;
neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery;
We shall not all sleep,
but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:
for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
and we shall be changed.'
(1Cor. 15:50-52)

Hello @Robert Gwin,

The OP did reference 1 Corinthians 15, but the main subject of the OP was with reference to John 14:1-6.

* In reply#9, you refer to 1 Corinthians 15:50, quoted above, and say that that verse indicates that our Lord did not enter heaven and that neither will the subjects of John 14 ( His disciples). Yet, 1 Corinthians 15:50 does not indicate that at all. It, combined with what follows in verses 51-52+ merely tell us that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God: that a change has to take place, and that it will, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye at the point of resurrection.

* The Lord ascended far above all heavens, to His Father (John 20:17). John, in John 3:13 tells us that He is now in heaven, 'And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.'

He will return to receive His Own unto Himself:-
'In my Father's house are many mansions:
if it were not so, I would have told you.
I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come again, and receive you unto Myself;
that where I am, there ye may be also.'
(Joh 14:2)

* Those to whom the Lord spoke in John 14, will be with Him where He is.

'But every man in his own order:
Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.
Then cometh the end,
when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father;
when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.'
(1Cor. 15:23-24)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[soul man]

'And if I go and prepare a place for you.
I will come again, and receive you unto Myself;
that where I am, there ye may be also.
And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Thomas saith unto Him,

"Lord, we know not whither Thou goest;
and how can we know the way?"​

Jesus saith unto him,

"I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me."​

(John 14:3-6)

Hello there,

Isn't it amazing that you can read certain verses over and over again, and then one day you do so again and see something that you had not seen before.

I have quoted John 14:6 many times, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.' Yet looking at it now within it's context once again, I am seeing something within it that I have not previously seen.

The Lord was talking to His disciples in John 14:1+, telling them that He was going to His Father's house, where there are many mansions, and that He is going to prepare a place for them. Then He would return and receive them unto Himself, that where He was, there they may be also.

Then He tells them that they knew both where He was going and the way to get there. Thomas says, 'Lord, we know not whither Thou goest; and how can we know the way?' Yet the Lord had told them that He was going to His Father, and that He would return and receive them unto Himself. He had not spoken in terms of location or given a map reference, it was sufficient that He had told them Whom He was to go to, and that He would return to bring them to be with Him, being the only true and living way to the Father.

Does this not show that self effort is useless in this regard? For the only way to the Father is by the Lord coming to receive them to Himself. It will require either resurrection, or for those who are 'alive and remain' at His return a change in a moment in the twinkling of an eye as in 1 Thessalonians 4. There is no talk here of the disciples going to be with the Lord at death, for they cannot get there without the Lord's physical presence coming to take them there. He, physically, is the only way to the Father.

The disciples will physically go to the Father, not as disembodied spirits, but as living souls, in possession of a new body prepared for them (1 Corinthians 15). The Lord Jesus, Himself, bodily, is the only way to get there.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

The Father is filling his house!

 

[Curtis]

Jesus gave his flesh and blood in sacrifice for what Adam lost for humans. One cannot take back what was offered. Jesus fulfilled his role, and returned to heaven as the being he was prior to coming to heaven. Jesus heavenly life was not sacrificed, only his earthly life. God did reward him however, and promoted him to the #2 position in heaven, sitting at His right hand, and subjecting everything to him, with the exception of Himself of course.

If as you say he took back the sacrifice, on what basis do we have hope?

Jesus gave His earthly life, died AND WAS BODILY RESURRECTED and scriptures are unequivocal that Jesus rose bodily, so that bogus claim won’t wash.

It’s preposterous and ludicrous and biblically illiterate to deny the undeniable.

 

[bbyrd009]

well, The kingdom of heaven is within you though right

Both Paul and Jesus are in heaven we believe Post. No neither were resurrected physically. Jesus' body was sacrificed in our behalf. And Paul was an anointed Christian who was resurrected in the first resurrection. All of those will reside in heaven, where flesh and blood cannot go. All beings who reside in the heavens, are as the angels and God, spirit beings.

No one has ever gone up to heaven
There is only One Immortal
?

 

[Robert Gwin]

'Now this I say, brethren,
that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;
neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery;
We shall not all sleep,
but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:
for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
and we shall be changed.'
(1Cor. 15:50-52)

Hello @Robert Gwin,

The OP did reference 1 Corinthians 15, but the main subject of the OP was with reference to John 14:1-6.

* In reply#9, you refer to 1 Corinthians 15:50, quoted above, and say that that verse indicates that our Lord did not enter heaven and that neither will the subjects of John 14 ( His disciples). Yet, 1 Corinthians 15:50 does not indicate that at all. It, combined with what follows in verses 51-52+ merely tell us that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God: that a change has to take place, and that it will, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye at the point of resurrection.

* The Lord ascended far above all heavens, to His Father (John 20:17). John, in John 3:13 tells us that He is now in heaven, 'And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.'

He will return to receive His Own unto Himself:-
'In my Father's house are many mansions:
if it were not so, I would have told you.
I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come again, and receive you unto Myself;
that where I am, there ye may be also.'
(Joh 14:2)

* Those to whom the Lord spoke in John 14, will be with Him where He is.

'But every man in his own order:
Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.
Then cometh the end,
when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father;
when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.'
(1Cor. 15:23-24)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I do not disagree with this post maam, but keep in mind the reason they go there and the number of those who leave the earth for that position. Most of them have been resurrected already, and upon Jesus' return the remainder will be changed in a twinkling of the eye. Most people call this the "rapture". We are near to that occurrence.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Jesus gave His earthly life, died AND WAS BODILY RESURRECTED and scriptures are unequivocal that Jesus rose bodily, so that bogus claim won’t wash.

It’s preposterous and ludicrous and biblically illiterate to deny the undeniable.

The Bible never states Jesus rose bodily, you did. In fact it states he was raised a spirit: (1 Peter 3:18) . . .He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.

Let me ask you Curt, if the sacrifice was taken back, on what basis can man be forgiven?

 

[Robert Gwin]

well, The kingdom of heaven is within you though right

No one has ever gone up to heaven
There is only One Immortal
?

Actually Byrd, we believe along with many faiths that the first resurrection has happened.

I personally do not understand immortality. Although I don't think you meant it, but I definitely agree that Jehovah is immortal, but under His laws, how could anyone else be? One thing is certain however Jesus is immortal, as stated at 1 Tim 6:16

You misunderstand what Jesus was saying to the wicked leaders of the faith, he was not saying the Kingdom was within them, rather that he being the King of the Kingdom was right there among them, yet they failed to accept him as such. He said of them they were hypocrites and blind guides, certainly not having the Kingdom within them.

 

[bbyrd009]

Actually Byrd, we believe along with many faiths that the first resurrection has happened

”we?”

 

[bbyrd009]

You misunderstand what Jesus was saying to the wicked leaders of the faith, he was not saying the Kingdom was within them, rather that he being the King of the Kingdom was right there among them, yet they failed to accept him as such. He said of them they were hypocrites and blind guides, certainly not having the Kingdom within them

seems to me that Jesus would be a pretty big “observable sign” in that case? dunno
Jesus describing Himself as “the kingdom of heaven” is also a rather tortured interpretation to me
we two currently function under different definitions of “Jesus” tho, i guess

so, my reply here is that there are other possibilities, imo; the kingdom of heaven might be “in our midst” even absent a literal Jesus, or it might even be a reflection of “Christ in us,” dunno, but i would be suspect of any interpretation that denies no one has ever gone up to heaven but He Who came down from it and There is only One Immortal, personally.

iow if the intent is to retain the possibility of attaining a literal heaven in an “afterlife” for the soul—which it seems it invariably is?—i would currently be skeptical.

 

[charity]

I do not disagree with this post maam, but keep in mind the reason they go there and the number of those who leave the earth for that position. Most of them have been resurrected already, and upon Jesus' return the remainder will be changed in a twinkling of the eye. Most people call this the "rapture". We are near to that occurrence.

'But every man in His own order:
Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.'
(1 Corinthians 15:53)

Hello @Robert Gwin,

Thank you for responding.
* You mention the role that the 12 disciples will play in the plan and purpose of God. It is shown in the following verses:-

'And Jesus said unto them (the 12 disciples),
"Verily I say unto you,
.. That ye which have followed me,
.... in the regeneration (Acts of the Apostles 3:21; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:5)
...... when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory,
........ ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones,
.......... judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters,
.. or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for My Name's sake,
.... shall receive an hundredfold,
...... and shall inherit everlasting life. ... '''
(Mat 19:28-29)

* Except for the resurrection of certain believers at the death of the Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 27:52-53), there has been no recorded resurrection of the dead. They, I believe, were, like Lazarus, given life: natural life; but would like him also be still subject to death.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Curtis]

The Bible never states Jesus rose bodily, you did. In fact it states he was raised a spirit: (1 Peter 3:18) . . .He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.

Let me ask you Curt, if the sacrifice was taken back, on what basis can man be forgiven?

I quoted scriptures.

 

[charity]

The Bible never states Jesus rose bodily, you did. In fact it states he was raised a spirit: (1 Peter 3:18) . . .He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.

Let me ask you Curt, if the sacrifice was taken back, on what basis can man be forgiven?

'And when He had spoken these things,
.. while they beheld, He was taken up;
.... and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up,
.. behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
.... Which also said, "Ye men of Galilee,
...... why stand ye gazing up into heaven?
........ this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven,
.......... shall so come in like manner
............ as ye have seen Him go into heaven."'
(Act 1:9-11)

Hello @Robert Gwin,

Though addressed to @Curtis, I hope you will not mind my responding.

* The account above in, Acts 1, makes it clear that the Lord Jesus Christ rose bodily from the earth. Paul also tells us in Ephesians 4:10., that, 'He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that He might fill all things.'

* You refer to a verse in 1 Peter, 'For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: ... ' (1 Peter 3:18). This merely confirms that our Lord was put to death in the flesh, but that He was quickened (ie., brought to life) by the Spirit.

* No, our Lord was very much, 'flesh and bones,' and not 'a spirit', as our Lord Himself told His disciples in Luke 24:39:-

'Behold My hands and My feet,
that it is I Myself:
handle Me, and see;
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones,
as ye see me have.'

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Enoch111]

The Lord was talking to His disciples in John 14:1+, telling them that He was going to His Father's house, where there are many mansions, and that He is going to prepare a place for them. Then He would return and receive them unto Himself, that where He was, there they may be also.

You could have pointed out that John 14:1-3 is a key passage regarding the Rapture of the Church -- indeed the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. "I will come again and receive you unto myself" corresponds to 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 where it says that "the Lord HIMSELF shall descend from Heaven". Also the Rapture has always been imminent (unexpected and unannounced, which means that it could even be today). But it will only take place when "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Rom 11).